The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@ Tim V
Excellent questions.
The ‘firemen’ are in fact ‘sapeurs-pompiers’- the rescue and fire service and it would be natural for them to be first responders.
Hi again “Katie
15 Oct, 2012 – 3:58 pm” Caroline’s killer was in fact arrested in Florida. This is the Wikipedia entry if you haven’t seen it. He had lots of similar “modus operandi” logged to his account in Europe, which should have thrown his name up earlier. All humans are very much creatures of habit as we all know.
Wikipedia:
“Montes was tried and convicted for the murder of Caroline Dickinson, a Cornish schoolgirl he attacked on July 18, 1996 in youth hostel in the small Breton town of Pleine-Fougères, France. He had been arrested in Miami Beach, Florida in 2001 on suspicion of nocturnal sexual assault of two Chilean backpackers, but state authorities put their proceedings in abeyance so as to extradite him to France. His arrest followed publicity surrounding the inquest held in Cornwall as a result of which his name was published in a national newspaper. Tommy Ontko, an immigration official at Detroit Airport, picked up an edition of this British newspaper and having read the story checked federal IT systems which eventually led him to the fact Montes was in custody in Miami Beach. Having confirmed as far as he was able this was so he contacted the French authorities.”
Ah Katie, you are in Brittany. Lucky you!
Breizh da virviken!
Thanks for this “Mochyn69 15 Oct, 2012 – 4:08 pm”. My question would be then why is it “natural” for these fellows – ‘sapeurs-pompiers’- to be first responders to a reported shooting. Isn’t it generally accepted you ALWAYS send armed people to such on the grounds the shooter might still be around? My next question is how far did they have to come, where were they based, and what time did they arrive? Why because getting from Chevaline alone takes about a quarter of an hour, depending on speed obviously. Let’s assume the quoted times are accurate – call 3.48, arrival at about 4.00 – this gives the first responders a maximum 15 mins say, which would require them to be on the “doorstep” as it were, and immediately able to respond. Would the people taking the call be prepared to send them into potential danger unless they knew it was safe? And now finally consider the fifteen minutes response has to include the time it took to take the message itself, ldentify the isolated location and dispatch appropriate units to a chaotic crime scene. I doubt all that could be done in less than five minutes do you? All rather strange.
Thanks for that correction Tim.
Yes, so had that chap in Detroit not been so bright I doubt Mondes would ever have been caught certainly not by the French. Well done that man !
M,
Mais oui, fortunately not so many murders around here………that I know of, but if the police came to look at my computer I wonder what they’d think of all the terrorist searches I’ve been making !!!
Didn’t BM or someone say the emergency vehicles passed them on their way back up the mountain ?
They must have come from Chevaline.
@ “Peter 15 Oct, 2012 – 4:01 pm” Didierjean, who incidentally was not even acknowledged for four days, is described as “living locally”. He is quoted himself as saying he was driving up the Combe d’Ire with two female companions (we do not know what happened to them or his car) he meets Martin coming down on his bike at “about 4.10 pm”. There then follows Martin’s attempt to explain what has happened in a state of “panic” and using “pigeon French”. This must have taken up at least 5 mins. They then both return over “about 50 yards” to the lay-by, perhaps another 5 mins. So even if Didierjean had a mobile on him that had reception, he is unlikely to have been able to phone until 4.20 pm at the earliest (4.10 + 5 + 5) if his timing is reliable, and I haven’t seen it challenged. Now if we were to add no reception at the lay-by and all the things he says he did, it makes the 3.48 time even more impossible.
Tim wrote 4.27
Yes in the US where you have 30.000 killed each year. But not in Clouseau land. French speakers can ponder about whether the word “feu” is not involved in both a shooting and a fire, just like elsewhere.
@ Tim V
Could you kindly provide sources, not merely your own interpretation of those sources?
You have 30.000 killed each year by guns. This is interesting in itself, and try to contrast it with the few hundred Americans that have been killed due to terror since 9/11, and you will agree that something is wrong with US priorities
RAFman said that emergency serices passed them as they were coming back DOWN.
He said they arrived quickly because they already had heard of the shootings- via radionet.
So, where they already nearby when they intercepted the news via radionet? Or had word gone round about the shootings before even rafman/didier made the call?
My take on it, going by BM’s interview, is that emergency services already knew before they got the call
Thank you, Tim V. I think your last paragraph sums up why so many of us are still here on this forum, following “L’affaire Chevaline”, or the “Chevaline Scandal; Part Two”. The big picture is what’s at stake for all of us.
Please note more recent information that has arisen in this forum, as I am sure it will be of interest to you. One irony is the location of metallurgy research at a university which had at least one RAF/MOD connection, very near “55”. That type of research could tie into Mr. al-Hilli senior’s “gypsum factory”. Could it be an incredible coincidence that “L’affaire Chevaline deux” is also a nuclear missile scandal?
Even spies don’t always get assassinated. Look at the ones charged recently in the US and Canada. Whatever the targets at Chevaline were up to, it must have been very important and in need of immediate action in the minds of some people. Embassy staff rushing to the scene after the fact: this alone tells us the situation is not normal.
Finally, I think the method used at Chevaline was because it would be too obvious to drown all the targets at once. I followed the case of Lachlan Cranswick, an Australian scientist who worked at a former Manhattan Project site in Canada. As in this story, there was no outcry or discussion between Australian government officials and the Canadians, as far as we know. The media in Australia took little interest, and quickly moved on. Of course, the scientist’s brother in Australia worked in pharma research and had received funding from the Murdoch Foundation, for what it’s worth.
As in that case, those with a vested interest in the story could be hoping the technical nature of the professions of the victims is too overwhelming for Joe Average to understand. Many of the same tactics have already been used here for Sylvain Mollier and Saad al-Hilli. The parallels are remarkable, IMO, especially since Cranswick worked in materials science, as did SM and SAH. It seems the same strategies are being recycled. Why reinvent the wheel? Yes, I do wonder if this is all related.
When you search google for
“le dauphine sylvain mollier frederic brun”
Then you will find a pdf with condolences and a photo of frederic brun with text. Would somebody with good french translate that text please?on the photo he looks much older than 35.
@Tim V
From Kim W in the Guardian
He then went back down the hill leading to the Alpine beauty spot near Lake Annecy to call the emergency services
Seems like she culle it from Le Parisien. is there a link? I can’t find it immediately. Can anyone?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/11/french-alps-shooting-cyclist-girl
@Mochyn69: High purity. That is just what the nuclear industry likes.
Baghdad Gypsum factory mentioned here. It was established in 1946 and was the first and only factory in Baghdad.
Maybe 1946 was a bit soon for Saad’s father, unless he started it up straight after uni (if he went to one that is)
http://www.shuaaggi.com/industrial.html
@Bluebird
15 Oct, 2012 – 4:55 pm
URL?
Is that phillipe didierjean?
http://www.juricaf.org/arret/FRANCE-COURADMINISTRATIVEDAPPELDEPARIS-20080407-04PA01022
More of that regarding a didierjean
http://www.juricaf.org/recherche/rapporteur%3A%22M.+Philippe++DIDIERJEAN%22
Coincidence?
I can’t find any link which gives a time when PDJ called the emergency services. PDJ seems to have spoken exclusively to Le Parisien but apart from the 3.58pm log there is nothing to indicate it might have been later.
Fwiw, until we see M. Didierjean or his two companions, I don’t see any pressing reason to believe he exists or if he does that he wasn’t another “minder”.
There’s also a German forum on the Chevaline murders
http://www.allmystery.de/themen/km92914-48
Vier Tote auf Waldparkplatz bei Annecy
Mochyn
I have no ides how to get a url of a pdf from google to my mobile phone. Enter exactly that search string i posted and the pdf will be your first search result.
Felix check my links about rapporteur phillippe didierjean regarding police work and french courts. Coincidence? Do they believe that we are stupid?
Could somebody with good french explain please what exactly a rapporteur is? Is it a private detective or a kind of state attorney in french legal systems?
Ok. I know what a rapporteur is. Philippe didierjean is a rapporteur.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapporteur
Am i surprised? NJET!
@Peter: No need to follow anyone in a vehicle. Already discussed. A simple GPS tracking device, perhaps the one built into his vehicle, or following the targets via their own cellphones is all that would be needed. Of course, if they got into an area without satellite coverage or cell towers, someone might have had to rush to find them.
It is still dumbfounding that someone like SAH could not have known how easy it is to track Smart phones, etc., given that Smart phones are one of SSTL’s satellite platforms. Back to the old question: did the targets carry Blackberries, hoping thir security features were enough? With SAH’s obvious technical knowledge, he could have wired his vehicle’s GPS through a dummy circuit to disable it, yet not trigger his vehicle’s security chip. Was a magnetic tracking device attached to his vehicle by someone?
There’s a minor point I wanted to bring up as background. In a recent spy case elsewhere, a man has admitted to spying for the Russians, and said that they had pictures of his children. I guess children are not off limits in keeping a spy in line nowadays.
Bluebird.
Don’t laugh … this is a direct translation form Bing…nick name Twig, I agree he looks older than 35 but not impossibly so !
“Frederick Brown
said “twig”.
He said: “If God wants to shoot me by ‘.
hair me up to the
«Paradise, it is won’t happen. God
finally arrived there, and has
recalled to him, 29
September 2012.
His sudden disappearance we
leaves a huge empty, but
our hearts are filled
never of wonderful and
unforgettable memories.
Small nicknames he had
usually we give,
and his worship expressions: “Ca”.
“not to do”, “all the.
stars are not to
‘Hollywood’, ‘ Indian y’ has ‘.
more, but the arrows y’ has
“yet’, ‘y’know, what,”
“Story to tell”, “you see this.
“that I want to tell you”, will remain
in our memories.
All, we will remember
of ‘Twig’, as of a being
joyful, generous and
attentive.
“Twig”, forever in
our hearts and our thoughts.”
Katie
I have those computer translations too. But they make no sense. I wanted somebody with native french translating this for us.
Dopey, it could have been his father’s or a family business before Kadhem owned it.