The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Shelock, why not two shooters,I don’t think one man would be sent to do such a big hit.
One sprayed the car as they arrived & kept watch, lashed out at the child , then the other did the precise gun work ?
Onto the Motorbike & away off via the rough track……….or……… in the Pajero……..or both.
That cap isnt a common colour for baseball caps and the fact we have a Sylvain Mollier wearing one and no other photos of SM to confirm they are 2 different people.
Perhaps that ‘SM the Hunter’ is the photo I would most like to show Zainab.
No Straw, BM was supposed to be there to oversee the meeting in his capacity as agent/protection.
The bullets weren’t fired from the drivers side, it was a righthand drive car.
SM would have been where the cap is in the passenger seat on the exposed side of the car. Bullet holes in windows are random from when the the car was sprayed.
The reason BM wanted SM out of the car was to make it look just as the French wanted it to look like, that he was a passerby so no connection with smuggling/agents/Cezus.
BMs protection duty on a mountain bike, I think, is one of the least likely scenarios.
@Katie
“…..however here I cannot explain Zainab being hit,the bullet yes,but not her other injuries.”
———
There seems to be an assumption that she was “pistol-whipped”. Was this ever in any official statement? or was in just am assumption from WBMs interview? Might it not be equally possible that she was shot (perhaps not deliberately) and fell hitting her head on a rock?
Would state-sponsored murderers be instructed to kill the children? I suspect not, what would be the point? Which to my mind makes it quite possible that the killer(s) knew the 4 year old was in the car but had no instructions to ensure her death or that of her sister. Obviously they did not care if the children were hit or not, as long as the “targets” were murdered.
Bleb.
Yes I have said something similar on previous pages, I do think the bullet she received was a ricochet.
There are still those strange marks on the bonnet of the car & I had submitted the thought that had Zainab been on the bonnet when a bullet hit her she fell crashing her head on the ground.
Straw.
BM was not expecting anything of this nature,he was to be just a watchful eye over the meeting which was ‘delicate’ ?
Nationalities
according to Duedil,
Saad and Zaid Al-Hilli have British nationality.
Ikbal Al-Hilli has unknown nationality.
I wonder why.
https://www.duedil.com/company/04140024/shtech-limited/people
@Dopey
Thanks very much for the Joanna Yeates inquest (or lack of) information. You are right. I never knew that! I searched high and low for evidence in the media of an inquest being “opened”, the normal course in the case of a suspicious death when a coroner is informed [see below]. That sets alarm bells ringing with me. Her Wikipedia page has some false information:
Investigators announced on 28 December 2010 that the case had become a murder inquiry as the coroner determined that Yeates had died as a result of strangulation.
This is impossible. Pathologists determine cause of death. A coroner needs to hold an inquest. She went missing on 17 December, found a week later. The link [46] does not mention inquests or coroners. Very very fishy.
{http://www.cliftonpeople.co.uk/groups/generaldiscussion/Joanna-Yeates-strangled-say-police-launch-murder/story-10445217-detail/story.html}
From the National archives:
In most cases, in England and Wales Crown Prosecutors will decide whether to charge a person with a criminal offence. If they decide to prosecute, this will usually result in a trial at court. If a trial takes place, the coroner’s inquest may be delayed quite considerably.
@Dopey – what brought this omission to your attention? So the question I have is – why wasn’t an inquest opened and adjourned with Yeates, and also the Al-Hillis???
{http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/press_statements/cps_statement_on_vincent_tabak/}
Registrars of Births and Deaths, doctors or the police report deaths to a coroner in certain circumstances….[including]
the death was sudden or unexpected;
the death was unnatural;
the death was due to violence or neglect;
the death was in other suspicious circumstances;
All these circumstances relate to Joanne Yeates and the Al-Hillis [bodies brought back to the UK]
http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/burials-and-coroners/guide-charter-coroner.pdf
K,
You probably are more aware of than me -Do you think SMs (being French) punctuality is likely to be better than BMs? Or was BM hiding (at the car park) waiting for SM or just before it waiting for SM to pass?
We are only speculating here, but maybe 1 of these conversations will actually help some pieces fit together.
The Princess Bride
So… who *is* Brett Martin, really?
Felix has very kindly posted the five signatures of “Brett Martin” from the five available annual accounts of Silver Fern, and they make very interesting viewing indeed.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1061094192&postcount=1625
Felix reckons there are two different hands in there, which is a fair punt. I’d go further and stick my neck out and say that after very close examination I believe they are in fact ALL by different hands, meaning that there is no *real* Brett Martin *at all*, IMO.
(Imagine my jaw-dropping surprise when I realised that little beauty!)
He appears to be, how shall we say, like the Dread Pirate Roberts in “The Princess Bride”, handing the role on from person to person, all the while knowing that there is no real Dread Pirate Roberts any more.
Only they weren’t too bothered about making the signatures look identical: close enough was close enough, which was sloppy work.
(In before anyone says “oh, the accountants must have signed them”, if they had that would have been an act of gross malfeasance and no accountant would dream of doing such a thing. They would risk going to jail and being barred for life. And, the accountants would have nothing to gain by signing clients’ accounts as the responsibility for submitting them rests solely with the directors, not with the accountants.)
I will post a higher res copy of the five signatures in due course but I think it’s clear as day that at very least, the “WB Martin” signature is entirely different from any of the “WBrett” ones.
Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. Nuclear.
I found some very interesting applications for depleted uranium, aside from its use as a weapon in the Iraq war (http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-far-worse-than-9-11/2374):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium
Shielding in industrial radiography cameras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_radiography), a coloring for dental porcelain, and trim weights in the Boeing 747-100 are mentioned.
Nondestructive testing: isn’t that done at Rutherford Appleton?
Another Scenario they don’t seem very popular I dont think I will get the Miss Marple award .
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/20/french-alps-murder-mystery-s-forensic-breakthrough.html
The first shots at Mollier didn’t kill him, based on his autopsy report and his trail of blood on the ground. Instead, investigators theorize that the assassin disabled the cyclist—perhaps intentionally keeping him alive—and then turned fire to the al-Hillis. According to the report, Saad al-Hilli then scrambled back into the family car, locked the doors and frantically threw the vehicle into reverse, backing into a muddy bank where the rear axel got stuck. Little Zainab never made it back into the car. The assassin then pistol-whipped and shot her before turning to al-Hilli, his wife, and mother-in-law, shooting them while they were in the car, and finishing each off with two shots to the forehead. Then, according to the investigators’ theory, the assassin went back to Mollier and fired the final two fatal shots into the cyclist’s cranium. They believe the assassin then searched the body and moved it closer to the car before escaping.
………………
In this account SM shot but not killed ,gunman fires towards the car ,SAH gets back in car and reverses but the gunman decides to assault Zainab and shoot her in the shoulder before killing the people in the car a finally SM .
It does not make sense to me he has 4 alive adults and a getaway vehicle to deal with and yet he stops to deal with Zainab.
I think it is more likely in this scenario that the gunman is allready holding Zainab and hit her to deal with the advancing SM or the escaping Saad.
If the car was on the same side of the CP it was found then reversing to get around SM and Zainab and drive at the gunman would make sense then
In this link [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NACCbG7PEOc&feature=related]
EM said when he was describing what BM had seen
“he saw a little girl advancing towards the car about to faint”
I have puzzled over that for ages what direction was she coming from and now I wonder if she was being held in front of the car at gunpoint perhaps SM was a have a go hero and the gunman shot at him whilst holding the gun at Zainab and she got wounded like that,SAH gets chance to regain car but gunman runs forward and shoots him.
I wonder where the two phones were in the car and if the two women tried to call for help.
In this video EM also seems to say about BM “He see’s the cyclist(SM) whom he overtook a short while ago ,I wonder if that what he said in French or if its just translated wrong.
@Ferret –
keep checking in at Mays web design/elixir interiors etc So bizarre
{http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mays-Web-Design/216510985097758}
{https://twitter.com/ElixirInteriors}
The “design weekly” is like some automatically generated page.
@Katie/Straw
we can specuate until eternity about what BM was doing. His TV appearance was a charade. We can only be certain he wasn’t some innocent passer-by. We can be certain too that he won’t
tell the whole story.
@Katie
BM was not expecting anything of this nature,he was to be just a watchful eye over the meeting which was ‘delicate’ ?
Possibly. But whatever it was, it went very very wrong. Hence the mop-up requiring the assistance of the UK ambassadors to France and “special investigators”.
@Ferret: He’s William Martin of course. Back to you, Ian Fleming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat
@Pink
From that BBC Sept 6 video of Maillaud, “apparently” BM has given a full statement to the police and this statement has been communicated to Maillaud for immediate release to the world within 24 hours. How strange. And the family was named later in the day before formal identification.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19506853
Notice BBC interview with George Aicolina who was immediately catapulted to world attention as an “Al-Hilli expert”:
“…and Saad was getting established in his work….” never looks at camera when speaking, but, check eye movement at 0.53 – says to me “was that OK??” bizarre.
Was Sm shot it the back for sure ?
Was the closure of the scene for 8 hours for “scene setters”??
@Ferret
I initially thought the hand of Alan Little was similar to the William Brett hand. I have no real idea except there are at least two WBMs.
@ felix
“@Dopey – what brought this omission to your attention? So the question I have is – why wasn’t an inquest opened and adjourned with Yeates, and also the Al-Hillis???”
I followed the Jo Yeates case closely Felix, and was on the websleuths forums discussing it ack then. That’s why she in particular sprang to mind- I knew there was no inquest.
Actually I can think of another one – a UK gangster called Viv Graham who was murdered in the early 90’s. I don’t think there was an inquest for him either.
Yes re;timings.
The French are notoriously bad time keepers, which could explain AH waiting for so long, BM could have been on UK time, it’s easily done, if you do not set your watch on French time when your plane takes off believe me you can spend days living out of sync if you have no appointments.
I know I’ve done it when I had a holiday home here. I even missed a return ferry on two occasions, when on holiday the only thing, if you are out, which tells you the time is lunchtime when all the shops shut !
Do we know when BM arrived in France ?
Ferret/Dopey don’t forget Kelly , they still haven’t done an autopsy on him have they ?
I’ve also looked at the signatures & say the second one is from a different hand for a number of obvious reasons.
Another interesting aspect of Operation Mincement was the use of dry ice in a stainless steel container to preserve the body of “Major William Martin”. Strange, cryogenics is used in materials science and space rockets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenics
Sorry, that’s “Mincemeat”.
This (from wiki) explains why no inquest for Jo Yeates- someone was charged with her murder.
“In cases of suspicious death in England, the police are required to contact a coroner, who will open an inquest, which is automatically adjourned to allow the police to continue their investigations. This adjourned inquest means that the death can be officially registered and a temporary death certificate issued. If, as a result of police enquiries, a criminal is charged or an accident is shown to have occurred, a full death certificate is issued. Otherwise, the coroner holds a full inquest.”
Yes I can see what you mean Felix about the look, it is hard though when someone is put on the spot to give an interview the comment about Saad getting established maybe because Saad was discreet about his work or this could be another set up video I don’t know.
Frame of reference: When the white vans appeared at the home of now-convicted murderer air force Colonel Russell Williams, comments on news sites kept referring to “sweepers”.
Williams had served in electronic warfare and coastal patrol out of Nova Scotia earlier in his career, across the harbor from the top-secret naval intelligence base which hosted a spy in its midst. That spy was earning a monthly salary selling naval secrets to Russia for years, and recently confessed in court.
One of Williams’ victims was the daughter of a deceased navy man who had been based in the nation’s capital, which is not on an ocean. His other victim had worked unloading military airplanes, prior to working on Williams’ flight crew as a flight attendant.
Williams became commander of the nation’s largest military air base, which hosts a WMD response unit, and is in the process of becoming home base to the country’s special ops unit. Williams had no notable career achievements, other than a medal for years of service, and another for serving overseas.
Williams was born in Bromsgrove and had flown as a VIP pilot, whose passengers included QEII and Prince Philip during their tour of Canada. Williams’ father and stepfather had worked at the Chalk River nuclear reactor as scientists.
FYI as background information.
Sorry Ferret, I should have added, the second signature looks like its by Alan Little,maybe BM wasn’t around that day . Three looks iffy but I still think it’s by BM.
@Ferret: I guess it wouldn’t have looked very good for “Brett Martin” to use his intials only: “BM”.
Felix, of course I could be way off the mark, but I genuinely think BM was there as an innocent/ agent & watchful eye.
His shock was genuine & yes he had to pull it round & behave calmly, did the police do a DNA test of the blood on his hands, was it Molliers , yes if he dragged him out of the car.
He must be very relieved he wasn’t there earlier, it explains why he has been allowed to disappear……but at the same time he’d be angry at the double cross ?
I have only seen that he was ,Pink.
Sir Peter Ricketts, British Ambassador to France, BBC 7 Sept, who astonishingly turns up in Grenoble.[along with his deputy, it must be stressed, Kara Owen] Am astonishing turnout of diplomatic firepower btw.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19515407
Ricketts: “….what I am here to do is to make sure that the lines of communication are working in real time between the British police and the French police – they are – and every shred of possible information is being followed up…the co-operation really is excellent…..the older girl who is still badly hurt,or I think stable, we will be with her as soon as it’s medically feasible to be so..”
[no mention there of fractured skull or bullet in shoulder] “….our job is to provide friendly support to her” [the four year old]
So, is Ricketts still making sure there is excellent co-operation?? Doesn’t seem like it from what the Swedish uncle, Ahmad Al-Hilli said on the BBC. The BBC naturally doesn’t point out this contradiction.
So, what information has, 6 weeks later, the elder daughter given??? Nothing.
@Katie
“innocent”….”agent or watchful eye”
Innocent??
ah, I see, a (secret) agent or close protection officer perhaps on holiday alone in his second home who extraordinarily on a leisurely cycle ride just happens to come across a top-level diplomatic incident. Probablity being in billions to one I suspect.
Felix.
This is a sensitive case.
Why should they give us any bulletins on the children, they could be endangered, their parents were killed by someone with a grudge,talking about the girls brings them back into the picture,I would not expect any more news about them.
Even the funerals were kept secret until after the event. Clearly some danger still exists.
I wonder if Zaid has some protection ?