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Peter
You commented:-
I agree, which is why I didn’t do it !
My proposal ‘removes’ a piece that wasn’t there but does not necessarily introduce one. The piece was already on the board.
I suggested that the Col Motor Cycle (CMC) as seen by Janin could be the Pannier Motor Cycle (PMC) as seen by ONF1.
That might not be true, in which case, one would have a ‘known unknown’. So after having thoroughly eliminated all the known people within striking distance, it would then be perfectly reasonable to posit another actor, a bad actor, to wit the killer.
Anyway “smacks of force fitting” sounds more like the PM interrogation to me…
Peter
You noted that MC Hash required fairly unlikely assumptions;
Let me address these in order, firstly the similarity of type and appearance of bike. I am not sure that the descriptions given by ONF1 and ONF2 to the gendarmes actually were that similar to begin with. Even after the ‘fitting’ was completed the resultant composite picture did not match an actual production motorcycle. I seem to recall that EM described it as an impossible motorcycle.
Fortunately however, for my proposal to work, the brief verbal descriptions given of the motorcycle that they each saw at or above Le Martinet, whilst they conferred on their evening telephone call, just needs to be similar enough to warrant their implicit assumption that they must have seen the same motorcycle.
Secondly, the failure to voluntarily come forward. Well, that seems to be a reasonable assumption in this part of france. After all LMC did not come forward and he apparently was not involved. Don’t get involved seems to be a local maxim. Of course, if PMC were the shooter or otherwise involved then they obviously would not come forward.
Thirdly, PMC neither registering with the local mobile phone network, nor being captured on CCTV is not a claim or assumption that I have made. Either or both could have occured and been followed up, the rider being excluded in error. EM claims that all known vehicles on the combe had been excluded. One would hope that they had at least identified CMC.
In fact the assumption you suggest seems perfectly reasonable if the rider were the shooter or otherwise involved and had taken precautions.
Peter
You make interesting points about BMW Level Control and Electronic Damper Control (EDC).
I had been thinking along the lines that SAH’s background as a mechanical engineer and his love of tinkering (he was described in one report as servicing the BMW himself) may have led him to fit manually adjustable shocks but your suggestion makes it more likely that he selected the vehicle to support caravaning.
If EDC were fitted (or level control is settable in some way) then SAH may have dialed the ride height up deliberately when heading up the potholed road leading to Le Martinet.
“Electronic Damper Control”, also called “Variable Damper Control”
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/technology_guide/articles/electronic_damper_control.html?content_type=&source=/com/en/insights/technology/technology_guide/articles/adaptive_drive.html&article=electronic_damper_control
was in fact available for SAH’s 2004 BMW 530d SE 5dr Diesel with manual gearbox as an optional extra for just under £ 1000. I have not been able to ascertain whether or not his car did in fact have this system (and I would not know how to check that), but it is certainly possible, as this feature was considered one of the key selling points of these cars.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/bmw/5-series-touring/530d-se-5dr/summary/63651
Anyway, if SAH’s car did indeed have this system installed, it stands to reason that he would have gone for maximal ground clearance on that potholed road up to the Martinet, which would have made his car look more like a BMW X5. All this is pure supposition, but it has that unmistakable ring of truth about it.
Can anyone please backup the following statement that Brett Martin noted that the MC he had seen had ‘big panniers’ with a link or other media reference, Thanks.
It is taken from a post by Lars to Lynda on March 9, 2014 at 23:45 on Max’s ‘DEADZONE 61’ blog:-
https://deadzone61.wordpress.com/tck-forum-public/comment-page-7/#comment-3340
I had a Volvo estate, the rear suspension was a bit soft, the solution was to go to a trailer firm, buy a pair of rubber inserts.
Then you jack the car up, put the rubber inserts into hot water, then slide them over the springs, then lower the jack.
This raised the rear of the car about 40mm.
It was cheap and quick to do.
Apparently this is what caravaner people do.
GIP found a few links in my bookmark.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/witness-recalls-motorbike-4×4-scene-6216877
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4742429/Motorbiker-is-the-top-suspect-over-Alps-murder-of-British-family.html
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/la-tuerie-de-chevaline-a-l-epreuve-du-chronometre-13-09-2012-2162
Pink
Thanks for the links – the one from the Sun is the most interesting – see below – but none of them mention WBM claiming to have seen ‘big panniers’. It seems probable WBM did claim this at some stage because Lars struck me as a ‘detail man’, however I just cannot find the reference.
Peter
Generally I favour a parsimonious explanation, without introducing completely new elements.
But if CMC were involved and did travel the Col de Cherel via Jarsy & Precherel, the implications are pretty disturbing. Unless the rider were a psycho killer targeting random victims the target has to be SM or the ‘overnight hikers’ thus the travel time would mean that their planned route were known in advance. Information that would only be known to a small circle of family, friends or perhaps co-workers.
If I am correct, this is going to get messy.
Can someone refresh my memory? Was the identity of the motorcyclist in the Pont de l’Alma ever disclosed?
How long does it take to travel by helicopter from the Chateau D’Autet in Provence to Chevaline?
Psycho Killer? qu’est-ce que c’est?
UGINE accused of stabbing his friend was indicted for attempted murder
The attacker of Marc Brown, who received a dozen stab wounds on the night of Saturday to Sunday,
has been indicted and imprisoned for attempted murder. Gerald Jiguet a carpenter of forty years had gone home after the event, before traveling, shortly after, to the police to explain his act.
The victim, who was one of his friends, attending his girlfriend for a few months, according to prosecutors Chambery. He was aware that his wife was cheating on him for some time, but he hoped that this link would end. It was not the case.
During an argument, Gérald Jiguet understood that his companion and his friend always had a relationship. This is probably what would have pushed to pass the act. In the night from Saturday to Sunday at around 3: 30 pm, the man jealous visited 12 avenue Jules Bianco, where lives the one who was his friend. The latter lives alone. He was stabbed in several places on the body. If his prognosis is not in danger of neurological sequelae may be fears.
That address seems familiar — Jules Bianco
Up near the top of the hill is a shop called
“CATHAY COIFFURE”
The address comes up with “Pollier Brun Frederique Josette”.
http://www.manageo.fr/fiche_info/752924191/14/pollier-brun-frederique-josette.html
July 2012 is the starting date for this company.
CATHAY COIFFURE is about a three minute walk from the Fire Station.
What does the vague “personal services” mean?
http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/44143174/Pollier-Brun-Frederique-Josette-in-Ugine-France
“Overview
Pollier Brun Frederique Josette is a miscellaneous personal service in Ugine. This company was founded in 2012.
Revenue
The organization generates $94,892 in estimated sales.
Employees
Pollier Brun Frederique Josette employs one person.”
Oh. It’s a “spa”.
https://pagesjaunes.cybo.com/FR-biz/pollier-brun-frederique-josette
From September 28 on these threads:
“There is a Josette Falcomata Pollier here in Annecy.”
A spa:
https://www.facebook.com/events/610348375643985/
NOUVEAU SUR UGINE MASSAGE-BIEN-ETRE
12 avenue jules bianco, 73400 Ugine, Rhone-Alpes, France
Frédérique BRUN
A torch singer by the name of Brindille:
http://brindille.centerblog.net/articles/facebook+frederique+brun+ugine+connexion
http://brindille.centerblog.net/112-brindille-album-12
Photos of Brindille, not gender specific.
CATHAY COIFFURE is No.5, virtually opposite No.12
No.12 is a large’old grey building with a walk-through way,
looks like a house of multiple occupation.
There is another coiffure shop, a few doors higher up, nearer the square, which one did the widow of Sylvain work in?
so is Josette Brun
related to BRUN “The Watcher” also known as “BRINDLE” ?
Ahem, note the name of the site here:
http://brindille.centerblog.net/rub-photos-.html
Victor, Victoria.
Romantic pics of Brindille…
http://brindille.centerblog.net/rub-photos–2.html
Brindille’s apartment may have a window looking directly into Cathy Coiffure .
A random, 40-something carpenter?
http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2016/03/21/le-suspect-place-en-detention
L’agresseur de Marc Brun, qui a reçu une dizaine de coups de couteau, dans la nuit de samedi à dimanche, a été mis en examen et écroué pour tentative d’assassinat. Gérald Jiguet, charpentier d’une quarantaine d’années était rentré chez lui après les faits, avant de se rendre, peu de temps après, à la gendarmerie pour expliquer son acte.
La victime, qui était un de ses amis, fréquentait sa compagne depuis quelques mois, selon le parquet de Chambéry. Il était au courant que sa femme le trompait depuis un certain temps, mais il espérait que cette liaison allait prendre fin. Ce ne fut pas le cas.
Au cours d’une dispute, Gérald Jiguet a compris que sa compagne et son ami entretenaient toujours une relation. C’est sans doute ce qui l’aurait poussé à passer à l’acte. Dans la nuit de samedi à dimanche, aux alentours de 3 h 30, l’homme jaloux s’est rendu au 12 avenue Jules Bianco, où habite celui qui était son ami. Ce dernier vit seul. Il a été poignardé à plusieurs endroits sur le corps. Si son pronostic vital n’est pas en danger, des séquelles neurologiques peuvent être craintes.
Could this boil down to a sex scandal in Ugine?
A sex scandale en France!? Mon vieux ..
http://www.libramemoria.com/avis/le-dauphine/savoie/2012/10/02/avis-frederic-brun?Page=3
Recalling that there is a Christiane in this story.
MN and Q, you are rather late to the party regarding FrederIC “Brindille” Brun, it is tiresome to read, other than to say his brother Jordan was driving the crashed car. I can’t be bothered to educate you further, enjoy your game.
GIP, does the car on the back of the tow truck look as if the rear is raised sufficiently to mimic an X5 ? Even taking into considertion a flat tyre.
Janin and his MC, forgetting his forgetfullness, he was washing his cheese boards, the MC went towards Le Martinet around 16:00 he saw it return, no timing given.
I’m giving up, nothing new to add and MN gets on my tits, he spouts bollocks because he doesn’t have the brains or memory to form an intelligent discussion, I trust you are all suitably offended.
MN, the L’Essor did publish an article on behalf of the family as a correction to misinformation, they didn’t need a lawyer.
I’d bet money on the family or one of them being the target, it is personal and about money or property. I look forward to being proved wrong.
I dunno. The recent stabbing seems important.
M.
Glad you are back, even briefly.
The apparent ride height of the BMW on the tow truck is moot, as the engine would not be running. My view is that, just as with hydraulic brakes, that the engine would provide the power. I am happy to be corrected if wrong.
As to Janin and his malleable testimony, if this ever goes to court the defence would have a field day with him.
Before you go, please can you cast your eye over the timeline and weigh in on the evening telephone call between ONF1 & ONF2.
As to bets, having gone local, I have a different perspective to yours. There is a small hat, a beret in fact, on my desk constructed entirely of segments of chocolate orange, which I shall consume if not right in every respect.
I too, look forward to being proven wrong.
FRENCH economy minister Emmanuel Macron says EDF will now make a final investment decision on
the Hinkley Point, Somerset, ENGLAND, EPR Nuclear Reactors in early May.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35873786
Brussels explosions: UK Foreign Office warns against travel to Brussels
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35870700
Home Secretary Theresa May said security checks at UK borders were being increased “to ensure public safety and provide public reassurance”.
She told MPs there would be more searching of vehicles and greater use of search dogs.
Search Dogs?
After the Slaughter of the Horses incident up Le Martinet,
did they straight away bring in the dogs to track the on-foot shootist?
Le Salon de Lydie
seems to be in an apartment, not far from the apartment of poor Patrice Menegaldo
The problem with the lone nutters theory is that Ugine/Haute Savoie/Savoie has far too many to choose from. They’re cowboys, the lot of them. It must be something in the water.
So do we know if straight away, after the event of The Slaughter of the Horses,
were search dogs introduced?
The attacker of Marc Brun, who received a dozen stab wounds on the night of Saturday to Sunday,
has been indicted and imprisoned for attempted murder.
Gerald Jiguet a carpenter forty years had gone home after the event, before travelling, shortly after,
to the police to explain his act.
The victim, who was one of his friends, attending his girlfriend for a few months, according to prosecutors Chambery.
He was aware that his woman was cheating on him for some time, but he hoped that this link would end. It was not the case.
During an argument, Gérald Jiguet understood that his companion and his friend always had a relationship. This is probably what would have pushed him to act. In the night from Saturday to Sunday at around 3: 30 am, the jealous man
visited 12 avenue Jules Bianco, where lives the one who was his friend. The latter lives alone. He was stabbed in several places on the body. If his prognosis is not in danger of neurological sequelae may be fears.
Do we know when this stabbing in Ugine happened?
This stabbing must be RINGING BELLS with ERIC MAILLAUD
Does this Gérald Jiguet have connections to Veyrier du Lac or Doussard? Did he ever serve in the military? Does he have any kind of martial arts or defence training?How about owning a motorcycle or 4X4? Does he have that particular moustache-beard combo of Erix Devouassoux? What were his construction projects in September 2012? Maybe our investigator was barking up the right tree, wrong branch. A case of mistaken identity?
Or maybe GJ is a hiker?
Maybe Gerald Jiguet was in the car when Mr. Brun drove down a gorge whilst sitting in the back seat?
There is a chance that Mr. Jiguet hails from Flumet,
close to the heart of the nest of the clan Mollier.
http://copainsdavant.linternaute.com/photo/ecole-primaire-de-flumet-ecole-des-aravis-flumet-3504792
I think Mr. Marc Brun’s companion may be Frederique Brun
Peter & M. or anyone else interested
BMW Level Control and/or Electronic Damper Control (EDC). as suggested by Peter could explain another detail which seems to have troubled some people and led them to doubt the testimony of WBM, his description of the car apparently ‘lurching’.
As the car rode backward up the bank, wheelspinned, ‘deweighted’ and dropped back in a continuous cycle, whatever suspension feedback systems were actually active would have gone into a hysteresis fit, hunting all over the place. As one tyre was slightly flat, an asymetric motion could also develop.
If you want to take this line of reasoning to its logical, and most sinister, conclusion, the specific time when the BMW would look most like an X5 would be viewed from the side immediately after it had lodged itself up against the bank and was bouncing its back end.
Obviously this would be after its reverse arc and after everyone had been shot.
I believe WBM’s testimony about just long it took for the penny to drop, so I am also willing to believe that someone could drive through Le Martinet and see ‘normality’, a cyclist flopped out, an X5 nudging the bank and a kid playing. They would have had much less time than WBM to think and hey, the car was manoevering and the kid was moving. I mean dead people don’t drive, do they?
It is also possible that the shooter thought it was an X5.
Was ONF1 supposed to be the patsy, did someone feed ONF1 the whole X5 line? What came of the whole Jean-Mark Ducos fourgon story? The one that does not seem to exist.
As one tyre was slightly flat, (…)
That is the simple explanation we both have missed. The tyre was more than just slightly flat, meaning that the rear axle would have drooped on that side. However, the on-board sensors of a BMW of that vintage (with, at most, passive TPMS) would not have been able to tell the difference between a flat tyre and some heavy object in the trunk weighing down on one side of the rear axle only (or a very heavy passenger sitting in the rear of the car). Thus, BMW Level Control would have tried to compensate for that droop by firming up the corresponding damper in order to get the rear axle back into a horizontal position. As stiffening the suspension on one side only would have dangerously degraded the car’s handling, the other rear shock would have been stiffened a little bit as well, raising the car’s rear on both sides.
In short, SAH’s BMW with its wonky rear tyre would have looked somewhat X5ish even while it was being quietly driven up the Combe.
Peter
Yes, that makes sense, thanks for that insight.
I would just add that the effect you suggest would be enhanced by both the slope
of the combe and the height of the drivers seat in the ONF1 vehicle (WBM claims
he saw a 4×4).
Right now I am reasonably happy that the ONF1 and ONF2 descents have
indeed been ‘misplaced’ on the official timeline as a result of their own
‘misinterpretation’ exacerbated by the poor interview practice of the gendarmerie.
This whole ‘hash-up’ concept has further merit in offering an explanation as to why
LMC was not discovered much earlier. The gendarmerie, having settled on their
incorrect timeline would have derived an earliest possible cut-off time for LMC to
be visible on the various CCTV feeds available to them. Similarly an earliest
possible time to re-logon to the local cell base station would have been derived.
Unfortunately the CCTV cut-off time would have been too late by a minimum of 10
minutes. In fact it would likely be nearer 15 or even 20 minutes. If I am correct it is
no wonder that they did not find LMC for so long and some small credit is due to
whichever gendarmerie officer had the insight or persistance to work backwards
through the logs until they hit paydirt.
At this point a pause for reflection is probably in order. For a ‘motorcycle theorist’ like myself it is very tempting to steam on, linking the putative PMC to the sightings of both WBM and Janin. However other aspects of this case may be affected by the ONF reversal and thus merit a closer look.
Have you, or anyone else, got any suggestions?
Brussels terrorists planned nuclear plants attack, changed target after accomplice’s arrest – report
https://www.rt.com/news/336985-brussels-terror-nuclear-plants/
Brussels suicide bombers Khalid and Ibrahim El Bakraoui were planning attacks on Belgian nuclear power stations, Dernier Heure newspaper has reported.
The newspaper exclusively reported that the arrest of Paris attacker Salah Abdeslam accelerated the plans of the terrorists.
The brothers planted a hidden camera in front of the home of the director of the Belgian nuclear research program, the paper said.
Evidence obtained by the authorities shows that the same terrorist cell was behind the Paris attacks in November that killed more than 130 people and this week’s Brussels bombings, which claimed the lives of 31 people and injured over 270, the paper wrote.
Well, I have been banging on about “was there more than one motorcycle”
since LMC made his inconspicuous, brief dash across the stage.
My point was:
13 months after the Slaughter of the Horses,
an E-FIT-SKETCH was released, depicting a motorcyclist with a side opening helmet.
Not long after a local dead-ringer, who we learned was an eXpoliceman was arrested.
As he looked the part, we briefly imagined this was the man or his accomplice.
It transpired that Eric Devouassoux was not the man or his accomplice, however at the same time another person was helping police with their enquiries
and this unnamed person earned the monica of LMC.
Now, we are also expected to understand that neither of these local men were the man but although Eric Devouassoux was a local gun-nut dead-ringer, we do not know if LMC was a dead-ringer for the E-FIT-SKETCH
Before we can move on,
we should know if LMC is a dead-ringer for the E-FIT-SKETCH
if LMC is not a likeness then we may begin to imagine that wool has been pulled over the eyes of the public.
IE dirty tricks.
I owe that insight to my parents’ former housekeeper, an extremely stout lady who used to drive a long-suffering Daihatsu Cuore that visibly listed to the driver’s side whenever she was behind the wheel. She recently traded up to a brand-new BMW featuring an active Tyre Pressure Monitoring System, thanks to which she almost ended up suing BMW: every time she hauled herself into that car, buzzers started sounding and yellow warning lights started flashing, warning her of “insufficient tyre pressure” and directing her post-haste to the nearest BMW workshop 😉
There is no way a driver can switch off those alarms, and they are impossible to ignore. Thus, I am confident that SAH did not have one of those “smart” TPMS on board, because he would not voluntarily have taken his family for a drive if he did. As I explained, older on-board electronics would not have been able to differentiate between a flat rear tyre and an asymmetrical load bearing down upon the rear axle, and hence would have more-or-less-quietly adjusted the rear shocks in order to keep the car level.
Regarding the motorcyclist(s), I don’t know what LMC told the gendarmerie, but he obviously had more than a little explaining to do. Even judging by the standards of shy, reticent French witnesses, his not coming forward even though he knew all along that he was the motorcyclist they were looking for is quite extraordinary. Thus, I suspect that he may have been up to something disreputable, if not criminal, on that occasion. What that might have been, and why it might have involved, ahem, erratically cruising around the area over an extended period of time, I have no idea, but I consider it at least theoretically possible that he was the only motorcyclist on the scene. However, please do go ahead and elaborate your theory regarding the putative PMC.
Although M maintains I understand little of these matters, LMC may have driven up and down the combe that day multiple times.
This is what homosexuals do. Thus the honourable motorcyclist from LYON might have been attempting to have some encounter with a man, if that was true he is unlikely to have been the shootist but to convince the police he was picking up men he would have to produce some men to be grilled by the authorities?
BELGIUM ups security at Nuclear plants following Brussels bombings
http://www.euronews.com/2016/03/23/belgium-ups-security-at-nuclear-plants-following-brussels-bombings/
Security has been stepped up at nuclear plants around Belgium amid fears they could be the next target after the Brussels attacks.
The alert follows the discovery of secret footage of a senior Belgian nuclear official, in the Belgian flat of one of the suspects linked to the Paris terror attacks.
It’s understood to have contained dozens of hours of covert footage of an unnamed director of the Belgian nuclear research and developement programme.
Peter & MN
MN – I am sure that we would all like to see what you ask for, however the gendarmerie have clearly learned from the ED debacle and are protecting his identity. Whatever he was up to was clearly not illegal enough to prevent the gendarmes from being sued to fook if a baying press-pack spread his private life all over the tabloids. Plus I suspect that he may be needed as a witness if and when this nightmare comes to trial.
Secondly, LMC was found by reviewing cellular basestation logs and CCTV and in EM’s very, very, strange formulation of words seems to ‘accept’ that he was the rider seen by the forestry workers above Le Martinet. If he didn’t look broadly like the description given by the ONF2 pair then those two gentlemen would be getting the PM treatment. That they are not implies that he is sufficiently goaty to satisfy even you Michael.
It should be obvious now why les gendarmes doubted the X5 story and why ONF1 was under deep suspicion. The fact that he is not treated like PM nor being brought-to-book for wasting police time, reads to me as if les gendarmes worked out some time ago that their interview practices were pants and don’t want them waved around in public.
So, no X5 then. What remains? Motorcycles, lots of motorcycles !
Well lots of motorcycle sightings anyway. At least six sightings that cannot be definitely assigned to LMC and probably a whole lot more that we are unaware of.
A minimum of two more riders in addition to our man from Lyon and, in my humble opinion, there are more.
“Two riders were approaching, and the wind began to howl”
President François Hollande, whose term ends in May 2017,
has said he will not run for re-election if he fails to secure a “meaningful” fall in the jobless rate.
http://www.france24.com/en/20160324-french-unemployment-hits-new-record
France’s unemployment rate rose 1.1 percent in the month of February,
pushing jobless numbers to a record 3.591 million people, the Labour Ministry said Thursday.
The monthly spike is the sharpest since September 2013 and follows a slight dip in January that had raised hopes of an end to years of surging unemployment.
Let us try and think through what it could mean if LMC did not resemble the E-FIT-SKETCH disseminated 13 months after the Slaughter of the Horses.
If the SKETCH was a likeness of the motorcyclist with the special side-opening helmet, spoken to by a person working for the ONF , just prior to the Slaughter of the Horses,
then there is ANOTHER motorcyclist ( who resembles the E-FIT-SKETCH) who has not come forward.
It could be that the local authorities know this, in the sense they have been told by somebody higher up the pecking order but told to not look further, to cloud the waters as it were. If this is the case, this other motorcyclist could be the shootist or an accomplice of the shootist.
My favoured theory is that the E-FIT-SKETCH was made to look like Eric Devouassoux to have him fitted up as
the fall guy, so the real motorcyclist could evade detection,
thus the reasoning behind the hit will remain unknown by the public.
This would be very scary indeed.
MN
For that to work the ONF2 pair would have to have given the ‘tailored’ description ! Any gendarme artist developing the ‘robot portrait’ would only be able to tweak the image because the ONF would have seen the image as it was developed then again later the image released to the public. They would have kicked-off if it were radically different.
I can however understand if the gendarmes modified the image for public release e.g. to make it monochrome. There could be good reasons to do this such as allowing it to be printed in black and white in a newspaper, or faxed to a press agency or other police forces. Some features, such as the unusual helmet, may have been accentuated because they were more confident about that aspect. Wrongly, as it turned out.
The original robot, or hand drawn, portrait developed in conjunction with the ONF2 pair must date back to late 2012.
If the SKETCH was a likeness of the motorcyclist with the special side-opening helmet, spoken to by a person working for the ONF, just prior to the Slaughter of the Horses, and that motorcycle rider, having finally been found, was determined during interview to have left the combe before WBM entered it, then there is ANOTHER motorcyclist ( who may or may not resemble the E-FIT-SKETCH) who has not come forward.
I think that is likely.
What is also puzzling is after a crime in France, sometimes no names are given.
Sometimes only the name of the assailant is given but not the victim.
Sometimes the name of the victim is given but not the name of the assailant.
Sometimes both the name of the victim is given and the name of the assailant.
In the case of the shooting of Nicole Communal-Tournier the names of the victims are known,
Mr.&Mrs Communal-Tournier but we do not know the names of the five locked up perps.
In the recent case of the stabbing in Ugine we know straight away the name of the victim and the name of the assailant.
Why all these differences?
In the case of the agro in Faverges and Doussard, we still do not know the names of the hospitalised victims
( local couple) but we know the name of the assailant Steve Havactu.
So who gets to do the pick and mix in openness?
Peter
I have not forgotton your post dated March 20, 2016 at 09:50 when you asked:-
I have not found the original source yet. However I have found a reference in a post on Deadzone 61 by James dated August 29, 2014 at 13:58 The key line is as follows:-
The link is below – it really is worth a read.
https://deadzone61.wordpress.com/tck-forum-public/comment-page-13/#comment-7766
Looks like I shall have to try to find the Panorama programme online and re-watch it. Whilst searching I also came across another interesting post on Deadzone 61 this time by by Lynda dated August 29, 2014 at 18:09 The key line is as follows:-
The link is below – also worth a read.
https://deadzone61.wordpress.com/tck-forum-public/comment-page-13/#comment-7779
So, if correct, the first reports in Liberation give the timing of the ONF2 sighting of LMC as pretty much bang-on my ‘estimate’…
Four people in the carriage of a train – an Englishman, a pretty young
blonde girl, an ugly old woman and a Frenchman.
It all goes dark when the train goes through a tunnel. In the dark
there’s the sound of an almighty slap, and when the train emerges from
the tunnel the Frenchman is rubbing his face, and there’s a huge red
mark on his cheek.
The old lady thinks “I bet that Frenchman fondled the blonde in the
dark and she slapped him”
The pretty young blonde thinks “I bet the Frenchman tried to fondle me
in the dark, got the old lady by mistake, and she hit him”
The Frenchman thinks “I bet that Englishman fondled the blonde in the
dark, but the blonde thought it was me and hit me”
the Englishman thinks “I hope there’s another tunnel coming up soon so
I can slap that French twat again”
Here is a thought:
suppose the person supplying the weapons /ammunition for 05/09/2012 hired a chalet in L’Ideal, Lathuile
for the handover.
Panorama Murder in the Alps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX_q5fpWSBg
Published on Sep 10, 2012
BBC 5 live Chevaline murders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtLgnAaM9Ws
SAS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35876001
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_AS565_Panther
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/655840/ISIS-attacks-UK-SAS-helicopters-attack
Elite SAS teams primed to act on terror attack on UK soil at a moment’s notice
TERROR attacks across Britain will be met by the wrath of a new airborne SAS reaction force on standby 24/7.
My money is still on local nuclear fuel employee Sylvain Mollier for being the main target of the hit on 05/09/2012
‘Terrorism is spreading and the possibility of using nuclear material cannot be excluded,
states need to have sustained interest in strengthening nuclear security.
The countries which do not recognise the danger of nuclear terrorism are the biggest problem.”
Mr Amano told AFP.
taken from The Daily Mail
Peter et al
Apparently, the MC seen on the Col was never found !
This was stated in a twitter message by Jean-Marc Ducos, who proceeded to blame the British Police !.
Yeah sure SSMC team didn’t ‘cooperate’ – maybe they were supposed to send WBM back out to france to cycle around the mountains looking for it !
Originally posted by Max on Deadzone 61 – all credit to him.
https://deadzone61.wordpress.com/tck-forum-public/comment-page-41/#comment-15251
I realise that this post is from a year ago and the situation may have changed but if not then it is time for le gendarmes to have a nice quiet chat with a farmer who may have ‘misremembered’ the timing of his sighting.
In my theory “like a movie”, you can see what they can do to taunt us :
for exemple : https://youtu.be/53H8KEVFptk
I’m sure that exist a movie with chevaline story line.
The fallout from last week’s attacks in Brussels is taking on an increasingly pan-European dimension, with arrests made over the weekend in the Netherlands, Belgium and Italy, all linked to planned terrorist assaults in France.
http://www.france24.com/en/20160328-anti-terror-arrests-take-pan-european-dimension
I expect with all this terror and follow up arrests that the focus will have left The Slaughter of the Horses investigation in the dust.
According to M the murderers of Nicole Communal-Tournier “should” be in court by April this year, this will be the second anniversary since they have been indicted but still not named- how is that even possible?
FRENCH police have been ordered to track down one of Europe’s wealthiest aristocrats over a fraud involving hundreds of BRITISH pensioners.
Baron David de Rothschild has been indicted over the allegations after the victims, mostly expats living in Spain, bought into his loan scheme.
The banking magnate will now be questioned in his native France, five years after a Marbella-based law firm began legal action against him.
French police have been told by a judge in Paris to track down the wealthy scion who has various homes in the country.
The case involves his company, the Rothschild Financial Services Group, which stands accused of falsely advertising an equity release loan scheme, bought into by more than 130 pensioners between 2005 and 2008.
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2015/06/18/exclusive-baron-rothschild-indicted-in-france-over-fraud-case/
So the French have no trouble naming Baron Rothschild,
what could be the possible reason five people being held for two years in prison for
the shooting death of Nicole Communal-Tournier have not been publicaly named?
In the stabbing in Avenue Jules Bianco, no trouble naming the person indicted, no trouble naming the victim,
so what is different about the Nicole Communal-Tournier case, is it a matter of National Security?
Have a look at these connections:
remember the stabbing recently in Avenue Jules Bianco, Ugine, Savoie,
the person hurt was 54 year old Marc Brun, the person indicted was Gérald Jiguet, charpentier d’une quarantaine d’années;
well there is a Christophe Jiget of Doussard, Haute-Savoie,
who knows Sandrine MOLLIER (PELLICIER) of Ugine and Patrice BRUN, a part time fireman.
http://copainsdavant.linternaute.com/p/christophe-jiguet-5350656/copains
It seems a lot of people know a lot of people but nobody is saying why Sylvain Mollier was murdered,
I bet some of the locals have an idea?
Yes, and curiously there is a motorcycle and a 4X4. 😉
Oh, look: another ‘stache-beard combo.
Secrets rarely remain secret forever. And so the plot unravels.
Peter et al
Whilst searching for something, I read the Deadzone 61 thread through to the end. After closing down it seems to have been re-opened intermittantly (the last post is from earlier this month March 3, 2016 at 00:20 ).
Anyway, all credit to Max, sometime after his twitter discussion with J-M D that revealed that Janins’s MC (i.e. the Col Motor Cycle) had not been found, he worked through the scenarios and the need for one or more extra motorcycles, Janin’s MC being an obvious candidate.
Check out this post by Max on May 25, 2015 at 13:10 which is a summary of his preferred theory. He also discusses a potential ‘Grignon’ connection.
https://deadzone61.wordpress.com/tck-forum-public/comment-page-48/#comment-17510
Though I am not yet sure that to simply ‘tweak’ Janin’s timing is sufficient to exclude the possibility of another MC.
I suppose as the 12 times stabbing happened in Ugine, which is in Savoie
and the murder of Nicole happened in Lathuile which is in Haute-Savoie and the Slaughter of the Horses happened in Haute-Savoie,
would likely mean that the Ugine stabbing is not in the area to which Eric Maillaud has Jurisdiction.
Mind you the site of the killing of Mollier is close to the border and he did come from Ugine and his bird did work in Grignon both of which are in Savoie. Yet Haute-Savoie get Chambery to do the investigating for them, yet that is in Savoie
It’s confusing is it not?
By design, non?
Just reading the comments….and noted a couple of things.
Firstly….
This may sound inconsequential, however….
SAH’s car was “lurching” (engine running, wheels spinning).
This is why WBM moved SM (presumably “now deceased”) out of the way.
So it was “lurching” forward ?
Eric said “it was stuck”.
To use another word for “stuck”, use “held”.
Does that mean “the rear wheels of the car were raised off the ground by the cars collision with the bank….and is unable to move forward” ?
By that, I mean “SAH managed to get the car into a forward gear AFTER the reverse arc had been accomplished (albeit, he had collided with the bank). As in, he was “moments” away from an effective escape.
I don’t believe SAH would have left his daughter behind.
So at that point, she was inside the car (although the car was later found to be locked OR the car “auto locked” after a time span, with the car in a forward gear).
Secondly…..
There has always been “thought” to a “second biker”.
WBM’s biker seems to match the Col farmers biker. The “timing” however causes confusion.
Of course much rides on, does Lyon Biker say he saw WBM ?
That we do not know.
Importantly, Lyon Biker “has to say” he saw ONF1 (and ONF1 and 2 descriptions have to match).
Why is this “element” never discussed by Eric (or did I miss it ?).
If “Biker X” approached the Martinet over the Col. And departed down the Combe D’Ire, he would largely be “iniquitous”. He approached one way. He departs another. Seeing something “twice” is always “a bit more” memorable.
The biker seen by ONF1 and ONF2 “COULD” be linked (it would be Lyon Biker).
However, the CONSIDERATION that ONF1 “never saw a biker”, is also a possibility.
Infact, the story WITHOUT the ONF1 unit is compelling….
….a biker arrives at the Martinet. Waits. Shoots. And then leaves (passing WBM in their escape).
Earlier, a biker is stopped by ONF2, but is nothing to do with the crime. Both parties have departed before any crime is undertaken.
To solve the case, you merely find the biker !
ONF1, makes the story confusing.
James
If Janin is not mistaken and the MC he saw on the Col does not make it down to Le Martinet but turns around, perhaps spooked by sirens etcetera and returns just as the farmer stated, then…
The MC seen by WBM is either the teenage trailbike rider or a ‘bad actor’ most likely acting as a lookout or sweeper (the timing does not seem to allow that the MC rider be the actual shooter). They probably would have dropped off the shooter at Le Martinet and may have been seen by ONF1.
However I do agree that ONF1 may not have seen a MC there at all. He could be confabulating and building on what he heard from ONF2. He might have even seen an MC approaching from the col earlier.
He may make the claim he does because ONF2 put first dibs on the 15:25 slot (when he was actually there) so he claimed to have seen the MC when it arrived and so approx 10 minutes earlier. This would put him neatly out-the-way so to speak.
Remember that my hash-up theory has in reality ONF2 meeting LMC at approx 15:12 and ONF1 passing through Le Martinet at approx 15:25 though they both claim the reverse ! They are now stuck with this.
The other reason I can think of as to why he may be fibbing, is because he did see a MC and rider but he is very worried that it was someone he knew ! In this scenario he morphs his sighting to conform with ONF2 and media reports of Janin’s sighting and keeps his suspicions to himself.
The FRENCH have in the past implied that if Sylvain Mollier was the actual target,
it would be nothing to do with his employment ( after all he was on family leave)
it would be because of sex.
However you would not be likely to have multiple motorcycles and a hired assassin with up to thirty bullets, it would be more like the recent knife attack in Ugine.
And if his “assassination” had nothing to do with his employment, why would Sylvain Mollier’s employer pay for a lawyer to stop French media from writing articles about him, as has been alleged?
Of course sex scandals can happen in the workplace. Even same-sex scandals happen in the workplace. Is this what they mean — the answer is “C”: all of the above?
Sex scandals in the mountain villages of the Savoie/Haute Savoie do not bring the British ambassador running. Yes, a British family was gunned down, but how many times are British citizens murdered abroad with no visible presence of their ambassador?
Assassination, terrorism — now that would bring an ambassador to the scene, especially when royals are vacationing a short helicopter ride away.
The gendarmes apparently searched satellite pictures of the Col looking for the X5. I suggest they pull those pictures out and look for a motorcycle.
This search will be more difficult. But they may get lucky with sunlight reflecting off the MC or rider. Something is needed to confirm or exclude Janin’s story.
One thing that strikes me is that Janin’s MC rider may have been set up. If he were somehow known to be heading for an assignation with, say, one of the overnight hikers, then a psychotic rival may have ‘cloned’ his motorcycle with the intent of killing the hikers and letting him ride down into a massacre and take the blame for it !
He avoids this fate because, according to Janin, he never gets to Le Martinet and returns over the Col. He is not identified and strangely he does not come forward…
Obviously in this scenario, the killer shoots the wrong group of people.
I just nuked the fridge, didn’t I ?
Good In Parts
there does seem to be quite a few motorcyclists who were at or near the scene who fail to come forward,
could it be they do not want to be thrown into a FRENCH jail and left to rot for a couple of years before it ever gets to court?
If I were a relative of Nicole Communal-Tournier, I would be p****d off that five persons had been held for a couple of years without publicly naming them or bringing them to trial.
I would say that justice delayed was justice denied.
Peter et al
Previously I posted:-
On further thought, please let me revise that statement. The travel time from (or near) the Saint-Jorioz campsite over the Col would allow the SAH party to be targets assuming that their destination were overheard and they actually had a specific destination. However we are led to believe by EM that they did not have Le Martinet specifically in mind as a destination.