Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278


The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?


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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis

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  • Ferret

    LOL!

    😀

    I meant, I’ve only ever had dealings with one school and found it relatively easy to ask for and get time off… FOR A FOUR YEAR OLD!!!

  • dopey

    Pink
    18 Oct, 2012 – 7:27 pm

    Thanks Pink. Interesting. I wonder how much truth there is in that.

    I can’t think how they’d know from forensics/ballistics that Saad was outside the car when the gunman started shooting. That’s not to say they can’t tell – I just can’t think how.

    How they could know however is because the 7 year old has told them.

  • Katie

    Interesting Pink, someone has put that together as an explanation for the child being out of the car, but it could be true that Saad was doing some business/chatting to Mollier when the gunman arrived, this still ties with my theory.

    Gunman arrives starts shooting Saad jumps into the car in a panic, a stray bullet bounces off the windscreen hits Zaineb who I can’t help feeling was on the car.

    It’s all possible, but it’s ‘why’ & the reason for the shooting we need to know.

  • Ferret

    @Dopey

    How they could know however is because the 7 year old has told them.

    Thanks for that – good thinking. It didn’t make sense when I read the original (how could they tell that from ballistics?) but now it does.

  • dopey

    Ferret, I can’t see Saad rushing back to the car and leaving his daughter behind though, but it would tie in better with the fact that one daughter was outside the car- because she was outside with her dad.

  • Pink

    Maybe he shouted at Zainab to get in the car and she got hit by the bullet whilst trying too ,its heartbreaking to think about I hope they catch this killer soon.

  • Pink

    “Saad al-Hilli managed to regain his vehicle but was executed in his seat. His eldest daughter, meanwhile, was seriously injured when she tried to flee the abuser.”

    The way this is worded kinda leans toward either Zainab running away or could literally mean Getting away from the abuser as in he had hold of her .

  • dopey

    Whether true or not that article isn’t half a poignant reminder of what those two little girls went through isn;t it …and what they still have to go through, without their mummy and daddy 🙁

  • Pink

    Yes Dopey it is, the morning I heard about Zeena being in the car all that time after the murders I just burst into tears its not hard to realise the terrible anquish that they all must have gone through and its so sad that they cant know the girls are safe now .

  • kathy

    @ Dopey

    “So Saad had the Claygate house, tight control over the Swiss bank account and early reports suggested the brothers were in dispute over the Spanish apartment too.”

    Makes you wonder if Zaid had a different mother. That would also tie in with the fact that Saad’s mother wanted him to have the house – if it is true that is!

  • P_

    Pink – the sentence is open to interpretation, I’d say, just as it is in English.

    “Sa fille aînée a, quant à elle, été grièvement blessée alors qu’elle tentait de fuir l’agresseur.”

    “As for his eldest daughter, she was seriously wounded as she tried to flee from the attacker.”

    Incidentally, the machine translation “mother-in-horses” is actually “… his mother-in-law at Chevaline” (“…sa belle-mère à Chevaline”). Glad to get that straight.

  • Pink

    @P_
    Thanks P so the word is attacker and not abuser somehow that sounds more like running away ,it could still mean he had hold of her, abuser would to me indicate close contact.
    I will think about it not the sharpest tool in the box here 🙂

  • Pink

    @Felix
    Thanks for those links a bit more on that story it doesnt seem to have made much headline news .

    @ all
    Before I retire for the night I saw this translation on Marilynstomlins a story on the 9/9/2012 seems very relevant its tricky following up these stories when I cant read french someone might find something.

    “We reported in our last edition of the attack was victim Annecy circulating Albigny Avenue at Lake Annecy in the night from Thursday to Friday.

    It was 3 am when the driver, eastbound Annecy driving his Clio, was doubled by another vehicle.

    A 4X4 dark which is immobilized before it, forcing it to stop, up to the city administration.

    According to our information, the passenger 4×4, registered in the Isère, then descended the vehicle. He was hooded and holding a handgun.

    Frightened, the driver then switched into reverse and immediately fled. ”

    Link for article:
    http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2012/09/08/la-conductrice-a-ete-menacee-avec-une-arme

  • Ruby

    I’m extremely interested in the fact that the bank account hadn’t been touched for a long time.
    As someone mentioned the amount in the account was so similar to what Saad had talked about in his deal.
    Wasn’t it official that Saad had been to the bank that day, surely
    it’s not a stretch to assume he was there to find out how to get his hands on the money.

    Perhaps someone thought he had actually got the money or was close to getting it and it was time to act.
    Then we have the story about 3 versions of the will, it seems to me money and wills was Saad’s biggest problem not nuclear weapons etc.

    We seem to have got so bogged down here with complicated theories, why not go back to K.I.S.S and work from there.

  • Tim V

    A bank account with no deposits or withdrawals a significant story? And strange don’t you think that personal banking details with no relevance can be published, yet a photograph of the victims that may assist in the identification process are with-held because they are considered “morbid”? This story only emphasises the dearth of hard facts or leads. For example what of all the calls made on the two phones found in the car? What of all the mobile calls made in the vicinity of Chevaline? The French Police would have us believe that the only one they’ve found is one from the school enquiring the whereabouts of the Al Hilli children! Then there is the fundamental point about the first call at 3.48. Mr Martin says he tried to use his mobile but couldn’t get reception, yet Mr Maillaud still holds to the statement that Mr Martin made the initial Phone call at 3.48. He must know that it was impossible, so one can only conclude he is not telling the truth about a crucial point. If he cannot be relied upon for this, how can we believe anything he says? Similarly with the latest “red herrings”: The “green 4×4” a forestry vehicle for example. Don’t you think it would be possible to trace a public-body vehicle after six weeks? Similarly the new photograph, which has not been released because it is too “morbid”. Have you ever heard such rubbish? If indeed the photograph is genuine at 3.15, they MUST have passed Mr Martin on the mountain road and he has never suggested that and indeed there would physically be insufficient time for the killing to take place! Well I never!

  • Tim V

    When there is such a dearth of reliable information we are forced to make the most of “crumbs”> Earlier on to day I had another look at some of the Maillaud interviews on You Tube and elsewhere as a thought had occurred to me in the middle of the night. Whether they are significant or not I leave you to decide. One hopes Maillaud is sound, he certainly appears plausible but how can one have faith in a person who contradicts the principal, yet makes no attempt to explain why or how it could be? He is presumably a legal man, who specializes in spotting a conflict of evidence at a hundred yards. Does he consider his duty to his political masters a greater priority than to truth or justice? If he does he is not fit to hold his office. “Olifant at 4.16” quotes from what I assume are translated French sources. They contain new information that is most interesting particularly in relation to distances, gradients and times. (I am not quite sure if these come from the articles or are his own) It looks as if the first is a day after, whilst the second is a week later (13.9.12) and thereby fuller particulars. I previously raised the issue of the time WBM set off (2.30) and posed the question “How long would he take to get from home to lay-by?” Up to now everyone had assumed he arrived at 3.45 but maybe it was significantly earlier.
    He quotes the article as saying “BM said he « set off at 2.30pm, as usual, » presumably from his home and would have arrived at the start of « the climb » by 2.45pm reaching the Parking by 3.15pm. ” You will notice this is a full HALF HOUR EARLIER than previously thought. If the newly reported photo of the Al Hilli’s in Doussard at 3.15 is correct, they could not have arrived before about 3.45. So we have the startling fact in this scenario the Martin would have arrived half an hour BEFORE Al Hilli’s! But we should not over look the conflict of the builder witnesses reporting the Al Hilli’s passing at 3.00 which of course would mean the 3.15 photo must be fake unless the camera was still set to British time i.e. one hour behind. If the police have the camera this would be easy to settle as would the relevant times, so why don’t they give a definitive account and clear the matter up? Of course the other implication of these timings (i.e. BMW village 3 pm, WBM up the Combe 2.45 – 3.15 the Al Hilli’s MUST have passed him at almost the end of his journey OR he arrived before them, yet he does not mention it. It raises the very real possibility if this were the case of actually witnessing the slaughter!

  • Tim V

    I started the last post intent on talking about Maillaud’s interviews but I got distracted. As it’s already 2.30 I shall have to leave it until tomorrow. I bet you can’t wait! lol

  • Q

    Speaking of GPS, Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd. made this announcement:

    http://www.pddnet.com/news/2012/10/surrey-satellite-technology-secures-contract-space-gps-receivers

    “Surrey Satellite Technology US LLC (“Surrey”) announced a contract for the batch production of its industry-leading SGR-10 Space GPS Receiver. Surrey also announced the selection of Aeroflex’s division in Colorado Springs, Colorado, as a strategic partner for the in-country manufacture of electronic assemblies.”

  • Katie

    RE: the will.

    We all know probate can take some time,a minimum of six months I believe. Kadhem had many assets stretching from the UK,Iraq,France & Switzerland…these we know of & there could be others.

    This means probate will take longer than usual, in addition Saad inserted a caveat to stop Zaid doing anything.
    Well , think about that, if Kadhem died in August last year that was just a year before this tragedy so even without the caveat I doubt either could have got to the bank account yet.
    So no surprise to hear the account was untouched.

    IF, Saad went to the Geneva bank, could he have simply wanted to introduce himself & find out the details of the account, he doesn’t strike me as a money oriented chap.

    I’m intrigued as to what the next move on the will was going to be, when & for what was Saad going to lift the caveat ?
    How does that work, brothers inheriting an ‘equal’ share of a will but one can block the others half ?

    That doesn’t sound right or legal to me, I suspect Saad was to have a bigger share & that’s what Zaid is miffed about, can anyone answer that question ?

    Kathy said maybe they had different fathers, I mentioned that too on the old thread, they look so different.
    I have a feeling Zaid is the son of a [ killed ? ] relative… rescued & brought to the UK with the family & brought up as a son/brother.
    Maybe he didn’t even know until the father died, it would also explain why the mother left her share of the house to Saad.

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    It was some very interesting information bluebird gave out yesterday concerning mobile phones and how easily they can get tracked. When you corroborate this information with similar given earlier by Peter, where he talks about taking the batteries out and placing the phone in a tin biscuit box () as an additional precaution, I would like to ask bluebird or anyone else, how can the phone communicate with something without its batteries, since this additional precaution is necessary?

    Running all this information through my brain — which as I’ve said earlier is equivalent to a Commodore 64, but still are able to come up with something, it just takes a little time (like a good nights sleep) — what you get is that since mobile phones has become so small today,

    1)</strong Listening devices that are so small as a pin or a button — and which can communicate over a telephone network (I said deliberately a because it needn’t be the official commercial networks) — must exist and used already – perhaps I have one in my room – or have had.

    and

    1) Such small devices could easily pe attached to a car or even a bicycle – where in the last case you could conceivable place it in the rear red light, where modern bikes already has a print-plate inside [Oh, no don’t tell me that this print plate is…………]

    In relation to this case it means that Saad’s car could have got a device on at any time [And even if there were a blackout (again on conventional, commercial networks – but not necessarily on special networks) at certain palces, it would be easy to deduct where people had been, where or was heading to], and in principle so could Mollier’s bike. Mollier would be more ignorant of possible countermeasures than the tech savvy Saad. What are these countermeasures? During the Cold War you used to “sweep” (What was the exact word? I’ve forgot) a room for listening devices, as described in Peter Wrights book Spycatcher

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    It would be interesting to know if the receptionist at the “Europa” (the first campsite Saad stayed on before moving out in a rash after just two days, although he had planned to stay there a week) had seen the Italian man before. Her statement sounds as if he was a kind of regular visitor, but I’m not sure. This could all be cleared up by talking to her, if she is willing to talk. If she has not seen her before it could be Pietro from Elekta, or it could be a Mossad agent, although the fact that he drew all this amount of attention to himself seems to rule this out.

  • Felix

    Now detailed analysis of a mobile phone belonging to Mr Al-Hilli has uncovered the message from a member of staff at the junior school that both girls attended in Claygate, Surrey.

    Utter tosh – “it emerged…”

    Claygate school would have been one of the first places any Police force trying to solve the “crime” would have gone to. And if not, one of the “teachers” would surely have contacted the police with this information on September 6.

    More disinformation, I suspect.
    “a member of staff..” Well, the new class teacher? The Headmaster? The school office??
    The Head teacher, Mr Darryl Taylor, spoke to the press on September 7. He did not allude to the above. It did not “emerge” at that time.

    Fascinating fact – Brian Howells, Al-Hilli’s next door neighbour at 28 Oaken Lane is, and has been for a number of years, a governor at Claygate Primary school.
    http://claygate.surrey.sch.uk/Default.asp?Page=27
    Perhaps the information “emerged” through him???

    Mr George Brian Howells seems to have an interest, through the banking industry, in detecting money laundering and the funding of terrorism using software.
    {http://www.ebcuk.com/downloads/EBC_kdmatch_flyer_V3_E.pdf}

    From the Mail:
    The family’s next-door neighbours of 26 years, George and Doreen Howells, a retired couple, are similarly pessimistic.

    ‘We miss them a lot. Our grand kids played with their daughters [Zainab, seven, and Zeena, four, who miraculously survived] and Saad would do anything for you,’ said Mr Howells, who had arranged to put out Mr al-Hilli’s recycling bins while he was away.

    ‘Things will never be the same. It would be nice to get closure, but I don’t think we ever will.’

    Read more: {http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2217000/Alps-murders-Saad-al-Hilli-family-shot-dead-near-Chevaline-shortage-theories.html}

    No mention that he is a governor of the school there. Why not call him Brian?

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