The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Misspuddleduck
“Doubt a professional hit man would use an old gun era 1900 – pre 1945”
Yes, very sloppy and unprofessional !
No one saw them there, no one was then leave, no road block ever picked them up, there is no trace of them whatsoever.
Yeh…very unprofessional that !
Nuid, at 11:45am on 30.9.12:
I agree with you about the huge variation in eye-witness accounts of even a simple occurrence. If ever you’ve tried to recall something, as in a quantum effect, the more you try to recall it, the more it changes. Plus, you often recall things later which you couldn’t believe you could have forgotten. The mind is a very strange thing. Ever forgotten where you parked your car and then remembered, only to realise that that was where you’d parked it one day last week? How often has one’s partner told one that, they absolutely, definitely, told you something and you are convinced that they did not? Then, later, you remember…
It also is surprisingly easy to hallucinate – not florid things like the Eiffel Tower or George W. Bush, but little things like a name on a map, or a cartoon in a book, what someone said, old dreams that one is no longer certain were not real. It’s a little like distant radio stations that suddenly emerge from underneath another. This used to happen more on old, valve radios, and was mysterious and enticing. What is real, and what is not? What is, what was, what will be? Thinking, and being. Beyond the end, there is no end. Aye. Truly, it is the realm of… ‘The Twilight Zone’!
Dopey…
Re you Hezbollah links
http://homeland.house.gov/sites/homeland.house.gov/files/Investigative_Findings_Iran_Hezbollah_Threat.pdf
The U.S House of Rep report on the subject. Its “the brief” on it.
The last point is quite interesting.
The issue is, the “MSM” aren’t reporting on it in the U.S. (or Europe I guess).
It is from the U.S. Govt (!) so that could mena it is true…or false !
But it’s interesting.
@ big daddy
Other than what I posted last night I’ve nothing more. So far just a common address – 11 Devizes Road, and the AMS initials connection too.
Very little to be found on James Scharff )or his fellow director and brother Richard). Scharff seems to be a German name, with a lot of them living in the States. There was a high ranking Nazi Scharff too – their chief interrogator.
I’ll continue digging though.
…and here’s the news no one ever heres !
From both sides !
America has “delisted” the MKO from it’s terrorist list.
This means, I guess, that America can deal with them. That’s odd !
Iran are not pleased (I have the IRNA, the Iranian official news agency release).
Mean while, in the rest of the world, the Israeli news reports that “lawmakers” want the E.U. to put Hezbollah on the terror list.
France (oddly) veto this.
America (I believe) have them on their terror list. (but not the MKO).
The “quiet war”, as I am coming to see….rolls ever onwards.
Sun Tzu. Fight a war, before it’s ever fought.
..and where “(the middle) East meets West” ? Is Dubaishire !
Doh !
“ever heres” ….is of course “ever hears” !!!!
Why is Dubaishire relevant ?
It’s where Sa’ad met his Iranian girlfriend that became his wife.
Not in Surrey, where the postman didn’t know him !
Sun Tzu, “the use of spies”.
“Doubt a professional hit man would use an old gun era 1900 – pre 1945
Yes, very sloppy and unprofessional !
No one saw them there, no one was then leave, no road block ever picked them up, there is no trace of them whatsoever.”
You’d have expected them to go for something newer and possibly more reliable not to say cheaper. Lugers are easily available in countries where it’s legal to sell them but prices start at $1,200. Sending one person with one gun with an eight round magazine to kill an entire family doesn’t sound very professional either. Mossad sent 27 agents to kill one Hamas leader in Dubai and three gunmen were sent to shoot Jerry Bull. In neither case was there any attempt by the British media to cover up Mossad’s involvement which became obvious from the start.
There may be a somewhat more prosaic explanation why some witnesses heard gunshots whereas others didn’t. The masons working on the british family’s house located along the way to the parking lot are reported to have used a jackhammer on the day. Thus, presumably, they also used hammers and chisels for the more detailed work.
To the boy riding his motorcycle in the woods (with a helmet on?) and to his father trimming hedges in a nearby village, a vigorous burst of chiselling on the part of the masons *might* have sounded – in hindsight – like a series of shots being fired in quick succession. Witnesses closer to the scene would have been able to tell apart the sound of chiselling from the sound of gunfire.
Apropos of nothing in particular, I was looking up what a “caveat” to a will meant.
A lot of the mainstream media reported that Saad was so angry with Zaid over the inheritance that he took out a caveat to block the will going through probate, or something to that effect.
And at least one paper reported the opposite – that Zaid had taken out a caveat against Saad!
Well, apparently all a caveat is, is a way of being sure that you are notified when probate is granted, so that you get 8 days to take legal action IF you object to the probate.
So caveats don’t block anything at all, they just give you notice that probate has been granted.
If they’d wanted to block anything they would have had to take out an Injunction which is a horse of a different colour (as they say in Oz).
Sounds like the mainstream media made a mountain out of a molehill with that one.
:rolleyes:
Probate Caveat. ~ A probate caveat is a written notice to the Probate Registry, the intention of which is to prevent a grant of probate from being issued to a third party without warning being transmitted to the person who filed the notice and thereby entered the caveat. The person who benefits from the probate caveat is known as a caveator and they must, within 8 days of receiving notice of a third parties intentions to obtain a grant of probate in their favour, take legal action otherwise the caveat ceases to have effect. This means that the person who files the application may effectively obtain extra time to make enquiries and to obtain such information to determine whether or not there may be sufficient grounds to oppose the issue of grant of probate in a court of law, in favour of any particular person. A probate caveat must be filed before the day that an application for grant of probate is received or it will be of no effect and once granted a caveat lasts for 6 months whereupon it must be renewed. Extreme care must be taken to ensure that the deceased exact name is used in the application for a caveat.
http://www.contestedprobate.co.uk/caveats.html
Chisel = gun..? Brilliant.
Kempe, Peter…
Guys, do you not think you’re looking for the “magic bullet theory”, like in the JFK case….as in the car clearly stopped.
In that a reload is and was done. (this is proven).
One gunman, two gunmen, why a luger, why a Skorpion, why 21mm rounds (or is that 22mm).
This was a “professional” hitman (hit team).
They (he or wahtever) had malice of forethought that they could kill and escape, without being being stopped.
The “who” is (I think) important.
You’ll correct me if I am wrong here…but how will the gun lead anyone to the killer(s) ?
James, at 5:26pm on 30.9.12:
Absolutely. And the USA also supports Jundallah, which is still on its own terrorist list. So does the Pakistan military.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jundallah
A Caveat…or a “beware”…or rather, “be aware”, would be raised in such a “complex” will. I would imagine.
There is “no love lost” etween these two.
But I cannot see Zaid “taking out a contract” on his brother.
Pissed off…most likely, BUT to kill… I cannot see that at all.
My money is still on the “ongoing silent war”.
Even more developments in which have happened. (unreported by the MSM).
Oh…and Katie Price has a third nipple !
And David Beckham hates cheese…but small spice likes cheese !!!
Suhayl.
You (a scholar) can see where I am going (or it is taking me) with this.
Those are recent “news”.
The MKO (as far as the US are concerned) are no longer “terrorists”.
You know the saying “One mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter”.
Dubaishire has been a “hot bed” for this.
Look at “the curious case of” Mr Amir Mirza Hekmati.
Iran nor the US want a war. But on both sides there are thosethat do.
I believe that “where’s my dinner dad” (a joke there) is actually quite rational.
Howver…he can no longer be “elected” under Irans constitution.
…the next “dude” (guess who he is the son of ???) is making his way up the ranks. (and for those that do not know, it’s not the current “CEO’s” son)
Sorensen, the iraq wars were in shia interest. In fact allawi and the dawa organised both iraq war for the americans and in return the americans allowed them to take power in iraq. Iran, however, is different. The shia have great cooperation with iran and they will start to hate their friend usa as soon as they allow israel to attack iran.
@ James
I would agree that the killer(s) came with malice aforethought (and enough ammunition / spare magazines to carry out the plan). Reload? We don’t know that yet. Only if all the bullets were fired from the same gun. Professional? Ho-hum. Certainly one or more callous bar stewards, but not terrific shots and somewhat unsubtle in their approach.
Regarding the gun(s), I don’t know how much of the ballistics report will be released – or how truthful that information might be – but, in theory, it could tell us a great deal. Usually, ballistics experts can not only identify the make and model of the gun used, but also which production batch it belonged to. This, in turn, would enable that gun to be traced to a particular dealer or consignment. Likewise, from the amount of gunshot residue left on the side windows of the BMW, they ought to be able to determine whether or not the gun was equipped with a silencer.
If it turned out that a single Swiss Army pistol was used in the killings, that IMHO would strongly support the “local nutter” hypothesis. If it turned out that two or more silenced guns were used, that would point towards state-sponsored assassins.
Ok re Access Management Solutions Ltd – the locks company owned by James Schutzz (an accountant) which has government/defence contracts….I’m virtually certain this lot are behind the AMS series of companies too.
Schuttz had Access Management Systems Ltd too (co reg no 05174475). It was created 8/7/04 and dissolved (went into admin) on 11/10/11. It was listed as an accountants. Its final registered address was one and the same as Access Mnagement Solutions.
The Access Management Systems Ltd which was originally registered at 11 Devizes Road SN1 4BH was created on 3/6/1995 (reg no 03015863) and dissolved 7/5/2008. It was also listed as an accountants but no accounts were ever filed. Some of the other AMS companies including Saad’s (and AMS 5670) were registered with this same Devizes Road address. The last registered address for this company was at Delta 606 SN5 7XF – which is the address of AMS Accountancy Ltd.
It’s a complete rabbit’s warren, but there is definitely a link between them all, with this Schutzz I reckon behind them all or originally.
Interesting to know how Schutzz, a not particularly successful accountant with little background to go on, suddently switches to security with gocernment contracts and can also rise so high and quickly to be a speaker at a counter terror expo in 2013.
I could dig for hours, but I’ve seen enough to smell a rat.
sorry its James Scharff, not Schutzz.
PS Saad’s AMS 1087 Ltd’s registered address was also the address of AMS Accountancy – Delta 606 Welton Road Delta Office Park Swindon SN5 7XF.
So that old Access Managemt Systems Ltd and AMS 1087 ltd had the same registered address- that accountants.
Peter…
I agree. If one. If two. And how much (if true) is released.
Although I did do a quike search (way back when) on those…as the MSM put it, rare bullet casings…and on ebay, you can buy at will.
Which gun (or guns) were used ? You know as well as I do, there are many, many guns in circulation (and that is not with the “hoodlums”).
I would note here…I have flown in Africa (hour grabbing), and everyone carried a Beretta 98 (it was a “non military” weapon…as you could not carry military bullets).That’s only my experience. It’s nickname (and I have no idea why…was “The Pilots Gun”… I think s it was standard issue with Navy Pilots in the U.S.)
Oh !
Just a thought.
What if the gunman (singular) had two !
That’s why saying..”he reloaded” is a bit rubbish.
One gunman, three reloads…would say ?
Two gunmen, one reload….
We have “no idea”.
More over, how many times was mollier hit ? That would be more relevant, regardless of “weapons used”. (five or seven ?)
Or how many (exc the taps) did Sa’ad get ? (he was the driver)
Dopey…
When did sa’ad become a director of this off the shelf co ?
Appointed company secretary in 2007.
The company was created in December 2000.
Dopey…
Yep. (well late 2007). And the Co was “trading” by then.
So what does that tell us ?
Dopey…it tells us
AMS, is an off the shelf Co, bought later by “the scooter shop guy”.
Saad has clearly met him (bought in…but with no cash..as it’s a rubbish Co)…and it’s done nada.
But it does tell us, Saad not bothered about “getting into” things !
@ James
What if the gunman (singular) had two !
Now that is getting a bit fanciful – possible, but unlikely. If there was only a single shooter, who had worked out this scenario beforehand, he would have strapped the extra magazines to the forearm of his master hand (using either the kind of “tactical magazine holder” that US gun magazines are so fond of, or simple rubber bands). Who in his right mind would leave *two* sets of ballistic traces behind him, when the intersection of those sets would lead all the more surely to him?
I think he was defo a bit of a wheeler dealer to put it mildly.
And, aside from whatever got him killed, I don’t thnk he was the saintly family man he was made out to be either.
The brother definitely seems to have got the shitty end of the stick, living in a £85k flat above a chippy (ok I made up the chippy for effect) – it must be no dez rez at that price and in the South. Yet Saad said the brother was the manipulative control freak. I’m rather thinking it was the other way round.
Peter…
Mucker, I just throwing it at you.
So one man, twoweapons is a non runner ?
So one man, reloading ? Or two men ?
Or one man…and a back up man (a tech often used “you watch mine”).
You have to come up this a “theory” of how. Then it can be debated.
Dopey…
I have “done the books”, head to toe.
And I agree with you.
Now think what Gary Aked said (radio 4).
So tell me this, where are the “other” Co’s he speaks of ?
He knows. So does “they”.
Hence I say “we are way behind the curve” on this.
My guess is “in Dubai”.
He mat and dated his wife there… His books for an IR35 contractor don’t look great (well, not when he was dating Iqbal).
So that says “one” thing. He wasn’t in the UK !
Then the “postman” says the same thing.
Next qestion (if you agree with the above) where as he ? what was he doing ?