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Quite often they don’t get their man even with DNA
Mystery.
Eight years after the assassination of Christian Marshal, friend of Pierre Morange,
head of the municipal police Chambourcy (Yvelines) larded found 18 stab wounds in his home, the mystery remains.
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.europe1.fr/faits-divers/sept-ans-apres-l-assassinat-de-christian-marechal-reste-une-enigme-2116547&prev=search
identification of DNA remain the best hopes of the PJ of Versailles to bounce this investigation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_32wqdKhqSs
Published on 3 Apr 2015
Non élucidé – L’affaire Christian Maréchal
Mercredi 21 mars 2007, Christian Maréchal, chef de la police municipale de Chambourcy, est découvert gisant dans une mare de sang dans l’entrée de son pavillon. Il a reçu 18 coups de couteau. Qui pouvait en vouloir à ce père de famille respecté ? Sur la scène de crime, un étrange
@ Good In Parts, 7 Sep, 2015 – 5:13 pm
We are obviously thinking along very different lines, but so be it: “Let a hundred flowers blossom!”
AFAIK, there would have been no religious or traditional obstacle to her running her own household just as she pleased after the death of her husband (leaving aside the traditional assumption that her first priority would have been to find another husband asap). Her sons, even if they were board-certified accountants with genius IQs, would have had little or no say in how she disposed of her assets.
However, there is a “chain of command” on the paternal side. The same “guardians” or Wali who would have negotiated a marriage contract on her behalf (father, paternal grandfather, brothers, nominees of the paternal grandfather) might have resumed their respective roles as her guardians after her husband’s death. They certainly would have felt entitled to pocket her entire fortune if both, widow and former husband, were dead, and their one son was a lunatic and the other one an apostate.
In case its not obvious the reason I pointed out Xavier Dupont de Ligonnes is he matches some of Peters profile possibly living rough will have no family monitor and not be using mobile phones or trackable devices he also shoots people in the head.
They have tended to focus searches for him in woods and caves, his father was an engineer and he himself appears to have dealings in money transfers of some sort .
against :
His gun practice appears to be with a different sort of gun ,(he did practice with a silencer) ,just reading wiki he does not seem to have had much training I don’t know if would be enough to commit this crime .
Peter
Think Different, as a principle, may be the way to solve this.
The most obvious pistes have not led anywhere so, as far as probabilities are concerned, we are looking at outliers. The trouble is that by definition there are going to be a lot of them.
Having said that, three years into the investigation, there is a huge pile of well indexed evidence. Properly framed it should be possible for a decent analyst to falsify a hypothesis quite quickly with little additional investigative effort.
Your proposal has the merit of being checkable, break-ins at holiday homes should be recorded in the normal course of events.
I like your idea about the aquisition of the gun, as you say, it would explain no public appeal to gun collectors etc.
@Peter Interesting chat here
http://survivreauchaos.blogspot.fr/2014/01/une-arme-de-survivaliste-le-k31-de.html
There were signs of a bonfire where the al hilis car ended up and I vaguely remember some posts about shot cows around the time of the murder ,there was some speculation in the Baligant case that he may seen a poacher and he didn’t like that sort of thing and could have been confrontational ,would SM be of a similar mindset hunting had not started ?
If you were laying low in that area would you camp out or use a refuge I remember they checked the refuges.
If this Xavier Dupont de Ligonnes is on the run I suppose he would have practiced his escape techniques and he would need to get hold of more ammunition from unscrupulous dealers .
Just came across this report from late oct 2012
• 15h15 : Après avoir dépassé le village de Chevaline, William Brett Martin, un cycliste britannique, est rejoint et distancé par un autre cycliste français, Sylvain Mollier.
This is how it translates so is the translation correct and is SM behind ?
I am not happy about the change in the story I figure it must be something to do with timeline what difference can it make whether Sm overtook or was always in front otherwise, if SM overtook he caught up to BM if BM was always behind he would not catch up to SM unless SM stopped somewhere because SM would always be moving faster or one of them joined from a side road.
Am I right in that ?
3:15 p.m.: After passing the village of Chevaline, William Brett Martin, a British cyclist, and is joined behind by another French rider, Sylvain Mollier.
http://www.europe1.fr/faits-divers/le-scenario-de-la-tuerie-de-chevaline-1290283
@ Pink, 8 Sep, 2015 – 9:20 am
The kind of person who I have in mind preys on tourists rather than animals. Looking at the Martinet from that perspective, it is an ideal spot for breaking into parked cars, for example. Remember those shards of glass that journalists photographed there?
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00334/112702926_france_334050b.jpg
That is safety glass from a broken car window, but the gendarmerie definitely would not have left those shards lying there if they belonged to Saad’s BMW. Rather, I suppose that these shards belong to another car that had one of its windows smashed up there.
The Martinet would also make a decent place for an armed robbery – particularly if you knew beforehand that there was no cellular network coverage up there, meaning that your victims and/or any potential witnesses could not call 112. Cache your rucksack somewhere in the vicinity, hide near the Martinet, wait for some tourists to show up, don your balaclava, relieve them of their cash and valuables, take their car keys and all their mobile phones with you and flee back into the woods. Even if they were fit hiker types, they would not dare pursue you because you are armed. Rather, they would have no option but to walk towards Chevaline. By the time somebody managed to call the police on their behalf, you would be long gone, well on your way towards spending your victims’ cash and flogging their valuables in the nearest major town. Something along those lines might have sounded like a viable plan – until it went horribly wrong.
Peter yes I can see that it makes sense as a place to target people for a robbery .
I was thinking specifically about Xavier Dupont de Ligonnes rather than overall, he fits the profile of living rough ,no family monitor ,no phone etc, a need to practice evading capture Baligant and Chevaline have similar weapons if Baligant spotted some poaching that annoyed him ,I wondered if it might apply to SM ,this chap on the run will have to get food i.e poaching ,he will need ammunition ,we have a hookey gun dealer knocking around ED ,the searches for XDDL seem to be in the same type of terrain, there was a bonfire at the lay-by he looks like a promising suspect as he is clearly two tokens short of a toaster and not adverse to shooting people in the head .
Pink
I am not hugely worried about this one. Mostly because the scenario is not easy to describe concisely.
I think what happened is that WBM was on a straight bit of road inside the village of Chevaline, coming up to a ‘T’ junction, when he saw ahead of him the french cyclist ‘cross’ his visual field from left to right because he was cycling up the main road that forms the cross-bar on the ‘T’.
One point of interest for me is that WBM got a pretty good look at SM’s bike and clothes whilst SM may not have even noticed WBM.
So their paths ‘crossed’ (or rather converged). If you plotted on a graph the crow-flies distance to Le Martinet, then SM did also ‘crosse’ WBM at that point in the french sense of the word, because SM then became the the closest of the pair to the parking lot.
The net result on the timeline – not a lot.
GIP I am going to trust you on this one I have had it on my mind for a long time some things just won’t go away as niggles ,I especially don’t like Lt.col Vinnemann saying things that appear not to be true as I had him pinned as ok.
Did you follow my train above Interesting chat, August 19, 2015 3:29 p.m.
Peter, partial prints (ridge) can survive explosions, my observation is the (apparent) cleanliness of the spent cartridges. This also would cover the point of origin, not leading any investigation back to the seller.
It is too clean, everything is too clean to be some local with a gripe, what ‘bod’ locally would have an arm and ammunition ready to go ?
Even collectors risk DNA contamination, so I repeat TOO CLEAN.
Something that always troubled me was the supposed head shots, through an intact window, the first would be no problem, second, third and fourth, less so due to the damage to the glass. According to the British Coroners report Iqbal was not shot in the head.
Has anyone thought about making a list of the things known about the killer and then make a list of the unknown, the answer will be between the two lists.
The 4×4, whether RHD, X3/X5, was known about within hours of the murders, ONF1 gave his testimony early on, it was ONF2 that didn’t.
EM played the game of trying to trace the 4×4 and MC without alerting them, it didn’t work, he always said he didn’t want them to go into hiding.
Without further information, there really is nowhere else to go, everything being written here is just a rehash of forgotten, disproved and the updated.
Panorama showed SM/WBM in exactly the position GIP describes, WBM arriving at the junction in Chevaline and SM passing on the adjacent (main) road.
I assume it was with the help of WBM they were able to make this scenario appear on screen.
@ M It was reported not from an official source so someone “close to the investigation” that the shots were from as close as 3 feet or less is that true ?
@ M., 8 Sep, 2015 – 3:00 pm
Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else, but the “local with a gripe” was never high on my list of probable / plausible scenarios 😉
We, or at least I, do not know about how “clean” the killer really was. However, the pool of local people who could have pulled off something like this is tiny, and there would have been local tongues wagging about those few individuals, as there were with Menegaldo. To me, it seems almost inconceivable that a local killer would not have fallen under suspicion by now. Conversely, the notion of a hired gun committing a multiple murder in this manner, in a place like that, is almost farcical in my opinion.
Without further information, there really is nowhere else to go, everything being written here is just a rehash of forgotten, disproved and the updated.
I could not agree more. I must confess that I was very, very disappointed with the lack of media interest on the third anniversary of the murders. One can only hope that it is not indicative of how the inquiry team feel about the case, but I fear that they, too, will feel the same sense of fatigue and resignation. It may already be too late by now, but unless they take some fairly drastic measures (e. g., a mass DNA test, revealing a photofit of the “Suit Man”, searching the river for the gun that might have been discarded there etc.) fairly soon, then you can stick a fork into it, this case is done.
If William Brett Martin was cycling from his holiday home in Lathuile,
the first glimpse he was likely to have had of Sylvain Mollier
was at the junction of “Route du Moulin” (S.M. & al-Hilli way) with
“Chemin Rural dit de la Grande Combe” (W.B.M. way) as it converges into “Route Forestiere Domaniale de la Combe d’Ire”
Claire Schutz reaaly does need to be brought in for on oath questioning,
if they are to stand a chance of cracking this case.
Her brief Maitre Caroline Blanvillain has stated that Sylvain Mollier rang Claire Schutz at her place of work Pharmacie Schutz in Grignon, Albertville, on the day of The Slaughter of the Horses. Claire was told to come to Sylvain so he could pass the care of their infant to Claire, so Sylvain could go out for a bicycle ride.
Claire needs to be asked, under oath, why?
Michael, you don’t know the route taken by Mollier despite your insistance it must have been via Moulin, he could have turned right over the bridge and still encountered WBM (as in Panorama) at the junction of the Marceaus road and Chevaline.
I’m more inclined to accept this account as it would give Mollier the advantage of a straight run up the Combe d’Ire and he would easily have distanced himself from Martin.
Pink, the 3 feet thing, I don’t recall that comment, I do recall comments the killer was moving with the car and shooting plus the footprints around the car and the gunman moving from side to side.
According to TP, Suhaila was sitting behind Saad, I wonder if she was struck in the first volley of shots at the car ?
Peter, the man in Switzerland who was arrested, do you remember if it was ever said it was about Chevaline ? Or did someone jump to a conclusion ?
Local gun clubs and those who held gun licences were amongst the people spoken to. Part of Eric D.’s error was he didn’t declare or have licences for the weapons he had in his possession
GIP’s idea of thinking outside the box, if it was indeed mistaken identity, who would have been the target, the people in the mysterious RHD 4×4, WBM on his bike or Bossy and friends (white 4×4 with blacked out windows – Laurent Blanchard/M6 journalist on Facebook) ?
Most obvious would be the RHD 4×4, might explain why they haven’t presented themselves to the Gendarmes.
MN
Because he was an addict – that’s why.
Whether it is cycling or running (or other similar stuff) it is always about going through the pain barrier.
The natural opioids released by the brain are an order of magnitude stronger than plant based analogues.
If they don’t get their regular fix they get irritable and cranky.
Crap.
It must have been extremely unusual for Claire to be asked to absent herself at short notice from her business.
She was then, as far as we are aware the families only earner.
You cannot just bugger off on smeone elses stupid whim if you are running a small business, which you are hoping to build up for your future security.
This “outing” of Sylvain was short notice and it was special.
Pink
“Did you follow my train above Interesting chat, August 19, 2015 3:29 p.m.”
Er, I could only find one post on 19 Aug, 2015. One at 7:24 am by Michael Norton.
Is this some orwellian retcon?
GIP I shouldn’t laugh but it tickled me “Did you follow my train above ” as in train of thought the clue was “Interesting chat”
sorry if you went off on a wild goose chase and found MN try again.
Pink
8 Sep, 2015 – 9:00 am
I know I am hopeless at this blogging lark you are all very patient
I was trying to not have bells and whistles attached 🙂
@M
“The prosecutor also refused repeatedly to discuss the specifics, but The Sunday Telegraph has learnt that the lethal shots were fired at close range – probably less than three feet away.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9545251/Gun-in-Annecy-killing-may-be-connected-to-the-region.html
@ M., 8 Sep, 2015 – 7:12 pm
The arrest in Geneva was definitely about the gun used at the Martinet. To give but one source:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/french-alps-shooting-victim-saad-1987155
In purely logical terms, there are two options regarding why this man would be released without charge: either they wrongly attributed the gun to him, or he did not supply it (i. e., it was stolen from him).
Given that the gendarmerie have never made a public appeal to help trace the gun afterwards, I would assume that it was indeed his gun (perhaps marked with UV ink on the inside of the grip plates or something like that), but that he did not wittingly “supply” it to the killer.
Good In Parts,
sorry for snapping last evening.
I am sure you are correct about
adrenaline junkies.
However this “short notice special outing” in my guess does not fit this instance.
Maitre Caroline Blanvillian did not say the reason why Sylvain Mollier had to go out was because he was an adrenaline junkie.
No small business, with the business owner mostly in person working in the premises,
being hands on, could thrive with the owner’s spouse demanding at a moments notice that the business owner abandons their business to drive to take over child duties, while the unworking
( three years off for child care)partner goes out for an unscheduled jolly.
This was a very special last minute outing.
Claire must be brought in for an on oath hearing
to specifically tell what she knows about this special unscheduled outing.
Thanks Pink
“The ammunition, which is 21 mm long, is now rare and is used with very few other weapons. The bullets for the Luger P08 are also all marked with their date of manufacture.”
I expect I’ve missed it
but has it ever been said what date the ammunition was manufactured?
GQ is getting on the case. Let us see if the word “solving” in the title is to be taken seriously 😉
http://www.gq.com/story/alps-murder-chevaline-solving-crime
Hilarious!
“a tiny community called Chevaline, at the far edge of which the pavement slips into the trees. The path rising out of Chevaline is steep and pocked and hyphenated by tight bridges crossing a noisy froth of water.”
At first I thought that ‘Sean Flynn’ was affecting a Joycean writing style – badly.
But this is so truely dire, no Irishman could have written it, even as parody. It reads like mashup of continental press articles put through automated translation by a bot.
Thanks Peter,
‘Police will not reveal why they swooped yesterday, but the arrest comes just weeks after French prosecutor Eric Maillaud said he wanted to trace repeated calls Zaid al-Hilli made to five numbers in Romania shortly before the murders.
In March a man was arrested in Geneva, Switzerland, on suspicion of supplying the Luger P08 gun used in the killings.
He was later released without charge.’
On the basis that the article refers to a P08 and the Romanian phone calls, I’ll put it down as a nothing to see here, especially as Tom Parry isn’t known for accuracy as everyone who has read the book notes.
Interesting that they did go to Switzerland in the March 2013 to see a dealer, this article should at least have had the correct P06 element as it was June 2013, hey ho.
MN, where did you read:
‘This “outing” of Sylvain was short notice and it was special’
Another made up FACT, listen to the Caroline Blanvillain interview, it implies the arrangements were made earlier in the day, Claire had an Assistant Pharmacist, just as she had been when her Dad was the Senior Pharmacist.
Sylvain cycled often as stated by his elderly neighbour, it was his passion, his hobby, his sport.
GQ !!! Still hasn’t bothered to read up on the reports from the British Coroners report, Iqbal was not shot in the head, just lazy writing.
ONF1 didn’t do it, Claire has nothing to do with it, nor Lyon man, nor Martin.
I’d bet on the 4×4 occupants/suitman/photographer being implicated. I’d go along with the Criminologist in TP’s book, Saad was lured to Le Martinet.
@M
whether or not it was a special one off short notice outing
or a regular occurrence, unless Claire Schutz is brought in and heard under oath,
it will not be possible to say.
Does anybody know, has Claire Schutz ever been brouht in and heard under oath?