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Caroline Blanvillain has said that Sylvain Mollier unexpectedly called his common-law-wife,
Claire Schutz at her place of work, Pharmacie Schutz-Morange, in Grignon, Albertville.
Claire then straight away left her business to drive to Ugine, to take charge of their new-born-son, thus releasing Sylvain to go out for his bicycle ride, which led him to the meet with the family al-Hilli at Le Martinet and their slaughter.
This would seem to be a “SPECIAL” outing
it was arranged at very short notice.
There is a good chance Claire knows much more about the clandestine world of
Sylvain Mollier
Putting 2 and 2 together I would say he was looking for his son and that’s why LR phoned him while he was out because the lad had gone walkabout ,could be wrong of course if it was the case the police obviously didn’t deem it important probably best not pursued kids have enough to deal with .
Pink,
that is an exceptionally valid reason why Sylvain Mollier should ring his common-law-wife Claire Schutz to leave her business in Grignon, to drive to Ugine so Sylvain could go out to find his son by his former wife.
However is does not eXplain why he rode his expensive velo flat out to LE Martinet, unless his son was kidnapped.
Surely if this were the case, the FRENCH police would have solved the case three years ago and as far as we know the son is fine?
MN thinking on my feet if laddie was out on a mountain bike then he would take faster bike to catch up possibly, there is no sign that laddie was there I have to say ,it could be possible that if there was some previous history of things in that area then it may be where he thought he was perhaps kids meet up there etc the thing is the police would be aware of anything like that could even be why they said SM was innocent.
With all the coming and going I have wondered if there was some dealing going could SM have been on a mission to put a stop to it kids do wind their parents up,its only idea it could be totally off track.
@ Max, 3 Sep, 2015 – 8:22 pm
Thanks for the info. Luckily, I have saved that documentary.
@ All
One curious thing about the three parties who converged at the Martinet is that, considering their movements through time and space, all three of them could have met shortly before, in or around Arnand. That encounter could have been less than friendly, for example with the fast X5 narrowly overtaking SAH, SAH and the X5 driver exchanging a few unpleasantries, and SM being a witness to the incident. Or the other way around, with X5 and SM having words and the AHs being witnesses to that confrontation.
The final encounter at the Martinet could have been pure chance, with the X5 driver spontaneously seizing the opportunity to settle the earlier “score” in this isolated spot. Along comes a witness / a group of witnesses who he knows could identify him because they witnessed the original confrontation that sparked his rage …
Peter I would have thought Z would remember the car though if it was something like that or even an argument .
No fingerprints. Most obvious reason is the gunmans are on record somewhere, for a crime, for his job.
The last comment from EM regarding Mr Lyon was he had taken a hang gliding lesson, very easily proved, don’t you think ?
What are the chances of some bloke with a gripe against SM, being so well versed in forensics, in gun handling in cold bloodedness, that he goes into overkill of a man two women and a child?
Whomever the target, tnis man was a hired hand.
Indeed, this job could not have been more ruthless had it been undertaken by
James Bond.
@ M., 4 Sep, 2015 – 12:00 pm
Where would you expect the police to have found the killer’s fingerprints? On the spent cartridge cases? Owing to the size of these casings, those would at best be partial prints, perhaps sufficient to exclude a specific suspect, but not something that one could search a fingerprint database with. Moreover, the P06 came with a loading tool for the magazines that obviated the need for the user to press down on the cartridges being loaded. Thus, personally, I am not sure whether the police really have no fingerprints (as in “no ridge marks at all”) or no complete, useable prints.
If the FRENCH have a fragment of the gun,
it must be highly likely that they have recovered the DNA of the shootist?
@ Pink, 4 Sep, 2015 – 11:58 am
I don’t have a source ready, but I recall reading that Zainab remembered not only “one bad man” but also a “4×4-type vehicle”. No further details or context were given regarding the latter, specifically not where she had seen it or whether she had seen it twice.
Anyway, I am still in two minds about that X5. The timeline that we have now arrived at indicates that it could have been there at the relevant time. But where did it come from and where did it go afterwards without ending up on CCTV footage somewhere? The police have tracked the BMW of the al-Hillis all the way from the UK on CCTV. How come they (appear to) have found neither hide nor hair of this mysterious X5 on CCTV? The only explanation I can think of is that this X5 must arrived in the general area of Chevaline, Doussard etc. long before the AHs and stayed in that same area long afterwards, probably hidden away in some garage or shed. Like the gun, that would point towards somebody with roots in the area.
I wonder if Zainab remembers if the one bad man she saw
was wearing a side opening motorcycle helmet?
How did Eric know (in later statements he said this) Al Hilli was not followed ?
The Citroen van ? Brett Martin ?.
But they would be “behind” Mollier.
So was Mollier followed ?
The term “ambush” brings with it alot of “problems”.
(ONF2 saw only Mollier…so he wasn’t followed either !).
Neither party was followed.
But neither party had “pre-knowledge” they would be at the car park.
I am very happy the ‘Arnand walk’ solution seems to have cleared up a lot of questions. I’m confident the ‘Arnand walk’ is near the truth. I can put a lot of scenario’s to the bin. Great.
But of course there has to be the next step.
I wandered around in street view. Imagining things. I came up with the LMC = X, SM = target scenario. Good scenario, but it gives no explanation for the X5.
The ‘Arnand walk’ does give credit to EM. He after all always has said things which, in the end, appeared to be the truth. E.g. I was going on about LFR 14h40 and the double visit … but in the end it simply was not true. (Of course I do ‘blame’ it on lack of info, so no problem for me)
Having said this, I can use the EM credits in a useful way by simply stating that EVERYTHING EM has put forward is the truth. This would mean that e.g. the X5 really exists!
So, what about ‘Arnand’ ?
It starts to grow on me. This place. And the more and more I look, and wander around in street view, the more it grows on me.
Last night I came up with a scenario (in my private lab). I called it plausible. I concluded
Timeline wise + P(hotographer) wise + Local wise + Luger wise … it makes a lot of sense. Except for the X5 of course
Today I had a new thought about the X5. And did a new street view walk in Arnand. I saw a thing which we have seen before long ago. And in the lab I called it.
Chilling!
So much comes together, and so much seems to fit like a glove. It is hard to believe the scenario is not true. That is why I give it a little bit extra time. It is in the lab. I hope a lab fellow will assist me soon. After that I will reveal the scenario (be it good, be it bullshit)
Just give me some time
If the family al-Hilli had arranged to meet Sylvain Mollier
at Le Martinet for an “eXchange” then both parties knew they were going to be there at that time.
However if neither party previously knew each other, this was arranged by third parties.
The kill comes from the side of the third parties.
It would not be beyond the wit of the FRENCH secret services to put an electronic tracking device on the al-Hilli vehicle
TCK after all waht called the ‘Yes, but …’ case
And as a Sudoku solver I knew deep down that this constant ‘But’ was because somewhere, womeone had introduced a false piece.
The problem is/was … who did this? What false piece?
And there were many many options to choose from.
But I think now I might have found the ONE piece of falsely inserted info. Which resolves everything.
Strangely enough TCK up to this moment has not been resolved … so I have my doubts. Is the piece I’m thinking of really really THE PIECE ???
If so, how could X get away with it ???
Yes, I do wonder about this
Wouldn’t it be of extreme elegance if I come up with X on the 3rd anniversary of TCK
But … I might be dreaming, as I have been doing for so long in countless other scenario’s 🙂
Peter
Several months ago I did a trawl through the france2 forums and noted a few factoids, one of which was that a RHD 4×4 (with two people in it) had been apparently captured by a traffic camera on a major route.
Another factoid was that the shooter was probably left handed.
The last factoid was that the shooter was wearing ‘something’ of note.
Now, these juicy fact nuggets seem like the pieces of trivia doled out by EM in his off the record chats with journalists, tasty but ultimately not satiating. So, they could be leaks from the investigation but they could just be the scribbling of a teenage poster.
My colloquial french is not good enough to assess the reliability of the posters in general or those posts in particular.
So the arson fires continue, MN.
I recall someone advising me on this forum that it was best to stop talking about errant youth in the area, but the errant youth in the area are always on my mind when it comes to the murders at Chevaline.
How about the errant youth of the Haute Savoie/Savoie?
More gardens excavated in a search for weapons, with an Annecy connection:
http://www.ledauphine.com/faits-divers/2015/08/31/un-gang-marseillais-allait-sevir-a-annecy
There does seem to be a lot of this going around. Gardens must be preferred over the warehouses, garages and storage lockers of criminals elsewhere in the world.
School’s back in.
http://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/alpes/isere/pres-de-1000-eleves-evacues-apres-une-explosion-dans-un-lycee-pont-de-beauvoisin-799643.html
Someone knows their chemical reactions.
Q
Pink and I have already discussed the rules.
@ Good In Parts, 4 Sep, 2015 – 4:13 pm
That factoid about the killer being left-handed, if true, could either have been gleaned from the location of Zainab’s head wounds (most likely) or from partial fingerprints discovered on the spent cartridge cases, as there are differences between the prints of right and left hands. Either way, *if* the killer was left-handed, the gendarmerie would almost certainly know about it.
Two people inside the car would be consistent with two sets of unaccounted-for DNA having been found at the scene, as confirmed in this recent article
http://www.tdg.ch/portraits/Eric-Maillaud-n-oubliera-jamais-Chevaline/story/27684898
Yet it would not fit so well with Zainab recalling only “one bad man” (although the person accompanying the bad man might have stayed inside the car).
However, I have trouble believing that latter factoid. How does one manage to be captured by one traffic camera on a major route, but not by a hundred others? There are so many CCTV cameras out there in densely-populated areas and along major traffic arteries, and if the gendarmes had this one sighting, they would be all over the neighbouring CCTV cameras. As I have said, the only plausible explanation that I can think of for that X5 not being captured on CCTV a zillion times in the aftermath of the murders is that it did not leave the (rural, relatively CCTV-free) area at all until several days later, i. e., outside the time window for which investigators analysed all regional CCTV footage. The obverse goes for its arrival in the area: for it to have arrived “unseen” by investigators, it must have arrived outside the analytical window of time, which presumably started with the arrival of the AHs. (Given that investigators initially favoured the hypothesis that the AHs had been physically stalked all the way from the UK, I would be prepared to wager that they never looked at CCTV footage from the days or weeks before the AHs commenced their journey. At least not initially, but if they left it too late, that footage would have been long since erased by then.)
Peter
What I posted could be worthless. I could have mistranslated the postings of a fruitcake!
In the early days, I remember it stated that there apparently were not many CCTV cameras in the area and that the nearest one was 19Km away.
Traffic cameras properly setup for traffic monitoring rather than ‘other purposes’ tend to look down a section of motorway from on-high and with deep focus pointed in the direction of traffic flow.
That way they can cover as long a section as possible and spot brake-light ‘waves’ as they propagate back up against the flow of traffic. Traffic management does not need to see inside the vehicle or be able to resolve the registration plate.
Obviously not all such cameras are set up correctly, so they may have found the one which ‘fortuitously’ showed the plates and vehicle interiors.
Anyway, it seems that the gendarmes must have eventually tracked down all the private security cameras they could from businesses and private residences as they don’t seem to be spouting the “19Km away” nonsense now.
Finally, yes, I am sure you would win your wager if you could find anyone foolish enough to take the bet.
the only plausible explanation that I can think of for that X5 not being captured on CCTV a zillion times in the aftermath of the murders is that it did not leave
the other plausible explanation that I can think of for that X5 not being captured on CCTV a zillion times in the aftermath of the murders is that it does not exist
Who called the X5?
ONF1
If the shootist is a left handed super efficient assassin, that must narrow the field, quite a bit.
Is it 10% of people are left handed?
HOWEVER, there can not be that many people in the Haute-Savoie/Savoie who are left handed and also that ruthless and efficient and shooting four people dead in two minutes and getting clean away ( for three years) with that heinous crime.
The X5 was first seen by ONF1
1. The next person to see it would be Mr Lyon at the Martinet.
2. Failing that (“I went to the hairpins before it arrived”)…
… it would be Mr Lyon and ONF2
3. Failing that (“we were both at the hairpins and didn’t see it”)….
….it would be ? “NO ONE, IT WENT ACROSS COUNTRY”
T’is a fabulous chain of events.
The Most Mysterious Mister Lyon actually provides a cracking alibi for ONF2 not crossing it’s path.
A. I was delayed stopping Mr Lyon.
B. We both didn’t see it, so it must have escaped across country.
But hey, in the very end Mr Lyon MC does exist
And I presume LMC did not see X5
We do know ONF1 said (or it was interpreted by BBC Panorama) that maybe X5 escaped over the mountains. Probably arguing that this was possible with an X5.
Ok, ok, but that is not all. Because ONF1 says it was ‘forcement anglais’ ! Because he only saw 1 driver (right side)
Now … if ONF1 = X he probably would try to steer EM & co away from him. And what better than to invent a unfindable ‘forcement anglais’ X5 which ‘could have esscaped over the mountains’
The UK X5 would, togehter with 3 UK victims, push the investigation to the UK. Which it did !!
ONF1 in the mean time ‘plays scared’ Even after 1 full year. While WBM happily cycles up again
But … not only that. What can you find 50 meters from ‘la petite maison joliment fleurie à Arnand’ well, that (see below) is what I called ‘chilling’. Sure we did know about this street view picture. From MZT times. But now to me, with the ‘Arnand walk’ in place. It clicks
https://deadzone61.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/arnandchilling.jpg
So this was what I was referring to. From the lab …
I was thinking how SAH got from the flower house to FIB, and I saw this alley, but in fact it is private. That alley is a shortcut to FIB!
Suppose SAH (by small mistake) took this alley to walk to FIB. Now maybe some Arnand people were pissed off. By that endless stream of tourists walking on their property. So one of these people takes an old Luger from the attick, follows SAH (by parallel road maybe) and simply sends them to hell. The fact that SAH’s were foreigners and Iraqi might have not helped at all. Maybe one of those Arnand people have a bad history with Islam or whatever.
Anyway, Timeline wise + P(hotographer) wise + Local wise + Luger wise … it makes a lot of sense.
Except for the X5 of course …
(later I added)
… but, who did state he had seen an X5, RHD, new, 1 driver ?
ONF1
And where does ONF1 live ?
Isn’t that in Arnand ?
He would say he had seen a X5, RHD, to steer away from himself
(finally I went to street view again, to look up the ONF cars in Arnand … to get shivers when I realized that spot was 50 meters from the flower house where mystery P(hotographer) took a picture of the SAH family)
So …. ONF1 is the guy ?
Max
No, but, yeah, but, no, but, yeah, but, no, but, yeah
Allegedly, ONF1 was seriously under suspicion from day zero. I seem to remember that this cloud of suspicion hanging over him, manifest by the obvious reluctance of les gendarmes to issue a public appeal for the X5, was the primary cause of his willingness to be interviewed by Panorama.
By now they must have some degree of confidence that he is not their man.
In all fairness, the whole Arnand connection looks so screamingly obvious that it almost looks like a set-up by radical tree-huggers.
But, No.
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