The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@ Katie 18 Oct, 2012 – 1:28 pm
“Did anyone read this. “”Terrorists having access to nuclear material is a real threat,” he said.
“They have developed a particular container to put enriched uranium in as samples. The groups repeat [deliveries] to defeat the preventive measures. This is a real threat.” Patricia Lewis, the head of the international security at Chatham House, said Mr Amano’s comments appeared to confirm suspicions that groups had got their hands on devices used by scientists to prevent radioactive emissions in transit.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/9616152/Terrorists-acquire-nuclear-container-to-smuggle-uranium.html
In the case of Uranium-235, the supercritical mass is slightly above 115 pounds (52kg) and the diameter is only 17 cm, so it is feasible to move the material in numerous small shipments. Commercial containers to move radioactive materials weight from 5 to 12 metric tonnes, but that’s because of safety. They must withstand mechanical damage, fire, never leak, etc. From what I quickly read all of the following can be used to shield U-235: water, lead, depleted uranium, and our friend zirconium. Don’t know what thickness and weight are needed, but it can’t be too much or there would not be any small suitcase and backpack bombs.
One thing I did not know is that the critical mass for lower-grade uranium depends strongly on the grade: with 20% U-235 it is over 400 kg; with 15% U-235, it is well over 600 kg, so it’s possible to make a dirty bomb with low grade U-235.
@ Kenneth Sorensen
Several pages back you said the whole Iran / enrichment / bomb business was a fake or charade, and I suspect that’s true. Recall reading one or two years ago that some experts in the field suggested Iran already has one or two bombs, though maybe not very good ones – like North Korea.
@ Ferret 19 Oct, 2012 – 10:14 am
“AFAIR it was Ricky that was into the Comet/Meterite thing… where’s he gone, by the way?
And yes, thanks Strawb, an airburst could well account for it. Must’ve been a mighty big meteorite (if so it was) to cause such a bang, wouldn’t it?
That’d make it two very big ones in the space of a couple of weeks… what are the chances of that, statistically speaking?
If we get a third one we’ll *really* have to start wondering…”
There was a third one, a large fireball, somewhere in Northern California, one or two nights ago. Ascribed to a meteorite from the Orion meteor shower. But if you wanted to bring down someone’s satellite, that would be a good time to do it.
@ Kenneth Sorensen
For picture of tracking devices and such just search on spy or surveillance equipment. There are thousands of pages selling the stuff, starting at US $100 for consumer or amateur devices. The pro equipment sells for US $10,000 – $60,000 and some of it is restricted to military or police.
NR.
Yes interesting, I saw that the usual container for transporting is a lead lined container too, do I take it that although 600 kg sounds a huge amount, there is little bulk , the weight is in the density rather than size ?
@ Katie
About you thinking they had different fathers, I actually speculated that they might have different mothers.Similar to your idea but not quite the same and IMO more likely given that polygamy is allowed in Arab cultures. It would also explain why Saad’s mother reportedly wanted to leave her share of the house to him.
Further to my last post, I should also have mentioned divorce being fairly common too and the father customarily takes over the upbringing of the child from the age of 7 I think.
Kathy yes I knew that about divorce , but as I understood it,Mother left the house to Saad, only later did he then pass on half to Zaid.
Either way, there seems to be something odd that Saad can block the rightful half of Zaid. …don’t you think ?
Yes, I agree it is very odd.
Either way, there seems to be something odd that Saad can block the rightful half of Zaid. …don’t you think ?
Katie, can I ask, where do you get the idea from that SAH is/was “blocking” anything to do with the will?
A caveat on a will doesn’t block anything, it just means the person taking out the caveat gets automatically notified if/when probate is granted, so they can then object if they want to before the spoils are divided.
(And before probate is granted all beneficiaries are “blocked” from receiving anything, that’s the law.)
Re the space requirement for 600kg of Uranium, a back-of-the-envelope calculation could start with saying that 600kg of water would take up 600 litres, and uranium being almost 20 times as dense as water would take up roughly one twentieth of this volume, ie about 30 litres. So… about the same volume as a normal family picnic cooler box, and would fit comfortably in the boot of, say, of a BMW estate.
😀
(Uranium is actually 19.1 times as heavy as water, not 20 times, but it doesn’t make any practical difference for this calculation.)
And no, I don’t think SAH had 600kg of enriched uranium in the boot of his car. Reason being, as has been said a million times before on this thread, nuclear smugglers don’t get shot. They get arrested. So it had to be something far more important than that, and probably information-related that required him to be killed to silence him.
Kathy,
I wonder what ‘underhand things’ Zaid could have done, was he who sacked the lawyer, is that what Saad meant, meaning how could he if the lawyer was working for both brothers ?
@ katie
It happens more often than you think however. I personally know someone who managed to grab the whole of his parents’ house when they died, cutting out his two sisters, simply because he was living with his parents.
Oh, and if you’re talking about the Swiss bank acct, the article Dopey quoted yesterday didn’t say that SAH was trying to block Zaid withdrawing money.
What it said was (reporting Maillaud, AFAIR) that SAH was checking that Zaid hadn’t withdrawn anything (which he hadn’t). Naturally, as probate hasn’t been granted, no beneficiaries are allowed to touch anything.
I haven’t seen anything reported which casts SAH as anything other than someone who was concerned that he might get rolled over by someone he considers untrustworthy, if he didn’t take sensible precautions.
Ferret.
I didn’t say or think for a minute that AH was carting uranium about, that was simply in response to the article in the DT saying they’ve found new material/for the purpose.
As for the will, sacking a lawyer would upset proceedings somewhat, how & what could Saad do about a legitimate claim by Zaid ?
A caveat does effectively block Zaid getting anything before being seen by Saad who then can halt proceedings.
Does this photo look more like a brother of Saad?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=120980737964795&set=p.120980737964795&type=1&theater
@NR
Thanks for the info re another celestial event… three big ones in as many weeks is unusual, no?
I was thinking, three big ones over the UK would be really unlikely, but I’m not sure what the chances are worldwide.
Maybe there is a satellite war going on after all… Iran would want to take out the US satellites if it could, to try and prevent invasion… and isn’t China on Iran’s side in all of this? They are reportedly way ahead in laser tech as has been said here, and already “blinded” one US satellite some years back…
Or maybe it goes back to ATK and their satellite that can de-orbit other satellites…
Thanks NR
This report says that it isnt part of the current meteor shower as it didnt come from Orion but a different direction:-
http://fox40.com/2012/10/18/fireball-not-part-of-meteor-shower/
Yes Straw it does, much more than the photo that’s been pumped out in the media. A different guy.
Astium being paid to remove space junk. A 2010 forerunner to the Oct 2012 harpoon plan to do the same.
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19798745]
http://www.astrium.eads.net/en/community-and-links/university-of-surrey-s-cubesail-project.html
NB. Dont miss clicking on the BBC news item from 2010 about this ecpected to be launched from 2011
How can that work legally though Kathy, physically yes they move in & change the locks, but surely deeds could only be changed in that case by a crooked lawyer ?
@Katie
I didn’t say or think for a minute that AH was carting uranium about
No worries, I didn’t think you were. I just wanted to get in before anyone went off down that alley.
A caveat does effectively block Zaid getting anything before being seen by Saad who then can halt proceedings.
Well, yes, in a way, but the caveat itself doesn’t block anything, it just ensures that Zaid can’t get away with skullduggery without SAH having an opportunity to spot it.
So to say, as you did, that there seems to be something odd that Saad can block the rightful half of Zaid simply isn’t true.
SAH could have challenged any unfairness in the probate, if there was any, but he could not have (and wasn’t trying to) block any fair and equitable settlement, if it was in accordance with the will.
Sorry guys, haven’t had time to catch up yet.
As for the Mockford shooting, following on so soon after the Chevaline massacre with an evidently similar MO, maybe it’s the start of a hot shooting war on the streets of Europe. So who are the protagonists?
And why, yet again is the MSM being so coy about it?
@M69
And maybe it’s the start of a hot satellite war, n all…
There are a lot of people talking about the big fireball in the sky Wednesday night … With the Orionid Meteor Shower scheduled to peak from October 20-21 some people are writing off the fireball as part of the shower, but it’s not.
FOX40 meteorologist Darren Peck explained, “They call it the Orionid Meteor Shower because every one of those shooting stars is supposed to look like it’s coming from Orion. This meteor didn’t do that. It came from a different direction.”
Which means the fireball everyone saw was not part of the Orionid Meteor Shower and came from somewhere else.
Actually this meteor is very similar to the meteor that landed in Lotus and Coloma back in April. THAT meteor also happened right before the peak of a meteor shower, was thought to be part of that shower, but it wasn’t. The event brought out hundreds of meteorite hunters who were searching for the valuable rocks.
http://fox40.com/2012/10/18/fireball-not-part-of-meteor-shower/
Add these two to the “comet” over the UK a few weeks back, and today’s “big bang” which could well have been an airburst…
It’s getting close to being too many to be coincidence, IMO…
@Ferret
19 Oct, 2012 – 2:26 pm
‘Maybe there is a satellite war going on after all…’
Me Just now
‘maybe it’s the start of a hot shooting war on the streets of Europe..’
I think we are living in interesting times, dangerous times.
New article says SM was shot first it looks like he was the main target .
http://www.leparisien.fr/actualite/tuerie-de-chevaline-saad-al-hilli-est-sorti-de-sa-voiture-avant-d-etre-abattu-19-10-2012-2247667.php
Sara Gates @sarajgates
Has there been an explosion near newton abbot?
about 22 hours ago
@M69
That’s exactly what I meant… sorry it wasn’t clear.
M69: maybe it’s the start of a hot shooting war on the streets of Europe
Me: And maybe it’s the start of a hot satellite war, n all…
Interesting and dangerous times, indeed…
@ Katie
I am not sure but think it had something to do with it would continue to be a family home but of course his sisters were so disgusted that they didn’t want ever to visit there.
Phew! It’s half past three and I’ve only just caught up with the posts. So much to comment on. I’m sorry if I can’t remember specifically who made what point. I hope you will forgive me.
First the trip to the Swiss Bank. Clearly the Al Hilli’s were not poor. If we add the properties in England, Spain and France that we know of, to the balance in Swtz. we have around 3 – 4 million in assets without including Saad’s and Zaid’s personal money. And of course there could be money squirrelled away elsewhere as well. Whether this money was gained legitimately or not we have no idea. But Swiss a/c are notorious for keeping transactions secret and remember the suggestion has been made that this money was accumulated in the absence of selling their Iraqi land assets apparently, if the neighbour’s report of Saad’s trip back there two years ago is to be believed. Leaving aside how the money was obtained, the fact that SAH visited the bank is not of itself sinister. Wouldn’t you want to do so if it was yours? Also he might have preferred a personal visit to electronic communication so as not to flag it up. We do not know whether his brother was aware of it. They had been very close until the recent bust-up so we can assume he did. However I take the view that it is one thing to fall out with a brother over money and quite another to set up a sophisticated assassination, not even knowing where they would be, and not even sparing “innocent” women, children and un-related passer by. That the French prosecutor ever suggested such a possibility I find highly suggestive of diversionary tactics not to mention the waste of valuable police time on a non-starter of a explanation.
@ strawberry
Amazing how different Zaid looks in that photo and very like Saad as you say.
Here’s the text of Le Parisien’s report:
Selon un scénario encore provisoire, les conclusions balistiques de la gendarmerie surla tuerie de Chevaline (Haute-Savoie) qui a fait quatre morts le 5 septembre, indiquent que le cycliste Sylvain Mollier a visiblement été touché d’emblée par une première salve de tirs.
SUR LE MÊME SUJET
Tuerie de Chevaline : la mystérieuse moto aux grandes sacoches
Le tueur a ensuite surpris Saad Al-Hilli, cet ingénieur britannique venu en touriste à la Combe-d’Ire avec sa famille. Toujours d’après les premiers enseignements des expertises, il se trouvait à l’extérieur de la voiture avec sa fille aînée, Zainab. Le père aurait rejoint ensuite précipitamment son break BMW pour tenter de fuir.
L’examen des semelles des victimes a, en effet, permis de confirmer que Saad se trouvait bien dehors. Sa fille ayant été retrouvée blessée à l’extérieur gisant devant le véhicule. Mais en reculant trop vite, Saad a buté contre un talus et l’essieu arrière du break s’est embourbé. Le tueur a ensuite abattu Saad Al-Hilli, alors qu’il était déjà retourné au volant de son véhicule, avant de viser son épouse Iqbal et sa belle-mère, Suhaila, assises toutes les deux à l’arrière . Les gendarmes ne savent dans quel ordre la famille a été exécutée. L’assassin serait ensuite retourné achever le cycliste en train d’agoniser car les angles de tir sont différents selon les salves.
Une certitude, les gendarmes sont désormais persuadés qu’il n’y avait qu’un seul tireur à Chevaline. Un individu très mobile sur la scène de crime , «au comportement désordonné», selon les enquêteurs, «allant d’une victime à l’autre et revenant sur l’une ou l’autre tour à tour pour les achever». Une attitude «non cohérente avec le profil d’un tueur professionnel», décrypte encore la gendarmerie.
LeParisien.fr
Now if SAH had been shown to withdraw or even deposit a large sum of money that would have been a story for obvious reasons especially if the money could no longer be located. Theft is always a possible motive for violence, even extreme violence but of course robbery was only floated at first (also diversionary?) but never afterwards suggested again. Of course it is possible if SAH had intended a transaction there with Mollier or anyone else he may have needed to ensure he had funds and make arrangements with the bank as to transaction details. This information must be available to French and Swiss police as clearly they had no problem with publishing other confidential bank account details. We do not know but they surely do. That Mollier (who apparently was a member of a fairly radical socialist party) might have been prepared to transfer highly technical zirconium or other information to Al Hilli in return for cash for onward transfer to Iran, is not wholly fanciful. Nor the possibility that third party governments, with or without the tacit or active support of the French, would do whatever necessary to stop it, is both a rational and realistic hypothesis.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/wp/wp-comments-post.php
What the hell is this? That’s what i gotwhen i went to post a translation of the le Parisien report. Maybe just a blip ..