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@ Good in Parts
I remember reading somewhere that she had UN travel documentation and, by implication, some UN role, paid or un-paid.
I am not sure that I would follow you on that one. Amongst the UN’s tasks is the issuance of refugee travel documents, the successors to Nansen passports.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_travel_document
Given that both families apparently excelled at gaming Western welfare and visa systems, I would bet that Suhaila had one of those up her sleeve as well.
@ James
To quote Maillaud: “Nothing is impossible. Perhaps he waited, killed them and then carried on the other way (i. e., my comment: above the Martinet) where no one saw him except the forestry worker.” Ex-Mayor Berthollet: “The day it happened, the police blocked off all the routes towards the lake,” Monsieur Berthollet explained to me, “But on the other side the killer could have disappeared. You can continue in a 4×4 and then go down the other side quite easily. Or you could walk; even use a mountain bike. It’s an easy place to escape. One hour afterwards he would be over the other side.” Parry interprets it the same way: “If he did not pass the no-entry sign and over the other side of the mountain marked ‘no access to cars’, he would have been seen.”
@Paeter
The thing is, there was news report footage showing the police helicopter up in that area. I have no idea what day that footage was shot (that afternoon or the next day). Having a brief re-check I found the comments of fellow camper Malcolm Lambert of the Isle of Man.
‘We arrived back at about 3.30pm French time and sirens were going on constantly for about two hours,’ he revealed. ‘The police helicopter was up and we knew something serious had happened” (reference link below).
From that, it is unclear whether the helicopter was up “at 3.30 local” or “at sometime within the 2 hours preceding 3.30 local”.
I don’t know where the Gendarmerie helicopter (for that local area) is based…or indeed if there is one, but given the EMS capabilities at the local area hospitals and the joint EMS role the Gendarmerie conduct in the area, I would imagine that Annecy airport would be “a base” for such activities to be centred.
I know there is a SAMU based out of Grenoble (EMS role) and a Civil Security (EMS role) based out of Annecy… but a “local” Gendarmerie helicopter at Annecy, I am unsure.
However, it can be said that there was “at some point between 1530L and 1730L at least one Gendarmerie helicopter in the area and operating.
Given that a helicopter (using a thermal camera) failed to pick up the heat signature of the hidden daughter, I would assume it was originally tasked to “sweep” the area. A vehicle travelling over the Col Cherel in daylight hours would have easily been seen.
To give credit, where credit is due, the French authorities quickly shut down the airspace over that area…allowing for the unhindered operation of it’s own helicopters (although the day after, one helicopter did over fly the scene…providing the now infamous photographs).
Give the probable planning the murderer would have taken (I assume), escaping over such (open) terrain “due south” towards Jarsy, would be “more than worrying” given the proximity of Annecy airport….AND moreso, given the turn of events as they turned out to be.
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/murder-in-the-alps-manx-couple-caught-up-in-police-investigation-1-4900897
@M.
The value of the pharmacy and the transaction is now “on public record”. All such dealing have to be.
From memory (although I did post a link somewhere to the records now available) was.. the pharmacy business was valued up towards the “one million” mark. The transfer was around the 100K mark (for “goodwill”).
TS did form a new company (based out of the new pharmacy site), and that business is “real estate”.
The transfer/transaction took place (or began) in approx June 2012.
To add (about “the vehicles on the road” that afternoon).
With reference to Malcolm Lambert and the article in the IoM media.
“Mr Lambert said they had driven back from a cave and waterfall past the murder scene at around the time the shootings would have taken place”.
Now Mr L appears to like his local media outlet. He often provides photos of local area (unusual) events. Basking sharks, lunar eclipses etc. And files some local sports reports on the Table Tennis.
He may have contacted his local newspaper with a “local angle” on this tragedy. However…. he may have been confused as to where the murders had happened. He believed at the time he had “driven past the crime scene” at “around the time” of the murder.
Whereas, it appears he would have been departing the waterfall area 45 minutes earlier at around 3pm that afternoon.
For an “isolated spot”, it sure is busy.
SAF Helecopters Albertville
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.saf-helicopters.com/en/groupe_SAF-HELICAP/contact.php&prev=search
About two mile walk from Pharmacie Schutz-Morange, Grignon
James, it is the forestry worker who cannot be certain if it was an X3 or X5.
Regarding the Pharmacy, yes the actual goodwill, I had a figure in mind of 90k, so your 100k fits the bill.
As written in the book, if Mollier was a gold-digger he could have chosen better.
With her income, there was no need for him to work on shifts, a matter they no doubt decided between themselves.
Papa Schutz unhappy, I would say so, Claire had the gumption to do as she pleased, the sale of the Pharmacy planned whilst she was living with Mollier, but before she knew she was pregnant.
The press announcements in September/October 2011.
I agree the 4×4 BMW would have been seen, it most likely turned around and went straight back down.
Zainab should have seen the same vehicle Martin saw, whatever it was.
@ M. @ James
The Pharmacy. Thanks for your feedback. It’s good to discuss and exchange ideas, with the aim of getting closer to the truth. Looking at the 2004 numbers:
1. Claire is the owner of a small business, with a turnover of € 1.6 million euros. Based on a valuation of 1 x annual turnover, she owns an asset worth € 1.6 million euros.
2. The typical gross margin of a pharmacy business is 30% (you can check this from the internet). That means:
a. Sales €1.6
b. Cost of Sales € 1.1
c. Gross Profit € 0.5
3. Net Profit = Gross Profit – Operating Expenses. If net profit is € 50,000 then operating expenses are € 450,000
4. Operating expenses include wages, rent, utilities and monthly repayment to father. Let’s assume monthly repayments are over 10 years = €140,000 per annum. Let’s assume other operating expenses are 10% of turnover = €160,000. Owner’s salary could be around €150,000
Notes:
1. You can ignore the €50,000 (or whatever) Net Profit figure. This is then taxed and what remains goes into the reserves. Losses can be carried forward to be offset against profits in future years.
2. These are rough figures, based on all kinds of variables. Let’s call it a tentative illustration. Gross margin would vary depending on whether sales are mainly lower margin Système de Santé Français (if that’s the right term), or higher margin OTC, or other sidelines
3. Operating Expenses are difficult to estimate. Unknown factors include rent and size of staff (other than the owner).
4. Once the “earn out” has been completed, net profit would rise by about €140,000 per annum.
There’s no need for us to disagree about whether this means that Claire is “wealthy” or not. I would say: comfortably off, for her age; with assets of over 1.5 million euros (the business, not cash) and excellent prospects. Or you could day “petite bourgeoise shopkeeper.” Anyway, she owns a successful business, has a reliable income and comes from a prosperous and well connected family.
You do not need a four wheel drive car to taverse rough mountain tracks, the FRENCH used to use 2CV for this purpose but you do need appropriate tyres
http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/135r15-michelin-x-m-and-s.html
Often known as MUD & SNOW Tyres
Re “Paternity” Leave. Mollier probably applied for Special Unpaid Leave (SUPL), with the option to return to his old job within a 3 year period. I don’t think it would be official paternity leave, but this is perhaps a nicer way to describe it.
Presumably the decision to apply was because of the baby. Or had he been thinking of taking a break anyway? We don’t know. Was this his decision, or did he feel pressurized to do so by Claire? We don’t know.
Presumably taking SUPL would leave him financially worse off, since he would not be paid during this period (or would he? – we don’t know) and could not draw employment benefit (or could he? – we don’t know).
If he was going to be financially worse off, how would this affect his financial obligations to his ex-wife and sons? We don’t know. Was he required to pay alimony? We don’t know. Did he provide any support to his family, eg for his son’s education? How did his ex-wife feel about his decision to take 3 years “paternity” leave? If he was unable to continue payments, would his wife asked for support from Claire or her family? We don’t know.
I could go on, through this and compartments of Mollier’s life – his career, his family, his friends, his relationships, cataloguing the many questions to which we have no answers. His life, though banal by comparison with the exotic background of the Al Hilli’s, remains a mystery, whereas the life of the Al Hilli’s has been dissected and chewed over and a light shone into every nook and crevice.
I cannot therefore agree with when he says:
“There is less mystery in the life of Sylvain Mollier, which detectives have been able to research far more thoroughly…”
I would put it another way. French investigators (and the international media) have respected the privacy of the French citizen who was murdered in the massacre to an extent that has not been accorded to the British victims.
@ M. Christophe Mollier.
Parry writes:
“I called his brother Christophe, hoping he would be able to expand on his earlier comments. He said: “I have nothing to say on this subject. It went badly for me after I spoke to a British journalist before.”
Later, quoting a French journalist, Parry writes:
“The Mollier family and his employers have hired a lawyer to monitor French and international media… They ‘go on the attack’ against any journalist who speculates on why Mollier was at Le Martinet that day… The local newspaper even received a legal letter simply for covering a service in his honour, saying it was a breach of his private life. His siblings, his in-laws and his employers have all shut down. It’s difficult to understand why.”
I think all the siblings and in-laws have been told to shut up. That’s a reasonable inference from these two quotations from Parry. One wonders who is really behind the efforts to gag journalists, but judging from the ”wall of silence” encountered by Parry, not to mention the blandly superficial way in which he covers the Mollier angle in his book, I’d say the lawyers have earned their fees.
MN, the photographs on the day showed a Gendarmerie helicopter. In the book as Peter has said the track is okay for ordinary vehicles as long as you don not mind a bit of damage. The Gendarmes did it in a normal car.
@ M. You wrote: “There was a reason Saad was in Annecy and it was his visit to Geneva, if you have read the book you will know it was his plan, the most likely is someone wanted him stopped”.
Yes, I agree. I am sure that Saad planned to visit Geneva during his holiday. This is confirmed by Saad’s friend “James.” And as Parry puts it “Annecy was the perfect place to combine relaxation with some personal financial management.” (A bit of an understatement, given what he goes on to say about the purpose of the visit.) I believe there is also evidence from Swiss sources that he had made an appointment with a bank in Geneva, where there was an account in the name of his father Kadhim.
The bitter inheritance dispute with his brother provides a motive. But as Parry points out, there is no actual firm evidence linking Zaid to the murders. The British police have said the same thing. Zaid of course has an alibi. And Parry cannot explain how Zaid could have known his brother and family were in that particular part of France at that time, particularly since the decision to go there seems to have been a last minute one. The funds in that account were frozen, so neither brother could gain access. It is possible that Saad could have used the visit to assert his own claim, or to block that of his brother, but it is unlikely that the visit would have changed the situation in any material way.
And as Maillaud himself has argued, if Zaid had wanted to order a killing, “it is his brother alone that he would have wanted to kill, and not the children.” (Maillaud’s analysis of the cultural background to the hatred between the two brothers, as recorded by Parry, is excellent.)
Whilst the hypothesis that Zaid ordered the killing of Saad is supported by a clear motive, its weakness is the improbability that it could have happened when and where it did. On the other hand, the hypothesis that this was an entirely local affair is more plausible, based on the evidence on the crime scene. A deeper investigation of the feud between the Schutz and Mollier families could reveal a motive, or the reasons could exist elsewhere in the hidden life of Sylvain Mollier.
@ James
I am not sure how much planning was involved in these murders. Apparently, the AHs came to be at the Martinet through a double coincidence: first, Saad asking Zainab what she wanted to do that day, and her selecting a walk in the woods over competing options; secondly, the camping site receptionist directing them towards this place that really was quite unsuitable for their purposes, the starting point of a serious hike rather than a leisurely walk in the woods with the entire family. Who could have foreseen that combination of events?
The next question is how the killer(s) would have known about their destination. In this regard, I don’t believe that electronic tracking gadgetry was involved. Rather, I believe that somebody overheard the receptionist or, even simpler, that SAH or a member of his family *told* the killer(s) where they were heading. Remember that, on their way to the Martinet, an unknown person took a photo of the entire family. In this context, it would not be suspicious for that person to ask where they were heading next, it would simply be routine chit-chat amongst tourists.
Unless whoever committed the murders was already in the vicinity of the Martinet, a mad scramble to get there before the AHs must have ensued. The killer(s) cannot have arrived there long before the AHs, probably just long enough to have a quick look around and decide that this place would have to do. I believe that the same now-or-never attitude motivated the killer(s) to accept SM as collateral damage, rather than wait for another opportunity to kill the AH family to present itself.
To my mind, the haste in which this plan must have been conceived, the recklessness involved, the sketchiness of the murder scene, from which it was manifestly quite difficult to disappear unseen, suggests that the killer was not prepared to wait for a better opportunity: either because he was in an almighty rage, or because the AHs were about to do something that he was desperate to prevent.
Either way, the killer(s) was or were incredibly lucky on many different fronts, not merely in managing to escape police roadblocks and CCTV cameras. As the human mind is constantly trying to discern orderly patterns in a chaotic world, I believe that there is a danger of ascribing too many facets of this case to skill, careful planning and excellent local knowledge rather than sheer dumb luck.
If, in two and a half years, there have been
no extra murders / suicides in England, associated with the Slaughter of the Horses,
yet in Savoie – Haute-Savoie there have been several.
This must tell us something.
James, I think we have thought of the Capital of the Pharmacy. This link is more precise, I need to find the BODACC references. Global Debts for 2014 1.951K Euro. Salaries and charges for 2014 303KEuro
http://www.manageo.fr/fiche_info/533240032/29/pharmacie-schutz.html
Thierry and Genevieve Capital 1.15million Euros, 90K is the capital for Thierrys new business venture, the new complex.
According to the new website, there is a team of seven women working there, full time/part time who knows
The most wise man
Zaid al-Hilli, the England based brother of slaughtered Saad,
has said he does not trust the FRENCH
he will not be going to France
it is his belief that powerful families in that part of FRANCE are being protected.
How wise.
The businessman, who lives in Chessington, ENGLAND,
claimed he has been the target of a witch-hunt by the French authorities who had spread lies about him and his family.
Our background is Middle Eastern and I think they set out to protect the white FRENCH families, he told the BBC News.
French authorities and Surrey Police have refused to comment.
The goinings on of the al-Hilli family have been gone over in minute detail, the house that Saad and his family lived in, at Claygate is often shown on the news, the flat that Zaid now lives in is shown on the news, he is sometimes doorstopped and movie-filmed outside his block.
Yet no interview is shown of Claire Schutz outside her business, or outside of where she resides.
No shot ( as far as i am aware) has been shown of the supposed house of Sylvain mollier,
in Ugine.
No interview of employees outside the gates of Cezus.
No interview of any of the siblings of Sylvain Mollier has been shown ( as far as I am aware)
Is it not the case that these two families have been treated,
rather differently?
And Tom Parry writes:
‘There is less mystery in the life of Sylvain Mollier, which detectives have been able to research far more thoroughly.’
From previous Press articles, the phones of the family were tapped for up to six months after the murders, altogether some 1,300 interviews have been carried out.
There have been errors.
Zaid is a strange character, comments about the French authorities being complicit in a plot to kill Mollier with no reasoning behind it are just bizarre. I understand his annoyance, maybe I would view him in a better light if he went to France as requested, his refusal resulted in his very public arrest in Chessington.
Tom Parry writes: ‘In 2011, the year before the murders, Saad packed the maroon BMW, fitted the roof rack for the bikes and clipped on the caravan for a week’s holiday in France.
Saad took hundreds of photographs on that camping trip. A handful have been made public, but close friends and former colleagues have been told not to release any more by the police.’
The Mollier/Schutz family not wanting further press intrusion is understandable as is the above. Knocking on someones door and expecting a welcome may be an Award Winning journalists way of doing things, I would say ‘non merci’ and close the door.
Fadwa was not interviewed for the book, she has also broken off all contact with Dr Alabdi, she does not return his or his wifes calls. Zaid does not see the girls.
What I would agree on is none of us know a person completely.
Did the Police find cash in the caravan or car, if Suhaila were to be putting money in a Swiss account for her granddaughters, where was the money coming from ?
The al-Saffar family may have just as much a link to the murders as the al-Hillis or the carers in Spain, Saad went to sort out a matter there, said to be because the carer had stolen money from his father. Even Zaid says he does not know what they know.
The al-Saffars and al-Hillis arranged the ‘marriage’, some of them know one another, chances are the two fathers who both died in 2011.
O.K. let us try another approach.
It was said that the original reason that the eX-Legionnaire
( now deceased) was interviewed after Chevaline
was because of his friendship with the family Schutz.
Note not because of his involvement with the family Mollier.
So, which person in particular?
My problem is….
…everytime I try to get away from the “Mollier angle”, I find myself back there.
There was/has been (ongoing) a “huge” and “instant” effort to distance him from these murders. It is profound.
The comments of his brother are somewhat “disturbing”. He must be dealing with a “local” and “powerful” family.
James, I think he reads too many blogs !
@ M.
No doubt, Zaid AH comes across as a rum cove who has something to hide. However, according to Parry, he has recently joined the investigation as a civil party. If he were guilty, he would have done so from day one, since this enables him to find out exactly what the gendarmes have, or think they have, against him.
The al-Saffars and al-Hillis arranged the ‘marriage’, some of them know one another, chances are the two fathers who both died in 2011.
I am sure that they have known one another for a long time, otherwise they would not have been able to arrange the marriage that quickly. They probably are, or have been, doing business with one another as well (I was surprised to find that a Mr Al-Saffar from Stockholm owns or owned a company called SHTRADING). They will also have known details about one another’s financial backgrounds. According to Parry, in addition to the Geneva account, Kadhim AH also had accounts in Jersey and Guernsey. I strongly assume that the al-Saffars likewise had money salted away offshore (probably in Geneva as well – I reckon that Suhaila was on her way to transfer money from her own offshore account into accounts that she planned to set up for Zainab and Zeena). Unless the al-Saffars also had an offshore nest-egg, their daughter would have been deemed incompatible with Saad regarding their respective social standing. Moreover, Suhaila and her husband may have lived like paupers in Sweden, but she did an awful lot of travelling for a pauper. Finally, that burglary of her flat in Tumba after her death may have been intended to remove all evidence linking her and her husband to that offshore account or accounts.
The fact that the suit man argued with Saad on the evening before the murders does not mean that the argument was about Saad personally. In that culture, men do the talking, at least outside the home. Thus, if I were Maillaud, I should be looking for a relative of the al-Saffars who was based in Switzerland at the time, perhaps after spending a stint in the UK, where he purchased an RHD BMW 4×4. To my admittedly overactive imagination, what happened at the Martinet, killing all the adults but not the children, very clearly points towards the family knowing their assailant. Any surviving adults would have been able to identify him, which is why they all had to die, which in turn is why he took three full magazines with him.
At least outside countries like Mexico, you simply cannot hire a paid assassin who would be prepared to kill an entire family. You certainly cannot do so anywhere in the world if you are an accountant from Chessington. There is a two-way trust relationship involved in a contract killing: the principal must trust the killer to do the job, which the killer has no incentive to do if the principal is some harmless mope from which no retribution is to be expected for merely pocketing the advance and making excuses, and the killer must trust the principal to keep his mouth shut when the police come calling. Thus, the sheer number of people killed plus the character of the suspected principal would make this a highly unusual contract killing, so unusual as to defy belief. Looking at intrafamilial violence, however, the number of victims and the savagery displayed are almost par for the course.
James, a precis for you:
Zaid… contradicts …. Saad trying to block him from getting at the money in Geneva. He instead says they both agreed to freeze the account. …… claims not to know how much is in the account.
(Then there is the bit about the freezing of the account upon the father being hospitalised)
Credit cards….. my father did apply for these…..
Of Dario Zanni, Swiss Prosecutor, he says “My French lawyer said these people want these 15 minutes of fame”
Zaid also rejected the claim that on September 3, 2012…. Saad called the bank to forewarn them of his next visit…. According to Zaid… would never have made the call…. he knew the account was frozen.
Julian Steadman …. Saad recorded what had been going on… I think police have been able to get access off the hard drive.
As far as Zaid is concerned though, any discussion of what he hoped would always remain private, between members of his own family, is “all nonsense”, a distraction from the real police investigation.
Peter, an al-Saffar working at the bank ? I agree with your observation about the man dealing with matters, it is a shame Parry muddled up two events, the “Balkan” in Europa becoming the well dressed man at Le Soiltaire, the day before the murders. The witnesses saying he appeared to know the man and they could not understand the conversation.
What about money for the ‘cousin’ of the girls, according to Parry the child of Ahmed Mahmood her son, the reporting always said it was Fadwas daughter.
I am pleased to read Zaid now has a French lawyer, even if his assertions are still strange.
In an attempt to be the first to report anything many assumptions have been made by various news outlets.
MN, go back to the original reports from June 2014, he was a close friend of a friend of the family, he was a friend of the family, he lived in the same building as Mollier, he had an affair with Sylviane, all of which could be true.
He has been described as being an acquaintance of Claire Schutz.
Take your pick, smallish communities are like that.
My bet would be Eric Maillaud, interviewed the eX-Legionnaire because he was a long term friend of the father of Claire Schutz.
It was the father of Claire Schutz who suggested Sylvain cycle up to Le Martinet.
How much older than the eX-Legionnaire is the father of Clair Schutz, is it seven years.
Maybe they were friends because they both did dangerous things, when they were in the forces.
I agree with Eric Maillaud, I’d be looking at liks between the eX-Legionnaire and the father of Claire Schutz, they may have been linked in more than one way?
Did the eX-Legionnaire-fireman
frequent the Sapeurs-Pompiers building adjacent to the Pharmacie Schutz-Morange?
BREAKING
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