The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Dopey, yes true, but what about PAYG , can calls be tracked the same ?
http://cryptogon.com/?p=31822
This is a better translation of the story “Belgium: Exxon-Mobil Manager Shot Dead” can anyone with time see if there is any other reliable source for this story just one will do.
Tim/AW
I’ve just watched the BBC clip again , I haven’t done so for a couple of weeks. Today, I’m even more convinced BM is so very unnatural.It could be my internet speed, but I swear the last half is dubbed, the sync between words & lip movement is not right.
However, I do think he’s the good guy trying to convince us he was not involved in the meeting, his assessment of the scene & his priorities are all wrong, no way would you attend to that child before going to the car :
A] To shout et the driver to stop…….
B] Switch off the engine.
He was already acting as though he knew the driver was dead & trying to convince us he knew of nothing, he failed.
I’m convinced the truth is, he was supposed to be at that meeting & arrived late, on arrival he knew there had been a shooting, he immediately understood the scene he surveyed but is bluffing in that film……..because he is Mi5.
Pink.
I have searched a number of news online & nothing all comes from that one translate.
The story just can’t be found & it’s not a new one,days old in fact.
Very odd.
@felix
Noticed! BBC quotes Achmad al Saffar who is the “brother in law” of Mrs. Suhaila.
Actually, those could be two different Achmads. There is an Achmad al Saffar living in Dundee,UK (age 38). The other Achmad is apparently living in Sweden.
Those names are great if the press would release their complete names but not just the Western part of their names. If we had the full names, then we could verify their statements about family relations. However, even then if we knew about who is who we would not be only one step further.
@Katie
Regarding the Taser in an airplane I had the same *LOL* like you had. Of course, we are going to Heathrow next time, checking in for a flight to Iraq(!!!) with an illegal Taser in our bags. Whether or not the Taser is in our handbags, we would face a serious problem. Even on a flight from Gatwick to Manchester we wouldn’t have a chance to avoid police inspection with a Taser in one of our bags. Except, well …. perhaps except …. we would carry an ID pass issued by MI6. We should perhaps think about such possibilities, too.
On the other hand, why would MI6 want to travel with a Taser? And what for would a Taser actually useful in Iraq where almost everybody of the good ones carries his own Kalashnikovs at home and where the really bad ones carry bombs and anti-tank devices in on their backs?
@katie
Dopey, yes true, but what about PAYG , can calls be tracked the same ?
++++
I am not dopey. However, I can assure you with the knowledge of my profession, that the traffic, the phone number, the IMSI and the location of a PAYG phone can be tracked the same way as it is possible with registered phones. The only thing to consider is that with a PAYG it takes approximately one day longer to investigate the identity of the buyer. And yes, you can track the travelling route and the usage of a PAYG not unlike a normal mobile phone (as long as it was turned on).
PAYG makes no sense for hiding something. Today they are using most recently stolen mobile phones for that purpose. Immediately making 3 calls and throwing it away immediately thereafter. That way police has got no chance to track any phone users except if they had CCTV in that location where the phone call came from. However, if they are experienced criminals or even intelligence members, then they are smart enough to avoid such errors.
Katie
Yes, they can get a call log for a PAYG in the same way. As long as they know a mobile number they can get call logs (incoming, outgoing calls and texts and the content too of ny texts)) for it.
Katie, firstly, you sometimes mention your forum. Can I possibly ask where this is? Is it a public forum? Thanks.
Secondly, one would have thought that if Brett Martin viewed your profile on Linked In under his own name – and that is a little chilling – that might suggest that he’s not a spook. If the spooks, or a spook, wanted to get your details or check you out, you wouldn’t be aware they’d even done it. Alternatively, doing this it might be a way of letting you know that they are there, watching, but again, it’s unlikely they’d do that through a known person with his real name and so on. It’s worth remembering that whether or not he was advised by the police or whoever to withhold some details from the media, if he’s not a spook, right now he’s probably terrified.
Morning Bluebird.
Journalists !!
RE: AH Photos.
I asked the BBC chap TS, yesterday whilst talking about AH, if he’d any ideas why no photos have been shown of the women…. his reply;
‘ Women? The wife you mean ?
The wife would be hard to get a picture of ‘.
I think we can give up on him,he complains he’s short of time……..yawn !
What is noticably absent from reports about the mobile phones and usage whilst in France is the fact that there were two mobile phones.
Either both of them were Saad’s, and neither of them were used, or only one of them was his and his is the only one being reported about.
So, both phones his? Or was one of them Ikbal’s? If the latter then no calls to or from hers either?
Who usually gets the job of school and child related jobs? It’s usually the mother is it not? …arranging dental/doctors appts, school runs… telling the school the children won’t be in today – that’s usually the mother who does all that, especially one who is a housewife.
Katie
Your BBC journo may have some distractions currently ….Jimmy Savile related ones. I doubt much else is on any of their minds at the Beeb at the moment than that escalating fracas.
@Katie
How many Maddie photos had we seen in the Sun? Hundreds?
I wonder why we don’t have a report about how those kids are doing, particularly the said to be injured one. It’s said that they are in a secret place?!? Whether there are or there are no pictures displayed, our British journalists and papparazzi seem to have changed their business tradition most recently.
They found photos on their camera where the family is smiling? In any other case of public interest those photos would be handed out to press immediately. Not here, I am afraid.
@dopey
I wonder why there weren’t 4 mobile phones
1 for Zainab, one for Iqbal, one for Saad and one for grandma. The normal family on a holiday trip would have 4 mobile phones. The 4 year old was too young for a phone, otherwise there would have been even 5 phones. Two phones only are rather below average for a modern family coming from a modern Western city near London.
Morning all…
if Brett Martin viewed your profile on Linked In under his own name – and that is a little chilling – that might suggest that he’s not a spook
Well… maybe, maybe not. He’s still supposedly an honest bystander in the eyes of the public, is he not? General hero etc etc. So why shouldn’t he view someone’s profile? Maybe he thinks Katie wants flying lessons, ha ha.
In any case, I think it’s high time we exposed what we know about “Brett Martin” – eh Felix?
😉
I think we can give up on him,he complains he’s short of time……..yawn !
BBC = British Propaganda Corporation
It’s a very good point about that Italian man, Pink. Because the others have digged up something about an Italian man with connections to Saad and Elekta. We must wait for the others to be in.
Italian/Balkan-looking man = Pietro Malandrucco? Hmmm….
Suhayl.
Yes it did shake me a bit.I’m not in the slightest bit worried, but I noted that although I put France,it has located the nearest town for me in my profile.
You can certainly tell when someone has checked your Linkedin profile, there was a red dot on the flag,which caught my attention,I did hesitate to click it because being new I had no idea where it would take me.
So that means everyone here will have left a trace on the pages they checked too,like the names running down the righthand side!
Presumably he now knows I’ve been back . LoL !!
The other blogger I mentioned is here,he’s a Turkish muslim:
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/metinyilmaz/tag/islamo-fascists/
@ Pink:
http://www.glaronia.com/2012/10/17/belgien-manager-von-exxonmobil-mit-zwei-kopfschussen-ermordet/
Exactly the same text – just in German. But, there’s a link of a meeting in Asia…
– Just wondering, in case AH was frightened about ???? and left for France- so why a caravan on a campside? Me personally, I’d would rather prefer to stay in a large hotel….
– May be AH was offered a better (payed) job in ???? and he was up in the hills with the whole family incl. Granny, because his new “bosses” had arranged a secret helicopter flight that afternoon … to get them out of Europe?? Before that he went to Geneva to get some money from the account. If that money was for the “new life” or for SM – who was there as well to give/say/show him something he needed to know for the new job….
Just speculation – and sorry if already been mentioned
Italian guy:
Here is a photo of Pietro in a suit. Shouldn’t we present that photo to the campside visitors for verification?
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/41465_811634520_3956_n.jpg
I found two intriguing friends on his facebook website:
Alia Sabha Alam who runs two companies in the UK
http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/916609456
The second friend is obviously a collegue at NATO:
Procurement Specialist Lgt. Raimondo D’ONOFRIO [email protected]
oh-oh… big sorry, I’ve overseen that the link had been mentioned at that crypton page… getting older ;-))
@atie
yes, as soon as you are registered at linkedin and as soon as you click at a profile, the user can trace you back and invite you. That does not appear as long as you search linkedin as an unregistered surfer. However, trust me and my experience: As soon as you post on this board or anywhere else on the internet, every intelligence is able to find out about who you are in less than an hour. Of course, normal criminals cannot. However, in that case we are NOT dealing with average criminals who are from the pub nextby. We’re dealing with intelligence sources and security professionals.
So what about him going to a wi-fi connection/internet cafe to use a Skype phone or an ipod touch which can be used as a phone, could that also be tracked ?
There’s an internet cafe in Ugine.
@ bluebird
Granny may have been a technophobe due to her age and never had a mobile. My mum is ten years younger and, whilst she does have one, I’m not sure she knows even how to switch the thing on.
A 7 year old is a little young for a mobile so I’d be more surprised if she’d had one than not.
I think that’s a good connection Ferret.
The guy would fit the description given, I bet he wears black shirts too !
He looks like those bodyguards we see around top politicians, I wonder if he ever has a photo taken without the shades.
katie, look at the photo of Pietro in a suit I had posted from his facebook site (see further up here).
Has that photo been taken at a camping site? Well, no! Just wishful thinking. Probably a picture from his wedding.
Yes BB we are talking about sophisticats of the cyber world, especially AH the expert.
What about using a proxy,that’s easy enough & away from ones own network ISP.
Can that also be ‘easily’ traced or would it be too much effort for the French ?
Hang on BB, that ‘could’ easily be on at the campsite, maybe unlikely because who would have taken it ?
But do remember the witness said ‘smartly dressed’. as Italians are.
To me the campsite owner said something odd, ‘ he was an Italian who came to use the pool for two days & then flew home’.
I get the impression she knew his real purpose,a word in her ear that he was ‘looking after’ the AH family,nothing wrong with that,could be the reason AH switched sites, he checked into the wrong one , the other one refused to play ball or was not good enough for the ‘shades’ ?
katie,
he could use VPN/TOR etc. Using one proxy only wouldn’t help a lot. However, as far as I know, most internet cafes won’t allow their computer settings being updated in such a way.
Of course, VPN is traceable, but requires more sophisticated research and it delays research. He could have used VPN on his phone. However, that would just hide his conversation IP. It won’t hide his IMSI. VPN/TOR is only making sense when you are using that with a landline phone connection. A mobile connection would simply cover your IP but it won’t cover your IMSI during your mobile internet connection. The latter is the one that leads police to the actual location of your telephone.
Tim,
A few things
-I dont believe that BM made the first phonecall to the emergency services. I think someones suggestion that he used his satellite phone to contact his bosses (before doing anything else)who then made the call at 3.48.
-Philippe D +2 were never there they werent mentioned initially and were a fairytale afterthought.
-Ricki Tavi was told by a journalist that Zainab was found prone on the bonnet of the car. If that is untrue why lie?
If it is true, it may explain the dent on left centre of the bonnet, maybe from her being shot/pistol-whipped.
Almost none of the witness evidence that has so far been released corroborates with each other.
eg the 2 bricklayers suggested they went up the road about 2.30-3.0 per [http://scotlandyard.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/al-hilli-crime-scene-timeline.html]
How can the photos be correctly timed then??
So the facts that we can use or just those that werent ‘fed’ to the press. I believe very few neighbours (& Accountants) comments from Claygate but the postman’s video seemed believable and apparently not a controlled release of information.
Why do we not know one of the simplest fact about this case – Where was Saad’s bike found?? A straightforward question that doesnt want to be given up because it prevents manoeuvre room for the ‘official’ story.
Okay, thanks, Katie. But where is YOUR forum? Is it a ‘My Telegraph’ blog, too?
I think that’s a good connection Ferret.
Fair dues, it was Ken’s idea.
Maybe someone could email the suited pic of PM to the Dutch camper, and see if she can recognise it? She gave her name to the press… can’t recall now though. Last time I looked there were like 10 matches on LinkedIn, I think…
It was actually the female manager/receptionist* at the Camp site who said: “No, this was not someone from the Balkans, it was an Italian man, who stayed for a few days and now has flown back to Italy” [or something to this effect] .
It would be typical for such a receptionist to issue such a blunt and honest rebuttal of some misunderstanding which had arisen, without thinking any deeper about whether or not this was wise to say, because the only thing that mattered for her was to correct the misunderstanding. But by giving the odd information out, that the man had flown home again after just 2 days I think she shows that this cannot be a constructed tale. A civil service who wanted to control what flowed out of her mouth (supposing that was possible!) would not plant a story that in itself is a little suspicious: I mean, a man that draws attention to himself and is at a campsite for only to days, and then flies back. This means of transportation is very unusual for campers.
—
*)
This means that it is the receptionist you shall contact. This makes the verification process much easier than if you would have to look up some Dutch campers, who are now back in Holland.
I could imagine she is sick and tired of people telephoning her at the moment, so personal contact would be the best**, – but alas: Security services reading this will try to tell her not to speak with anyone,- so on this count it would be better to contact the Dutch campers.
**) An alternative method would be to get Mr. Jones, the journalist from The Mail (or was it The Mirror?), who to this date has been the one able to dig up the most elaborate stuff up about this affair, including (apparently) contacting a spokesperson from the plant in Ugine, and getting confirmation that Mollier was indeed a senior production manager, something that Peter from this forum was first to propose.
I don’t believe the family were doing a runner, I’m sure I read the police found a computer in the caravan, why leave it behind?
I still have a problem with BM being a spy or minder, why do a TV interview, it’s not like people were begging to see him.
The other guy that BM ran into hasn’t appeared on TV.
BM more than likely came from a well to do family in NZ, St Kentigern
College is one of NZ’s top colleges.
I agree with Dopey, wouldn’t expect 7 year old to have cell phone or grandma, especially when in a foreign country on holiday.