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Michael, exactly ! The man above Le Martinet is a no go, no point trying to tie up his face with anyone else. That lead is now ice cold.
So their next lead is the man at the campsite, with the addition of the person who took the photo of the entire family in Chevaline.
I will not even try to follow the sighting of a right hand drive 4×4 !
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/chevaline-a-la-recherche-d-un-etrange-visiteur-25-10-2013-3257705.php
and then read this:
http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/1241581-20131025-20131025-tuerie-chevaline-mysterieux-inconnu-rendu-visite-a-al-hilli
Ce vendredi matin, Le Parisien, indique que les enquêteurs cherchent à retrouver la trace d’un homme qui aurait rendu visite à Saad al-Hilli la veille du drame. Alors qu’il avait posé ses bagages au camping du Solitaire du Lac à Saint-Jorioz, Saad al-Hilli aurait reçu la visite d’un homme mystérieux avec qui il a eu une conversation.
Good In Parts, on the Col front, Janin said it went towards and then back, the track there is just stones, he did not have the type of motorcycle suited for this terrain.
The official line was they were only looking for the Motorcycle seen on the Combe d’Ire and the 4×4, all other vehicles, initially more than a dozen have been traced (let us be kind and say some came forward).
They have found the man in the Portrait-Robot, it is obvious the timings do not match as they took him for further questioning to do with timings and whether he recalled anything else.
They had the same question regarding timings of Martin, he returned to France for just that.
They have a problem, even if they are not telling. This points to the Motorcyclist seen by Martin, leaving the Combe most likely at the 900 metre track, could have gone many ways from there.
Page 266, ‘There is also fresh data collated by police on both sides of the Channel that reinforces the idea the killer was someone who knew the area. If not a French or Swiss assassin, then a “low cost” hired hand who had done his homework sufficiently to make his escape over the other side of the mountain from Le Martinet.’
The “low cost” was mentioned many moons ago by Maillaud, the ‘both sides of the Channel’ is intriguing.
Peter, thanks for that, so Melrose/TP assumption that none heard the shots is most likely incorrect, I would say so too, because the accoustics trial would have been a useless excercise.
The post-mortems had been carried out, they had collected all the samples, they would have known if a silencer had been used.
It is damned hot today, 48°C in the sun and 42°C in the shade.
MN
You wrote “the E-FIT-SKETCH is of no use whatsoever?”
That’s right.
However there is the appeal for the RHD 4×4
M.
You wrote “This points to the Motorcyclist seen by Martin, leaving the Combe most likely at the 900 metre track, could have gone many ways from there.”
Hows about M B > main track > B du D > la combette?
@Michael Norton 29 Jun, 2015 – 5:51 pm
You attributed to me the view, regarding the protection of the identity of the Lyon motorcyclist, that this is a “COVER UP by FRENCH STATE”.
But I would not go that far. I am merely speculating that he may have influential friends who were able to delay the formal police interview and ensure confidentiality. I would further speculate that the French investigators were not happy about this, and sought to bring things to a head by publishing the ID sketch and issuing a call for witnesses. The somewhat grudging announcement in March declaring that he was unconnected with the murders, but that he certainly crossed the path of the main protagonists and that questioning would resume in due course after he had refreshed his memory, bears the hallmarks of an uneasy compromise. I am sure we have not heard the last of the man from Lyon and that his identity will come out sooner or later.
If this were a full blown “COVER UP by FRENCH STATE”, that would probably mean that the man from Lyon was an agent of the French state, which takes us back into the realms of espionage and counter-espionage. Those theories had a very good run in the immediate aftermath of the killings, but seem to have largely run out of steam. I personally think that proponents of the state sponsored murder theory are flogging a dead horse.
@ Michael Norton 1 Jul, 2015 – 12:32 pm
On the subject of “a robbery gone wrong” you asked (tongue in cheek, I guess) they were being robbed of zirconium. I doubt if opportunist robbers looking to mug tourists in remote parts of France would have zirconium on their shopping list, unless they hoped to steal zirconium plated I-Phones.
Mr Juicy, the sketch was revealed after Panorama announced one existed ! They were then forced to release it within a week or so.
It is said 80% of the spectacular arrest of Eric D was based on the sketch, his old boss or at least someone at the Mairie of Menthon St Bernard pointing out his likeness.
The pity for Eric D is by the time of his arrest he looked more like the sketch than he did in photos when he was still a Municipal Police Sergeant !
By his jowels he looks as if he has rapid weight loss, of course he had been ‘let go’ from his job and he had to move house, trying to recall, I think the neighbours said he had only lived in Talloires for about six months, there was mention of tenants so maybe he also rents the house.
This is a good link for background information:
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2014/02/19/chevaline-l-adn-du-garde-a-vue-ne-correspond-pas-a-ceux-de-la-scene-de-crime_4369595_3224.html
GIP,
Bossy says he came through Chevaline, he went back that way to arrive at the Duchers farm, where they waited and saw the Emergency Vehicles arrive, he also pointed out the winding route du Moulin as an escape route, but that is 3.3kms from Le Martinet, Bossy arrived within minutes of Martin, apparently.
Michael, the BBC and Panorama portrayed the motorcycle and 4×4 meeting at Le Martinet after the details given by the first Forestry worker.
Exclude this Motorcycle as the Lyon man and that is wrong, if it was him he was gone before the vehicle arrived very soon after, I doubt there was even 10 minutes (introduced in Panorama) between the first and second sighting of the motorcycle and the 4×4 turned around and left.
Not seen by anyone, because they had not started the climb, Bossy was over half an hour away, Martin still on the road from the Marceaus, Saad still mooching around the area taking photos, apparently.
You know the Lyon guy not coming forward sooner, in the McCann case something similar happened, the guy carrying the little girl, his daughter in pink pj’s, in the recent past he came forward realising it was him, still had the pj’s.
for your entretainment, a very interresting facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/pages/2e-REP-2e-R%C3%A9giment-%C3%89tranger-de-Parachutistes/527799170599543?sk=timeline
take a look at 04/06/2014
M.
You wrote “his old boss or at least someone at the Mairie of Menthon St Bernard pointing out his likeness.”
Do you remember Maillaud making a seemingly off-the-cuff remark to the effect that the E-fit appeal had had no substantive results, just calls like ‘it looks like our village policeman’.
Foreshadowing or disinformation? You decide.
Is Eric very, very, smart? Or a fool, used as a tool by those even smarter than him?
Coming up for three years now. . .
@ Bacchus
His body was found on the 3rd. Having him buried with military honours on the 4th would have been astoundingly quick. Still, it may just be possible.
If he really had been with the Foreign Legion, I am puzzled as to why they have failed to acknowledge him, failed to publish condolences and so forth. At first, I thought the reason was that he was some kind of Walter Mitty type, but that view now seems far-fetched, given that both Maillaud and his own sister keep referring to him as a former legionnaire. Perhaps, and this really would be quite damning, his former comrades have formed their own view of the case: owing to the legal presumption of innocence, he is entitled to a military funeral, but his name shall never be mentioned again amongst them …
I like this job.
I find interresting links between Marilyn and Helena Menegaldo (Elena Menegal’do). Russian and Paris.
Perhaps an other, but I can’t see exactly …
Recently someone posted that SAH was apparently very upset during the telephone call to the bank to advise them of his impending visit. Can anyone please give a link refering to him ‘sounding upset’?
The chronology seems to be ‘la visite d’un homme mystérieux’ then the phone call to the bank (apparently sounding upset) then the tragic events.
The other thing scratching away at the back of my mind is that I seem to remember reading somewhere that the visit to the bank was arranged by SAH for the very afternoon that he was killed.
I took this to be a mistake unless private banks open in the evening. However, when you think about Parry’s sinister suggestion, perhaps he never intended to get to the bank.
Anyone got a definitive date and time for the planned visit to the bank?
@ Good in Parts
Can anyone please give a link refering to him ‘sounding upset’?
That is in Parry’s book, p. 143: “Zaid also rejected the claim that on September 3, 2012 – just two days before he died – Saad called the bank to forewarn them of his next visit. He was said to be extremely disturbed when he made the call.”
Anyone got a definitive date and time for the planned visit to the bank?
At least I don’t. However, I can assure you that private banks’ “business hours” are extremely flexible and that “going to the bank” might well mean meeting your CRM for lunch, dinner, a drink or even an ice cream anywhere in town.
GIP
The thing is…. we don’t know if the MC was ahead or behind the ONF2 vehicle. And we don’t know where that ONF2 vehicle went.
Eric “alludes” to the fact that the timing between the arrival of WBM and the departing (or already there) shooter being tight.
This of course, he now has to do.
A key “possible suspect” was previously the MC.
However he has now been “99.9%” ruled out.
And so…. Eric has to conclude that the gunman struck AFTER the ONF2 unit and the MC departed the area (that being “passed thru the car park”) and BEFORE the arrival of WBM.
If you take WBM and MC/ONF2 as one single entity, then this is your timing. One “half” departs the car park….and the clock starts.
The “cross over” is WBM passing MC.
And the clock stops when WBM arrives (And “no shots were heard”).
So what’s that ? 2 mins ? 5 mins ? 10 mins ?
The two things about the timing that strikes me is the (official) information we know from the eldest daughter of SAH.
1. There was no one at the car park when they arrived
2. She notes seeing a “4×4”.
Point 2 is most interesting.
We “know” this 4×4 wasn’t the ONF2 unit. They said they only saw SM
And We know that a “large vehicle” was on the route that day. It was seen by WBM…but that is believed to be a Citroen van.
The conclusion is (could be) the Al Hilli family saw the BMW X5/3 ?
If so, when and where did they see it ?
It wasn’t at the car park when they arrived.
It was sighted by ONF1 way before SAH was on the route.
And it was never sighted by WBM (remember WBM believes SAH over took him).
It also was never seen by ONF2 (and by default, we ASSUME the MC).
A. If SAH “pips” SM “to the post” and arrives at the car park before him (“there was no one at the car park when the Al Hilli family arrives”), it is quite possible that the BMW X5/3 emerged from “somewhere” behind SAH and followed him there (BUT that doesn’t work as Eric says “SAH wasn’t followed).
B. If the BMW X5/3 got behind SM…and then was seen by the Al Hilli family (BUT that doesn’t work either….as SAH arrives before SM, so would have to overtake the BMW X5/3 somewhere on the route).
So where was it (we “think” it eventually went across the hills..and off).
I’m just thinking “deal with the BMW X5/3 scenario” as that has to fit with what is actually “known” !
Peter
Thanks for pointing that out. So, “he was said to be extremely disturbed when he made the call“.
That makes it even more incomprehensible that the bank ‘chose’ not to advise the police that SAH had called them to arrange a visit shortly before he was murdered.
Maybe ‘private’ banking means just that. I put ‘chose’ in quotes as it is possible that nobody actually made that decision per se but simply sat on their hands.
I suppose that ‘extremely disturbed’ is a matter of judgment. Maybe the super-rich ring up their CRMs regularly ranting, raving or merely off their faces on coke. I bet they have some stories to tell! Or not to tell, if they know what is good for them.
Still, I wonder whether the bank would have acknowledged that SAH was in a ‘state’ if the call had not presumably been recorded by SAH himself. There may have been a network record of the call to trace but perhaps the bank’s own recording of the call would have been unavailable for some ‘technical’ reason. I think we all believe that they had one.
Perhaps there was still time to meet up in the cool of the evening.
It would be even more ******-up if he had gotten totally paranoid and called them from a phone box to ask his CRM to urgently come meet him in a car park. . . .
I bet that call would be ‘unavailable’ if it were ever made.
James
Good post. I think I get it but I cannot do it justice right now. Shall reply tonight.
@ Good in Parts
I don’t think that “the bank” chose not to contact the police; it would have been the CRM himself who took that decision (for the good reason that contacting the police of his own initiative in this situation would have constituted a criminal offence in Switzerland).
Likewise, I don’t think that the call would have gone through the bank’s switchboard, but rather straight to the CRM’s mobile. What you have to realise is that most CRMs are mercenaries who keep switching banks every few years, taking most of their “book” (their list of clients) with them in the process. Hence, they are fiercely possessive of their clients. Often, they will keep the clients’ private mobile phone numbers to themselves, never putting them on file, they will encourage clients to call their own private mobiles, and often will prefer to meet their clients in locations outside the bank.
Maybe the super-rich ring up their CRMs regularly ranting, raving or merely off their faces on coke.
They most certainly do, even the merely rich. It is not unheard-of for people with *only* half a million Euros in the bank to ring their CRMs every single day. Some of them, particularly women, actively seek to befriend their CRMs, others treat them as concierges or life counsellors. As Kadhim’s account was a dormant one, it was not particularly lucrative to the bank (and hence to the CRM), not as lucrative as an actively managed portfolio. Still, Kadhim would have merited quarterly “How are you?” phone calls from his CRM, who will almost certainly be a native speaker of Arabic. Thus, it is not that the CRM would be some kind of faceless stranger to the family.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/588209/Ecuador-urged-to-hand-over-Wikileaks-Julian-Assange-as-police-costs-rise-to-11-5MILLION
My very humble apologies to the FRENCH STATE
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/587592/Lord-Janner-Prosecution-Alison-Saunders-DPP
It seems it is not just France who delays justice, wastes resources,
and panders to the AMERICANS.
I mean the UNITED KINGDOM
It does seem quite extraordinary, that the U.K. has spent more than eleven million pounds, camped outside the Ecuador Embassy, in London, to arrest Mr.Assange,
should he walk through the front door.
This is because he might have had sex with a couple of adult ladies in Sweden, who he thought were friends.
He has not been charged with anything, in three years, yet a European arrest warrant has been issued.
Yet a British politican, who may have abused children is not harassed for decades, they usually wait until they are dead before anything is said against them in public.
How awfully hypocritical of the British Establishment.
Again apologies to FRANCE.
@ Bleb 30th December 2013
Photo of Sylvain Mollier?
Thanks Pink & BB
Here is a screenshot from the F2 trailer:
http://postimg.org/image/phpo6ji2p/
Looks to be in a football shirt to me, in fenced enclosure (like a tennis court). Is that a school in the background?
Pink – question please: who or what is “deadzone”?
What if the strip Sylvain Mollier is wearing
was
RUGBY?
In case anyone thinks I’ve gone barking
I am thinking of the motorcyclist,
reported as being from
Lyon.
The bank appointment, Dario Zanni said Saad had made an appointment for later that week, but he died before he could make it.
I think this has been taken to mean it was for that day, using the information the girls were said that Wednesday was for them, their choice of what to do, makes it unlikely it was meant to be that day.
A return ferry was planned for the 7th September, so that leaves just one full day, the Thursday.
James, do you recall Fillion-Robin, the builder told Peter Allen through The Standard he saw a Motocycle and a green 4×4 before Saad passed ?
In TP’s book he says this:
“There were no other cars with it. I did not see or hear any other cars pass that afternoon”
Thinking of the ex- Mr. Iqbal-Jimmy
it is thought he might have died because he had heart trouble?
Or poison dart?
John Goldfinger Palmer, found dead in Essex
He was murdered on 24 June 2015 at the age of 64 by a gunshot wound to the chest.
The fact that he had been shot was only revealed during a POST MORTEM
as he had had open heart surgery which the wound was mistaken for
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Palmer_%28criminal%29
Once again our very humble apologise to the FRENCH police & Majistrates
we, too in England can be inept /corrupt
A week-long delay in realising a notorious criminal had been murdered has left police with a “challenging” crime scene, a senior detective said.
Paramedics were called to John “Goldfinger” Palmer’s home in South Weald,
Essex to reports he was in cardiac arrest on 24 June.
But
a post-mortem examination on 30 June revealed the 64-year-old convicted conman had been shot in the chest.
Essex Police refused to comment on claims the case had been “bungled”.
It has been reported that Jhn Goldfinger Palmer was as rich as the Queen
and owned a chateau in FRANCE
@Michael Norton
2 Jul, 2015 – 10:12 am
MN This is Deadzone it was the forum Max started when Marilyn Tomlins (known as MZT ) closed .
https://deadzone61.wordpress.com/tck-forum-public/
The place in photo you are talking about was identified by BB and is in the archive somewhere maybe someone remembers.
Codolet
An explosion September 12, 2011 caused the death of an employee, and injured four others. This has happened in a furnace at the site of reprocessing nuclear waste Marcoule. It was an “industrial accident” and not “nuclear accident”.
Has this entry, in Wiki,
from one year before The Slaughter of the Horses,
been “cleaned”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcoule_Nuclear_Site#2011_explosion
or is there really nothing further to say about the explosion in a plant owned by EDF, where weapons grade Plutonium is reprocessed, carbonizing one of their employees,
surely, after 3 3/4 years they must at least know the name of the victim?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14883521
If they do not yet know the name of the person carbonized, do they yet know how it all happened
or is it a MYSTERY?
@Pink
“This is Deadzone it was the forum Max started when Marilyn Tomlins (known as MZT) closed .”
And when Deadzone (known as DZ61) closed, the same trolls switched back to this blog. Who cares? A sting is a sting. Only posters who got kicked out repeatedly read my lips could complain. But they don’t.
Speculation is good, but in limited quantity. Without new facts, this thread may dry out as well.
M.
Busy so quick post – I thought that Suhalia had a flight back booked on the Thursday – I also thought they would need at least one overnight stop to get back to the ferry port – I think they stopped twice on the way to Annecy but then they did a bit of a diversion via Rouen – anyway don’t think Thursday was really free.
I think you think we all think for I think.
In this case I think the lack of information regarding Mollier and his past clearly points at him being the real target. Privacy is just an excuse I think.
Melrose
Guilty as charged!
In my haste I missed out an “I”. But I was wrong to be presumptious about the beliefs of others.
Plus, so many “I”s that it sounds like the last episode of ‘The Prisoner’.