The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Someone mentioned gypsum mines a page back. There are some unusual uses for old gypsum mines. This one in the US was a civil defence shelter around the time of the Cuban missile crisis in 1962.
http://www.caltelephone.com/lamps/gypsum_mines.htm
Hey, look what is found in gypsum veins: http://www.inxitu.com/new/pdf/Cranswickite.pdf
More fun with calcium (gypsum) and alloys:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pertab/ca.html
@Thomas –
Looks like the wife is the dentist,
Zainab Al-Jeboori
Andra Långgatan 44 413 27 GÖTEBORG
http://www.reco.se/zainab-al-jeboori
Perhaps moved now to
Mölndals Tandakut AB
Hagåkersgatan 2, 431 41 Mölndal
tenuous link back to no 55..
Worth re-reading
Post from MollieMalone re caravans #1185
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1061040714
@Thomas
any idea what M means before Saleh Suhaila Al-Allaf at flat 1102?
http://www.ratsit.se/BC/SearchSimple.aspx?Where=H%e5lv%e4gen+6%2c+14753+TUMBA
Seems like Ulf Nordin and her are a different generation from everybody else in the block. Quite a few Turkish people in the block.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2217000/Alps-murders-Saad-al-Hilli-family-shot-dead-near-Chevaline-shortage-theories.html?openGraphAuthor=%2Fhome%2Fsearch.html%3Fs%3D%26authornamef%3DDavid%2BJones
I am probably way behind the curve compared with most of you guys ‘n’ gals, but it seems to me that if “a security expert” and Chatham House representatives seem so keen (see Daily Mail) in their usual manner to point the MSM’s finger at Iran, I would be suspicious of that (to quote Omar Khayyam) ‘moving finger’. I also would be suspicious of Craig Murray’s security contacts who, he said (on the previous, 6,000+ post-long) ‘Al-Hilli’ post), told him that they knew nothing about Al Hilli. That now seems difficult to believe.
The people here have done excellent work, by the way, it now seems highly likely that Al Hilli was involved in deeply secret work and that that work may well have been related to his, and his family’s, deaths.
In other words, it may well have been Iran, but the fact the professional liars who feed the MSM with ‘insider info.’ seem so very keen to point us all in that direction itself makes me suspicious. I also think that someone was trying, early on, to throw Craig Murray off the scent (see also under ‘Norman Baker and the David Kelly case’).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213982/Did-Iran-spy-French-Alps-murder-victims-satellite-firm.html
@ James 14 Oct, 2012 – 1:12 am
“Felix…
To “tie” that all up.
He was “ex RAF” not airline retired.
He likes getting out on his bike.
He likes “hiking in the Alps”.
His accountant firm…isn’t in Brighton.
Make of that what you will. I have.”
Gareth Williams was also an avid cycler, but only a half-dozen photos of that, and another half-dozen family pics, no snaps with friends. He was into fell running, mountaineering and extreme survivalism, zero pics of those, though he is mentioned in fell running pages.
SM and BM are cyclers, no verified pics. Is BM on the BBC the “real” BM at Chevaline?
Like SM, there were many versions of what GW did, either top-notch crypto expert, a threat to Russian billionaire mobsters and other money launderers, plus Iran and AQ, or an unimportant lowly code writer.
“In the midst of lurid speculation, Ian and Ellen Williams reached London. In normal circumstances, they would be required to make a physical identification. However, given the degree of decomposition, police would rely on family photos.”
They didn’t do DNA? Which opens the possibility that 6 extracted him, or he extracted himself, for his safety and is sitting on a mountaintop in Tibet.
@Suhayl
Agreed, especially since (@Tony’s link) the Daily Mail article takes at least 2,500 words to not mention William Brett Martin. He must have some very influential friends.
The french prosecutor is about to return to dealing with stolen lipsticks for three hours of his working day
{http://www.24heures.ch/monde/tuerie-chevaline-tourne-boucle-tete/story/28078247}
SAH was convinced that his father’s will had been forged
{http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Crime/article1147687.ece}
BTW, I don’t have a shred of evidence for this, but it has always seemed to me that the most likely explanation for the father’s “vanishing” for six days would be that one of his sons got hold of him and persuaded him to rewrite his will. I would furthermore suspect that SAH was the one who did this, which would be consistent with him and his wife recently assuming control of the father’s bank account in Geneva. To my mind, SAH appears to be the real “control freak” in that family, not his brother.
Just cannot believe this endless drivel where no impossible stone, say, are left unturned while those which might be relevant are ignored or dismissed.
@CD
Wants evidence that the murders in France are connected to those in Eilat last week but is unwilling, along with everyone else, to examine the causes of Bill Hershkovitz’s growing, violent dispute with chef Armando al-Abed, willing to leave the matter to those who claim it was work-related, and those who claim Bill was a rabid racist.
Seems it was both – his working for the Jewish Agency for Israel which recruits Jews through its Iranim program to work for the Mossad, and his boss, noting and commenting about his increasing hatred of Arabs, especially those who are Muslims.
Then the murder of Hershkovitz was totally unnecessary, and the only way to explain it away is that he was part of a Mossad operation, the most likely known of which now is what happened to Muslims who were massacred in France.
And to accept the investigation of Bill’s killing to the JAI and its boss Natan Shransky is an outrageous coverup.
It’s like asking the American Mafia to investigate what covert Agency operators like William King Harvey got its goons to do to JFK, MLK, and RFK.
I am writing an article about the connections between the two massacres no matter what you chose to look at or ignore.
Oh, thanks Peter for coming back while I was writing my previous post after you went missing after all those porkies you posted about Hershkovitz’s stay in Israel, his conduct there, and my theory about what really happened in France and at Eilat.
You are something else!
@ Trowbridge H. Ford 14 Oct, 2012 – 10:25 am
Completely agree that Israel’s self-investigating processes are designed to cover up rather than bring the truth to light (viz the bulldozer killing of a human rights activist and subsequent investigation).
Israel has a reputation for causing the totally unnecessary deaths of people, maybe it’s not so surprising in that culture that Hershkovitz is yet another statistic?
You may be absolutely right about the recruiting role of the organisation you mention. However, such recruitment best functions in the context of an organisation that also actually does what it says it does. So, say 1,000 people go through the programme each year but only a fraction of those would be recruited.
I’ll read your article with an open mind and it would be great to see your sources and links that make the connection to Chevaline.
ok re the RAWI accounting firm.
Chief man there is a Bipinchandra Chandrakant Vyas.
Vyas is also a company secretary for Fajr Al Gulf UK) Ltd
There is one director listed for Fajr Al Gulf (UK) – Ghasson El Hibri – he’s Lebanese.
The interesting aspect of this is that Fajr Al Gulf is an extremely large insurance company. It seems very odd to me that this small time accountant should be company secretary for the UK registered side of it. Even if it has a small presence in the UK it seems an odd choice for him to be co sec of it.
Fajr Al Gulf is on wiki. It’s now part of a group after a merger but Ghasson El Hibri runs the show for all of it too.
Another large company in the group is KIPCO.
Yes, that too is interesting, CD (at 10:01, 14.10.12). Thanks. I note that Iran recently has been boasting about sending drones into Israeli airspace, via Hizbollah. They are probably trying to warn Israel not to do anything rash. However, this kind of game of blind man’s bluff is extremely dangerous and the whole situation urgently needs to be defused. The US Presidential election is not a good time for all this to be happening. One senses that the US and Israeli security-intel mandarins want to degrade Iran (Iraq-style) before attacking, but that the Netanyahu Govt is eager simply to attack ASAP. It seems to be about timing – ‘when’, rather than ‘if’. The Al-Hilli dynamic might be related to these dynamics.
KIPCO (it owns a bank too)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIPCO
More news: http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/tuerie-de-chevaline-la-famille-al-hilli-ne-se-sentait-pas-menacee-14-10-2012-2231717.php
(…) Selon une source proche de l’enquête, « la famille Al-Hilli a musardé sur les routes des villages avoisinants sans se presser », comme en témoigne une série de trois photos prises à 15 h 15 par la grand-mère, Suhaila, 74 ans, dans le hameau de Arnand, à deux pas de Chevaline. Posant devant les fermes et chalets les mieux décorés, les membres de la famille apparaissent souriants et décontractés. « Ils s’arrêtent à plusieurs reprises comme une famille en promenade. (…) Quant au véhicule tout-terrain vert, vu par le cycliste anglais qui a découvert les corps, il est acquis qu’il s’agissait bien d’un engin de l’Office national des forêts dont le conducteur a été mis hors de cause. Ce qui intrigue bien plus les gendarmes, c’est cette moto franchissant le col de Chérel dans la soirée du drame, toujours recherchée.
Thanks Peter
English translation
“According to a source close to the investigation, “the family Al-Hilli has piddled around on the roads of the surrounding villages without rushing “, as evidenced by a series of three photos taken at 15:15 by the grandmother, Suhaila, 74 years, in the hamlet of Arnand, to two not Horse. Posing in front the farms and the best decorated chalets, the members of the family appear casual and smiling. “They will stop on several occasions as a family for a walk.”
That 3.15pm time blows the builder out of the water with his “they passed an hour before the shootings”
Also, according to the same article, the green 4×4 seen by WBM has been accounted for and ruled out of the enquiry (as belonging to the Forestry Service). However, police are still keen to trace a motorcycle seen passing through the Col de Chérel (i. e., a few hundred metres south of the scene of the crime).
Could that have been 15-year-old Melvin on his unregistered 125 offroad bike riding “a big detour in order to evade all control”?
{http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Faits-divers/Actualite/Le-scenario-minute-par-minute-de-la-tuerie-de-Chevaline-555890}
@ peter
BTW, I don’t have a shred of evidence for this, but it has always seemed to me that the most likely explanation for the father’s “vanishing” for six days would be that one of his sons got hold of him and persuaded him to rewrite his will. I would furthermore suspect that SAH was the one who did this, which would be consistent with him and his wife recently assuming control of the father’s bank account in Geneva. To my mind, SAH appears to be the real “control freak” in that family, not his brother.
…………………………………
Could be…but if Saad was the one to dispute the will then the original must have been filed upon the father’s death, and presumably not the forged one.
If they can’t tell which is the proper will then does that indicate that all of the wills found in the caravan had the same date on, or even weren’t dated at all?
Perhaps Saad was enlisting or planning to enlist the help of an expert at the Swiss bank to analyse the wills for validity?
Loose translation…
When Saad al-Hilli with his wife, two daughters and stepmother left the campsite of Solitaire du Lac Saint-Jorioz (Haute-Savoie) in the early afternoon of September 5 they did not feel in danger. The Al-Hillis, British citizens from Iraq, seemed like a happy family on a peaceful holiday in France when they were executed above the village of Chevaline.
Nothing suggests they had an appointment that day at the top of the forest road in the Combe d’Ire. This is what emerges from the investigations of the police of the research section of Chambéry, working hard to try to unravel the mystery of the killings, which also claimed the life of a French cyclist, Sylvain Mollier. Only two girls, Zeena and Zainab, escaped the massacre, perpetrated with an automatic gun of the Luger type.
According to a source close to the investigation, “the Al-Hillis were not in a hurry, dawdling on the roads of the surrounding villages,” as evidenced by a series of three photos taken at 3.15pm by grandmother Suhaila (74) in the hamlet of Arnand, close to Chevaline. Posing in front of the nicest farms and decorated cottages members of the family are smiling and relaxed. “They stop several times on a family walk. They were obviously not on a scheduled appointment on the valley of Ire, “says someone close to the investigation.
A search of the mysterious motorcycle
Another element is that analysis of the father’s mobile phone did not reveal troubling communications, according to information from M6. Only a message to Saad about the delayed return to school in Claygate (Great Britain) of the two girls. The father had made a call to the campsite to confirm his arrival at Solitaire.
Pending the collection of any valuable information after the appeal for witnesses launched earlier this week, the French and British investigators continue their investigation. Friday, British police officers again interviewed Zainab, age 7, the eldest daughter, who survived her serious injuries. A long psychological approach is being taken in speaking to the child under judicial protection, to try to discover what she saw.
Meanwhile, on the same day, a judge of the court of Geneva visited both French counterparts at Annecy court. One million euros was seized by investigators in a Swiss bank account belonging to Saad al-Hilli, corresponding to his share of the paternal inheritance. Funds undoubtedly sheltered from the covetousness of his brother Zaid, with whom he was in conflict on this hotly contested legacy.
As for the green all-terrain vehicle, as seen by the English cyclist who discovered the body, it is established that this belonged to the National Forest where the driver was exonerated. What continues to intrigue the police is a moto (bike?) crossing the Chérel pass the evening of drama, still being sought.
@ Dopey
In the absence of facts, one can only speculate. Usually, AFAIK, there are only two ways to make a valid will: write the whole thing yourself by hand and observe a few legal formalities in doing so, or go to a notary-public and have him draft and witness the will on your behalf.
Now, if they have found multiple wills and cannot tell which is genuine, that would tend to rule out the notary route. Thus, we are probably talking about handwritten wills here – and that gives rise to an interesting angle. The father was suffering from Parkinson’s Disease. One of the earliest symptoms (often the first symptom that sufferers really notice) of Parkinson’s Disease is a change in their handwriting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrographia_(handwriting)
If he was suffering from an advanced stage of Parkinson’s, I doubt that the father could have handwritten his entire will (or if he had, it probably would have been illegible). Thus, we are probably talking about typewritten wills with a spidery signature underneath, which might (or might not) be the father’s. I very much doubt that a Swiss bank would be much help in solving that riddle.
Came across this forum. In spite of the name, intelligent speculation, suggesting, with the multi-billions involved, it’s as likely to have been a corporate assassination as a state one, and at the bottom of the page, a thing about a film-maker who at least has same name as neighbour Jack Saltman.
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=announcements&num=1347056926&action=display&start=30
They have this link, if nobody’s seen it.
http://www.sea.co.uk/Aerospace/Partners.aspx
Regarding wills, here is some more information
http://spain.angloinfo.com/money/pensions-wills/spanish-wills/
I think the salient passage is: (…) Spanish law isn’t usually applied to foreigners and the disposal of property (buildings or land) in Spain is governed by the law of the deceased’s home country unless there is a dispute among the beneficiaries, in which case Spanish law is applied.
If Spanish law is applied, it indeed boils down to either a notarized will or a handwritten “holographic will.”
if the report saying the family photos were taken at 15.15 is correct, this means the family were shot very shortly after their arrival at the lay by. i think it is about 5km from Doussard to the lay by, so they could not have got their much before 3.30pm. Destroys the witness statement of the builder but ties in with the reported sounds of gunfire at 3.30pm. Given that BM must have been there by 3.40pm, there is a very narrow timeline.
According to a source close to me, I have just had a cup of tea.
What’s all this “source” stuff.
The police don’t want to put their name to it….as it can be denied ?
“Are you looking forward to your first day at school love ?”
“I have some bad news for you….you’re not going. We’re off to France with granny…camping”
“But who’s granny? Have we met her before?”
This green 4×4.
Bill lives in the area. Walks in the area and cycles in the area.
But “didn’t notice” that the green FOUR x FOUR was just like the ones used by the “forestry people” !!!
Hold on ! 10yrs in F4’s. Weapons Instructor. BA four bars. Training four bars. Sim trainer…..and he didn’t notice that the “forestry vehicle” that past him…was just like all the other “forestry vehicles” in the area !
“I was concentrating on my pedals” !!!