Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278


The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?


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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis

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  • Peter

    Just to clarify my own thoughts on this. I can only think of three possible ways in which the AHs, SM and their killer(s) could all have ended up in that lay-by at the same time. (A) a chance encounter (B) a prearranged meeting between the AHs and their killer(s), possibly also with SM – meaning that the killer(s) could have come from any direction and waited in the lay-by for their victims to show up (C) the killer(s) trailed the AHs and/or SM to that lay-by.

    I really don’t see how a 4×4 could have trailed the AHs or SM unobserved. Thus, usage of a 4×4 would rule out (C).
    Therefore, we are left with options (A) or (B). Both are possible with a 4×4.

    In fact, if this were a vintage espionage thriller, the AHs, whilst ostensibly taking their family snaps, would have been checking for unobtrusive signs (a chalk mark on a tree, a crushed can of coke lying by the roadside) left by whomever they were planning to meet indicating that the meet would go ahead as agreed.

    The trouble with (B), though, is that it would have required extremely precise timing. The route along the lay-by is far from isolated; it is crawling with cyclists. If somebody had been waiting in that lay-by for more than a few minutes, the chances are that some passing cyclist would remember seeing a car parked there.

  • intp1

    Q) If you are BM and involved in covering up the real events, why would you even offer up the 4×4 and the motorcycle? (unless you were certain they werent involved). If they were in the frame you wouldnt. But if the the people/vehicles involved were something else (A white 205?) you might make them up.

  • Katie

    Peter I think he was in it with Mollier not the killer, he/Brun was in the same line…….

    Which is why I think him & his black Pajero were killed , that his death was not an accident.

  • Ricki Tarr

    If it was a meet it would have to have been a face to face, if not they would have used a DLB or dead letter box!

    The easiest way to follow the family would have been by motorbike, also that is the way I would have wanted to make the getaway, youre not tied down to mountain roads but can go off road or down walking paths, im suprised they havent been searching for this bike as I would imagine it was dumped somewhere!

    To go with a lot of the posts yesterday concerning RAF man being security has anyone seen the message on the Al-Hilli facebook page, I read it a while ago but just seemed to be some fantasist but it makes me think now –
    This is the message:

    Mesbah Ihsan
    Mr Saad, you were a high profile arab scientiest who asked and got the MI5 protection from fear of elimination by Mossad (just like the 125-150+ eliminated iraqi scientiest since the iraqi collapse), sorry it still turned this way….God bless and be with your daughters and all…thank you for all your hard work. Merci

  • Katie

    INT.
    Because two separate things were happening,espionage yes but killing was a different issue with Saad & wife being the targets.
    I think they were killed for something they knew unrelated to the meeting with Mollier & Brun …… IE: Iraq or more precisely, an Iraqi.

  • Ricki Tarr

    Also check out Fa Tbastard profile pic on FB – ive mentioned his name before when I noticed his posts on Twitter!

  • Peter

    I’m pretty sure that Mossad are laughing their heads off at this – free advertising! The next time they try to lean on somebody, all they need to say is: “Remember what happened to that british-iraqi family who were shot in the French Alps? That’s what happens to people who refuse to cooperate with us. You wouldn’t want somethig like that to happen to *your* family, would you now?”

  • Ricki Tarr

    The other real thing we havent uncovered is the website or message board Saad was posting on, I know why people havent investigated too much but do you think its worth it?

  • Mochyn69

    @Ricki Tarr
    15 Oct, 2012 – 11:16 am

    which is what CM says right at the beginning of this thread, and Anders has said since DAy One.

  • Ricki Tarr

    Fair play to em Mochy, lots of water under the bridge since then thats why its good to re-read!

  • Mochyn69

    @Peter
    15 Oct, 2012 – 11:21 am

    Don’t you think the Mossad have a fearsome enough reputation already as it is?

    Especially if you’re an Arab scientist??

  • norfolkeagle

    Ricki
    I don’t believe a word of that story of Saad posting on islamic message boards. the same as searching his house with the bomb sqauad and the taser, all smoke and mirrors.

  • Ricki Tarr

    Better to look into the mirror and prove that its real before we make that decision, theory needs to stop and we need to find the evidence to discount it first.

  • Peter

    @ Mochyn69 15 Oct, 2012 – 11:32 am

    I have just finished reading “Spies against Armageddon” by Dan Raviv & Yossi Melman. According to the authors, one of the key benefits of killing those comparatively few iranian nuclear scientists was that chinese and russian nuclear scientists thereafter chose to stay at home, even though the iranians offered them a lot of money for help with their nuclear programme. Solely north koreans nuclear scientists are still desperate enough to work for the iranians.

    A chinese proverb recommends “killing the chicken to frighten the monkey.” If somebody else has killed the chicken and you are merely suspected of having done so, so much the better.

  • Katie

    I believe it Eagle, everyone points to Mossad without seeing other factors,but I don’t believe the chat rooms are relevant to his death. Most Muslims are pro Palestine so he’d be no different.

    I feel AH was more concentrated on helping his country…….as he said, ‘ Iraq is still warm’.

    Add to that the resentment of his family losing most of their wealth when they fled, would you not try to regain something …… at least try to find those responsible ?

    Saddam didn’t act alone.

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    As I also said to Anders7777. Every time you recount fact of the matter stuff regarding Israel or Israelis ALLWAYS remember in the same post to condemn them and wish that their country is closed down. It is all about giving Israelis a bad feeling about themselves (if somebody are lurking in here).

    As it is, Peter’s post above — whether intended or unintended — will have the effect that same Israelis just can sit back and smile. Promise me ALWAYS to tell them — just before this smile starts to move up the chins, to CUT THEM BACK TO SIZE and tell them what despicable creatures they are, going about killing scientists, FOR GOD’S SAKE!.

    And this from a people referred to elsewhere (in the ME for example) as “people of the book”. This will come back to haunt them for ever, be sure of it. And WE can help make sure this happens sooner, by ALWAYS deeply critisise them for their dispicable Modus Operandi, which have NO PLACE among civilised people.

  • James

    Peter…

    So they are looking for the 4×4 and the motorbike (from the report)..
    …the motorbike on the pass further ahead of the forest road and carpark.

    The pictures taken at 15.15 in Arnand. The alarm raised at 15.48.
    Billy had moved the girl AND check Mollier AND shut down the car.

    Arnand to Chevaline to carpark. Billy arriving, moving people and then leaving and meeting “Didierjean”.

    25 shots at four people …and headshots. And then escape.

    Whoever they were, they were fast.

  • Mochyn69

    @James
    15 Oct, 2012 – 12:09 pm

    It must have been like the M25 up that forest mountain track ..

  • James

    AND oddly…

    “Didierjean” was carrying the same “PROFILE” of passengers in his vehicle, that Sa’ad was carring !

    One male, two females.

    Just an observation.

  • norfolkeagle

    I am quite happy to be proved wrong, Gary Aked has only to come forward and corroborate his story, that is the only source we have.

  • James

    Mochyn…

    For a “quiet carpark” that no one goes to. The place was as busy as hell that afternoon.

    And oddly two cars carrying one male, two females.
    …and two cyclist !

    Plus TWO motorbikes (one heading north, the other south) and a 4×4.

  • Katie

    Did anyone see this:

    Steve McQueen: A Passion for Speed by Frederic Brun (1 Oct 2011)

    Was the guy in the Pajero really named Frederic Brun or did someone think of it because of this ?

  • bluebird

    Ken

    Yes, it was the Jewish branch of the PIRA !
    Man, you need professional help

    +++++

    @ames

    I support your message! Obviously everybody here who isn’t attacking and ranting people just because of race or religion is called being an Irish christian pro-zionist. Although I love Ireland and Guiness, I am far off Ireland. My birdie nest is most likely much closer to Peter’s location, as everybody with a sane mind must have recognised already, simply by reading my birdie-like English “grammar”.

    I would really prefer if moderation could stop any kind of personal accusations, trolls, and particularly racist messages here, otherwise that board would lose any kind of seriosity and the serious birds would leave.

  • Felix

    @Dopey
    “did not” = “did” according to my translator….

    @Ricki

    Did you oheck up on the profile of Mesbah Ihsan?
    Very interesting
    http://people.bayt.com/mesbahabuassi/

    Aquantima doesn’t seem a terribly active company
    {https://www.duedil.com/company/07454322/aquantima-ltd/people}

    So Zainab, fractured skull and bullet in her shoulder was hauled up into a helicopter. OK.

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