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I take it Eric Maillaud had forensics test the hands of Sylvain Mollier for powder burns?
@ Michael Norton
You are right. The notion that SM first shot Saad and himself, threw himself beneath the moving car, got up again, whacked almost the entire family and pistol-whipped Zainab, lay down again, gave himself a coup de grace between the eyes, and then somehow got rid of the gun and the spare magazines is no more nonsensical than the best scenarios that I can think of 😉
I give up on trying to find a solution that makes sense.
No. Who says she found her mother, she had apparently replied a positive to Emirates.
In truth, the recounting of events by Judy Weatherly are at least 12 years old, maybe more as Tom only started the book last year.
I doubt we repeat verbatim after 12 minutes. I am struck by Judys comments regarding how different Kelly and Iqbal looked: “I mean, she looked like a pauper. She gained weight. She just let herself go; that just wasn’t her. I could tell she was very, very unhappy. It’s just two different people as far as I’m concerned.”
I observed the same when seeing the photo of Kelly with her, she was a beautiful woman with a glorious smile.
MN – he had all sorts of tests that delayed his cremation !
O.K. Peter, let me say what I think.
Although it is possible that Mysterious(no-back-story) Sylvain Mollier was merely a welder in Cezus, I think that very, very unlikely.
Why would an intelligent, much younger woman, with beauty, prospects and some potential wealth go for a grunt?
As Bluebird has said the “nest” of the Molliers is Notre-Dame-de-Bellecombe-Crest-Volland,
a very wealthy tight knit community of locals. Less than one thousand inhabitants ( not counting guests)
Nicholas Mollier-Thomas who was raised in the area,
(who had a flat in Paris, near the HQ of the DGSE) had visited his mother and going back to his young family, just up the road in Hery-sur-Ugine, barrel roles his vehicle at 3.30pm Sunday afternoon, he was violently ejected from the vehicle, no other vehicle was involved and nobody saw nothing.
He is just one of Sylvain’s extended local family.
Sylvain may have “worked” in Cezus but you can put your last euro on it,
that is not all he did for a living.
@Peter
Bloomin heck ! That’s golden.
And also confusing. Here’s why !
WBM reports being passed by a “large vehicle” on it’s way downhill and then the motorcyclist, but he does not say it was a BMW 4×4 (or 4×4).
The assumption is, WBM saw the “Citroen van”.
The ONF2 unit departed the area from the hairpins, via the car park and went downhill. They report that they ONLY saw a cyclist (which we understand to be Mollier) and no body else.
The assumption is, they turned off the route before they could encounter either WBM or SAH as they were both ascending the Combe D’Ire.
So, if the Al Hilli family arrived at an empty car park, they must have “seen” this 4×4 vehicle as the were still ascending AND AFTER they had passed WBM.
If this vehicle seen by Zainab was a 4×4 and not a Citroen van…
AND the vehicle seen by WBM was a Citroen van and not a 4×4…
THEN it is “highly likely” that vehicle seen by Zainab and by ONF1 is one and the same. The “mysterious” BMW 4×4 ?
If that is so, then at the very least it confirms the statement given by ONF1. There was a BMW 4×4 in the area. It was ascending when he saw it.
AND his timeline (or as near as damn it)
And given that ONF1 may not be privy to the information known by the investigation team….but knowing as much as a vehicle of this description DID NOT pass WBM, then ONF1 has to conclude the BMW 4×4 must have “gone over the hills and faraway”.
Given that…
ONF1 passes the MC at the car park, then (some way down) the BMW 4×4.
The MC moves to the hairpins to be confronted by ONF2.
SAH over takes WBM, then later on is passed by BMW 4×4.
Somewhere downhill the BMW 4×4 takes the turn-off.
ONF2 (and by default MC) passes thru the car park.
Both ONF2 (and by default MC) pass SM
Somewhere downhill ONF2 takes the turn-off
The MC continues passing SAH and then WBM.
SAH passes SM “very close to” the car park and parks up.
The “crucial” turn-off is just under a Km from the car park.
And I don’t even know if it’s “doable” in a BMW X5 (or even if it had anything to do with anything !)
The turn-off in question looking down towards Chevaline.
https://goo.gl/maps/LZ7SR
The exit at the “back end” looking back towards the Martinet area.
https://goo.gl/maps/pvKfg
Forgive my ignorance but How do we know it wasn’t WBM?
@Peter @M
To note…
”I said, ‘Are you going back to the Emirates?’ because that was where she was living when she came her. She said, ‘I’m going to start out over there’.
“She said her mother was in France at the time. She was going to find her mother or something, I just didn’t want her to go”.
Of course, these recollections are about a conversation that took place many years ago. And the “reporting” of them is going to be “skewed”.
The terminology is also “American” (“start over”).
All in all, it seems “random”.
Q. Are you going back to the UAE ?
A Yes. (pause) Er… my mum is in France by the way. I think I’ll go and find her !
All a bit “random” !
I guess the “take home” is….
Iqbal was going back to the Emirates AND ALSO at that time her mother was in France.
And from that…. I ask, what is her mother’s connection with France ? Which part (t’is a big country) ? Was there still connections there in 2012 (and beyond, for that matter) ?
@ M.
The Legionnaire. We seem to be arguing from different understandings of the word “suspect.” Menegaldo’s suicide note was suspicious. Maillaud is on record as saying so, not in a single throwaway sentence, but in a lengthy statement of about 250 words, which I believe Parry could not have made up. That’s “real” enough for me.
No doubt Parry needed a scoop after the mystery of the motorcyclist was cleared up, and the loquacious Maillaud duly obliged, much to his later chagrin. The subsequent enquiry, which no doubt is going nowhere, has not confirmed those suspicions, but it has not removed them either. That can only happen if the killer is found.
Of course Menegaldo is not, and has never been, an “official” suspect. I believe that the only “official” suspect is Zaid, in the sense that if he were to set foot in France he would probably be arrested and questioned.
Maillaud denies that Menegaldo was ever “le suspect numéro 1” That’s fine, because the book never claims that he was! As you have just pointed out in your latest post, Parry actually says about Menegaldo:
“Here is one individual who fits the precise profile of the Chevaline killer. If it were not the Ugine Legionnaire, then I believe it has to be another assassin with a similar background…”
Now, moving on, as Brett Martin would say…
@ James
All the locals interviewed for the book agree that whoever did it must have fled over the hill. Maillaud had his men try the route over the hill and they found it doable even in a regular car, albeit a bumpy ride during which the car might sustain the odd scratch. Thus, it would certainly be easily feasible in a 4×4.
My own interpretation is that the 4×4 arrived via the turn-off that you mention (behind which lies a fairly smooth track), ahead of SAH, but fled via the bumpier stretch above the Martinet (thereby avoiding WBM et al.). It was a dry day on which all of these routes should have been navigable in a 4×4, even if only equipped with regular road-going tyres.
@ M.
The Pharmacy. It’s well known that in 2011 Thierry Schutz entered into an agreement whereby the Pharmacy was sold to his daughter, Claire. I’m guessing that the arrangement was along the lines of an “earn out” whereby Claire would pay her father the purchase price in installments over a number of years, from the earnings of the business. This is a normal and perfectly legal device to avoid gift or inheritance tax.
Thus in her late 20s Claire became the sole owner of a business worth over 1.4 million euros, according to the publicly available information.
What surprises me (and what doesn’t quite add up) is Maillaud’s attempt, in his interview with Parry, to play down the value to Claire of this transaction:
“.. Claire did not inherit her father’s business. He has given it to her on credit, which she reimburses every month”.
Yes, but Maillaud must surely have known the monthly payments would be from the cash flow of the business and would no doubt be structured to ensure that Claire herself was still left with a comfortable monthly salary. Taking account of tax efficiencies other advantages, this was an extremely sweet deal for her. She would be a wealthy woman by her mid 30s.
From her father’s point of view, however, the sale was less attractive. He had given up ownership and control of the business and would continue to receive monthly “earn out” payments only as long as the business remained viable and profitable. This may not have been a concern as long as he felt that the business was being run well and its financial resources managed prudently. But then Sylvain Mollier appeared on the scene…
Maillaud seems to deliberately play down the relevance of the Mollier factor, just as he does with the sale of the pharmacy:
“It is worth remembering that Sylvain Mollier and Claire Schutz were not married, so he would not have inherited any money…”
This seems to me to miss the point entirely. Thierry’s daughter was now deeply involved with this man and was the mother of his child, and he was apparently entirely dependent on her financially. It’s not a question of inheritance; it’s a question of what happens to his life’s work.
Yet Maillaud glosses over the elements of what was clearly a bitter family feud, and Parry seems to swallow the Maillaud line unquestioningly. Faced with a wall of silence in the locality , he assumes there is nothing behind the wall. So much for investigative journalism…
Remembering the single-vehicle “accidents” in the French Alps, and what some say is the cause for some of them.
Peter, agreed – whichever way there is the continual ‘oui, mais’
I was disappointed in the book from an overall point of view, too much was The Mirror text, there are some obvious errors and I do not understand why he did not question the UGITECH, CEZUS angle.
Family say UGITECH, the rest of the world CEZUS, what is that all about ? Because the former would whack on the head any reference to Zirconium.
The end product was a rushed affair, spelling errors and odd format in places, maybe where there had been a change to the original.
There are many points of interest, although I doubt it will win any prizes.
http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2011/06/tighten-rules-on-foreign-marriage-partners-says-think-tank-.html
Much more can be found about policies related to means tests, etc., but this indicates a shift in policy and attitudes toward arranged marriages and immigration.
For background only, a family honor killing committed by other members of the same family, set up to look like an accident. This story also had a Dubai angle.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders
@ Mr Juicy & Michael Norton
Okay, let us assume that one or more parties had a powerful motive to do away with SM. As a person given to enjoying long, solitary bicycle rides through the countryside, SM hardly could hardly have been an easier victim.
If they had wanted to, whoever might have wanted to kill him could have made it look like a hunting accident (by waiting a few days for the hunting season to start and shooting him with a hunting rifle), like a cycling accident (by running him off the road and breaking his neck), or like a hit-and-run accident. A pharmacist or somebody possessing similar specialist knowledge could even have made it look like a natural death brought on by sudden heart failure during one of those arduous climbs that SM liked to much.
Alternatively, whoever might have wanted him dead might have wanted to send out a message by killing him, make a statement. That, too, should have been easy enough to accomplish. Even law-abiding citizens tend to understand the message when somebody is found with his private parts stuffed down his throat, for example.
Thirdly, the perpetrator could have been the ruthlessly pragmatic sort and just wanted to kill him as quickly and efficiently as possible. No problem. Distress flares for mountaineers – I bet that they sell them in the village sporting goods store – can fire .22 LR and shotgun ammunition, depending on the kind. Shoot him in the head at point-blank range with one of those contraptions, boom, job done.
However, what actually happened at the Martinet does not fit any of these scenarios, in my opinion.
Juicy, everything you write has been gone over on MZT, Deadzone and here.
Chiffres d’affaires for 2014…. turnover,
http://www.verif.com/societe/PHARMACIE-SCHUTZ-533240032/
And this is even better:
http://www.score3.fr/PHARMACIE-SCHUTZ-533240032.shtml
Take a look at the net, hardly a fortune is it ?
She now operates out of the new build, which has appartments as well, Thierry appears to be the person who put in the plans etc. for this years ago. I have seen them, they were able to be viewed on the internet.
He no doubt receives rent from the business, either sold or rented the appartments, I do not think we need worry about Thierry Schutz and his wife Genevieve.
Oh dear, I hope the MZT and Deadzone forum people have not based their valuation of the Pharmacy on the net figure in the published accounts!! The topline is a more reliable guide. Anyone with experience of running a small business would know that it would be wise to keep the net profit figure as low as possible in order to minimize tax, particularly in high tax jurisdictions such as France. The bottom line number would be net of everything, including for example the owner’s salary and expenses, the monthly earn out payment, depreciation, provisions, amortised costs of new construction, renovation, interest & bank charges etc. Pharmacies are a high margin business, by the way. I think a typical valuation would be more than 1 x top line, which I see was 1.6 million euros. So if the agreed purchase price in 2011 was 1.4 million, Claire got an even sweeter deal than I thought.
No one is suggesting that Thierry and his wife are short of money. But rich people often get rich by watching the pennies. So it is entirely reasonable to assume that he was concerned about the finances and management of the Pharmacy after ownership passed to his daughter. Anyway, one of the very few hard facts that is known about Mollier is that he was involved in a bitter feud with Schutz over money (confirmed by Claire’s brother Francois before he was ordered to keep his mouth shut).
@ Peter
To borrow your argument: anyone wanting to do away with the Al Hilli’s could have found an easier time and place to do it, for example a local killer could do it while they were sleeping in the caravan; and a UK based killer would have no need to travel to France, when the deed could be done in Surrey, when their movements would be more predictable. What actually happened at Le Martinet does not fit the likely scenarios, in my opinion.
If we assume that SM was the target, we must construct a scenario which matches our knowledge of what actually happened. For example there could have been an angry verbal confrontation before the shooting actually started.
if you go on Google Earth, the old Pharmacie Schutz-Morange, is still there, the new one
in Charlot Raymond is still being constructed but it does seem that both businesses are running concurrently
I would think that some messages have been put out by the Slaughterers of the Horses and these messages are none-too-subtle for the locals, which is Y they are keeping their traps firmly SHUT
James, ref the 4×4 on page 63: Monsieur Maillaud explained:
“The BMW 4×4 was only seen by one person, a forestry worker. Brett Martin didn’t see this BMW. He is certain it’s a BMW, but he is a bit less certain if it’s an X3 or X5
Many FRENCH persons who could in some way have connections to Sylvain Mollier seem to have died, since the Slaughter of the Horses
but of course,
this does not mean he was the prime target.
he could have just been an innocent lost local cyclist,
who was but a lowly manual worker with no involment other than he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Juicy, Claires brother is Laurent.
You suggested:
‘Claire herself was still left with a comfortable monthly salary. Taking account of tax efficiencies other advantages, this was an extremely sweet deal for her. She would be a wealthy woman by her mid 30s.’
She was 29 when Mollier died. Wealthy, even if she saved all of the 50/70k a year, in 2012 there was a loss, inside 5 years or so, compared to who ?
She was not a millionairess as many of the Press were happy to report, I can see Thierry not being happy about his daughters choice of man, the decision for him to take Paternity leave needs at least two months notice to his employer, according to Tom Parrys account of the obit, was UGITECH. It has been reported he negotiated the three years, when he died he was still inside the three months, Louis was 10 weeks old. From what I see of Claire she is not a wallflower, they likely made the decision together.
There was a reason Saad was in Annecy and it was his visit to Geneva, if you have read the book you will know it was his plan, the most likely is someone wanted him stopped.
Tom Parry has not correctly given the ages of M et Mme Schutz, born 1951 and 1954 respectively.
Sylvains brother, Christophe was the only sibling to speak to the Press, there is no proof he was told to shut up.
Everything is open to discussion, even if we do not agree.
MZT and Deadzone as Peter observed were a great group of people, unlike some of the unsavoury characters that post here. Like Peter, I have joined in because I rather like the unmoderated comments, I could tell you to fuck off you twat and not have my comment removed or close the thread.
I will not stoop so low.
‘Now, moving on, as Brett Martin would say…’
MN, you have been looking at an area under a microscope, even Tom Parry said as such in THE book.
The Pharmacy has been relocated
http://cities.reseaudescommunes.fr/cities/1060/documents/m6j8zv6eeogz364.pdf
‘transfert de leur activité sur ce nouvel emplacement ‘
‘Now, moving on, as Brett Martin would say…’
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com//news/canada/hamed-shafias-promise-to-his-sister-on-her-wedding-night-if-you-leave-with-your-husband-ill-kill-everyone-here
I have to admit that this story is why I began following the Chevaline saga. COD is known, but after all these years, we still don’t know how the murders were executed. It obviously involved some work. This story was in the headlines in 2012 when the trial ended.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/shafia-family-patriarch-wields-power-from-jail/article543457/?service=mobile
The outcome for the children who were not murdered? Time will tell.
Part of why the Shafia story came to mind after the Chevaline mass murder was SSTL’s role in monitoring the Afghanistan opium poppy fields. The Shafia family came from Afghanisyan, and their fortune came partly from an import-export business.
Q, some sort of honour killing, who would be dishing out the punishment ? The al-Hillis for being deceived or the al-Saffars for bringing the family into disrepute ?
http://www.producer.com/2012/01/poppy-field-trials-await-health-canada-approval%E2%80%A9/
Where are the approved Thebaine fields in France?
@M
I’m a bit confused.
““The BMW 4×4 was only seen by one person, a forestry worker. Brett Martin didn’t see this BMW. He is certain it’s a BMW, but he is a bit less certain if it’s an X3 or X5”
Is that Eric’s quote ?
I get the “only one worker saw the BMW (the X5)”
And “WBM didn’t see the X5”
But it’s the “…but he is a bit less certain if it’s an X3 or X5”
I take it the meaning is “Eric is a bit less certain if it (the BMW sighted by the worker) was an X5 or X3”.
Peter says that in the TP book, the locals and the police seem to think the BMW X5 (or X3) escaped across the hills.
As it wasn’t sighted by anyone, I don’t know how this assumption by the police and locals was arrived at.
Importantly, there’s kind of a “double negative” going on there. AND, if Zainab saw “a 4×4 vehicle”, what was that if it was not the X5 (or X3) ?
It can only be the “Citroen van” (the large vehicle sighted by WBM) which isn’t a 4×4 OR the ONF2 unit….which reports it didn’t see the Al Hilli car.
Note. If Zainab saw a 4×4, it could not be the BMW X5/X3 as Eric believes that this escaped over the hills and faraway (and that would have to be prior to the arrival of the MC and ONF2 unit in the car park…..
So Zainab’s 4×4 has to be “on the combe D’ire” and likely “travelling towards the Al Hilli family”.
….and the only vehicle that could be, is the “non 4×4” Citroen van, which is believed to be the “large vehicle” sighted by WBM.
Unless we now have a 5th vehicle !
1. ONF1,
2. ONF2,
3. BWM X5/X3,
4. Citroen van,
5.another 4×4)
Anymore for anymore !!!!
Peter
You wrote “I only wonder what kind of dinner party she attended for all those years between her graduation in Baghdad 1987 and her turning up in the USA in 1999.”
That is a very good question. I thought that at one stage she had worked (or volunteered) at a hospital somewhere in the Holy Land. However I just now searched for a reference and cannot find one.
Followed by “Her mother moved in equally mysterious ways: After her mother had succeeded in persuading Iqbal to leave the US, the two supposedly met up in France (of all places). What was the mother doing in France, with a sick husband and a mentally-ill son back home in Sweden?”
I remember reading somewhere that she had UN travel documentation and, by implication, some UN role, paid or un-paid.
Perhaps she was in France because of the requirements of that role eg meetings, conferences, workshops, whatever.