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J
“A jump further. Lets say SM actually said “I’m going to xxxxx” (not “the combe D’Ire). And yet he ended up there (by changing his route)
Again, “papa bear’s” comments are out of context. Why mention them ?”
Little white lies are just social lubricant people use to ease their way through life, just like wine really.
So SM patiently nods and smiles whilst daddy-in-law pontificates then the next day rings his missus and asks for the afternoon off for cycling, ‘to try that route your wonderful old-man recommended last night, it sounds so good…’
GIP…
But “papa” put it out there !
Could be “Mollier was going to do his own thing anyway”… but Eric didn’t say that, That’s the kicker.
It’s “not was it was”, it’s “how it is sold”.
I say… Mollier was going there anyway.
His route was known (albeit intentionally).
He was the target.
For some reason….the investigation cleared this ?????
Target… Mollier
Reason….family
Cover up…. uncle
@ James
1st November 9.57 pm
If Sylvain Mollier was always intending to go up the Come of Ire and he discussed this with his father-in-common-law,
it could be that “Papa Schutz” was “in the know” and without saying what he knew
tried to direct Sylvain away from Le Martinet, that ride,
as he did not want the father of his grandson getting blown away?
The Schutz family have been receiving advice from controversial politician Pierre Morange
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248973/French-Alps-shooting-Cyclist-murdered-massacre-involved-bitter-dispute-million-pound-inheritance.html
I strongly suspect that Pierre Morange knows LOTS – has he been given the third degree
by the authorities investigating the Slaughter of the Horses?
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Morange
the maternal uncle of Claire Schutz and brother-in-law of Thierry Schutz
I think it is rather important we learn,
who had apartments above The Pharmacie Schutz-Morange in Grignon, adjacent to
the Sapeurs-Pompiers CPI Grand Arc.
J
“For some reason….the investigation cleared this ?????”
Derp… the obvious reason, lull them….
The french are not completely stupid. The family make some “unusual” statements then close down completely when the politico uncle takes control (and presumably starts pulling strings behind the scenes).
It was certainly implied that the investigators immediately started tapping every phone associated with the family that they could get a warrant for.
For the taps to be any use they would have to relax, thinking that their story had been swallowed.
‘Lull them to gull them’ as the saying goes.
There is no downside, the gendarmerie end up either being owed a favor by a UMP politico or they end up owning him.
The starting point of the Schutz family ‘he hadn’t been there before’ is the bizarre announcement of death (TP’s book recounts it), wiped from the web press then appearing in a post on Velo 101.
Instead of implicating the family it clears them, they thought he’d never been there before, Uncle Fernand tells them he had, so they withdraw the comment.
As far as we know there was no phone call to get Claire home, the implication from Maitre Blainvillain is it was arranged earlier, logical, afterall she wasn’t some bint operating a till in the local Supermarché !
Pink, two different farmers.
Ducher opposite the BEWICKS chalet, last property on the road before the derelict sawmill, inverted fork in the road.
The other, just around the corner from Sylvie, on the main road, interviewed the next day (same interview as Lise Ducher mentioning the third cyclist) he was delayed and should have brought his cattle down from the high pastures of the Col, afterall, as he says he would have been in amongst the murders had he done so.
Okay, a few minutes of fame or a fact, who cares, the point is whomever did this wasn’t so aware of the workings of the Combe d’Ire.
I rest my case.
In a previous post on 1st Nov, I pointed out that the witness statements made by the newly found LMC may not solve the cannonical ‘reversed order’ sighting by WBM.
If they do not and the statement by WBM is taken as true and accurate, then the only way* to resolve the issue is to re-arrange the timeline.
(*) the only way, short of invoking EM’s martian piste.
The re-arrangement is tedious but the outcome is interesting:-
The ONF1 driver is the patsy.
The ONF2 crew better have the most convincing explanation ever of how they got down the combe without being seen by WBM not to mention why they had not given it before. Because in the re-arranged timeline they definitely were not seen but they should have been.
If they are persuasive, then one of the apparent LMC sightings by WBM, ONF1 or ONF2 was not actually LMC…
It does seem to me that we should by now hear about LYONMAN’s 5%
If he was cleared of any involvement up to 95%
what has since happened to his 5%?
M.
Remember that nice picture of the cows swamping the TV uplink vans ?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/07/article-2198777-14E29833000005DC-520_964x655.jpg
Rural region: A herd of cows this morning walks past the vehicles owned by the world’s media that are parked on the side of the road near the shooting scene
From the Mail article /news/article-2198777/French-Alps-shooting-Police-question-Saad-Al-Hillis-brother-Zaid-inheritance-row.html
GIP…
Maybe….they intended to lull them. I get that. Why not.
But did that “lull” become “all consuming” ?
They went after the brother…and very publicly.
What do I believe ? Well. nothing.
Mollier was no stranger to the area (nice bike or mountain bike).
Whereas “papa bear” says… “I told him to go another route (that day)”.
All a bit odd.
Mollier was there…and at “that time”. That is fact.
The builders say “Al Hilli passed earlier”. Did they ?
The 1517 (rather dodgy) photo says they never did (or that turned, or they went up the hill and came back down again).
I say…. bullshit.
One (or all) of the witnesses (and I class the 1517 pic as “a witness”) ate lying. You simply cannot have “several different timelines” of what went on.
Martin was “behind Mollier”, then “passed by Al Hilli” and then “he saw a motorcyclist drive down”.
This is “unconfirmed”… because THE FRENCH won’t say what their motorcyclist saw (or didn’t see).
If Martin is telling the truth…..then everything else is a lie (or “not being told” as it was).
There is “no way” you can build a timeline on “what the witnesses are saying”…so the conclusion is…. a witness (or all the witnesses) are lying. Simple.
GIP, you really need to look at the photo, they did not walk down the Combe route, they were crossing from Route de Chevaline, across the green at the
derelict sawmill, the fork in the road and then went over the bridge across the Ire.
James, the family ensemble photo taken at 15:08 ….. ask Max.
M.
Why ? Was Max there ?
According to sources, that photo was taken at 15:08 in Arnand. A French source you would accept to have some credit.
Even at the outset, the local Surrey Press reported the photos were taken in Arnand.
Interesting comments about the Russian plane, when there is a vacuum of information the Press fill it with speculation, the first 48 hours of info are usually wrong – check it out, you’ll be surprised.
M.
I appreciate what you’re saying (re the Russian accident/incident) and this event.
The fact remains however…. it was said that “the last photos were taken in Arnand”, which later changed to “here is the last photo”.
(I may a that TP disputes this, in his notes… there were not pics, it is “indicated).
So…. what to believe ? We are certainly not privy to that info.
BUT… run the scenarios.
The builders…. the “early” arrival of Al Hilli at the Martinet.
That makes WBM a liar. ONF1 mistaken. And the police “in conspiracy”.
WBM…. he was passed by Al Hilli.
That makes the builders “mistaken”. ONF1 sighting a “mystery object in the shape of an X5” and ONF2 (and Mr Lyon) virtually blind !
You see…. there is something “missing”.
re the Metrojet.
The “media” fill the vacuum.
Well yes…but also
1 Metrojet “deny” it is there fault. A security issue, perhaps !
2 Egypt counter. They deny this and say “lets wait and see”.
3 The media “write” anything and everthing inbetween !!!!
It looks like a rear bulkhead failure to me (the rear, gone).
Or hydraulic failure resulting in the loss of control (the rear gone ??).
All a bit “strange”….. but not anything “more strange”.
I will be “amazed” if it is “a bomb” (other than “old scuba gear).
A failure of the hull (at altitude) is usually (as in unusually) an issue with “previous maintenance”. I wait to be wrong….as I often am !
I will add….
Re the Russian jet. The operators are “praying” it was a bomb !
Like may things, there is always “an interest” in something being something else.
Here… what is that ?
Why is it “more important” that SAH was the target than SM ?
I see that as “an issue”.
If Al Hilli was not “involved”, then it is a minor story.
But with his family murdered….it is a major story.
I think…the Luger involved was “old”.
And so the bullets.
The whole “kit” (gun and bullets) was to be destroyed after the event….
…and yet as it was “used up”, because it was there.
It still points to….
Killer known.
Target known
Backer known
Cover up known.
Add names…where appropriate ! (does the uncle still carry his gun ??)
@ James, well said.
Why is it more important that Saad al Hili /someone in the al-Hilli party or all of them
were the target and
NOT SYLVAIN MOLLIER?
If we can find the answer to this question
we may just begin to open the case.
It is my contention that the hit was against
Sylvain Moliier and one or more persons in the al Hilli party.
Lebanese judicial authorities charged a Saudi prince and nine other people with drug smuggling via Beirut airport, and referred the case to an investigating judge, judicial sources and the National News Agency reported on Monday.
The prince has been widely identified in Lebanese media and by security officials speaking anonymously as Abdulmohsen bin Walid bin Abdulmohsen bin Abdulaziz Al Saud.
Lebanese authorities detained five Saudi citizens at the airport last week after finding two tonnes of Captagon amphetamine pills bound for Saudi Arabia on a private jet, security sources and the NNA said, the biggest smuggling operation ever discovered at the airport.
On Monday the prince and four other people in custody were accused of the crime, the NNA cited Claude Karam, public prosecutor for the Mount Lebanon area, as saying. The charges were also levelled at five other people in absentia, he added.
When contacted by Reuters, Karam declined to name the prince, citing the secrecy of the ongoing investigation.
There has been no comment from Saudi authorities on the case. Nobody could be immediately reached at the Saudi embassy in Beirut.
Consumption of Captagon outside the Middle East is negligible, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) said last year, but it is a significant drug in the Gulf. Lebanon and neighbouring Syria are conduit routes for the drug.
http://www.france24.com/en/20151102-lebanon-charges-saudi-prince-over-record-drug-trafficing-two-tonnes-crime
I think you can forget the family involvement, here is the why:
As James points out if the family hadn’t been murdered then the chances of any of you living outside of France is virtually nil.
The murder of Mollier would have been reported and likely picked up on the strapline of BFMTV and a National News Outlet.
Now, it wouldn’t have been long before the Nationals realised the dead man was the future husband of the niece of Morange, who has already been touched by the murder of his friend and colleague, the perpertrator has not been found.
If the family Schutz were responsible the liklihood of a gun being used is low, far better an accident on his bike would have left little or no suspicion and warranted no more than a paragraph in the local rag.
To put Mollier in the frame, then it is someone with a personal grudge against him who knew he was going to be at Le Martinet to meet with someone, most likely a woman. Problem is they have been all over his life and have failed to dig up anything.
Maybe afterall it is someone from the Chevaline side of Les Bauges who had no link to any of the dead, as Paul Ducher commented ‘he just let rip’ ……
Should read ‘Schutz family involvement’ and ‘knowing about it is virtually nil’.
James, there were 18 taken that day, as stated by:
“Family snaps taken on day of shooting
DCI Mark Preston of Surrey Police told the inquest 18 photos were found on Saad al-Hilli’s camera taken on day of shootings.
All were typical family snaps.
He said there is an ongoing inquiry into the deaths taking place in the UK.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-al-hilli-murders-recap-4602965
Maillaud has explained how the three photos were leaked from Paris, due to poor quality I bet someone took a photo of the photos as they were displayed on screen and most likely on a mobile phone, otherwise Rizet would have had a far greater choice of what he put out on TV.
And finally for today, just a little reminder:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/14/alps-shootings-survivor-return-uk
In the immediate aftermath, locals were shocked and, understandably, concerned for their own safety. “I thought it was a guy who wanted to let rip,” said Paul Ducher, a farmer mucking out his cowshed in Chevaline. He and many others feared that one seemingly random shooting spree could quite easily be followed by another. Before long, however, that initial panic ebbed away as indications grew that these were more likely to have been planned killings, the roots of which lay far away from Chevaline. “This goes way beyond us,” said Martial, Ducher’s neighbour.
Richard Gessner, a businessman who used to live in the village, said the “bizarre” nature of the saga – its international scope, its hint of intrigue – had caused many locals to detach themselves from it. “That’s why it hasn’t had such a big impact here,” he said. “The first day, there was an impact because the locals thought there might be a madman on the loose, but now the indications are that it was a contract killing, a targeting thing, they’re not as worried.”
And towards the end of the article it mentions the Mitsubishi 4×4, there is an Outlander model that has a grill not to disimilar to the BMW. ONF1 says car was speeding, could this be why the X3/X5 hasn’t been traced, it wasn’t one ?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mitsubishi_Outlander_II_front_20100509.jpg
@M I am following I have got a lot of other things on so a bit busy do you know how Richard Gessner came to be interviewed ?
No, Pink, but Martial is Martial Clerc a builder, he lives next to Sylvie and is the neighbour of the other farmer, the one who said he should have brought his cattle down from the pastures the day of the murders.
There is a Richard Gessner living in Annecy, a bit of an action man, check out his FB page.
Owner of R Services, chauffer driven car hire: http://www.rservices.fr/
J
“If Martin is telling the truth…..then everything else is a lie (or “not being told” as it was).
There is “no way” you can build a timeline on “what the witnesses are saying”…so the conclusion is…. a witness (or all the witnesses) are lying. Simple.”
Things are rarely that black and white. In particular the justice system is built on making judgments about the reliability of statements.
“If Martin is telling the truth…..then something is “not being told” as it was.”
I can agree to that and then can construct alternate timelines based on my judgments about the reliability of statements.
My intuition tells me that what little LMC is able to tell, combined with the base station logon timestamps and call logs that led to him, have been sufficient to raise questions that have led le gendarmes back to question the village folk.
Lets be clear, I think the ‘convocation’ is bogus and the reason for it is also bogus. They are not fishing for some putative witness in fear of reprisals. They wanted to ask some specific people some very specific questions without making it obvious what they were up to.
So they question everybody for some made-up reason that no one believes. Then plant a press story about looking for locals being in fear of reprisals, but didn’t in fact find anybody.
Eric’s policy of ‘investment’ in the local press clearly works if they can be led to print nonsense like that.
GIP, why do you think the article vanished ?
what was the point of publishing it in the first place, I’m stumped.
FRENCH politics are “getting” dirty
an old chum of the maternal uncle of Claire Schutz is angry
http://www.france24.com/en/20151103-france-sarkozy-outraged-link-air-cocaine-investigation-police
Former president Nicolas Sarkozy accused French magistrates on Tuesday of violating legal principles by tracking his phone usage in connection with their investigation of a transatlantic drug smuggling operation.
The comments from Sarkozy, tipped to run again for president in 2017, added a bizarre political dimension to a probe that has dominated headlines since two French airline pilots convicted of cocaine smuggling in the Dominican Republic escaped to France in mysterious circumstances last week.
In an interview with the newspaper Le Parisien, Sarkozy said his lawyers were demanding to know why the judiciary had examined his phone records when the only link was that he had flown with the airline at the centre of the probe.
“What I want to know is what could justify an investigating magistrate taking such measures solely because I used the same airline,” said Sarkozy.
“What do they think I did – fly to Punta Cana with 700 kg of cocaine? All this would be just laughable if it wasn’t about a violation of legal principles that all French people support.”
Government involvement?
He said such phone tracking could not have been authorised without the knowledge of President Francois Hollande’s Socialist government.
Prime Minister Manuel Valls later denied the allegation, saying magistrates had not informed the government that they had examined Sarkozy’s phone records.
The two pilots, who escaped to France after what French media described as a commando-style escape by boat, had been arrested at Punta Cana airport in the Dominican Republic in March 2013.
A trial found they had been involved in smuggling cocaine on small private jets between the Dominican Republic and the upmarket French Riviera resort of Saint Tropez, and they were sentenced in August to 20 years’ jail. Authorities said they were preparing to leave on a mid-size Dassault Falcon 50 jet with 26 suitcases containing 680 kilograms (1,500 pounds) of cocaine when they were arrested. Both strongly denied the offences and were free to circulate in the Dominican Republic pending appeals.
France has denied any state involvement in the pilots’ escape, who were arrested before dawn on Monday and taken in for questioning.
Dominican authorities have said they intend to have an international arrest warrant issued for the men.
For MN, are those Lugers on the right ?
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/video-vosges-un-arsenal-de-guerre-decouvert-dans-un-appartement-03-11-2015-5243291.php#xtref=http%3A%2F%2Factu.orange.fr%2Ffaits-divers%2Fvideo-vosges-un-arsenal-de-guerre-decouvert-dans-un-appartement-leparisien_CNT000000f89Jh.html
M.
I am not sure that the article actually vanished. I thought that it was a pay-wall issue. Check out the message Shadwell posted:-
https://twitter.com/shadwell_NTT/status/658656147667353600
I haven’t read the article. I have no £ to spare, never mind €.
By the way, I have only this year got to the tipping point whereby the ‘local’ piste got as credible as lets say ‘international’ pistes. As indicated in previous posts what got me going was ‘Eric watching’ and what I perceive as the LMC post-discovery shift of focus.
I think that you may have looked at the local area pretty thoroughly, did you reach any conclusions that can be posted? I have been pretty careful in my recent posting not to use names not least because I am making some major assumptions.
One thing that is interesting to me is the claim by EM that because it was on their doorstep, they have thoroughly investigated the local piste. I remember the ‘list of all the people CS ever knew’ I wonder how they can be sure they have full coverage of ‘all the people that SM ever knew’.
There are also other potential targets for the local piste such as WBM or PB+2.