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Peter
“WBM doesn’t say anything about warming up and/or taking photos in the only interview that he ever gave”
Firstly, there apparently was significantly more to the ‘only interview’ than was broadcast. Here is a quote from the ‘award winning’ Sunday Times Magazine article dated 2nd Dec 2012 by David James Smith.
“Martin has given only one interview, to Tom Symonds of the BBC, but only a small portion of the interview was broadcast and I have had access to all of it”
It appears that WBM intended at the time to only give one interview to the BBC which was to be shared with other media outlets (clearly including print media). If the killer(s) had been caught within a few months that would probably have been it until the trial.
Presumably as the years passed without the killer(s)) being caught he became more amenable to further interview requests. Such as the interview he gave for the Panorama programme.
Peter
You commented;
“The idea that it was somewhat unusual for someone on a road-racing bike to go up that route was mooted by various journalists, not by WBM, who ought to know better.”
Here are Brett Martin’s own words spoken in the Panorama interview (around the three minute mark).
“It was a little bit surprising to see someone on a racing bike – because racing cyclists tend to look after their bikes – wheels are easily damaged on potholes and things”
I agree with you about “the kind of knocks that quality racing bikes can take without falling apart.” However, the teams are the ones picking up the tab for the damage.
@ GIP
Okay, I twice stand corrected. Sorry.
Maybe it is the local terrain where I live (next to Belgium, where most country lanes are just as rough as the Combe d’Ire, but where racing cyclists abound), but I don’t find it strange to take a racing bike on such a road. It is just a question of using somewhat sturdier rims with more than the bare minimum of spokes, plus an appropriate tyre pressure. Anybody who lives and rides in such an area will soon learn to use suitable equipment. The local amateur racing season is in full swing already, and it is always the same scene there: the only people who have trouble with their tyres and wheels are foreigners who don’t know what to expect in terms of road surfaces.
Peter and GIP
Where WBM “must have seen” SM, there was NOT ANY chance he knew SM was heading up the CDI.
Seeing a cyclist in “that” area (on a “professional racing bike”) should not have made WBM state what he has stated UNLESS it was not where WBM sighted SM.
The “story” of that initial sighting therefore has to be questioned OR clarified.
“It was a little bit surprising to see someone on a racing bike – because racing cyclists tend to look after their bikes – wheels are easily damaged on potholes and things”
THAT statement, makes NO SENSE whatsoever, GIVEN where the alleged sighting took place IF when WBM sighted SM they were in Arnand area.
IF however, WBM was “near to” the CDI, then WBM must have been behind AND keeping pace with SM before he entered the CDI …..and SM must have been climbing that route at a SUBSTANTIALLY quicker pace than WBM, for SM to 1. take a phone call and 2. arrive at the Martinet well ahead of WBM.
@ James
IF however, WBM was “near to” the CDI, then WBM must have been behind AND keeping pace with SM before he entered the CDI …..and SM must have been climbing that route at a SUBSTANTIALLY quicker pace than WBM, for SM to 1. take a phone call and 2. arrive at the Martinet well ahead of WBM
Again, I have no problem with that. Unless SM used special shorter “mountain gears” on his bike, he would have been physically unable to cycle as slowly as WBM, whose mountain bike had shorter gearing ratios. Also, WBM talks about looking down at the road in front of him during the climb. I take that to mean that he was already tired at that point. If you have ever done any sports cycling yourself, you will be aware that the neck muscles give out more quickly than the leg muscles when you are knackered, meaning that you end up staring down at your front wheel rather ahead.
It seems to me that the most likely route Sylvain Mollier took ( if it was actually true he was cycling from Ugine),
was West along the cycle track taking the first opportunity to turn left along
Route du Couardet
Route des Cotes
Route d’Arnaud
Route du Moulin
passing the Flat Iron Building
then entering Route Forestiere Domaniale de la Combe d’Ire
if W.B.M. came from his holiday home in Lathuile
Route du Bout du Lac
Route de Marceau
turning right at Marceau Dessous into
Route de la Bornette
Route du Cret
Route de Marceau Dessus turn right into
Route de Chevaline, passing the church
Chemin Rural dit de la Grande Combe
coming down hill to see the disused buildings and spotting Sylvain Mollier joining from the lower road on his left.
FRANCE in Utter Chaos
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36353099
Hundreds of French petrol stations have closed after union protests blocked oil refineries.
Prime Minister Manuel Valls said
“WE HAVE THE SITUATION FULLY UNDER CONTROL”
I wonder why the FRENCH Authorities have not been open with the public about Sylvain Mollier,
what are they trying to obscure?
This should go down quite well in FRANCE
http://www.euronews.com/2016/05/24/imf-urges-france-to-speed-up-reforms-to-create-jobs-and-cut-debt/
“The IMF also recommended in particular tightening rules for receiving unemployment benefits, a move which would likely anger trade unions.
Reduced government is also high on the Fund’s wish list, along with streamlining France’s vast civil service, keeping wage growth in check, raising the retirement age, reducing benefits by making them increasingly handed out based on need, and reining in health spending.”
Still the most likely assassin is William Hershkowitz who went berserk when he realized what he had been put through.
NUCLEAR Finnish EPR: Areva and TVO halt negotiations
Negotiations between Areva and the operator of the Finnish EPR, TVO, which claim huge compensation payment for delays and additional costs of the Olkiluoto site, are now broken, said Thursday the head of TVO who blames the french nuclear group.
“We were negotiating positively for some time and our feeling was that we had found common ground on the key points that we were not far from agreement,” said Jarmo Tanhua in an interview in Helsinki. “That’s why we were a little surprised to learn that a settlement is not possible.”
EPR under construction since 2005
The OL3 EPR called designed and manufactured by Areva and German Siemens Industrial is under construction in Olkiluoto (Southwest Finland) since 2005.
The site has accumulated nine years behind the date of commissioning originally planned under the effect of defects in the structural work and technical and financial disputes with suppliers and customers reciprocally impute responsibility.
The International Chamber of Commerce entry
Already in January, the site had delays caused gray hair Areva, which was in the red for the fifth year of the group. Emmanuel Macron, Economy Minister, had asked both parties adjuster their dispute within a month …
Before their inability to resolve their disputes amicably, Areva and TVO applied to the International Chamber of Commerce in Paris, where both parties are demanding billions of euros in compensation. Meanwhile, they continued to talk until the recent breakdown TVO says.
This divide between TVO and Areva could cost nearly 8 billion euros in the French nuclear group.
http://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2016/05/26/epr-finlandais-areva-et-tvo-stoppent-les-negociations
Seems like Sylvain’s old group are in deep do-do
Peter….
Yes, I accept your “he was knackered, therefore looking down” and I can add, he may have found “comfort” in doing so, having flown “fast jets”…..where you can and do suffer from, what is called “Hawk Neck”, after you finish your Valley (RAF) course (you have to do alot of “looking around” whilst flying and turning)
But….. you still “instinctively” observe. You just do. It’s one of those things you “can’t help” doing.
James
“But….. you still “instinctively” observe. You just do. It’s one of those things you “can’t help” doing.”
Sure, but I suspect that it’s domain specific, or directed. Try a selective attention test – instructions at start of video – don’t scan the rest of the page as you may pick up the answer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
In my humble view, for the matter in hand, the best trained ‘observer’ was the long-served, now-retired, cop, living near the fork in the road at the bottom of the combe.
I think you are on firmer ground with the ‘aviate, navigate, communicate’ dictum. Having attended to the casualties he certainly did attempt to establish communication, and having failed he departed immediately and his first act on meeting a vehicle was to get them to contact the emergency services.
Anyway, some time ago when I was wibbling on about my alternate timeline, you asked me what was the ‘cannon timeline’. From my perspective that would effectively be the Panorama programme, supplemented and updated by Parry.
Pany introduced the ONF1 claim ‘They told me they had passed the motorbike I had passed at place Martinet, two bends further up.’ and Parry reiterated it.
Encore une confirmation de que l’elite se donne le luxe de narguer le monde !
http://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm_gen_cfilm=235734.html
Il faut continuer a chercher le film qui a servi de “storyline” a la tuerie de chevaline !
http://www.20minutes.fr/lyon/1859159-20160605-parapentiste-lyonnais-tue-savoie-chutant-30-metres
CHAMBÉRY Des peines de 29 ans à la perpétuité pour avoir tué un policier de la Bac
Five men were sentenced to prison terms ranging from 29 years imprisonment to life imprisonment Friday by the foundation of Savoy, for fatally crushed in their flight, Cedric Pappatico, a policeman of the Anti-Crime Brigade (Bac) during a burglary in 2012.
Slim Ben Hamed, tried in absentia because Ariania residing in the suburbs of Tunis (Tunisia), was sentenced to life imprisonment, in accordance with the requirements.
Bellakehal Rachid was sentenced to 30 years in prison, as Nabile Medjadji and Mohammed Hamied. Finally, Abbed Kamel, who recognized some burglaries has sentenced him to 29 years (against 30 required).
The five men, aged 31 to 42, were tried for “robbery resulting in death” during a robbery in Darty store in Saint-Alban-Leysse, near Chambéry on the night of April 10 to 11 2012 Aged 32 years and father of a seven year old girl, the sergeant Cedric Pappatico was fatally hit by car criminals. The four men in the box all denied their involvement in the death of the policeman.
In the verdict, shouts erupted in the box and in the courtroom. The police had to master the four convicts who are restless. Relatives of the accused and the civil party have vanished and were supported by firefighters. A police officer had to use his taser to calm near the accused.
The widow of the deceased police officer, Sandrine Pappatico, said it was “satisfied” with the sentences. “Although she has said, this verdict will not bring back my husband. ”
The defense lawyers have appealed in stride.
http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2016/06/10/des-peines-de-29-ans-a-la-perpetuite-pour-avoir-tue-un-policier-de-la-bac
Still waiting for the five persons who shot Nicole Communal-Tournier dead in her home in Lathuile, to be given names and brought to open court?
I can believe that the five persons currently incarcerated, pending trial for the shooting death of Nicole Communal-Tournier, in Lathuile, six days after the release of the E-=FIT-SKETCH
are being held for more than two years because the FRENCH imagine that these persons have committed many crimes, these other crimes need to be accounted for but why after more than than two years, can none of them,
be given names?
GIP
I counted 11 passes (not the full 15) and I saw the gorilla (but only when he was in the middle of the group).
…but I do get what you’re saying. Aviation is littered with “selective attention” moments.
And also “assumed attention” moments (although I have just made that phrase up!) wherein you “expect” something, it doesn’t actually happen…but in recall, you can swear it did happen, because “it always does”.
I have known that happen. Including several “famous” ones. From “mis calculations” in fuel upload, because the “called out” figure is always greeted with a “check” (but in that case wasn’t checked). To aircraft taking off with a cover open…and that was blamed on fatigue, an out of sync check list and a ground call disrupting the crew….. Human’s are completely fallible!
Which brings us back to ONF1.
‘They told me they had passed the motorbike I had passed at place Martinet, two bends further up.’
Now, that is a hell of a statement. Plenty of room to ask, how do you know it was “the same motorbike” or could it be a “very similar, but not the same motorbike”…etc, etc, etc.
With WBM, he has always been “canny” (or “very truthful” or “under instructions not to say”).
In his Panorama interview, when referring to the SAH vehicle, he says (if I recall correctly) something along the lines of “I was passed by the vehicle I now believe to be Al Hilli’s”.
This was “prompted” by the interviewer in answer to her question. I suppose they didn’t want to publish the explanation by WBM of “well, I’m not 100 percent sure, but if there was a BMW Touring up there and it was the only car there and it was the same ish colour to the car that passed me, then….”.and so on.
Two key witnesses….and they (and we) don’t know what they saw (or didn’t).
James
I didn’t see the gorilla !
“Aviation is littered with “selective attention” moments.” – as are the stopways. . .
ONF1’s ‘hell of a statement’ attributes the ‘identification’ to his buddies. Presumably they went along with that. Team Banjo ftw !
I am still mulling your suggestion that the discovery of LMC was a fabrication. I don’t think so but after this length of time I would have thought the gendarmes would have resorted to some kind of subterfuge – and I can’t see anything else relating to core witnesses that is obviously bogus.
Currently I cannot get my alternate timeline to stack up with all actors being accurate, honest and innocent – which is not unexpected. . .
To be clear, my ‘LMC fallout’ speculations were predicated on the discovery of this MC. However if the gendarmes have ‘introduced’ this as some kind of ruse, then I have been talking jive.
Oh Yeah, the interviewer did ‘lead’ WBM because their ‘product’ is watchable TV with clear and succinct dialogue. A pathologically honest interviewee requires ‘guidance’ otherwise it is tedious TV.
Eric Maillaud has apparently been silent for more than a year.
Do we suspect he has been silenced,
he is usually so verbose.
MN
His term limit is fast approaching. Then it is game over for him.
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss. . .
G.I.P. when you type
“game over for him”
are you meaning as in game over for Sylvain Mollier
i.e. eight bullets?
MN
I mean that, to reduce corruption, I understand that the office of ‘le proc’ has a term limit. That is a maximum length of time that an individual can occupy a particular position. The political aspect of the role makes things interesting.
Presumably the intent is to reduce the possibility of le proc getting too cosy with the local police/judiciary/politicos/mob (delete as applicable).
From memory, someone on the fora suggested it was seven years, I thought it was five, but my french is abysmal, so five may be the number of mistresses he may have.
But like I said
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss. . .
A French police commander has been stabbed to death outside his Paris home tonight by an attacker who is now feared to be holding the officer’s wife and son hostage.
Jean-Baptiste Salvaing, 42, suffered nine stomach wounds at a private address in Magnanville, in the Yvelines department, north of Paris, shortly after 8.30pm.
Mr Salvaing, an assistant chief with the judicial police at nearby Mureaux, died at the scene of the crime.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3639878/Policeman-stabbed-death-outside-Paris-home-attacker-holding-officer-s-wife-son-hostage.html#ixzz4BVFnWgLN
Things not getting easier in FRANCE
Yvelines is where the uncle of Clair Schutz hangs out, it is where his mate the top cop got butchered, in his own home –
still no one has been caught?
http://www.leparisien.fr/chambourcy-78240/un-tag-geant-pour-le-jour-anniversaire-de-l-assassinat-de-chambourcy-25-03-2015-4636845.php
Christian Marshall
Strange, this senior policeman, best friend of Pierre Morange( uncle of Claire Schutz of Schutz Morange Pharmacie, Grignon)
who was found stabbed to death in his home nine years ago,
all @they@ have to go on is a single uneXplained DNA sample, taken from the crime scene.
That’s familiar, at the scene of the crime of The Slaughter of the Horses
after four years,
all @they@ have is a single uneXplained DNA sample,
I wonder if these two have been matched?
Perhaps somebody should ask what Jean-Baptiste Salvaing, the senior policeman in Yvelines who was stabbed to death at his home this week,
was working on?
Is this him, in the black hoodie ?
https://3dprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Rocket-lab-257.jpg
Zoom in to center-right of photo, near corner of secret lair.
Apparently the FRENCH AUTHORITIES have recovered one usable human DNA sample from the scene of the Slaughter of the Horses,
which they cannot match to any of the known persons who have been at the site in close time to the murders.
Have they said what ethnicity this DNA represents?
I found this interresting database : guns vs movies
Good Luck !
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Haenel-Schmeisser_MP28/II
Something for the weekend.
Prevention is better than cure, especially when there is no cure, as with murder. So the question I ask myself is whether there were attempts made to prevent the shooting.
One can speculate that someone recognised that a colleague or family member had gone off the reservation. What to do? Warn-off or disrupt seems more sensible than informing the authorities.
Two possibilities strike me, firstly the (unreported) phone call to SM shortly before his arrival at Le Martinet and secondly the MC seen by WBM. That MC seems to me to have started down from place Martinet after SAH had arrived but just before SM arrived. Perhaps the rider saw no need to stick around, on the basis that a car-load of tourists would cause the shooter to abandon any violent confrontation.
Good in Parts, that is very reasonable.
When I started going on about was there more than one motorcyclist ( a long time ago now)
not many people were that interested)
however the multiple motorcyclists may be the key to find the killer/s and hence the motive.
But Mr. Maillaud has not yet publically announced that there were multiple motorcyclist.
This may lead us to believe that Mr.Maillaud has been instructed not to mention the possibility that the motorcyclist
who was eventually discovered but not shown or nammed may not be the same motorcyclist seen by the ascending William Brett Martin, the apparent discoverer of the scene of the Slaughter of the Horses and close neighbour of the shot dead Nicole Communal-Tournier.
There is a difference between sensing that someone has gone off the reservation and being privy to his murderous plans, i. e., knowing the exact time and place where he intends to strike. The examples that you give pertain to the latter category.
The idea that the call to SM might have been a last-minute warning (which was obviously not heeded) is an interesting thought …
Peter
You are quite right.
All I can suggest is that maybe, over a long period of time, the shooter ‘leaked’ little snippets of his obsession to close colleagues, friends or family such that they were able to see ‘the big picture’ of escalation and recognise that, this time, he had actually gone on the warpath.
As to the exact time and place, a generalised threat such as “one day I’m going to follow that nice chap on his fancy velo and have a quiet chat” could give a good starting point to search for him to disrupt his intentions.
My thinking was that if the MC were trying to stage an ‘intervention’ he would simply follow SM, overtaking in the combe to see who was up ahead. After heading back down because tourists arrived, one explanation of his suspicious slow-riding could be that he assumed that the shooter had not been at place Martinet but rather was waiting in ambush somewhere on the way down.
I still like your ‘drop-in centre’ concept and wonder whether it could have been a factor. In this scenario he goes to the chemist to collect his meds and have a nice chat only to be told by another assistant that the new hubby had called her home so he could go out on his fancy velo….
Here’s the thing… he has been off his meds for a long long time, the only reasons he collects them is for a nice chat and to seem like he is adhering to his treatment plan. The meds only fog his head and stop him seeing clearly those acting against him and how to stop them.
@ GIP
Even in a small provincial town such as Ugine, there will be an efficient black market for psychopharmacologic drugs. Thus, over and above the opportunity of a regular nice chat at the local pharmacy, a psychiatric outpatient who does not take his medications stands to earn at least an extra € 50 or so a month, which is a lot of money for an unemployed person. It can mean the difference between enforced abstinence and being able to smoke or drink.
The killer being a psychiatric outpatient would also explain why nobody would have acted on any “generalised threats” that he might have uttered: coming from a sane person, such threats would probably have been taken seriously. At least post-hoc, they would have provided a clear line of inquiry for the police. However, coming from somebody in the habit of threatening half the inhabitants of the known universe, they would have been quickly dismissed and forgotten.
Getting back on his meds immediately after the deed might further explain the otherwise inexplicable post-offence behaviour (if we assume that the offender was a local): a powerful anxiolytic would have rendered him a happy-go-lucky chap seemingly without a care in the world, the complete opposite of what one would expect someone with a multiple homicide on his conscience to behave like.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tefal
this is worth a read, it involves corruption, undue pressure and a close friend of Eric Maillaud
however I can’t fully understand, it seems Eric is playing the ball, who is his friend, rather than the game.
michael norton
Yep, it is interesting but as far as I can see unrelated to the murders. A while ago the case-file was posted on-line (in french) and out of interest I waded through it.
Here’s the skinny:- insider leaks emails and claims whistleblower status and protection but gets soundly spanked for his trouble. Quelle surprise.
What could be the reasoning behind the French Authorities not being clear ( to the public)
on how many motor cycles / motor cyclists were up the come round about the time of the Slaughter of the Horses?
It would be astonishingly easy for Eric Maillaud to either say
1) there was only ever one motorcycle and one motorcyclist up the Comb of Ire at the relevant time of the Slaughter of the horses, that person has been found and he has been eliminated from our enquiries, this is the person from whom we have derived the E-FIT-SKETCH, to be clear, that person on that motorcycle was the same person William Brett Martin saw ascending, just before W.B.M. discovered the horror scene.
This ( as yet unnamed and unseen by the public) motorcyclist has convinced us that he never saw any shooting or dead bodies and he does not remember seeing W.B.M. either,
he just does not remember much at all but we completely believe he is telling us the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
2)
we now think there were at least two different motorcyclists up the Comb of Ire at the relevant time of
the Slaughter of the Horses. The man who we have identified,
who we believe is completely innocent of any involvement whatsoever
and the man who was slowly riding down the comb as William Brett Martin was ascending.
We have yet to identify that second motorcyclist.
We really want the public to help us and identify that second motorcyclist as we now believe he may have been involved in the slaughter.
We have only collected one human DNA sample from Le Martinet area that we have been, so far, unable to reconcile with any of the persons, known to have been at the slaughter scene.
It is therefore reasonable to conclude that the recovered DNA may belong to this second
motorcyclist.
so you can see if you follow police argument 1) the unknown person DNA is likely to be the walk-off killer
if you follow police argument 2) the DNA could either be from the second motorcyclist or the walk-off killer.
michael norton
The key point for a motorcycle theorist like myself is the testimony of Claude Antoine “two mobylettes and a car” plus the assumption that LMC rode up via Chevaline.
Other options include Janin and/or la Combette but the above sightings are top of the list for me. Also the murderer likely walked part of the way, in my humble view.
Quite why our Eric does what he does is opaque to me but SSMCT realised what he was like. At the last minute they even baulked at signing the joint enquete, as Parry makes clear.
They knew the risks… but in the end they signed anyway.
It would be interesting to read that particular document. Did it give EM full access to the UK Police investigation results into the Al Hilli family without any constraint on him releasing irrelevant but embarrasing personal details ?
He may shoot from the lip but who gave him the bullets ?
Peter
So, using his own meds for the purpose they were intended for…
My understanding is that there can be a time lag before some of these drugs kick-in. Thinking back, the gendarmes did take a while before they started seriously searching for someone with that sort of profile, thus it is possible.
I hope the prescriptions issued by the pharmacy were reviewed and the staff questioned regarding any customers who came in, then departed without a prescription or in a huff.
As an aside, a factoid that has been mentioned on the france2 forums but one I have not seen in UK media, is that the gendarmerie had requisitioned the till-rolls of a number of local businesses for two full days (the day of the murders and the previous day).
It was suggested that these businesses were garages etc. and thay they were looking for somewhere where the MC (and/or X5) may have refueled.
@ GIP
Antipsychotics take a long time to kick in, but anxiolytics work instantly, as soon as the substance enters one’s bloodstream. For many years, I used to be extremely afraid of flying and would take them before every flight. I owe my membership of the mile-high club to these pills 😉
The thing is, by switching off one’s sense of fear, they are very disinhibiting, inasmuch as they also switch off any fears of social opprobrium or negative consequences. With a large enough dose, one would laugh death in the face. For instance, IS fighters take them before they go into battle; IS probably owes more battlefield successes to these pills (supplied by Saudi Arabia) than to the religious fervour of their fighters.
Returning to the case in hand, anxiolytics could not only have enabled the killer’s calm post-offence behaviour, but also facilitated the murders themselves, leaving the killer literally not caring whether he killed one or six people, keeping his hands steady and his aim true.
Peter
“winning handgunners get looped up before they shoot. It helps ’em to concentrate”
You just couldn’t make this stuff up, without chemical help anyway… http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/06/24/demon-rum-and-charles-askins/
I dunno though, my feeling is that the shooter ‘got his gun on’ as they say. That is he was more at the fired-up end of the spectrum than the zen-like-calm end. My guess would be that early in the ‘mad minute’ the shooter got enraged, possibly by a minor injury or just by the frustration of losing control.
One option is that SM used his velo as a weapon and threw it at the shooter, possibly knocking the pistol out of his hand. Another option is that he had to dive out of the way as SAH reversed.
We were never, ever shown a photograph of the bicycle that Sylvain Mollier rode up the Combe of Ire, that day.
I have always wondered why we were not allowed to see it, I had assumed because it was a mountain bike, and the narrative was that it was a new, high end racing bike.
If it had been a mountain bike it could be that either Sylvain had come over the top from Grignon, or he was going over the top back to Grignon.
We also have not been allowed to know from where Sylvain set off, on his last cycle ride.
There is an awful lot about the life and times of Sylvain Mollier that we have not been allowed to know?
@ GIP
By “anxiolytics”, I meant antidepressants of the kind used to treat anxiety disorders including PTSD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricyclic_antidepressant
I strongly suspect that these formed part of Menegaldo’s prescription.
They don’t have any sedative effects (at least they are not supposed to if tolerated well) and thus do not induce a Zen-like-calm. Some of them even rev users up, making them feel more energetic, vigilant and active. Primarily, however, they dispel fear and thus also inhibitions. They would not stop anyone from falling into violent rage or starting a fight. On the contrary, they would let the person act out that violent rage without fear of negative consequences for himself or the victim(s). Think Dutch courage without the loss of coordination, slow reflexes and general muddle-headedness. Many people who are seriously into recreational violence (football hooligans, outlaw bikers etc.) take these pills because, if someone is aggressive to start with, they will turn him into a fearless, merciless human pit bull. That is why there is such an active black market for them.
Peter,
we have been told that Patrice Menegaldo was innocent.
I wonder if Patrice Menegaldo owned or had the use of a motorcycle.
His flat in Ugine overlooked the cycle track.
Peter
Other options that could have got the shooter fired-up include the velo as a weapon dislodging his mask if one were worn. Alternately the bicycle pump could have been used as a weapon.
However, I am not sure that there has been anything definitive from the investigation regarding any mask or headgear being worn. One can speculate that someone who had gone to significant lengths to confront and attack SM (if indeed he were the target) in such an inaccessible location may have wanted SM to know who was attacking him and why. Thus he may have worn a lightweight, easily removable, paper mask or indeed no mask at all.
In my favoured scenario, the shooter did not know that the BMW estate was parked in the corner, or if he were aware of it, he thought it empty.
If he wore no mask or it was knocked off and he had been seen previously by the SAH party, then he might have simply gone berserk. The appalling atack on Zainab makes some kind of sense in this context.
Peter
Another thought on the pharmaceutical front, this is la france profonde not les banlieue, so your putative “efficient black market for psychopharmacologic drugs” might focus on misappropriating cattle tranquilisers or horse tranquilisers.
Do we know if there were any thruths
in the various personas of Patrice Menegaldo.
Fireman
Foreign Legion
Parachutist
Special Services
friend of Sylvain Mollier
lover of the sister of Sylvain Mollier
friend of the family Schutz ( of Schutz-Morange Pharmacie)
Iqbal is a male name …
http://www.behindthename.com/name/iqbal
http://www.prenomsarabes.com/prenom-arabe-garcon/lettre-i/
Bacchus, I think that is the first time anyone has pointed this out.
What do you imagine is the significance to The Slaughter of the Horses Massacre?
I imagine that is an unusual name for a female …
http://prenom-musulman.com/signification/ikbal/
I imagine that the name we need to find is french…
My neighbour is a pakistani muslim and I ask him if Iqbal is a male or female first name, he confirmed that is a male first name, only male.
goodinparts:
is your meaning
the shootist was FRENCH?
Really pathetic after 209 pages, you are trying to make out that the assassinated Mrs. Iqbal al-Hilli is a male!
I don’t understand how Craig allows this nonsense to continue.
No doubt that is a female, but is first name is male. Nothing with nonsense ! …
… And now Craig is more preoccupied with the scottish independence !
Oh, so the al-Hillis have been forgotten about.
Could it be a fine dividing line such as:
Hilary Benn
Hillary Clinton
but there is also:
Hilary Duff who is a female actor,
confusing
transgender toilets anyone?
So the possible “agent” Iqbal is a woman but has the name of a man?
The “mother” of Iqbal is not shown in any known photographs, even though they were together on holiday,
yet other photographs have been released?
The girls did not know who the older woman was?
The “husband” of Iqbal “died” on the same day as the Slaughter of the Horses Massacre but on a different continent?
No recent photographs of Sylvain Mollier have been published?
No photograph of the bicycle Sylvain Mollier was riding has been published?
The place from where Sylvain set off on his last cycle ride has been kept secret?
The place Sylvain and Claire were living has been kept secret?
The name of the employer of Sylvain has been shrouded in mystery, as was the nature of his work,
as was the nature of his lay-off-retention?
If you think there is a miasma that envelopes almost every fraction of this story,
why would that be, it is not, surely because it happened in France, even they are not that stupid.
michael norton
Do they still have sewing-in day up in the montagnes, or is it an all-year-round thing up there ?
Could be that. And the garlic !
Almost certainly not connected but another mayor has fallen of a cliff
http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2016/07/11/jean-claude-trichot-second-adjoint-au-maire-est-decede
It’s a shock to the small town of Montendry: Jean-Claude Trichot accidentally died yesterday afternoon. Second deputy mayor Jacqueline Schenkl, in charge of the work, this man of 71 years has decided to voluntarily go to the place of ditchcleaning site embarked on the road called “Fort Montgilbert” two kilometers -Dessus the town hall.
Significant resources mobilized
Volunteer service to his town, the elected wished to lend a hand to the municipal technician. It is posted it on his own at the end of a nozzle overlooking a steep slope. That’s when, unbalanced or slipping on materials, he fell 200 meters.
Significant resources have been mobilized immediately. Rescuers centers of Saint-Pierre-d’Albigny, Aiguebelle and Albertville, mountain rescue and the gendarmes of La Rochette have unfortunately could only find a dead body. This is the Dragon helicopter Civil Security which would then carry the remains in a nearby mortuary center. Jean-Claude Trichot was on his second municipal mandate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Trichet
Jean-Claude Trichet (French: [ʒɑ̃ klod tʁiʃɛ]; born 20 December 1942) is a French civil servant, who was the president of the European Central Bank from 2003 to 2011. He is also a member of the Board of Directors of the Bank for International Settlements. In 2008, Trichet ranked fifth on Newsweek’s list of the world’s most powerful along with economic triumvirs Ben Bernanke (fourth) and Masaaki Shirakawa
Probably a different geezer.
Another family attacked in the Alps. A mother and her three daughters were stabbed by a Moroccan man who was staying at the same resort. The man, from the Paris area, didn’t like shorts.
The moon is full tonight.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/19/woman-daughters-stabbed-wearing-shorts-tshirts-alps-resort-france
France’s National Assembly votes to extend state of emergency in wake of Nice attack
http://www.france24.com/en/20160720-france-national-assembly-votes-extend-state-emergency-wake-nice-attack
France’s National Assembly voted in the early hours of Wednesday to extend the country’s state of emergency for six months following last week’s massacre in Nice.
The state of emergency has been in place since the Paris attacks in November, and the extension would see the measures — which give the police extra powers to carry out searches and place people under house arrest — remain in place until the end of January 2017.
It is the fourth time that parliament has proposed prolonging the state of emergency, and the move now needs to be approved by the Senate.
President Francois Hollande had last Thursday announced a plan to lift the emergency secuirty measures, but changed tack hours later after a truck driver ploughed through a crowd at Bastille Day celebrations in Nice, killing 84 people in an attack later claimed by the Islamic State group.
‘Live with the threat’
French Prime Minister Manuel Valls warned Tuesday that the country must be prepared for more deadly attacks and will have to
“learn to live with the threat”.
Valls has been rubbished by the people for that statement.
Man knifes mother and three daughters at French holiday park
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36837108
A woman and her three daughters have been attacked by a knife-wielding man at a holiday camp in the south of France, French media report.
All four were wounded, and the youngest of the victims was given emergency surgery because of her wounds.
A man, 37, was arrested trying to leave the scene in a vehicle after the attack, which happened around 09:30 local time (07:30 GMT) near Sisteron.
Local prosecutor Raphael Balland said the motive was still “very vague”.
The mother, 46, and her daughters aged eight, 12 and 14 were regular visitors to the holiday camp at Garde-Colombe and had been having breakfast when they came under attack. All four were taken to hospital and the youngest suffered a punctured lung, reports said.
According to authorities, the suspect in custody was of Moroccan origin and had been staying on the site with his own family next door to the victims.
Although he had been in trouble with police many years ago, reports said there was no indication of a religious link to the case.
Unconfirmed reports suggested he had objected to the light clothing worn by his victims but Mr Balland said “it’s all rumour, the man’s not said anything”.
The Horror in France continues, the state of emergency continues.
meanwhile in the United Kingdom we have seamlessly voted for BREXIT, we have seamlessly changed administration and unemloyment has dropped to 4.9 which is a lot less than half of what it is in FRANCE
The UK unemployment rate has fallen to 4.9%, the lowest since July 2005, according to official figures.
I conclude FRANCE is in very very deep trouble
It is entirely possible that the next government of France will be the National Front. If that happens, there may well be de facto civil war in France. It has almost happened before, over Algeria during the Fourth Republic.
A P08 variant in 7.65 calibre that I had never heard of.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/21/potd-before-steam-punk-there-was-the-luger-p08-nachtpistole/
On my “like a film” storyline theory, P06 is a code.
Supporting the bogus timeline.
By now I hope most accept that the claim that ONF2 saw the same MC as ONF1 ‘ten minutes later’ was wrong and the timeline based on this was bogus.
It seems that the ONF2 timing was derived by literally pivoting around the ONF1 sighting. This makes a certain amount of sense in that the reverse (pulling ONF1 ten minutes before the claimed ONF2 timeslot) yields an ONF1 timing of approx 15:05 which prima facie would be too early.
Thus we get the timeline as presented by Panny and NE :-
15:25 ONF1 start descent from Martinet parking
15:35 ONF2 start descent from Martinet parking
15:40 SAH arrival
15:45 WBM arrival
15:48 emergency call
One element has been puzzling me is the timing of the emergency call. Initially the time was stated to be 15:48 and was attributed to WBM by Eric Maillaud. This time was even stated to be a failed call attempt by WBM in the account by Parry.
This timing for the emergency call effectively ‘supported’ the ONF swap and pivot.
Eventually the ‘chronodate’ of 15:44:59 surfaced for the call made by PB at the request of WBM.
Why was the timing of this call, shall we say, ‘obscured’ ?
And who really benefited from the ONF swap and pivot. ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3712208/I-didn-t-birth-DEVIL-ISIS-priest-butcher-s-mother-says-wasn-t-jihadi-police-notes-scrawled-Arabic-bedroom-family-home-French-Alps.html
Aix le Bains, Savoie
one of the priest slaughterers comes from Aix le Bains, Savoie
about ten miles from the site of the killing of Sylvain Mollier & the Al-Hilli family
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Normandy_church_attack#Perpetrators
both perpetrators had tried to get to SYRIA.
This is the first time that a Christian priest has been killed in a church in Europe.
They knifed him on the alter shouting “Allahu Akbar”
“Why was the timing of this call, shall we say, ‘obscured’ ? ”
If I remember it right BM made some reported comment that when he was at the police station they said they were already aware of trouble in the hills I think the line was “murderous activity” before the phone call, not sure how that fits in .
If true it has to be someone close enough to know something is going on – The Victims – ONF-GG-SM-Unknown witness – I would include PD/PB and friends as it’s unclear if they were on foot or in a vehicle, a quote attributed to PD said on foot but was reported as bike and vehicle in different places .
Some thoughts I also had was that the call between SM and LR may have played a part did SM alert LR to trouble ahead and tell her to ring for help.
Pink
Why was the timing of this call, shall we say, ‘obscured’ ?
Thinking about it, the ‘chronodate’ was more than just obscured, it was fabricated and misattributed by none other than Eric Maillaud.
If WBM had not baulked at Eric’s nonsense and had the strength of character to publicly repudiate his misattribution, then we would not know better.
Eric’s statement seems to me to have been deliberate. It occured right at the start of the investigation when the case-file was still very thin and easy to assimilate. In my view this was no misreading, this was no mistake.
To be sure, he may have had a ‘good’ reason from his perspective (some have been suggested previously) but overall the effect was to poison the evidentiary well. The subsequent interviews with locals at the weekend were effectively ‘influenced’ by his pronouncements.
No wonder Eric had a problem with the timing as given by WBM.
Pink, I seem to remember the phrase you quoted “murderous activity” but in a different context, that of a convo between the Durchers and the emergency services who had been alerted via radionet. I shall look it up later and get back to you.
I think we need to know why the whole PD/PB stuff happened at all there has to be a reason, my gut says thats where the tweaking happened sadly I am not smart enough to work out why .