The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Translation of Shelocks German link: [ by Bing ]
Hamburg – already the beginning of the investigation into the quadruple murder in the French Alps was a fiasco: only eight hours after the discovery of four bodies in a car the investigators noticed a four-year survivor. Since then police and the investigating prosecutors are under even closer scrutiny by the press, as it is already customary in such cases.
Last Friday, alleged results of the investigation were published in the newspaper “Le Parisien”. The journalist Jean-Marc Ducos wrote Ballistikern according to the killer shot first on the French cyclist Sylvain M.. The British holidaymakers family was not his goal, but have to die because the father of Saad H. had observed the action.
Saad H. and his older daughter held up according to “Le Parisien” outside the car, as M. was shot. Citing investigators circles, the author reported there had been perhaps a majority and amateur – investigators from the haphazardly published proceedings would conclude this. After the killing of the family was the offender returned once again to Sylvain M. and shot more times on him.
“This is a brazen lie”
The public prosecutor of Annecy, Eric Maillaud, has criticised the article: “This is a hypothesis – but a brazen lie not simply”, he said mirror ONLINE. He had never experienced something so the lawyer next. “The Ballistician can not detect at all, in what order the shots were fired.” You must bear in mind, that was the fact in a few expired seconds and is very difficult to reconstruct.
“To conclude that the offender is returned to his crime scene to miss a coup de Grâce to the cyclists, by the different Schussrichtungen it is pure speculation”, so Maillaud. For him it is clear: “The cyclist was not the target.” “He was simply at the wrong time in the wrong place.” The misleading allegations caused because there is to report otherwise too little about the case. He and his team of investigators would pursue continue every possible track.
That Saad H. is stuck attempting to flee with his red BMW into the soft surface of a slope, clear from a look at aerial photographs of the crime scene. The fact of the escape was also part of the reconstruction by the “Le Parisien”-journalists.
Prosecutor Maillaud confirmed that Saad H. and his daughter left the car the investigations according to. It not was in this fact but new results of ballistic tests.
Journalist defends his thesis
Since the disclaimer the telephone ceases when the journalists Jean-Marc Ducos no longer ringing. He invented the information? He laughs. “If the Lord can not correctly read Public Prosecutor, then that is his problem,” said Ducos mirror ONLINE. He explicitly wrote that it was a preliminary, potential scenario.
The journalist refers in his article “experts of the Gendarmerie nationale”, the French national police, who is directly subordinate to the Ministry of the Interior. Its exact source not call Ducos for reasons of informant protection. “Eric Maillaud can deny as much he wants”, as Jean-Marc Ducos. “Is much more interesting that he has confirmed that his father and his elder daughter have actually left the car.” His appearance could not be so so far from the truth.
Like so many of his colleagues, the journalist criticized that the investigation had been a farce from the outset. “It started with this giant error, that one has found the small Zeena so late”, so Ducos. And it go further with a series of inconsistencies.
The track followed to England
Prosecutor Eric Maillaud had to repeatedly make accusations of sloppiness and unprofessionalism. So he reported in a press conference on the first examination of the four-year Zeena. “It was very difficult to understand them,” he told the journalists. “I speak very little English.”
He also focused in for weeks on the trail, which led in the British family’s residence. A member of the family of H. said the radio station BBC Radio 4 that his family will constantly harassed by the police, although there are still no concrete indications on Monday. “I think the Attorney General should lead his investigation professionally and exclude no trace”, so the relatives. “To focus just on the family is not the right way.” So far only one thing is clear in this case: six weeks after the fact public prosecutor’s Office and police are still at a loss.
Bluebired, in a way I feel sorry for Maillaud, he has always been relying on the gendarmes for information & clearly there’s little rapport & they are all under more pressure than ever now.
Their pride is taking a bashing too as the world looks on seeing nothing but incompetence.
katie,
My main problem with Maillaud certainly is that he is still insisting that Mollier was an accident victim, being there at the wrong time at the wrong place. Of course, the al Hilli family had also been at the wrong place at the wrong time. If they would have been in London, they would not have been killd in France. That is Maillaud’s logic and therefore he is nothing but a clown.
Everybody who had one eye only could see from the very first second that Mollier wasn’t an acciednt victim. No killer (except for a mad man) would begin with an assassination at the time when an accident bypasser is standing exactly in front of his victims. No accident bypasswer would cycle or run directly into the direction of an assassination while an assassination is going on until he is eaxactly a few centimeters in front of the killer. In contrary, he would stop and run or hide as soon as possible. Therefore, if he were an accident bypasser, his body must have been at least 25-50 meters off that scene but not exactly in front of the victims. Maillaud should know that. Either he is a complete fool or else he was already instructed in advance about the requested result of the investigation.
Hardly surprising Bluebird that you adopt the name of creatures not noted for their brains. Bluebirds are the dumbest of the bunch.
If you cannot process who William Hershkovitz was, why he went to Israel, the relation between the JAFI’s Iranim program and the Mossad, what his role at Eilat’s Leonardo Club was, how he spent his six weeks alllegedly there, why he had nightmares about killing people and mutilating their bodies after the Annecy massacre occurred, how this impacted his chef boss, Armando a-Abed, why Hershkovitz would not accept alternative employment, his planning to chop up al-Abed with two axes, but settling for killing him with a security guard’s pistol, holing himself up in the kitchen in the expectation that he would be captured, only to discover that he was most unnecessarily killed, the head of the program resigning over the fiasco, the Israeli authorities trying to explain it all away as a simple suicide, etc., ad nauseam, I just cannot help you.
Trow.
But no one is saying your guy is not Mossad, what we are having trouble with is the connection to Annecy I find it a giant leap from one case to the other with nothing in between.
Trowbridge. I still can’t follow your logic. Is there any link or confirmation that he was in France? If he worked in the Eilat hotel for 6 weeks, how could he had been in France then?
Aarwander Pospisil started drinking right after the Annecy murder, too.
If that wis the only link we have, then we would have 150.000 suspects worldwide whose behaviour accidentally changed in early september 2012 and who are Jewish or Arabs.
If you could present us some kind of proof that he was in France at that time, then your story would sound a little bit more logic to me. At this time, however, it sounds to me like the usual phrase: “The killer is always the gardener”.
katie:
Trow.
But no one is saying your guy is not Mossad, what we are having trouble with is the connection to Annecy I find it a giant leap from one case to the other with nothing in between.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And so do I, katie. Thumbs up.
question to English natives.
Do schools and colleges in England have ” student yearbooks” on the internet or somewhere else to find out the names of the students of certain years?
I would be interested for the names of the students in 1975-1982 in St. Mary’s College, London. Could somebody provide a link whether or not such names or yearbooks are available online in the UK?
Sorry, correctioon of my above post:
I meant “QUEEN MARY COLLEGE” yearbooks 1975-1982
… what a messy stroy!!
Looks like Maillaud is some kind of a “scapegoat”
Can’t help thinking more than once at Lady Diana’s “accident”
Some people just want to make us believe “their truth” … estimating we are just too stupid and eat that weird stuff…..
That’s not nice at all!
The two of you admitting that Hershkovitz was a Mossad recruit is a giant admission that he was involved in the Annecy massacre since he volunteered back in Israel that he was having nightmares about killing people, and mutilating their bodies – just what happened at the Annecy crime scene.
It is a most surprising connection which just cannot be explained away as mere coincidence.
Just when did you have nightmares similar to coincidental massacres?
French police should show his photograph to any persons who processed passengers on flights to and from France to Israel, especially El Al ones, and renting and returning cars, especially Pajeros, when he could have done so.
Then, of course, the girls should be shown photographs of him and many others as the possible “badman”.
@ all
I’ve questioned few days ago about the cap laying on the BMW-dashboard- but didn’t get an answer so far:
Looks like the one SM is wearing.
Did you discuss that already? Can sb magnify the pics for a closer look?
That wd indicate, that SM was sitting on the passenger seat – talking to AH before/when the terror started, or had already been sitting there during the drive up the mountain. If so, i’d think, they knew each other…..
@Bluebird
Re QM College, have you tried “Friends Reunited”?
@Felix
Thanks – will check in at Icke when I can.
@Trow
Where did you read that Hershkovitz had nightmares about massacres and mutilating bodies? I can’t find that anywhere on the internet. Link?
@Everyone
Strange the MI5 link didn’t work for some, I’ve just tried it again and it works for me from a different location.
And a strange thought… remember other killings after Annecy involving two shots to the head, supposedly serial killer, unrelated? Well… what if there were no bodies at Annecy but the secret services needed to provide some in a hurry?
If you think that they wouldn’t do this to innocent citizens you should look into the murder of Officer J. D. Tippit, who was often teased by his colleagues for his resemblance to JFK.
Shelock, yes the cap was discussed. As we don’t know if we have the right Mollier & there were obviously more than one cap made , how could we know it was his ?
I do think it’s possible for him to have been in the car which is why his blood would be on AH’s trouser leg, but does not explain why his blood would be on the shoes of Zainab & AH.
OK John, I now know what held up my comments without links, both contained the word B.L.O.O.D…..does your filter have the swear word Bl***y in it ?
Trow , now you sound confused.
I did not admit anything about Mossad I simply said I had not dismissed the possibility , they do have more than one member you know.
As for what happened: “mutilating their bodies – just what happened at the Annecy crime scene.”
This simply is not true, who was mutilated ?
Correction: Jon.
Delete all the unneccessary please.
Here is a link, Ferret:
http://www.omaha.com/article/20121005/AP15/310059977
@ bluebird
I am not surprised that Iraq was honouring them by organising the funeral via embassy. The families have links to the highest ranked DAWA party parliament members, to the UNO and of course to Iraqi science and universities. Simply imagine Earl Spencer would die in Ausrralia and requested ti be buried there. Would not the British Embassy co-organise the funeral? I bet they would.
That was not unusal for the iraqi embassy because those families are some of the most important in iraq and other arab countries.
———————————————————
Therefore I assume the British embassy arranged Nicholas Mockford’s funeral?
Thanks Trow.
To me, he sounds a bit unhinged rather than Mossad material…
Oranim program participant Stas Abramovich, 27, said a number of people had complained about Hershkovitz to the program coordinator.
“There was something strange in his smile, but I never saw him as aggressive,” Abramovich said.
Another participant, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was afraid of repercussions from the program, said Hershkovitz had issued death threats to other members, but program coordinators ignored repeated complaints.
“He would talk to himself, share dreams that he’d had about random killings and mutilations that he did, he would have statements against Arabs or Nazis or terrorist type movements,” the participant added.
http://www.omaha.com/article/20121005/AP15/310059977
Note it says “dreams” not “nightmares” – which is why I say a bit unhinged, doesn’t sound like the dreams bothered him… And issuing death threats to other participants in the program? Now that really doesn’t sound like a Mossad way of doing things, IMO – surely he would have been told to keep a low profile?
@Katie
Re: “who was mutilated?”
Independent Sept 7
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-horror-and-mystery-of-the-annecy-killings-8114016.html
French officials insist that her [Mrs Al-Allaf’s] face and that of the male victim were too badly damaged to allow formal identification until DNA tests are performed on samples flown from Britain today
(Posted by Felix this morning at 7.16am)
Thanks for comments, especailly Thomas re funerals, Swedish practice. I see nobody has taken up the subject of inquests. As I see it, there must be inquests for at least Saad and his wife if they indeed did die.
I have no idea whether the funeral was normal. It certainly wasn’t advertised in advance.
Does anyone know about death certificates? A funeral director would need to see some paperwork before burial. For an unnatural death in the UK at least,the coroner must open the inquest and when satisfied issue a cremation or burial certificate. I cannot see a way around this point. The bodies were brought back to the UK, allegedly. They were unnatural deaths, allegedly.
In normal circumstances, like when a British soldier killed in Iraq/Afghanstan and the body repatriated to Wiltshire (hence Royal Wootton Bassett processions) the coroner in that county would open and adjourn an inquest.
So, were inquests opened in the UK and by whom???
http://www.bereavementadvice.org/medical-certificates-the-coroner-and-post-mortem-examinations/the-coroner-and-inquests/inquests.php
Katie, I blame you for my following mad thoughts-
You said @ 12,48pm again about the possibility of SMs cap on the dash now with the added blood on SAH’s trousers and Zainab’s soles.
I tried to go to Icke and find the zoomed in photos of the possible match for Hunter Sylvain Mollier’s cap on the dash, but no joy.
Keeping an open mind if the latest SM blood info is correct.
With shots to the front passenger window – Why?
Was SM shot initially whilst sitting in the front passenger seat?
If BM was the Al-Hilli’s security and he got out of the car whilst SAH and SM discussed whatever they were smuggling info/methods/samples/thumb file ??? take your pick ???
Discussion goes bad, who pulls the gun first? SAH who has a taser at home maybe or SM the hunter. SAH floors the BMW instinctively or as a dying man after being shot. SM goes from a friend they were meeting to the ‘bad man’ After the car comes to rest in the final position with SM dead or dying [does the front passenger window hole look more like an exit hole than entrance?, I think it does. BM drags him from the car and shoots him several more times, now BM has to hurry and create a believable scene not knowing how long he has.
If Philippe D is real then he freezes what BM has done to the scene on his arrival.
Whether the Al-Hilli adults are alive or dead I dont know, but I cant get my head around the ladies not opening doors to escape before being shot when they dont know SM.
I know this story has so many holes with the facts that we have been given, but so do other suggestions.
I am now as confused as the initial reports.
Ferret, the program iranim is run by the Jewish Agency for Israel – which is the Mossad’s legal front – and has been recruiting agents for it since before the country’s inception.
Why was Hershkovitz entered into it, and kept on despite the recent complaints, obviously after the massacre, if he was simply a nut case?
Anyone who has dreams about killing and mutilating indiscriminately is also known to be having nightmares – you are just quibbling over words.
Thanks, though, for confirming much greater mutilation of SM and Suhaila than I realized.
@Felix
Inquests: absolutely, well said. Totally barmy. Still if there were no bodies, or the bodies were not really the Al-Hilli’s then there’d be a problem with having an inquest: the pathologists report would be mighty strange!
@Thomas
I think you mentioned benefits earlier? The situation is that if a Swedish national moved to the UK their benefits would continue to be paid by Sweden, but they would be paid to the recipient via the UK system, so they wouldn’t get both UK and Swedish benefits. At least, I know it worked this way for a Danish friend of mine some years back. Not really relevant but thought I’d correct what I think is an inaccuracy.
thanks Katie for your reply! Meanwhile I’ve found great pics on the D.Icke forum. But I don’t see why SM been in SAH’s car for some while would not fit to blood on father/daughters soles? There could be more than 100 possibilities, I guess.
I’d also like to bring into mind again, that it was said 10 more shells had been found under the Beeper after beeing moved ….
And what about that “spot” (bullet hole) in the car roof.
Any new suggestions?
May be there had been indeed more than 1 shooter?
Re an inquest
There wasn’t any inquest for Joanna Yeates either.
They ARE having one for Tia Sharp however.
Since they didnt hold an inquest for Jo Yeates I’m not overly suspicious about any lack of inquest for the Al Hillis. Or rather I wouldn’t be overly suspicious about a lack of inquest for any OTHER person/persons…where the Al Hillis are concerned, well God knows.
I’m vague about the rules re inquests. I know they’re normally held if the cause of death is undetermined and/or in suspicious circumstances but, again using Joanna Yeates as an example, it doesn;t seem to be a case that every suspicious death warrants an inquest.
Straw.
What if the path of a bullet came in from the side window, hitting Mollier.
I don’t think BM was there until he said he was,he arrived too late, SM was not the shooter a hit squad was, the women didn’t get out of the car because it was being sprayed with bullets.
Was Mollier then slumped over AH when the door was opened,more shots in his back… AH & the women then shot in the head having already been hit through the windows ?
This scenario would mean when BM arrived,it was he who dragged Mollier out of the car & closed the door…..however here I cannot explain Zainab being hit,the bullet yes,but not her other injuries.
BTW, I have that photo & yes it could be the same cap, but it must be supposition .
Ferret, where was Mollier ‘mutilated’ ,I thought he was shot in the back five times ?
Katie,
If BM is unrelated/unconnected to the Al-Hillis why would he drag SM alone out of the BMW?
SM could have been shot thru the drivers window and bullet continues thru passenger window but if SAH was shot first SM is hardly going to be sitting like they are going for a drive.
I dont suddenly find SAH being involved as a gunman an easy leap to make but the 2 holes in front passenger window are of very different sizes – maybe implying one a miss and the other after passing thru SMs head.