The previous thread was overloading WordPress due to the number of comments. This thread has been opened to replace it.
Allowed HTML - you can use:
<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
@ M., 9 Sep, 2015 – 4:38 pm
Going back to the original sources, it seems that the man from Geneva did not have his pistol stolen after all. At least that is how I would interpret the statement that he had been arrested upon the basis of “erroneous information”. I wonder what originally led them to this guy – probably the perennial classic, a disgruntled ex-wife penning an anonymous letter.
http://www.lematin.ch/faits-divers/soupconne-fourni-larme-tuerie/story/28799933
L’individu a été soupçonné par la justice genevoise d’avoir fourni l’arme ayant servi à tuer Saad Al-Hilli, ingénieur en aéronautique britannique d’origine irakienne, sa femme, sa belle-mère ainsi qu’un cycliste français le 5 septembre 2012 dans une forêt à proximité d’Annecy. Selon nos informations, l’homme a été incarcéré et entendu à plusieurs reprises. (…) Le procureur d’Annecy Eric Maillaud confirme que cette personne a été lavée de tout soupçon.
http://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/rhone-alpes/2013/03/25/tuerie-de-chevaline-un-suisse-arrete-puis-libere-222435.html
(…) l’arrestation à Genève d’un homme de nationalité suisse dans le cadre de l’enquête sur la tuerie de Chevaline. Il serait resté en prison plusieurs semaines puis relâché faute d’éléments probants sur son implication dans cette affaire. Il était soupçonné d’avoir fourni l’arme qui a servi au tireur pour éliminer Saad Al-Hilli et toute sa famille ainsi qu’un témoin fortuit du drame. Etendu à plusieurs reprises sur la possession d’un “Luger”, une arme du même type que celle utilisée par le tueur, cet homme a été disculpé, aucune charge n’ayant pu être retenue contre lui. L’enquête a été menée par les autorités suisses sur la base d’informations qui se sont révélées erronées.
Perhaps Sylvain Mollier was the al-Hill’s photographer
at the Flat Iron Building?
Sylvain Mollier’s route would have taken him past the Flat Iron Building.
moments later, they were dead.
Would the photographers DNA be on the camera?
MN, not if Mollier took a right over the wide, flowery bridge, from Arnand to Chevaline.
‘Moments’ ?
Thanks Peter, so there really is nothing to see regarding the Swiss man, suspected of supplying the weapon after erroneous information, poor chap.
Do you recall our discussion about the footprints ? Well, I’m going to stick my neck out, the enquiry thought the MC/P-R did it, from the description given by EM and the snippets from Eric D. he was said to be carrying a bit of weight, so I would guess the gunman, by his footprints/shoes showed someone carrying a bit of weight too. Not a tiny fairy footed gent.
I wonder what the footprints/shoeprints/bootprints looked like, size and make, if the MC was suspected to be the gunman, I’m guessing bootprints, thick and wide soles.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3227903/A-fortress-wheels-Range-Rover-debuts-luxury-car-withstand-volley-bullets-grenades-bomb-blasts.html
Might be a better option than a BMW
I am aware most people do not like the idea that Sylvain Mollier and the al-Hilli family had an arranged meet
but can we just run with that for a while.
@ M., 9 Sep, 2015 – 9:17 pm
If we assume that the motorcyclist wore his motorcycle boots for paragliding as well, they would not have been racing boots with smooth, hard soles. Enduro-type boots have the same pattern as hiking boots.
In any event, the footprints would have given the gendarmerie something to chew on. A motorcycle’s foot pegs and, for the right foot, the brake pedal leave very distinctive wear marks on soles. Unless the killer’s footprints also exhibited those wear marks, the forensic technicians would or should have begun scratching their heads, wondering whether the motorcyclist really could be the killer. Another thing that would or should have puzzled them is where a killer on a motorcycle would have parked his bike before hiding in the woods. One can only park a big, heavy motorcycle on a firm surface, because otherwise the kickstand will sink into the ground and the bike might topple. Even so, unless the bike is parked on tarmac or concrete, the stand will leave a depression (or two depressions, depending upon the type) in the ground. The space where a bike is parked must also be quite level, but apart from the Martinet (where the stand would have left traces) and the road itself (where the bike would have stood out like a sore thumb), there are not many suitable places around.
If the meet was between a member of the al-Hilli party and William Brett Martin,
as they both have houses in the South East of England, it would have been easier for them to trade in South East England, unless they were under Surveillance?
It would have been a little more difficult should the meet have been between “the mother” of Mrs. al-Hilli and W.B.M.,
as we have been told she normally lived in Sweden and did not often visit England.
However unless under surveillance, most likely the meet would have been in England.
Who lives within cycling distance of Le Martinet?
William Brett Martin ( when in Haute-Savoie)
Sylvain Mollier ( Grignon-Ugine)
So unlikely the meet was just between Sylvain Mollier and William Brett Martin,
however the meet could have involved William Brett Martin, Sylvain Mollier and some members of the al-Hilli party
Who no longer has full time regular employment:
Sylvain Mollier
William Brett Martin
Iqbal
Suhaila
Saad
So not too difficult to arrange in time but what about space?
I can’t see Sylvain Mollier easily getting away for a trip to England.
So the king pin in this meeting is likely to be Sylvain Mollier
or Slvain Mollier is the pin who can fit in, in time
but the place has to be Haute-Savoie / Savoie
Cyling
all three of the men are into cycling.
The linking person,
would seem to be William Brett Martin.
He does not (apparently) have regular employment,
he has homes in South East England and Haute-Savoie.
He could quite easily have known/have met Saad al-Hilli in South East England.
He could have quite easily have known Sylvain Mollier in Haute-Savoie,
Savoie.
I think the trade / trader was expected to be Suhaila
Why no picture of GRANDMOTHER,
what no picture in all her seventy years?
Why do the children not know who she is?
As far as we know she was not at the wedding of Iqbal and Saad?
Did she ever previously stay with them in Claygate?
I think there was a pre-meeting on Route du Moulin near the Flat Iron Building,
this could have included the al-Hilli party, William Brett Martin and Sylvain Mollier.
Perhaps, there was a more dangerous fourth party.
There are as far as we are aware no published photographs of Suhalia.
We have (sometimes) thought as Suhalia was not in any photograph that she was the photographer at the Flat Iron Building but perhaps the photographer was William Brett Martin, Suhalia the trade or trader stayed out of view, covered up in the BMW.
After the al-Hilli party are re-assured by either or both Sylvain Mollier / William Brett Martin, they continue up to Le Martinet.
The fourth party kicks up rough.
Only W.B.M. gets away?
It is very important that Eric Maillaud or the Lieutenant colonel
formally bring in Claire Schutz to put her under oath
and make copmletly certain
they fully grasp the reason for Sylvain Mollier having to recall Claire from her business that day so he could go out.
Was this a special event?
M. & Peter
Re your discussion on the ‘hefty’ biker, boots and bike-stands.
This is potentially an area that could be resolved by the laser scanning data.
It is quite possible that a rider could leave a bike-stand impression in the tarmac of the road that would not be visible to the naked eye but would be within the resolution of the laser scanner.
It could also be a way to confirm LMC’s reported movements.
They still have not solved this one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229434/More-100-officers-Paris-police-headquarters-DNA-tests-Canadian-tourist-raped-building-following-booze-fuelled-party-Irish-pub.html
More than 100 officers at Paris police headquarters to have DNA tests after a Canadian tourist was raped in the police building following booze-fuelled party at an Irish pub
Last year a police sergeant from the anti-drugs unit was placed under investigation on suspicion of stealing 52kg worth of cocaine worth £2m from a secure room where the drugs had been placed after they were seized in a raid.
How did they get 30 minutes after the murder in this article ?
The sinister motorcyclist
Officers want to trace the rider of a black motorbike spotted in the area 30 minutes after the murders.
He has aroused suspicion because he was stopped by two Forestry Office officials who ordered him to leave after observing him riding on a track forbidden to motor vehicles.
The rider is now the subject of a line of inquiry that has never been disclosed: that he might have been involved in a road rage incident with Mr Mollier.
A criminal psychologist drafted in by police believes this scenario was more likely to have involved Mr Mollier because Mr Al-Hilli didn’t speak French, making it difficult for an argument to escalate.
Officers are now checking if there have been ‘road rage’ attacks elsewhere in France with any similarities to the Annecy killings.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225436/The-man-whos-key-Alps-massacre-Mail-investigation-uncovers-vital-new-evidence-execution-British-family-thats-baffling-police.html#comments
If the shootist fired 25 times ( there abouts) and utilized four magazines, would he have dropped one or more empty magazines, which he did not later pick up?
Pink
The ‘30 minutes after‘ may refer to the apparent sighting of a motorcycle by a farmer up on the Col de Cherel.
The farmer described the MC patiently waiting for his cows to cross the road.
That, as far as I am aware, is the only witness sighting of a motorcycle in the area after the murders, that has been explicitly reported in the media.
Obviously there may be sightings that have not been revealed.
Or it may simply be a mistake.
GQ have the second part of their story up:-
http://www.gq.com/story/alps-murder-chevaline-iraqi-connection
But it is a sunny evening, so it will have to wait, I am off out!
GIP mistake seems most likely it should have read 30 minutes before
not after, considering they were supposed to have cribbed from the Times I wonder what the Times story said .
I have picked up something new (to me ) today reading archives when SAH went to Baghdad in 2003 to reclaim property Ikbal went with him
according to Hussein Al-Hilli.
If someone lived in the constituancy in which the al-Hilli’s lived
they could write to their M.P.
as Disgusted of Claygate
and demand that their M.P. stand up in Parliament and ask what on earth is happening with the al-Hilli massacre enquirey?
Pink, can you expand ? They met after his mothers death in April 2003, ‘married’ in August 2003.
Other reports say he went their with his mother, Zaid said this as well.
It was a translation by a lady called Zainab on MZT of an article by Hussein Al-Hilli in Arabic .
Oui / Marilyn & all…
Here is my translation for the article… Hope it helps.
Zainab
—————————————————————–
The conventional question of an unconventional crime “Who killed Saad Al-Hilli the British/Iraqi engineer and his family”
Some many articles and analysis have been written and we know the details of this crime but the killer (s) remain a mystery.
What made this case even more mysterious is the silence of the French police. Questions like: have they asked the only witness “Zainab” who was left near the car to face death,have they asked her about the murder(s). Did they ask her if she saw faces or were they wearing masks? The French police have not given us any of the details. Yet they have tried to stray us by giving many contradicting stories such as the feud between the Al-hilli brothers or a false connection between Saad and the previous Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and his fortune.
All what was given was not facts and it is not the truth. Especially that the writer of this article had strong ties with Saad and this strong relationship continued until few months before Saad was killed.
He then gives details about Saad’s family and their history in Iraq which I found irrelevant.
He talks about how he met Saad and his wife Ikbal in 2003 in Baghdad as Saad was there to follow up on a house his dad owned in Baghdad. He said that Saad struggled to prove ownership of the house and he even had a fist fight with the people who live din that house but he finally managed to get it back. He also describes Saad as a very opinionated person who does not fear speaking his mind and who has a very strong will ( I think this is a nice way of saying stubborn a quality/vice most Iraqis are blessed with) He states that Saad has told him that the US has occupied Iraq and it is not liberation and that he supports Palestinians whom the US is against. The author says he was shocked as Saad has left Iraq as a young boy (7 tears old) but he still had typical /strong views about the US/ Israel. He says ” I even advised him not to speak his mind so openly in the UK, but he neglected my advice”
He also states that inspire of having different points of views our relation continued to grow.
He then talks about his visit to the UK as a CNN reporter where he meet Saad’s father Kathem who is a close relative whom he remembers from his early childhood. The author states that he has meet the family twice and one of these meetings was at Saad’s house inSurrey in the presence of Saad, Ikbal, Kathem and Zaid(Saad’s brother) he says Saad’s opinions about the West(US/ Israel) has not changed and that he also expressed strong opposing opinions to the Iraqi government at the time. He states that he did not meet Saad after that but they continued staying in touch through emails/ Yahoo messenger and Face book and that the last time he spoke to Saad was one month before his death on FB.
He says that he has never asked Saad about what he does for a living ; and that Saad has met his family in Jordan in 2006 but he was not present.
The author states that their communication continues , not only his but their fathers as weel until Saad’s dad passed away in 2011 in Spain.
He said the last time he spoke to Saad was in Feb. 2012 and he did not hear about him until he heard about the sad/ shocking accident in Annecy.
He says the first thing that came to my mind why was Saad killed in a way that seems like a professional hit? then the second question that came to my mind was “what was Saad doing in London all these years” What was his job?
I knew Saad’s views.. I knew he hated Israel, he was very sympathetic with the Palestinians and that he does not see Iran as a threat. I knew he had these opinions but people do not get assassinated in the west because of their opinions or beliefs UNLESS they translate these words/ideas into acts. Has Saad done that? then what was Saad’s job I read that he was an engineer at Surrey Satellites and that he company has kept silent about the type of work that Saad had. He states that it is also very weird that the Iraqi media announces the same day that Saad was killed that Iraq will produce satellite with pure Iraqi minds and hands.
He then gives detail accounts of assassination of Iraqi brains and links it to intelligence/special operations in different countries including the Mosaad.
He then states the question” Did Saad feel he was in danger?” he mentions that Saad has told he that he was not happy living in the UK and that he wanted to move back to iraq but that his daughters were too young.
The author also mentions that Saad has told him that THEY plan on making big changes in the middle east and that his Skype ID was stolen.
He mentions part of the conversations they have had.
The author states that even if the French found out who were the killers that they would not announce it as it may mean that it is an organized crime inside France and this is something that endangers national security. We will definitely hear a lot about family feud, relation with Saddam and his fortune bu(he states( in my pinion) we will never hear neither from the French nor the English ,in the near future, about who killed Saad and his family and why.
Maybe private media/ forums / investigators will be the first to answer the question: WHO KILLED SAAD ALHILLI.
Hussein Al-Hilli ( Iraqi author/ writer/ journalist ) relative of the victim / living in Canada
– See more at: http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/the-chevaline-shootings-saad-al-hilli-sylvain-mollier-brett-martin-philippe-didierjean-and-xavier-baligant/#sthash.SOpwrRvI.EUFu9B0k.dpuf
What are the British police adding to the investigation?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/9762604/Alps-murder-Truth-about-Saad-al-Hillisfamily-feud.html
Similar story but different man ?
“so after Saddam’s fall in 2003, Saad came back to reclaim it,” recalled Hussain, who said it was the first time his cousin had returned to Iraq.
“But he went to the house alone, and there was a dispute with the people living there. A woman answered the door and started shouting at him, and then two men started kicking him and punching him. Saad came home bleeding from the head. When I saw him I told him: ‘Are you crazy? You should never have gone there alone, you could have got killed.’
“But Saad was a quite a confrontational guy, and he liked to fight for his rights. Later he told me that he had got the house back. When I asked him how, he just said: ‘I used some connections.'”
and from the Sunday Times of 20th October 2013, day before Panorama aired:
“Zaid has never been back to Iraq, but Saad returned twice with their mother, Fasiha, and was assaulted while he was attempting to remove squatters from their former home. “The wife of the man who was living there, she hit him hard on the head. We never really discussed it because he was hurt by it.”
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2012/12/24/11346/542
Saad Returns to Iraq
In March of 2003 the United States launched the U.S. backing Western air and ground offensive on Iraq to topple President Saddam Hussein has been the occupation of Iraq and the inauguration of the Council of the rule temporarily to prepare for free elections in that year, at the end returned Saad al-Hilli to Iraq for the first time since he left 33 years ago where I met him I also return to Iraq since he left at the end to Canada in 1991 in the house of my father and his wife Mrs. Iqbal Saffar accompanied by, and we have had a family talk and the general through which you can استشف orientations Saad intellectual and political.
It is a muddle but the suggestion is he (Saad) returned at the end of 2003 with Mrs Iqbal Al-Saffar (his wife) and they all met at the writers fathers house.
More from OUI…
Miley text Alhawwaralve was between him and me on Facebook:
12:27 Saad al-Hilli peace Hussein How are you? Where are you these days? I am still in Canada?
September 17, 2011
7:52 Hussein al-Hilli Hello Dear Saad .. Happy to hear from you .. I’m in Baghdad .. The past year has promised to follow up the financial things my wife here
.. We bought an apartment in Amman Iraq is not the right place to live ..
I mean for humans!
How’s Aziz Zaid and family? When come to Baghdad? Notify me so .. With appreciation.
February 21, 2012
1:21 fairway Saad Hussein peace al-Hilli .. So you left the final!!
Certainly not ..
Yes I heard that Iraq is not appropriate for any one of the thugs. I’m planning to come, but I’m not sure when. When I decide I’ll tell you. I no longer use MSN since he took over my account one the idiots from Jordan and create many problems for me last year. Family okay but مازالو sad for the departure of the father on last August 11 .. Where his death was due to a clot raided weeks before that date I sent an email to Persia I know this, but I have not received something from him. I can see you are living in Amman and I personally hate it and I do not want to return to it .. After all Take care of yourself and Say hello to Persia.
11:16 Hussein al-Hilli Yes messages it is possible to come up automatically since Fares agreed to send them to you tell him is in Amman with his family ..
The situation is better than before in Baghdad for Lamn but chaos everywhere
11:25 Saad al-Hilli It is bad everywhere, wherever you go these days
So Amehtml we’ll stay in a place we know
I hope to go back to Iraq, but pentane possible that Aacla alive
11:27 Hussein al-Hilli do not do not do it and bring girls as start counting alone, because there was something waiting for completion and termination as I did
11:25 Saad al-Hilli .. I meant Aalmjie to live .. the fact I’ve Tguet tired of living in the West, but where the other place to go to him
They have agendas to tear each country in the Middle East
11:27 Hussein al-Hilli Well ..
I do not recommend to come and live in Iraq or any other Republican country in the Middle East!
I bought an apartment in Amman and will move there to live ..
Oman will be somewhat a good place for stability and comfort, a place to meet old friends
11:28 Saad al-Hilli in Jordan Knight permission. Do you have a Skype account?
11:30 Hussein al-Hilli Yes Fares in Oman and has a Skype account, and I also Tstata Aejada:
Smillingface1
11:33 Saad al-Hilli Is this your name on Skype?
11:34 Hussein yes and al-Hilli can below Aejada Email:
[email protected]
11:35 Saad al-Hilli Now I have to remember my PIN number on skype .. ha ha .. I did not even had a chance these days to use a computer.
. Much time should be given to work and girls and so on ..
I will try to open the Skype from work tomorrow.
. Think I put a list of numbers confidentiality Mqkurti in action
11:37 Hussein al-Hilli Well do what you see fit and me Sazivk to my list
11:37 Saad al-Hilli ÇäÔÇááĺ soon
11:37 Hussein al-Hilli Aoki
@ M
“Similar story but different man ?”
No idea there is another one listed in London on Linkedin I really haven’t followed very closely how the relatives connect just seen odds and ends others have put up try a search of archives .