The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Katie one article I read (without checking maybe the DM one) I thought sounded a little weird, but I thought it must be a muslim thing. I took it to mean they’d all been taken out of the coffins and placed in the grave all together.
God knows, but I do find it odd that the MIL was buried with them. Odd as in MILs would normally go in their own family cemetary (family plot if they have one). Then again I suppose since they all died together they may have wanted them all together in death.
Dopey, there’s always the other theory, that they were in fact related not only in law but by blood ?
Remember all the intermarriages which these dynasties have……not sure if this is as prevalent with Iraqis as the Pakistanis & Indians, but I know it happens.
I can see why SAH and SM would be interested in what KESHE had to say I am not sure they would admit to it though ,as a result of this little foray I now know how to make graphene sheets and am wondering if they were all shot with a directed energy weapon I think I had better stick to simpler forms of investigation .
Beam me up Scotty 🙂
@ bluebird 22 Oct, 2012 – 2:10 pm
“You do question what he could have said to them?
The simple setence would be: “You’re going to receive cash. $$$$”.
Or “someone” might have said to the Al Hilli family, perhaps long ago, “We known you are working for A. You keep working for A but from now on you will tell us what happens, or your whole family goes phfft!” Then “someone” or “A” finds out the AH’s have double-crossed them. Like when Smyth refused to narc out Arnon Milchan for a plea deal. Smyth didn’t have any particular loyalty to Israel. You think he knew what would happen to him if he testified against Milchan?
@ Katie 22 Oct, 2012 – 4:08 pm
“It’s true Felix, the BBC are either staying schtum or they are too preoccupied with themselves IE: Saville. I suspect it’s the latter.”
It’s not only the BBC, but the rest of the media must be busy protecting their own, and those in high places who are implicated. The secret numbers for incoming calls at 5 & 6 are overloaded with inquiries from the high and mighty asking for (or demanding) help.
@BB: Lasers. Yes, that’s what I said. I still think the real issue with the lasers is the fireworks that result from aiming one into a terrestrial gamma flash. Antimatter and all that: the ultimate weapon.
Inquests. Why do we not hear about inquests for at least some of those alleged to have died?
A coroner in England and Wales will normally hold an inquest if a person died a violent or unnatural death overseas and the body is returned to the coroner’s district.
I assume the Al-Hillis were UK citizens. I assume the bodies were brought back to the UK. Which Coroner’s district were the bodies brought back to (if indeed they were)? Why is there no mention of inquests??
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/when-things-go-wrong/death-abroad
@Thomas
What is the case for Swedish citizens (Mrs Al-Allaf) returned to another country?
Formal identification.
BBC Sept 6 19.28
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19506853
Formal identification of all the bodies was ongoing.
[despite the fact that the Al-Hilli names had been released]
Guardian Sept 6 22.37 BST
A Scotland Yard spokesman said they could not comment because Hilli had not yet been formally identified
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/06/french-alps-shooting-live
Channel 4 Sept 7
http://www.channel4.com/news/french-alps-shooting-4×4-driver-sought
Police in Surrey, where the family lived, are now liasing with officers in France and are preparing to share forensic DNA evidence and fingerprints from the family home with their counterparts across the Channel with a view to establishing formal identification.
Independent Sept 7
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-horror-and-mystery-of-the-annecy-killings-8114016.html
French officials insist that her [Mrs Al-Allaf’s] face and that of the male victim were too badly damaged to allow formal identification until DNA tests are performed on samples flown from Britain today.
Times of News Sept 7 17.12 BST
http://timesofnews.co/2012/09/07/france-shootings-saad-al-hilli-brother-denies-family-row-2/
Matt Perkins of SSTL quoted: “I am deeply shocked and saddened to confirm that one of SSTL’s long-term contractors, Saad Al-Hilli, has been formally identified as one of the victims of the shootings which occurred in the French Alps,”
[ergo Ikbal Al-Hilli could have been formally identified]
This does not satisfy me, nor would it satisfy a coroner.
So, Saad Al-Hilli’s identificaiton was confirmed by SSTL (!) not quoting DNA samples.
Mrs Ikbal Al-Hilli could have been formally identified but wasn’t.
Suhaila Al-Allaf could not allegedly have been identified formally and there is no further trace about her formal identification by DNA or otherwise.
This is highly unsatisfactory and disturbing.
@Katie
if Mrs Al-Allaf had died in her apartment in Tumba,or a car crash in Stockholm, I doubt if she would have been flown to the UK to be buried. because her grand-daughters were here.
Out of interest, when did Mrs Fahisa Al-Hilli die? (it’s actually listed at 192.com as FASIHA – which is correct??)
Did anybody lse think it strange that the Iraqi embassy organised the funeral as reported in the DM?
Why were diplomats involved in that? Im sure the British embassy wouldn’t bury me if it came to it; plenty of relatives that would normally get involved. Maybe it was the diplomats idea to have a joint funeral internment?
intp1
I thought it was strange, the Iraqi embassy being involved too. I can’t think of any “normal” reason why this should be.
Thanks, Felix, for your continuing sensible comments about the conspiracy massacre.
Have no fear about my settling for any kind of coverup in the case, though my complaints about the assassinations and coverups of all kinds of people don’t seem to get very far, even when the case has no solution, like in the murders of Royal Cadet Stephen Hilder, and all those securocrats on that Chinook helicopter which crashed at the Mull of Kintyre back in June 1994.
Sweden has just forgotten about this case.
Säpo is now engaged in getting to the bottom of a suspicious package, containing some corrosive, poisonous powder,being sent to the American Embassy in Stockholm last Wednesday, reminiscent of the anthrax attacks in the States which occurred right after the 9/11 bombings, so don’t expect to hear anything more about what happened to Suhaila al-Allaf from it.
Of course, the failure of anyone apparently to hold autopsies and inquests about the murders just adds more confusion which will make any kind of solution of the conspiracy nearly impossible. Passing the bodies to Britain – where the murders did not take place – seems like an excellent way of helping cover up if they died, how,why,and who might have done it.
@Intp1
Yes, good point. It had worried me too. Mrs Al-Allaf was allegedly joint Iraqi – Swedish nationality and , pace Katie, I was astonished that she was buried in the UK.
A very very strange funeral.
Morning early birds.
Yes I was also surprised to read that the Iraqi Embassy had arranged the funeral, that was way beyond the Embassorial duties to my mind.
Could it be for ‘protection’ , could it be because they thought foul play may be used by someone if it were not strictly controlled ? It does make it look as though government [s ] are involved too,don’t you think ?
Burying the mother in the UK would certainly be easier for repatriation , meaning just the one flight…..
I wonder what’s written on the death certificate ?
Felix, do you remember the mother saying that since she had lost her husband she now wanted to spend more time with her daughter & grandchildren ?
Maybe she had written in her will a wish to be buried in the UK or near them.
Bluebird, do we know her maiden name name ?
@Felix
23 Oct, 2012 – 6:56 am
I don´t think it´s anything in the Swedish law that prevent that Suhaila is buried in UK without any examination of Swedish coroners. Where to bury her is to be decided by the relatives.
If a person don´t have insurance, the costly transport to Sweden is to be paid by the relatives, the Swedish authorities don´t pay for the transport. This could add to the reason she was buried in UK, but probably of little importance.
Would also consider the possibility that Suhaila could have been registered in UK as residence, with social benefits for her ( and the disabled son ) with the passport where she is 77. It´s not a rarity with immigrants that register in both UK and Sweden to double the benefits from the welfare systems. This might as well be a less thrilling reason to explain why we don´t see any pics of Suhaila.
It´s probably been checked, but was there any 77-year old registered at the adresses in Reading or elsewhere of the relatives? Or with an age corresponding to the disabled son?
What makes this theory less likely, is that the 4-year old hardly know Suhaila, which would have been the case if Suhaila was frequently travelling from UK and Sweden.
A small and maybe insignificant point about that funeral photo, did anyone notice there is only one conformist to British ways…. that conformist was Zaid,does anyone know what I mean ?
Katie
Yes. Her maiden name is al Allaf. SUHAILA M AL ALLAF to be exactly. In ancestry.com there is a phonebook entry between 1978 and 1981 for her. She definitely lived in the UK some time. The address is of a wealthy and rich neighbourhood in london.
Thomas
I would not pay too much attention about the 4 year old saying she does not know the woman on the picture. We dont know what picture the french did show her perhaps a picture from a passport when suhaila was 60. The kid did not know her at that time. Certainly she was not a frequent visitor since she lived in sweden. However if somebody showed me a photo of my grandma when i was 4 years old and that photo showed her as a younger woman then i would not have known her either.
Thanks BB, I must congratulate you on the way you have got to grips with these names !
I am not surprised that Iraq was honouring them by organising the funeral via embassy. The families have links to the highest ranked DAWA party parliament members, to the UNO and of course to Iraqi science and universities. Simply imagine Earl Spencer would die in Ausrralia and requested ti be buried there. Would not the British Embassy co-organise the funeral? I bet they would.
That was not unusal for the iraqi embassy because those families are some of the most important in iraq and other arab countries.
Katie
Arab women never change their names. They keep their maiden names all tgeir life whetheror not they are married. Therefore her arab (iraqi) passport was still al allaf. Since she married al saffar in europe she had to change her name in her european passport at that time. Therefore the two names for her. Today she could keep her maiden name in europe, too. However, in the 1970tees and 1980tees that was not possuble. Therefore her swedish or uk passport is al saffar ( name of her husband abd el amir al saffar) . Officially in arab culture she was still al allaf.
Increasingly think that William Hershkovitz was one, if not the only one, of the killers.
Interesting to see that the French apparently didn’t perform real autopsies on the victims – just stating after about 48 hours that they all died of multiple gun-shot wounds, at least one shot in the head.
Only later did they say that they all had at least two gun-shot wounds to the head – what generally indicates a ceremonial killing of the hated dead, and what all concerned would be most reluctant to disclose as it indicates that the shooter was taking vengeance on those already killed.
It becomes even more disturbing when we learn that Hershkovitz had nightmares about killing people, and mutilating their bodies.
Little wonder that Israeli authorities are now investigating if Hershkovitz committed suicide when he was holed up in that kitchen.
Would make him look like a crazy lunatic rather than a eager-beaver hitman recruit for the Mossad.
Would help explain all the confusion about what occurred when because the killer or killers would need more time than claimed.
Case closed as far as I am concerned.
Oh, yes, did the Iraqi Embassy get involved in the burials for fear that some Iranians would beat it to them?
@Bluebird
23 Oct, 2012 – 8:58 am
Agree, if the pics they show was the old one.
Suhaila was living in Tumba, it´s not so far away from where the cheap Ryan-air are flying to London. It´s not complicated or heavy financally to fly back and forward frequently between her place and UK.
Phew, you lot are still going; great 😀
I’ve installed today a new anti-spam plugin, which should mean that more genuine comments get through immediately. Let me know if there are any problems with it, and I’ll try to keep an eye also. I’ve permitted two links at the same time too.
Carry on!
Hello Jon. 🙂 Thank-you !
Trowbridge, please help to solve my riddle.
Why should – as you called him – “a lunatic clerk” who had wrestled with the cook somewhere in a kitchen of a hotel in Eilat – be the Annecy murder?
I simply cannot find any link to France nor to Al Hilli nor to Mollier. He had worked as a hotel clerk in Eilat. Why and how should that clerk have been in France only a few days earlier?
I mean, only yesterday I saw two drunk guys wrestle in front of the pub opposite of my house. One of them was so drunk that he jumped onto the street and was hit by a truck. His name is Arwaander Pospisil. I strongly guess that he was the killer in Annecy ….
from yesterdays Spiegel online:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/mord-in-den-alpen-staatsanwalt-dementiert-radfahrer-these-a-862728.html
Thomas,
I don’t think that the al Allafs and the al Saffars had any kind of money problems. Money is and was most likely the least problem of those families. However, usually 77 years old women don’t feel convenient with travelling by plane back and forth. I think that she had visited the family not more often than 2 or 3 times a year. Perhaps the kid had last time seen her at Christmas 2011. Then add up that an older passport photo was presented when Suhaila was younger and I guess that you would not have known your grandma either when you were just four. On the other hand, she did not have another grandma, since Suhaila was the only one alive. We have to ask Arabs if whether they are calling their grandmas “grandma” or by names “Mrs. Suhaila” etc. Usually women are treated different than men in their family relations. I don’t know if “grandma” is a usual word in Arab. Does anybody know?
Shelock, thanks for the Spiegel.
So what do we know what we didn’t know so far:
1) French journalist Jean Marc Ducos has good friends in the French national security and French police who obviously know much more than Eric Maillaud does know.
(That isn’t really surprising since some journalists have good contacts).
2) Jean Marc Ducos says that the investigation was a FARCE from the very first minute. (OK, we knew that already because we aren’t stupid).
3) Eric Maillaud said that it was difficult to interview 4 years old Zeena because his English is very bad and she couldn’t understand him while he couldn’t understand what Zeena had said.
(Well, this is new, because we did imagine that they had a translator who was capable of English and it certainly adds up to that whole farce some kind of French humour).
Now let me guess what kind of photo he showed to Zeena representing her grandma. Daisy Duck or Minni Mouse?
I remember funny filmes with Louis des Funes as a Gendarm. What we have learnt now is the matter of that Eric Maillaud is trying to top him.