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We know that Camping Ideal, Lathuile,
is neither of the two campsites that the family al-Hilli were staying,
this holiday, September 2012.
However,
do we know if they have stayed at Camping Ideal, Lathuile
on a previous occasion?
Do we know if either Nicole or Jean-Paul Communal-Tournier had interests at either of the two campings that the family al-Hilli had been staying, pror to their slaughter?
From Bluebird 22/11/2013
I surely believe that it should be significant that Jean Paul Communal-Tournier was responsible for the forestry workers of that region due to his position in the municipality of Lathuile-Doussard.
Jean Paul is the husband of now killed Nicole Tournier.
Could we ask the legit question about what jean paul perhaps knew about his own local forestry workers what he better shouldnt know?
“As I pointed out a few days ago, Elisabeth Mollier from Lathuile was married to Maurice Communal from Lathuile. Their son is Guy Communal from Lathuile.
Elisabeth Mollier died in 2004.
So there is – without any doubts – a family link between Mollier and Communal.
On the other hand, we know as a matter of fact that in many small alpine villages kind of imbreeding was common and most families living there will be sooner or later relatives of each other. Therefore i dont find it to be surprising that molliers and communals were intermarried in lathuile, too.”
@GIP
I always wonder how the killer got there….and then escaped.
Did the police know the ID of the biker earlier and were trying to link him with their “no one suspect”. Just a thought. Just pure speculation.
After the “number one suspect” blew his head off… the police then revealed they had tracked down the biker (coincidence ?). Again, just pure speculation.
I wonder if William Brett Martin, ever walked up to Camping Ideal for a chat, he might have met up with Nicole & Jean-Paul Communal Tournier, be strange if he never did
but perhaps Eric Devouassoux also walked along to Camping Ideal, all of them could have been chatting together< cosy?
By the way, the “biker from Lyon”….
….was from Lyon. Doesn’t mean he lives there now. I suspect the description “from Lyon” is to keep everyone off his back.
Taking a short cut up the Combe D’Ire route, places him as “fairly local”.
MN, there are many Molliers, who no doubt way back are related to one another, many in Notre Dame de Bellecombe, http://www.geneanet.org/search/?name=MOLLIER&country=FRA®ion=RAL&subregion=F73&place=Notre-Dame-de-Bellecombe%2C%2B73186&ressource=arbre
Bluebird countered the comment with this ‘On the other hand, we know as a matter of fact that in many small alpine villages kind of imbreeding was common and most families living there will be sooner or later relatives of each other. Therefore i dont find it to be surprising that molliers and communals were intermarried in lathuile, too.’
Jean-Paul Communal-Tournier was/is responsible for woodland in some form on the local council, he was not/is not responsible for the forestry workers, they are governement employees.
James, Menegaldo is only the Number One suspect in the mind of Tom Parry. Great way to sell a book, the original precis focused on the motorcyclist ! He needed another come and get me, read all about it angle.
One source writes the man who originates from Lyon, was found via his phone records and then his Vehicle Licence. So, they were tying up phones and Motorcyle owners, which is admirable but assumes the motorcycle was not stolen, well they have to start somewhere.
The Gendarmes are happy they have found the man in the sketch.
@ M
I’m afraid “not so”.
The Parry book was one thing. Eric statements are another.
Eric had questioned the ex Legionnaire previously (that is fact).
Eric researched him further after his “untimely” demise (apparent fact).
The findings of Eric’s research are “said to be nothing”. But like everything in this investigation, we’ll never know (for the time being).
I said that as….
1. Eric had to release the photo-fit of the biker…as the BBC were about to broadcast a programme on television in which an ONF worker confirmed that another ONF unit had spoken to this biker.
2. Eric had to release the fact they were looking for a BMW X5..as the BBC were about to broadcast a programme on television in which an ONF worker confirmed he had seen a RHD BMW X5.
His had has continuously been played. He is playing “catch up” all the time.
So…. did Parry “mention” he would be “naming the ex Legionnaire” as “suspect number one in his book ? After all, books take longer to publish than “the daily news”.
Sure…. Parry has to sell books. But SURE Eric doesn’t want to be seen as “completely incompetent”.
1. The biker was known (or it was common knowledge that the ONF unit had spoken directly to them…and could ID him).
2. The investigation knew there “could be” a BMW X5 in the area. They knew it had been seen (by just one person).
3. The “ex Legionnaire” was “high on the suspect list”…. BEFORE his death (hence the questioning) and AFTER his death (hence the “re examination”).
You try to “play down” these facts (timeline facts) as if you’re trying to “place in the mind of the posters” Eric is doing a good job).
I say…. The french team know “way more” than they are cracking on about. This is CLEAR when you realise Eric has been playing “catch up” EVERYTIME the media release to the public a “new element” of the investigation.
Conspiracy :
All of you know that SAH was a Hacker.
He managed to enter the US strategic sites with EADS passwords.
“retribution” say the Qureysh !
Shifting gears for a moment, you don’t suppose Sylvain Mollier bought his expensive bike at Sam’s Bikes?
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-kerry-bicycle-20150318-story.html
http://www.samsbike.ch/2nd_Hands/2nd_Hands.html
Expensive bikes sold here.
It is worth noting that John Kerry notified local officials (see bold type for link) of his cycling plans on the day of his fall. No reporters were with his entourage at the time. They found out 90 minutes later.
Some of the regulars here might find a way to tell us more about the “local officials”, and whether any familiar connections to other towns in the alps arise.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/01/opinions/vox-john-kerry-broken-leg/
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/not-forgetting-the-al-hillis-continued/comment-page-2/
See Bluebird’s comments about Cluses, which is seven minutes away from Scionzier. This is the area where John Kerry was injured. No press were riding with the bicycle entourage, so I guess we don’t know precisely where the fall occurred.
Bluebird, do you think some of the fledglings are returning to the nest?
On page 70 of “The KGB’s Poison Factory”, it says that Limarev studied Farsi at Moscow University. Limanov, Limarev — both are used for the same man.
John Kerry just happened to pick a portion of the Tour de France that started in Cluses/Scionzier, where this character lived or lives. And Kerry was in talks with Iran.
James
There was more than one sighting of the RHD BMW 4×4
It was seen by another witness, a retired police officer, in Chevaline or one of the nearby villages.
In addition, it also apparently has been found on some video footage. Interestingly, it apparently had two occupants.
You wrote upthread “I always wonder how the killer got there….and then escaped.”
As do we all. Currently the RHD BMW 4×4 is my first guess and on foot my second.
It has occurred to me that we may have focussed in on too tight a time period. If, say, somebody overheard the discussion at the campsite reception as to where was suitable to go for a walk (which took place approx noon), then they could have easily got to Le Martinet a good two hours early.
I wonder how many other vehicles used the combe from say 1pm to 3pm.
Similarly, if someone had infered the pre-plan of SM as he left Ugine then they could have got quite a march on him.
The ‘spare’ time could have been used to allow for a park-and-walk approach.
Bacchus
SAH was a Hoarder not a Hacker.
The choice of the northern route to climb the Col de la Colombière is a challenging one, even for a fit 71-year-old.
http://www.cycling-challenge.com/col-de-la-colombiere-both-sides-and-col-romme/
There are steep grades and wind. The route from the south is easier, various websites say. A Kiwi cycling tour company has posted the route on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDGOaHOkXO8
What was the route taken by the al-Hillis from/to Geneva? Did they pass through Ambilly or Annemasse? Annemasse is the centre of the casino scandal (Charles Pasqua). Ambilly is the bordering town, former home to a figure from the Litvinenko poisoning case. Armed casino robberies are growing problem in Annemasse.
https://limarev.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/dauphine-libere-04-02-07-la-verite-devgueni-limarev/
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/france/le-casino-d-annemasse-victime-d-un-braquage_715835.html
Allegations of a smuggling business, where Muslims paid cash. A single-vehicle car accident in Northern France explained:
http://www.thekomisarscoop.com/2006/12/poisoned-russian-linked-to-investigation-of-possible-bribes-by-ex-yukos-official/
I watched Alexander Cartier’s excellent YouTube videos re-creating a journey by car and by motorbike from the vicinity of Chevalines to the murder spot and the environs further up the hill.
My immediate reaction: why on earth would SAH choose to take his large vehicle up this narrow, pothole filled road, at times bordering dangerously close to the river, with (as far as I could see) fairly nondescript views on either side, or views blocked for the most part by trees? If the objective was to “go for a walk”, what an unsuitable place to take two small children and his 70+ year old mother in law! If he was merely exploring, he must have realized his mistake long before he reached Le Martinet, and could have turned round. Of course, people do stupid things when they are on holiday. And it is reported that he was following the recommendation of the woman at the campsite (in which case what an odd recommendation to have made).
I know that this observation has been made countless times already, but after watching the videos, seeing is believing.
Similarly, why would Sylvain Mollier have chosen to take his 5000 euro bike on such an unsuitable route? It makes no sense. One of his family members claimed that he had got lost. It’s incredible that an experienced cyclist with local roots would have got lost. It was suggested at the time by a fellow cycling enthusiast that he was testing a new route “(il avait) décidé de tester un nouvel itinéraire en vélo passant par Doussart et Chevaline dans la Haute Savoie.” http://www.velo101.com/forum/voirsujet/repose-en-paix-sylvain-mollier–17095 This implies that it was almost unprecedented for someone with Mollier’s type of bike to have selected such a route, further adding to the mystery.
By the way, the “repose en paix Sylvain Mollier” comment in the national velo forum quoted above contains not a single tribute from anyone from his local club, Cyclo Club D’Ugine. So cyclists for whom Mollier was a stranger are moved to comment, but those who actually knew him remain silent.
The mystery surrounding Sylvain Mollier is the biggest “known unknown” of this case. And thus one of the most important clues.
@ Q 6th June “SM’s family? Nothing. That is what stands out”. I absolutely agree.
Why the alleged smuggling of religious icons and artifacts might be of relevance to this story:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11640670/Islamic-State-sets-up-ministry-of-antiquities-to-reap-the-profits-of-pillaging.html
Of course we don’t know if it’s true about the Russian in Cluses being a smuggler, but French authorities might. They might also know if this type of merchandise was up his alley.
If seedy bistros are suitable for spy rendezvous, why not places off the beaten tracks in the woods for the exchange of cash for goods?
If the stories are true about single-vehicle accidents related to such rings, why would it be a surprise that deals gone bad could also have other unfortunate conclusions?
This is the type of thing that surviving family members would not want made public. Tax officials don’t like income made under the table. Also never a good idea to discuss affiliations in these circles.
Lathuile population 729
Sylvain did not belong to a cycling club, as confirmed by the man from the Mairie who knew him and had to tell Claire of his death.
Maillaud has publically said, soon after The Mirror printed the ex-legionnaire as suspect:
Eric Maillaud poursuit: «Ça n’en a jamais fait un suspect, voire, comme on me l’a fait dire, le suspect numéro 1! Il n’y a rien, hormis cette lettre qui relie cet homme à la tuerie. Il y a eu enquête. Et si on avait acquis la certitude de la culpabilité de cet homme ou de quelqu’un d’autre, tout le monde le saurait et on pourrait mettre un point final à ce dossier. Mais aujourd’hui, nous n’avons rien de neuf, ni sur lui, ni rien d’autre qui permette d’imaginer une solution.»
He was never a suspect some 1,300 people have been interviewed, they rightly looked at him and his life after his suicide because he made reference to the interview in his long letter explaining his action.
I do not know if Maillaud is doing a good job, I would not want to be the one confronted by the mass of information, then try to find the solution.
Maillaud is not running the case, he answers to the ‘juges d’instruction’, he is the Public Prosecutor who will eventually be responsible for saying whether there is enough evidence for a court case, a bit like your CPS ?
So, if the Slaughter of the Horses does not have its origin in the United Kingdom,
perhaps the origin is a little more local to the killing place.
In a village of seven hundred and twenty nine persons,
one resident, a cyclist, apparently on a local cycle ride from his home in Lathuile, comes across a quadruple murder, moments after it has happened, yet he heard or saw NOTHING?
He moves the body of the local man, a cyclist, Sylvain Mollier.
Fourteen months later, the SKETCH / E-FIT of the local motorcyclist, is released.
One week later Nicole Communal-Tournier is shot dead in her family home at their Ideal Camping business, they are neighbours of William Brett Martin.
A little while later an eX-policeman Eric Devouassoux is arrested, he is also a local from Lathuile, Eric’s mate is also arrested also from Lathuile, also connected to the local timber industry.
The apparent instigator of the demise of Nicole Communal-Tournier is from Doussard, also within walking distance of the other actors in these intrigues.
The daughters of Jean-Paul Communal-Tournier are married to the sons of
Jean-Claude Deronzier, who was the mayor of Doussard untill he “fell off a cliff”
What an amazing set of co-incidents?
Something else links these actors, money, property and businesses.
Nobody involved seems to be without considerable assets.
With all or most of these actors, they or their spouces own property or businesses,
the total wealth of the actors and their spouces is immense.
@M
Apparently (and this is only from initial reports in the newspapers at the time…and therefore comments on in this blog’s previous threads) Mollier had been in a local cycling club….but had “left” (under a cloud).
@GIP
I had previous comments somewhere else the BMW X5 had been sighted, but haven’t actually read the article myself (nor therefore conduct a search on “who the ex police officer was/is).
I assume however, the police did “test” the only sighting of this vehicle so that it could be confirmed (Possible other witnesses. Possible CCTV. Possible security camera footage)
But still, one has to ask… can a RHD BMW X5 spotted in a village some distance away actually be the same vehicle ONF1 claimed to have seen ?
My only note is… ONF1 has gone on camera (independently) and said “I saw a RHD BMW X5” and “it was on the Combe D’Ire route, heading towards the car park”.
That’s a pretty powerful thing to say. I mean, if he’s telling a “porkie pie”, he’s dropped himself right in it…..therefore I doubt he is lying.
It is also “worthy of note”, this ONF1 guy believes in his timeline.
He believes that vehicle was heading towards the car park “just after” he had seen the motorcyclist AND knowing the other ONF2 unit was in the area …or above the car park somewhere.
He confirms this by saying “I don’t know where it went”.
After all, he could have said it probably returned back down the route (logical), but he now knows WBM was on that very same route….and didn’t see this vehicle.
Therefore… we could (possibly) conclude
1. The vehicle heading down the route which passed WBM prior to the motorcyclist seeing him….was not the BMW X5 (but some other vehicle which has been identified and excluded from the investigation BUT which may not have been ONF2 (as ONF2 states he saw ONLY Mollier and no one else))
2. The BMW X5 returned down the Combe D’Ire route and departed the same route using the same access turn off road used later by the unseen ONF2 unit.
The applied logic here is….
If the ONF2 unit saw the motorcyclist (that’s official information released by Eric) AND saw Mollier (that’s also official information released by Eric)…
….but DID NOT see SAH or WBM. Then the route ONF2 took COULD WELL BE the same route taken previously by the “unseen” BMW X5.
The question is.
Why doesn’t the ONF1 worker consider “that” a “more likely scenario” (given it is widely supported by the actions of the “unseen” ONF2 vehicle) and instead consider his “it went over the mountains” thinking a more likely options as to why the BMW X5 was not sighted by WBM (or PB) ?
It doesn’t make any sense.
True, James, initially he was said to be a member, do you remember this ?
Lars says:
October 8, 2014 at 21:41
@James
According to the club manager, Sylvain was never member of that club. He was regarded as an amateur who preferred to cycle on his own.
James says:
October 8, 2014 at 22:21
@Lars
Didn’t realise that (again the bloody “news!”).
He wasn’t a member of the club but they knew him enough to say he liked to be on his own.
I guess it’s a small place.
But each to their own.
I guess he was just big into cycling…..and not big into clubs.
That’s fair enough.
@ M.”Sylvain did not belong to a cycling club…”
Ok, this could well be true. But actually I am not quite sure what to believe. Some press reports in the days after the killings stated that SM was a member of the local cycling club and even speculated that WBM would have recognized him from the club colours he would have been wearing! For example:
http://www.europe1.fr/faits-divers/tuerie-le-cycliste-venait-d-etre-pere-1229411
This is probably totally wide of the mark, though.
@ James. I compliment you on your memory! Yes, you reported (on 9-Nov-12) that MS had been kicked out of the cycling club, but no one was able to suggest the source of this, or the reason for his exit (if true). Another good example of the clouds of mystery shrouding the life of SM.