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8,070 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis continued”

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  • Reply ↓
    Good In Parts

    M.

    Re shot distance – there are issues such as tumbling of a bullet that are affected by residual spin rate and velocity – but they are more relevant to rifles.

    In this case the shortest range was say 1 meter and the longest range approx 8m. In my view there would be minimal differences in terminal effects due to the additional 7m.

    Firing at an angle through the thicker laminated front windscreen would probably have the most effect on a bullet.

  • Reply ↓
    Good In Parts

    M.

    “Saad told neighbours and apparently friends he feared for his life before he left, he also feared for family in Iraq – I cannot envisage that worry came from his brothers shenanigans over number 26.”

    I cannot find a reference to his fearing for family in Iraq. Do you remember where this was from?

    That kind of reach may imply a more organised threat than a family feud.

    SAH got help recovering some property during a visit to Iraq. We never did discover the source of the help, nor the price. . .

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    Of course as this unnamed motorcycling entrepreneur lives so close by and as he is completely without involvement in The Slaughter of the Horses and as his only purpose in being in the Bauges was for parapenting, some might think it strange, if he missed it.

  • Reply ↓
    Q

    http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=31161

    “As French police searched for a motive for the bloodbath, one of Mr al-Hilli’s neighbours revealed the businessman admitted he feared for his safety in the weeks leading up to the killing.

    Jack Saltman, 67, said Mr al-Hilli mentioned “two or three times” over the last two months something which gave him “cause for concern”.

    He added: “He had family in Iraq and I know he was worried about their safety and spoke to them on the phone.””

    Cryptogon says Saltman’s comments were reported in the Mirror.

  • Reply ↓
    Q

    Some of the early articles have disappeared behind a pay wall. Maybe that’s to encourage readers to buy the books that various journalists peddle, where they can find it all laid out. Anything for a buck.

  • Reply ↓
    Good In Parts

    Mr Juicy

    Here is a DM link where SAH is described as being known to British intelligence for around 20 years. It also mentions the surveillance operation suring the recent gulf war.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2198777/French-Alps-shooting-Police-question-Saad-Al-Hillis-brother-Zaid-inheritance-row.html

    M.and Q

    Thanks for the reference to SAH being worried about family in Iraq. Personally I have difficulty in seeing Zaid as being involved in plotting violence against family members in Iraq.

    So, unless the neighbour (or reporter) had conflated two issues, then maybe SAH had conflated a real (but anonymous) threat from another source with the intractable feud he was having with his brother.

    If family in Iraq were actually in receipt of threats then it could be an issue of ‘family honour’ as advocated by Peter.

  • Reply ↓
    Good In Parts

    MN & M.

    “The Slaughter of the Horses has nothing whatsoever to do with Zaid al-Hili”

    I agree.

    “MN, there is only one man who could be sure of that and that is Zaid Al-Hilli”

    Sure, Zaid will have ‘privileged knowledge’ however detectives will have deconstructed his life, focusing in on the months leading up to the murders in question.

    I think that by now, the head of Surrey and Sussex Major Crime Team has a very high degree of confidence that Zaid neither comissioned nor carried out these murders.

    Part of the investigation has been carried out here in the UK, with significant resources being allocated to it. The last media reference stated that about the same number of officers were still investigating this crime in the UK as in France.

    Anyway, given his disclosures to his neighbour, the question arises as to why SAH came to believe that his life was in danger.

    As I posted earlier, maybe SAH had conflated a real (but anonymous or unspecific) threat from another source with the ongoing dispute he was having with his brother.*

    The threat would have had to be reasonably convincing and given that he told a friend or neighbour that he expected to be “shot at his door” and also owned a bullet proof vest, then my best guess would be something like someone posting live rounds to his house.

    The timeframe of the disclosures to the neighbours seems to have been in the months prior to the camping holiday. It would be interesting to trace all his inbound calls looking for ones that could have been anonymous and/or threatening.

    (*)Although there were other elements, it seems that the core issue was that SAH ‘understood’ that the Claygate house had been left completely to him on the death of his mother. This seems not to have actually been the case.

  • Reply ↓
    Mr Juicy

    @ Good in Parts

    Re SAH’s intelligent links. Thanks. Yes, the media is full of this stuff, but I would like to see an “official” perspective, and CM’s comment, quoting intelligence sources, is the only one I know of. I assume that SAH did indeed have intelligence links, but the nature and extent of these links are mostly conjecture. Unfortunately we usually have to rely on the reports of journalists who need a good story, talking to neighbours who want their 5 minutes of fame. And we can only speculate on whether these links had anything to do with his death.

    Re the Luger. Yes, not loading the magazines to full capacity would make complete sense, given the risk of jamming. And of course M. is right that each cartridge has a maximum capacity of 8, plus one in the gun – I wrongly counted the one in the gun 3 times. The likely number of bullets is therefore 25. Your theory about the provenance and condition of the gun is entirely plausible. Personally I would have thought the killer would have cleaned and tested it before using it on his intended victim(s). But who knows for sure.

    Re SM’s route. I guess you are right that the killer could have followed and predicted the route that SM would have taken. I certainly don’t buy the idea that he was lost, despite what his family members have claimed. More likely they have at least an inkling of why he was killed but do not want to say.

  • Reply ↓
    Q

    It is very clear that the family of SM does not want to say anything. They did not want his photo released, and they most certainly do not want to talk about Patrice.

    Zaid has spoken. Saad’s family and friends have spoken. The family of Iqbal has not spoken, to my knowledge. The dentist she worked with spoke highly of her. Saad’s friend Gary and the Thompson family spoke of her. Obviously, Iqbal’s sister has double grief, and the children to consider, children who to this day are under guard.

    We’ve looked at what we know, which is very little. What don’t we know? A lot. The thing that stands out in all this is the complete silence of SM’s family. Why is this? If he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and nothing more, why didn’t they want his photo released? Is it because he, like his sister’s boyfriend, was also in the FFL? Was he doing something that his photo would have exposed? We have heard nothing about the family of SM being under guard. So can we assume that whatever he was doing ended that day, unlike what is happening to the little al-Hilli girls?

    Even in cases of murder involving known drug dealers, the family says something, quite often. They give photos to the media. They seem to feel a need to talk about the things they could not control.

    SM’s family? Nothing. That is what stands out.

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    Part of this enduring mystery has to do with the secrecy in France.
    Why wait 14 months before issuing a “sketch” of the motorcyclist,
    who it has been reported
    spoke with the forest guys?

    The young soldier-medic who went missing, had his car and number plate shown, his picture and his name revealed, almost straight away, he was later found dead in the Maurienne valley.

    Yet two and a half years after the Slaughter of the Horses
    no recent picture of Sylvain Mollier?

    Why no photograph of the bicycle that Sylvain was riding, that day.
    If it was a mountain bike, then he could of been on a round trip, continuing on mountain tracks, if on an expensive road bike, he would not?
    Why not say, from where Sylvain took his leave from Claire and departed that day,
    if from the Pharmacie Schutz-Morange, adjacent to the Sapeurs-Pompiers, where I believe they were then living, , diferent interpretations may be drawn, than if they were living in his house in Ugine
    but I do notthink we have been told specifics?

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    Savoie Police getting jumpy

    The state will finance the acquisition of 60 bulletproof vests for the municipal police of Savoy. The interministerial committee for crime prevention has awarded a grant of 15,000 euros for the acquisition of these vests. This exceptional grant, awarded after a call for proposals launched in March by the interministerial committee for the prevention of delinquency, can finance 50% of the purchase of equipment, up to 250 euros a vest.

    http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2015/06/05/des-gilets-pare-balles-pour-les-policiers-municipaux

  • Reply ↓
    M.

    ‘I think that by now, the head of Surrey and Sussex Major Crime Team has a very high degree of confidence that Zaid neither comissioned nor carried out these murders.’

    Good in parts, the same can be said about the Schutz, Mollier family and the respective officers in FRANCE. Same applies to Brett Martin, Eric Devouassoux and since June of last year Patrice Menegaldo.

    The Press reported the Mollier/Schutz phones were tapped for six months after the murders.

    Dario Zanni, the Swiss Prosecutor said the Swiss Mobile phone numbers pinged in the area were tapped and usage looked at retrospectively.

    As for the no photo, not speaking to the Press, they are not compulsed to do so, not sure the British gabbing to the Press have been so helpful, maybe they just wanted their 15 minutes of fame, it has caused a great deal of confusion.

    And that is without the strange past of Ikbal Al-Saffar.

  • Reply ↓
    James

    Leaving aside “random killer” or “primary target”….
    …how did the killer enter and exit the Martinet car park ?

    There is “one” officially known “undiscovered” vehicle, that being the famous “RHD BMW X5” (which was only sighted by one person…and which “believed”, by that person, to have escaped unseen on a most “unlikely” route).

    Clearly these murders were “premeditated” (random or otherwise) and as such would have required a degree of planning. So an “entry” and an “exit” passage must have been “pre planned”.

    If we assume a RHD BMW X5 did actually ascend the Combe D’Ire route AND reached the Martinet car park (and it contained the killer), why did it escape via the “a cross the hills and far away” route ? Afterall, WBM claims he did not see this vehicle (ascending or descending).

    It surely has to exist….as if it didn’t, instant suspicion would be placed upon ONF1 (and ONF2/the biker…as they would have had to have seen the bodies of the victims as they passed through the crime scene).

    The biker (now cleared of all suspicion) I believe was discovered much earlier than “indicated” by Eric. He would have had to have “signed on” to his course he was to undertake (there are insurance agreements and such which require such formalities) and so he would be “known” pretty much “early on” by investigators.

    The fallacy that “even the French” couldn’t find such a person, is beyond belief (especially after such a long time frame).

    So what is it that the investigators are doing ? What is their “game plan”.

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    @ James, in a nutty shell, you have the point.

    What is it the FRENCH are up to,
    which organization are they protecting.
    Either it’s NATO
    or it is a FRENCH organization.

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