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Troisième et dernier personnage mystère, celui qui a pris les al-Hilli en photo, devant un mur fleuri de Chevaline, quelques minutes seulement avant le drame, avec l’appareil photo de la famille…..
…but which is only a story (and lets face it, a massive one) that has been picked up by LaDauphine.
Did Panorama, Non Elucide or Tom Parry pick up on photographer ?
They all seem to have researched the subject “on the ground” so to speak.
“The gypsies were demonstrating in order to force a judge to release from prison the 26-year-old son of a man shot and killed four days ago so that he could attend his father’s funeral.”
SO, some of these ROMA incidents in Northern FRANCE are linked.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2338983/Alps-murder-inquiry-turns-attentions-Romania-to-mystery-phone-calls-victims-brother.html
“Alps murder inquiry turns its attentions to ROMANIA
over mystery phone calls made by victim’s brother”
Quote The Daily Mail
“Police admitted they were powerless to confront the angry crowd of Romas and reopen the motorway with one Gendarme only able to tell a French reporter, It’s true. There is disorder.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3215111/British-tourists-returning-Calais-blocked-French-motorway-fires-started-chainsaw-wielding-Roma-Gypsies.html
Pathetic
@ James, yes TP said to me he knew about P. I think TP said something that EM knew where this photo was taken
(This by a short DM conversation over Twitter)
Saturday morning, the Amiens Court of Appeal had reversed the decision yesterday by the judge of all the sentences which had refused provisional release of detainee 26 who is serving a six and four years. “The Court finally authorized the release under escort from 8:00 a.m. to 6:30 p.m.” of imprisoned son and his cousin, imprisoned “for the same acts,” said the general secretary of general prosecutor, Rudolph Juy-Birmann.
http://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2015/08/29/l-a1-bloquee-par-des-gens-du-voyage-le-chaos-du-retour-des-vacanciers
seems like the Gipsy fraternity have the FRENCH Authorities on the back-foot.
FRANCE’s ROMA in road blockade to protest gipsy raids
More than 250 cars and caravans belonging to members of FRANCE’s Roma, or gispy, population on Sunday blocked a major highway outside the south-western city of Bordeaux in protest against the government’s raids on illegal Roma camps.
FRANCE has in recent weeks launched a major crackdown on the Roma,
closing unauthorised camps and expelling individuals.
Sunday’s blockade is the first major counter-protest by the groups, in which vehicles were used to block the Bordeaux bypass and a bridge, causing major disruption on a summer public holiday weekend.
Police said that earlier Sunday the Roma has been expelled from a camp in the town of Anglet, further south, and were prevented from moving on to an exhibition ground nearer Bordeaux.
A lawmaker from FRANCE’s ruling UMP party denounced Saturday the government’s raids on Roma camps as disgraceful, likening them to World War II round-ups.
Following the latest raid on Saturday in an eastern Paris suburb, Jean-Pierre Grand said the government’s policy of dismantling illegal Roma camps “is turning disgraceful”.
Police removed Saturday 70 Roma, including around 20 children, who had been occupying a building in Montreuil for two days.
Sixteen were arrested and then ordered to leave FRENCH territory.
http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20100815-frances-roma-road-blockade-protest-gipsy-raids
@ Max, James
I think that the confusion over SAH’s route has arisen because everybody assumed that LFR was working at the Bewick’s address (859 Route Forestière Domaniale de la Combe d’Iré, close to Chemin du Moulin). However, that is not in fact where LFR was working on that day. He was working at «le dernier chalet avant le début de la route forestière de Chevaline»
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2012/09/11/01016-20120911ARTFIG00408-tuerie-de-chevaline-deux-nouveaux-temoignages.php
Looking at the map, that dernier chalet is, ta-da, on Route du Moulin, at the junction where Route du Moulin joins the Route Forestière Domaniale de la Combe d’Iré. In Google Streetview photos dated August 2013, one can still see the rubble left behind by LFR’s jackhammer. Thus, there is no mystery at all about SAH’s route – he simply followed Route du Moulin out of town and uphill.
This is the spot
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.757493,6.2231477,3a,75y,116.49h,70.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2hH32bWz8FNcvgtAUhKmIQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Peter,
there are two distinct routes leading to that spot
but agreed, only one route up the combe, from that spot.
@James
“Troisième et dernier personnage mystère, celui qui a pris les al-Hilli en photo, devant un mur fleuri de Chevaline, quelques minutes seulement avant le drame, avec l’appareil photo de la famille…..”
… et pas d’empreintes sur l’appareil photo … le mysterieux photographe avait des gants … comme para exemple les cyclistes.
Just an idea
Peter
The spot you linked to in your comment #546602 above appears to be the old sawmill.
Still, to a UK estate agent it would indeed be a Chalet in a popular area (popular that is with le gendarmerie and TV crews) complete with its own urban art installation. Possibly in need of a light makeover.
http://lci.tf1.fr/jt-20h/videos/2012/tuerie-de-chevaline-la-scene-du-crime-passee-au-crible-7520892.html#sthash.Aj31i3iE.dpuf (video LFR)
James
Almost forgot to wrap up the ‘war story’.
The pimply faced youth doing the interview with the engineer, kicks off with a laboured lecture about ensuring that key personnel are not vulnerable to blackmail.
Eventually, the engineer twigs and points out that he has never done anything remotely interesting in his life and is thus not a target for such pressure.
Very awkward pause followed by “It’s not you Sir, it’s your wife. . .”
Turns out she was young and needed the money etc. cautions, convictions and press cuttings in the file.
Wipeout.
@ Max, 29 Aug, 2015 – 9:30 pm
That was the residence of the Bewicks, pre-renovation. Here it is after the renovation and with an RHD Beemer parked in front
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7611435,6.221124,3a,75y,113.69h,79.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIjNvAr-7O4a5Na-QlRk4bg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
However, it is not the last chalet before the beginning of the the Route Forestière Domaniale de la Combe d’Iré.
@ Good In Parts, 29 Aug, 2015 – 8:49 pm
Yes, I agree that this des res could do with a new owner’s loving touch. Actually, I think that LFR tore the entire place down and that the rubble shown on Google Streetview are its remnants.
But here is the earliest report of LFR
http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Faits-divers/Actualite/Chevaline-une-grande-traque-lancee-dans-toute-l-Europe-553178 (sidebar)
Derniers témoins
Eux, les enquêteurs ne les ont pas entendus. Pas encore. Et pourtant… Ils sont certainement les derniers à avoir vu la famille Al-Hilli vivante. Eux, ce sont deux ouvriers maçons. Le jour du drame, mercredi, ils travaillaient dans une maison proche de l’endroit où la BMW a été retrouvée. Le dernier chalet avant le lieu du crime, face à une ferme. Et ce chalet, incroyable hasard, appartiendrait à un Anglais, un ancien de la RAF. Comme le témoin clé, ce cycliste qui a découvert la BMW avec ses occupants morts.
Lorsqu’ils ont aperçu cette voiture immatriculée en Angleterre qui montait la côte, ces ouvriers, qui avaient pris du retard sur le chantier, ont pris peur : et si le propriétaire, leur client, débarquait? Ils ont vérifié, bien regardé la BMW. Ce n’était pas lui, alors ils ont repris leur travail. Peu de temps après, c’est la tuerie. Très vite, ils entendent parler d’un drame. Affolés, ils prennent peur, veulent éviter les questions. Ils préfèrent quitter le chantier. Et s’ils avaient, aussi, aperçu la voiture des tueurs? “No comment”, lâche l’un deux. R.B
@ Max
Note the timings: at the time that “your” video was broadcast (11 September 2012), LFR had not even started working on the Bewicks’ house, at least not in such a way that anyone would notice. He certainly was not at work with a jackhammer there. The very substantial work conducted upon it (knocking it down to its foundations, enlarging the ground floor by about 1/3, constructing a new wooden upper storey from scratch) must have started later, probably beginning in March 2013 or so.
No, unless proven wrong, I shall maintain that LFR was working at another place also owned by the Bewicks on 5 September 2012. I want to strip this case down to the bare essentials like a racing bicycle 😉
@ Max, 29 Aug, 2015 – 10:27 pm
It’s that same crap journalist who posited that SAH arrived at the Martinet at 14:45. In the sidebar, he is conflating Mr Bewick with Mr Martin. Perhaps he is some kind of French Michael Norton and all those bloody foreigners look the same to him, but Bewick was never in the RAF.
chaud …
https://youtu.be/D56Dia2U4YM
The photographer AND the Bewick house.
The photographer. Someone DID take that photograph afterall.
My first thought is/was, it was the family member not in the photo.
But was it ? How tall was she ?
Was this why the photo was never released ? The possibility/probability of a “photographer” who is someone other than granny ?
(but why isn’t granny in the photo ?)
The Bewick house.
The only “last chalet in Chevaline” is the Bewick house. The very last building is that “workshop type/disused farm thing”.
I would say LFR was working on that British owned chalet. What I would call, “the last chalet in Chevaline”.
Additional !
My other (more “off beat”) “1515 photo” idea.
The “FIB” photo never happened at all. It’s photo-shopped.
Additional/Additional !
A “mystery photographer” was at Arnand. He/she/they took a photo there.
He/she/they wouldn’t know about previous/subsequent photos, only the composition/location/time of the one that they took.
So, in some “weird and wonderful” game of subterfuge (possibly!), why would you (“the police”) want to place the Al Hilli family on the Route Du Moulin at 1515 ?
If LFR was working (or drinking tea) at the Bewick chalet and saw Al Hilli pass by “earlier”….then without the 1515 photo, you’d assume he’d driven directly to the Martinet ? And arrived “early” ?
But that would effect the statements of ONF1 (maybe?), the two ONF2 rangers, the media shy biker originally from Lyon AND our WBM (who actually only “believes it to be” Al Hilli that past him, heading up hill).
A “way out there” conclusion could be…
The Al Hilli family AND the “kindly photographer” are at the Martinet much earlier…but after ONF2 and MC(L) have left.
Then Mollier arrives. Everyone (almost everyone) is shot.
BIG PROBLEM.
The ONF2 rangers “see” Mollier…but not the Al Hilli family !
Nothing bloody fits !!!!! Arrggg !!!!
http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Faits-divers/Actualite/Le-scenario-minute-par-minute-de-la-tuerie-de-Chevaline-555890
“SURVEY – What happened between 2:40 p.m., when BMW of Al-Hilli through the village of Chevaline, and 15 h 48, the call to CODIS Annecy, Wednesday, September 5? The JDD found the witnesses of the massacre of the road
A beautiful day. Warm and sunny. This makes a good half hour on Wednesday afternoon that Lawrence *, 35, and his young apprentice took over the job after the snack break. And labor, there is to enlarge the tiny wooden chalet, especially as the shipyard has fallen far behind. The two men attack the low wall surrounding the property. Armed with a jackhammer, they overlap a bit on the floor not very wide at the exit of Chevaline when a BMW approaches. An English plaque. Provided that these are not the British owners, John and Vivienne Beweek, come see the progress of work worries !, Lawrence. No. It does not recognize the man driving. There is a little girl sitting in the front, next to him. And two adults in the rear. Two women, apparently. It is this 2:40 p.m. Wednesday, September 5th.
A week after the tragedy, Laurent, round face and blue eyes, is the passage of the Al-Hilli family “close to ten minutes.” The mason at bald head is against formal: “Apart from the break of the English, that is all that is mounted!” They have no more than 3 km of the small road to the parking Martinet, on the heights of Chevaline. It is about 14 h 45 when Saad Al-Hilli, accompanied by his wife, his elderly stepmother and her two daughters, her BMW station. He who kills is it already area? It’s likely ; if one believes the testimony of Mason Chevaline. Unless he borrowed a side street, from the neighboring town of Arnand, who joined the climb to the valley of Ire one hundred meters after the housing cottage ..
Its interesting that there were several reports of hearing shots now these could have been a jackhammer ,I know nada about guns and I could tell the difference between a shotgun and a jackhamer so I am sure locals who know guns would so it does make me wonder if there was some other shooting.
“If the builders of Chevaline swear to have heard nothing of shots – perhaps because of the jackhammer – Franck’s father, Melvin, has as his son was surprised by this series of explosions came from the mountain while he was busy trimming the hedge in a village in the corner, Marceau. “I told myself. ‘. It’s weird, hunting is still open Must be the guys currently testing their rifles before opening’, reported today the landscape It must have been after 15 hours, perhaps at the stroke of 15 am 30 … “What happened during those three quarters of an hour, between the English family and the killer?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK7qRuzBB3Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3UN929D_o0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm8AWy7DIhs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp0KXSjXGw0
On this pic with the red hi-lighted the stain in front of the tyre tracks seems to be like the one on the bonnet of the car.
As I am not sure of the process I can’t have an informed opinion but my take at the time was blood in front of car ,blood at drivers side window “sign end” and blood at passenger side window “final position .
A lot more seems to have happened at sign end .
With Peters idea of the river escape does the red hi-lighted behind the tape towards river count ?
Does the red on bonnet count ?
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=9ggfwz&s=6#.VeKVrCVViko
The FRENCH need to get a grip of their country, it is lawless, like the wild west.
http://www.euronews.com/2015/08/29/french-motorway-remains-closed-after-travellers-end-blockade/
So a ROMA person, shoots dead a woman, her baby and the child’s grandfather, then as the local police in ROYE rush in, they shoot two police officers, one of whom has since died, the police then “neutralize” the shootist.
Many taken to hospital by air ambulance.
Then 60 of these ROMA set light to the A1, which is adjacent, to shut the road at a busy tourist time of year to put pressure on the judiciary to release more ROMA from their organized car crime spell in prison, so they can attend a funeral, arriving out of the shooting in the ROMA camp, one of then initiated.
The local judge obliges but the road is damaged, so cannot be opened straight away.
So, isn’t setting light to a motorway illegal in FRANCE?
The Roma are the scum of the earth
Upon reflection, I must accept that LFR was indeed working on the house of the Bewick family. However, I am still certain that this journo got the time of the sighting wrong by one hour, i. e., that LFR did not see SAH at 14:40 but much later.
Having visited the Flat-Iron Building, SAH must have been on Route du Moulin, which is actually signposted in Arnand as leading to the Combe d’Ire. However, instead of continuing along Route du Moulin to the Combe d’Ire, SAH must have driven back to Arnand and taken the Chemin Rural de Chevaline à Armand before making another left turn and joining the Route de Chevaline. This slightly bizarre route will be why the locals would later describe him as having taken the wrong turn – he could simply have followed the Route du Moulin in order to end up where he later did end up.
This “wrong turn” is interesting because SAH initiated it after encountering the mysterious photographer at the Flat-Iron Building. Did he take it because the photographer told him something along the lines of: “No, Route du Moulin is closed further on. If you want to get to the Martinet, you will have to turn around and take Route de Chevaline instead”? It become even more interesting if we assume that there really was a BMW X5. How could the driver of the X5 have known where SAH was heading, and how could he have arrived there before SAH and without being seen by LFR?
If we hypothesise that the driver or passenger of the X5 and the mystery photographer are identical, there is a very simple, elegant solution to this entire riddle: SAH encounters X5 driver at the FIB, a popular spot with tourists. X5 driver appears to be another tourist, a fellow Brit. It would have been the most natural thing for SAH with his limited French to ask a fellow Brit to take a few snaps of his family. It would have been equally natural for X5 driver to ask SAH where he intended to go next – the Martinet. Unbeknownst to SAH, X5 driver is not simply another tourist, but an assassin who is after the AH family. That assassin now knows where SAH is heading, but he still faces a major problem: how to get to the Martinet without arousing SAH’s suspicions and without his distinctive RHD BMW being seen together with SAH’s RHD BMW. Easy: he tells SAH that Route du Moulin is closed, watches SAH turn around and head back towards Arnand, then gets into his X5 and drives straight towards the Martinet, along Route du Moulin. The major detour on which he has sent SAH means that he does not have to hurry. There is plenty of time for him to reach the vicinity of the Martinet, park the X5 somewhere out of sight and hide in the woods near the Martinet.
So, it is one of my theories that the “mother ” of Iqbal comes to ENGLAND from SWEDEN with her mentally unstable offspring and secures him in a private mental clinic.
Then Saad, Iqbal, “grandmother” and two girls head off to Haute-Savoie with their caravan, osstensibly on a very short planned holiday, they have made previous trips to this area.
They camp up in Saint Jorioz but a dark skinned man is seen in heated talk with Saad, so they move to another camping ground
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g1052751-d2616386-Reviews-Campsite_Le_Solitaire_du_Lac_d_Annecy-Saint_Jorioz_Haute_Savoie_Rhone_Alpes.html
only a short distance away, still in Saint Jorioz.
So, although there has been enough disquiet to get them to move camp ( a fair amount of trouble), they stay in the area because they have important business.
They are intending on accessing accounts in SWITZERLAND.
SWITZERLAND is likely the place that the old luger that was used to slaughter them was manufactured. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffenfabrik_Bern
They have an appointment in Arnand/Doussard/Chevaline
to pass over money to people smugglers, to bring out people from IRAQ.
It goes wrong, Sylvain Mollier is indeed collateral.
Nice going Peter!
I’ll add a variant which goes along those lines. Although I think the Family photo (taken by P) was in Doussard/15h08 this house http://patrimoine.rhonealpes.fr/img/1ef61a80-de35-4054-962b-54aa2cb3ae64
= = =
At 15h08 in Doussard, P/X taking a picture of SAH’s might have gotten the strong indication that SAH would go up the route du Moulin, and Combe d’Ire to arrive at Martinet
Either by P/X suggesting this to SAH or by overhearing SAH’s next route (rte du Moulin)
So, after the 15h08 picture, P/X speed in the X5 to Martinet … awaiting the arrival of SAH.
The thing is … did P/X know what to expect uphill??? … and I think the only good answer is YES. How else could P/X ‘predict’ SAH arriving at Martinet and at the same time thinking (at 15h08) that Martinet would be a good place for the ambush!?
P/X knew in advance that SAH would end up at Martinet (if SAH would drive over route du Moulin, and Combe d’Ire)
This means that P/X had prior knowledge of Martinet. P/X is local??
A better way for P/X is to simply suggest to SAH to go to Martinet (‘There is an interesting old ruin to see’ argument) … But also with this it implies P/X to be local. How else could P/X make this ‘suggestion’ … (unless P/X was some tourist who does know the region well, so SAH could accept the suggestion)
In all cases WBM still fits very well as P/X
The P/X person could be ENGLISH
maybe someone who was in the BRITISH armed services
but someone who has a holiday home in the vicinity?
One point, if the “mother ” of Iqbal comes to ENGLAND with her unbalanced son and puts him in a clinic,
this to me,
suggests she has no intention of returning to SWEDEN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortoise_and_the_Hare
Tortoise = Slow biker
Target/Hare = SM
Alibi = Slow biker could never be at Martinet 15h35 if he was in Doussard 15h10
– –
The plan
– WBM is in Doussard, awaiting SM passing by
– At that moment WBM needs to ‘fix’ his alibi
– At that moment (pure chance) SAH is at Doussard
– WBM asks ‘Shall I take a picture of the family?’ .. thereby fixing his abili!!!
– WBM’s alibi is now ‘I was in Doussard 15h08, ask that UK family!)
– In reality WBM jumps in to the X5, and hides!
– X5 races to Martinet and drops off WBM
– WBM awaits the arrival of SM
– By pure bad luck SAH also ends up at Marinet
– SM arrives
– Even with SAH present, WBM comes forward and kills SM (WBM surely is masked)
– WBM scares away SAH, but fails ??
– Or SAH already id’d WBM ??
– Anyway … in the end WBM HAS TO KILL SAH (as witnesses)
– WBM therefor effectively killed his own alibi!!!
That is why he can’t come forward anymore as P
The original plan of WBM must have been to ‘escape unseen’
WBM went up unseen (hidden in the X5)
And he wanted to leave unseen
But by creating the massacre he went (had to) head on, being X, but playing ‘the biker who arrived first at the scene’
… the problem was WBM’s phase 1
Phase 1 was getting to Martinet unseen
And sure enough … nobody ever saw WBM going up. Not ONF1, not ONF2, not Mr Lyon 🙂
It was WBM. He is still working for MI6 and as a double agent for MOSSAD
@ Max, 30 Aug, 2015 – 10:10 am
Yes, that could have been the place
http://patrimoine.rhonealpes.fr/dossier/usine-flaquet-dite-usine-fracquet-et-forge-mecanique-bertholiot-puis-scierie-bertholio-puis-societe-bois-sciages-et-caisses-de-grenoble-actuellement-maison-d-habitation/2efdc0dc-bed9-455b-a88b-98e1b59a6284
and it would fit nicely with the “martinet” theme. From there, the AHs drove to the FIB martinet, and from there to the Martinet parking lot.
You are right, P/X suggesting the Martinet as a must-see martinet is more plausible than SAH himself coming up with that idea. If P/X encountered the AHs at the building in Doussard that you mentioned, he might also have directed them to the FIB first in order to give himself more time to get up to the Martinet and prepare his ambush. The one drawback to this scenario (that I can see) is that it does not explain the strange detour that SAH made on his way from the FIB to the Martinet, turning back towards Arnand rather than simply following Route du Moulin.