The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
All in a day’s work, helping little girls caught up in international intrigue, and people in the high tech and telecommunications industry:
http://blogs.fco.gov.uk/peterricketts/2012/09/21/two-examples-of-support-to-british-people-in-france/
@Felix: No, thank you!
I went here for more on that story:
http://drdavidkellyinquestrequired.blogspot.ca/2011_06_01_archive.html
To my surprise, the name “Jack Straw” came up, which led here:
http://www.basicint.org/sites/default/files/PUB010301.pdf
The UK Trident matter, wasn’t that known as the “Chevaline Scandal”?
… and here some general insights about the Frenchs’ way of conducting with police/crimes/MSM etc
(taken from: marilynztomlins.com)
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Marilyn wrote:
@Mark: Re; What’s going on in France?
Mark, thanks for your interest in the discussion going on here. We have knowledgeable commentators and they’ve discussed every aspect of the Al-Hilli Case.
As you would know, their frustration at the silence of the French authorities is intense. Mine is less so because I have become used to the French never ‘talking’. I do not again want to mention the death of Princess Diana and her lover Dodi Al Fayed, but where the British investigators were open about what they were doing the French never said a word. The thousands of pages of the British inquest were also made available to journalists, and they were even published on the internet (they have now been removed), but the French did not make the files of their investigations public. For a journalist or writer to have access to those these days one must apply in writing to the head of the Paris police and then it won’t be 100% certain that permission would be granted to view the ‘dossiers’.
You mentioned the recent photographs of The Duchess of Cambridge which a paparazzo took and which the French edition of ‘Closer’ published and spread over its front page.
The ‘Kate Case’ however is very different from the Al-Hilli one. The latter is a case where people were shot to death; no one died when Kate Middleton was ‘shot’ topless.
You say you are not French. I, too, am not French. I do however know the French well – in any case I like to think that I do – and I will say to you that the French have an odd relationship towards and with their police. The police are generally feared, most of the time disliked (even hated) the reason of which I won’t go into here but it goes back some time, yet there is also respect for the police.
As for the dislike: no French person would willingly assist the police by giving information about a crime. They reckon that the police get paid for the work they do, so do it, they should.
As for the fear: the French feel that it is wiser and safer to mind one’s own business because the police will only start asking questions and before they will say ‘bob’s your uncle’ the police will find a discrepancy in an income tax declaration of say 1972 even 1955, or a room that was added to a house without a building permit, therefore, why look for trouble?
As for the respect: crime reporters and editors all have a degree of knowledge about French law and they therefore know that a strict hierarchy exists in the police and the guy with the fingerprint dust and the camera at the scene of a crime is not the one who is going to issue statements to the media. Here in France the one who calls press conferences is the prosecutor and he will speak in the presence of the head of the particular police or gendarmerie sector in charge of the investigation, or the investigating magistrate. They would beforehand have jointly discussed and agreed what could be and would be revealed to the media.
I think I can safely say that none of the ‘leaks’ to the media has been confirmed by Prosecutor Eric Maillaud. I can also say that only AFP, the French news agency, appears to be able to call his office to verify the ‘leaks’.
As for the silence of Sylvain Mollier’s companion, relatives, friends and colleagues, they would have been told that they cannot speak to journalists. They may also be scared to be identified because whoever had killed the Al-Hillis and Sylvain Mollier is still a free man. I can tell you that I would do the same should I have known Mollier.
I hope I have replied to your questions. I must just say that I am not an expert – by no means – and I am sure that the others here would be able to and like to add or dismiss what I’ve just written.
One more thing: French journalism is very different from British and indeed U.S. journalism. I like to think that French journalists are more elegant than their British colleagues, and by elegant I’m not referring to clothes.
@Felix
I do think WBM is real. His marriage, family and house purchase check out in the timeline.
I think he’s real, but plural, and the identity is being used by multiple agents (serially).
What he was, and what he was doing on September 5 is less clear.
Indeed…
@ Olifant:
yep- you might be right- on that pic it looks more like a helmet than a cap….
Anyway- nothing that brings us really furhter…. same with the pic of SM on the net…. personally, I now think, this is just another man with the same name.
A little time spent at the second link I posted is worthwhile, for anyone wondering about lasers as weapons, and Rutherford Appleton. Information on the lasers is at Page 17 on:
http://www.basicint.org/sites/default/files/PUB010301.pdf
To paraphrase a quote from Jack Straw, whenever there are elephants in the room, there are elephant traps.
@Trow
“He would talk to himself, share dreams that he’d had about random killings and mutilations that he did, he would have statements against Arabs or Nazis or terrorist type movements,” the participant added.
There’s a world of difference between “sharing dreams that he’d had about random killings and mutilations”, and complaining of nightmares about such things. One is pleasant or simply curious, while the other is hellish.
The fact that he didn’t find them hellish makes it sound to me like he was unhinged, especially coupled with the other symptoms – talking to himself, smiling in an odd way, and making death threats to other programme participants. The word “psychotic” comes to mind.
Why the management ignored the complaints about him is unclear but that doesn’t make him a Mossad agent, it makes them incompetent or negligent.
I mean… think about it. The poor guy hadn’t been in Israel long enough to do even his *basic* military training, never mind the kind of extensive training that a Mossad agent has to undergo. Are you saying they’d send this untrained potter over to France to assassinate the Al-Hilli’s rather than send in seasoned pros like they did in Dubai?
Or are you saying he was secretly trained in the USA before he went on the Oranim programme? (And by the way, it’s [O]ranim, not [I]ranim.)
Personally I don’t think that the Mossad is so short of decent recruits that they have to use psychotic foreigners to do their dirty work for them, nor that their screening processes are so useless that they wouldn’t weed out people with mental health issues.
And incidentally, the Mossad is no more illegal than is MI5/MI6 or the CIA. (You said the Jewish Agency was the legal front for Mossad, so by implication…)
I don’t know if this story about Exxon and Iraq was posted, so my apologies if this is a repeat:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/18/us-exxon-iraq-urgent-idUSBRE89H0UD20121018
I agree with the other posters who commented about how strange it was that the Iraqi Embassy arranged the funeral. I doubt this facility is extended to many more Iraqi expatriates living in the UK. Very cosy with the American proxy sectarian Iraqi government (not to mention their close relations with Iran) indeed!
Presumably, there would be no need to study chemical weapons if no one was making them. So who is making them? Presumably, this would involve some sort of chemical factory. A lot must be at stake in this high-pressure business.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133201/Dr-Richard-Holmes-Suicide-riddle-weapons-expert-worked-David-Kelly.html
@Q
It’s a dangerous business, going out for walks.
😉
Two suspicious quotes from the police in that article:
Before finding his body, Wiltshire Police made a public appeal for information but warned people not to approach Dr Holmes for their own safety because they believed he had been ‘looking at information on the internet regarding self-harm and the use of toxic substances’.
Friends of Dr Holmes say this disclosure irritated his family, who questioned why a scientist engaged in chemical warfare research would ‘need to Google toxic substances’.
More likely they didn’t want his body found by a member of the public who might disclose embarrassing facts to the media.
And:
Police discovered his body half a mile away in a field used regularly by dog-walkers and joggers in the village of Laverstock.
Mr Tranter said the results of tests carried out to establish the cause of death would not be known for several weeks.
He added: ‘Police do not consider this death to be suspicious in any way, nor do they believe there was any third-party involvement.’
Oh yes, it’s not suspicious at all. We haven’t quite worked out how he died yet, but we’re quite sure it wasn’t suspicious. Yeah right.
Nothing to see here, people, move along now…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133201/Dr-Richard-Holmes-Suicide-riddle-weapons-expert-worked-David-Kelly.html
Katie, re 9.18pm
The ‘new’ photo from a helicopter couldnt be taken when Zainab was airlifted. The car was frozen until The finding Zeena saga, I hope they wouldnt wait that long until airlifting Zainab but with these Police who knows, and it is also I think it is a daytime photo.
Bluebird, re 9.51 pm
BMs rental house in Lathuile is over 13 miles from SMs work/house in Ugine. I dont think that would be close enough, even as an excuse to be in the area.
Shelock, re 11.20 pm
If the Sylvain Molliers are indeed 2 seperate people it begs the question why not release a photo of the dead SM, even if they used a bogus photo.
Thanks for replying, Ferret.
Everything about Hershkovitz before he went to Israel indicates that he was a sane, accomplished potter with a university degree who went to Israel to renew his Jewish roots, and while he was there no one has established that he didn’t leave it on several occasions.
All Kenneth Sorensen could come up with was an article which stated, as far as I can recall,that he arrived on August 27th, planning stay for five months in the Iranim program – and I am very sure about it being called that as it just jumped out to my eye because it was to help in bringing back Jews, especially from there, and particularly Jewish scientists. In short, the program is oriented to the needs of the Mossad.
In fact, this is the first time I have seen it called Oranim.
My hypothesis is that his recruiters told him that we want you to be part of a hit squad, as we want to see if you are willing to get your hands dirty as the last assassinations, especially that one of the Hamas leader in one of the Gulf State, were just too professional.
Besides Hershkkovitz had no obvious connection to Israel, and we can fix you up with a false identity in case you get caught.
It was like the Brits getting Captain Simon Hayward to become an assassin in the Palme case by his going through the test assassination of Francís Bradley with Derek Bird aka Private Walnut and other SAS operators.
Hershkovitz was completely disoriented when it came to killing, and mutilating a tourist party of six, four adults and two young girls, resulting his being increasingly unable to do it.
The one girl was only wounded and bashed, and the other wasn’t even found while the four adults were brutally shot, and their bodies mutilated.
It was only IMHO when Hershkovitz got back to Israel that he completely went off the rail, showing that he had had a hellish experience which he had nightmares about.
There are even comments from a man he roomed with, stating that he woke up in the middle of the night, and started pounding on the walls.
It didn’t take long for chef Armando al-Abed, a Christian Arab-Israeli,to see that he had just recently experiences a most terrible thing, and started asking questions about it. And, of course, they had to have included what happenened to fellow Shias, the al-Hillis.
The result was the deadly dispute which Hershkovitz would not walk away from because it would just increase al-Abed’s questions and suspicions. Hershkovitz wanted the troublesome Palestinian removed, if not killed, and thus William did it himself.
Need I say more?
I did check about the name of the program after I posted the above, and you are right about its name, and I am wrong, though it doesn’t change things much, as it started off to get back the 140,000 French Jews in and around Oran, Algeria after most of them went to France with the other ped noirs after it gained independence.
Then the alleged plight of the Iranian Jews became another priority
Dr Ahmed Al-Saffar, accompanied Zaid on a visit to the Imam Khoei Islamic Centre in Queens Park, North-West London, to discuss the funeral prayer ceremony
http://mosques.muslimsinbritain.org/show-mosque.php?id=1057
Is the choice of this mosque, nowhere near Kingston-upon-Thames, but in Chevening Road, Brent, NW6, anything to do with the satellte shop Digi Smart Limited, 162 West Hendon Broadway NW9 7AA, which we came across in a previous thread, with directors Ali and Safa Al-Hill?
{https://www.duedil.com/company/05342554/digi-smart-ltd/people}
{http://217.174.255.109/director/910272841}
{http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/910272842}
@Katie
Sorry, but any story involving the unseen Al-Hilli children is likely to be disinformation. But I am glad you accept that BM is not some innocent cyclist. Therefore you must accept that his one and only broadcast also contained disinformation. As, probably, every interview volunteered to the media has done.
@Q
Dr Holmes business closed down very quickly.
[Coroner’s officer for Wiltshire, Paul Tranter] added: ‘Police do not consider this death to be suspicious in any way, nor do they believe there was any third-party involvement.’
That sentence sends out very loud alarm bells… now, move along please, nothing to see..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133201/Dr-Richard-Holmes-Suicide-riddle-weapons-expert-worked-David-Kelly.html
Felix
I sent you a photo of the digi smart shop long ago here. This shop is not suspicious. It is small and sells TV and sat dishes for customers like you and me. Their jobs are sat dishes installations and tv repair. Looks like all those small pakistani shops in london. Really nothing suspicious here.
Straw.
RE: the aerial photo…it was daylight when Zainab was airlifted. There’s a video clip showing the helicopter overhead. As for the site being frozen, yes if true [?] you are right because the men are in forensic suits, then this photo was taken in the following days …….. this makes me wonder who arrived via helicopter ?
I assume Zeena was also airlifted out but during the night.
Morning Felix.
I always doubted BM, my first thought when seeing him on TV that day was SAS/agent & far too controlled for a passerby.
Since then I’d say that feeling has been vindicated by the fact he’s been allowed to disappear.
BTW, I see see a Sa’ad Al Hilli has checked out my profile on Linkedin….as did BM, I wonder if it is because I live in France ?
Katie
They checked your linkedin profile because you checked tgeirs. Whenever you look at a linkedin profile the otger user gets a message that you did and he is welcome by linkedin to invite you. Checking linkedin with your ID mekes you open and visible to everybody whom you had checked. Therefore they are checking you. Since i am searching linkedin i am getting invitations from NATO, al Saffars and Iraqi military units to my linkedin profile.
I always admit my mistakes asap as I believe it can help reveal things overlooked in the process, and I think that it is the case here.
The most troublesome part of the assassinations is the most brutal ones that Sylvain Mollier and Suhaila al-Saffar experienced. They seemed to be just innocent parties in the group, Slyvain apparently just an innocent passer-by if some are to be believed.
What if they both are lapsed Jews or at least most hostile towards the state of Israel?
It would certainly explain why the French and the Swedes tell us almost nothing about them while we are buried with stuff about the al-Hillis.
Was Sylvain the kind of guy that Oranim had long tried to bring back to Judaism, and get to go to Israel?
And when he didn’t, apparently preferring to spy, it seems, for the hated Iranians, he was subjected to a ceremonial murder – first shot, and the last one executed with no less than five bullets.
And it would explain why Suhaila was left in England after the French took her body there, so that she could be buried by members of her family who had remained Muslims.
She, like Ali Reza Pahlavi, was more interested in working for the mullahs than seeing to their overthrow.
For more on the subject, though note that its subtitle has been changed by spooks, see this link:
http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=39867
Must look for more details about their family backgrounds.
Bluebird, yes I realise that now , you can see why this would work in business, its taken ‘networking’ to a whole new meaning.
Jesus help!
Trowbridge. i stopped reading your link after some paragraphs because i came to the conclusion that the killer was Tiger Woods whose Swedish ex wife had links to Mossad and told them that he eats my young children for having more birdies. then mossad forced him to kill those guys in france and in return promising him that they wint tell us that he eats young birds……
Oh my god ….
And, of course, you came, as usual, to the wrong conclusion.
If you read the whole article, you would see that I blame America’s NSA, especially its Special Collection Service, for
assassinating Ali Reza Pahlavi, though it certainly benefited Israel.
Why do you always try to help Israel, especially its Mossad, no matter what is discussed?
@ Q 23 Oct, 2012 – 6:38 pm
“I found some very interesting applications for depleted uranium…”
Can also be used as shielding for transport of radioactive materials, though that’s most often lead.
Russell William’s step-father, Jerry Sovka, is project manager for ITER down in Aix-en-Provence. At least he was as of 2007.
@ straw44berry 24 Oct, 2012 – 6:53 am “Katie, re 9.18pm
The ‘new’ photo from a helicopter couldnt be taken when Zainab was airlifted… I think it is a daytime photo.”
From the shadows looks like it was taken around the same time as other aerial shots, closer to noon. So The Sun has other pics available. Why none earlier in the day, around sunrise, if they were not allowed to fly at night? Or did the French have a no-fly-zone over the crime scene?
One problem the media has, if they’re using a photographer’s or stock agency’s photos, is that they pay in the UK approx. 60 pounds each pic for a 3 month license, so they try to use the same few over and over.
Trowbridge
I do not support israel nor do i support usa or russia. I try to investigate. I dont blame you. But when i read that you brought fritzl into the game in the first paragraph and haider in the last one then i said: oh my god. What BS. Perhaps you had a link to Dutroux as well somewhere in the middle of your article. Such things make it inconvenient to read your text in a convenient and serious way.
There are more serious conspiracy theories. One of which i find pretty cool.
The al Saffar roots of their origin are from Saffariya. “al” means “from”. Al saffar – from Saffariya.
Now. Saffariya was the city of the Templars. That can be read in books of history. The Templars stayed there for many decades and they had children with the local women. Money has never been a problem for the al Saffars. In europe, most Templars were killed and tgeir ancestors too. Not so those who stayed in Palestine and settled there. When it comes to the Illuminati, then the al Saffars would definitely have a Seat in their conference.if you believe in illuminati then you certainly must add up the al saffar family and give them an important influence in world politucs.
2) I agree with your links to the Palme assassination. Given the information by late eva rausing and the time table of the events there might be links to suhaila.
PKK leader Oeczalan was interviewed because PKK was one of the suspects. He said that he knew who did it but it was not PKK. He said that it was a shia terror organisation in sweden led by an iraqi woman. We never knew about that woman.
@Trow
The case you mention of Captain Simon Hayward proves my point: he had the benefit of extensive military training in the British Army.
Poor old Hershkkovitz on the other hand, had none.
As I’ve already pointed out, Hershy hadn’t been in Israel long enough to complete even the most basic military training, never mind the kind of training a Mossad agent would have to go through.
Plus, he was a foreign national – not someone who would be immediately trusted.
So… altogether, the idea that Mossad would put an untrained, untried, and above all *foreign* agent into the field to complete a mission of this nature is, I think, entirely fanciful and far-fetched.
Not *impossible* of course – just very, VERY unlikely.
I mean, one has to wonder if Hershy could even fire a gun… If so, when and where did he learn? Did his Oranim buddies notice him gone for days at a time when he could have been undertaking secret military training?
No, they didn’t.
They didn’t report *any* unusual absences at all. On the other hand, they *did* report a lot of other unusual things, eg death threats, pounding walls in the night, strange dreams of killings etc, so I think they could be expected to have said eg “he kept disappearing at odd times, sometimes for days at a time” if that were they case, but they didn’t.
The argument with the chef could also be explained in other terms, eg Hershy’s reported outbursts against extremists and terrorist groups, which probably included muslims/arabs in the Israeli/Palestinian context, and probably annoyed the chef (a Palestinian Arab) no end. Maybe the chef eventually told him to shut up, or he’d shut him up with a carving knife and serve him for roast dinner? Who knows. You are reading a lot into it that just isn’t there.
In short, the program [Oranim] is oriented to the needs of the Mossad.
Yeah, right, Mossad are in desperate need of potters from the USA with no military training, as they’re starting pottery classes for their agents, or perhaps they’re branching out into homewares!
😀
Now that idea is really, well… literally potty…
PS. I’m not saying that Mossad didn’t do it, nor that Mossad don’t recruit foreign nationals.
What I *am* saying that there are a lot of civilian programmes in Israel for foreigners that have nothing whatsoever to do with Mossad. And I’m also saying that people do, sadly, sometimes suffer from mental disorders, and that these disorders sometimes lead them to do violent things, which have nothing whatsoever to do with the security services.
trow:
regarding Palme (BBC from 2001)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1262002.stm
Öszalan: An Iraqi Swedish group who wanted to discredit the Kurdish PKK, did assassinate Palme. This group is led by a woman.
Absolutely, laughable.
You blame me for discussing assassinations going on now where the Israelis, Americans,and Brits take turns, bumping off troublemakers like Jurgen Möllemann,Stepen Hilder, Dr. Kelly, Anna Lindh, Pim Fortuyn, Theo van Vogh, Alexander Litvinenko, and Jorg Haider, while the Anglo-Americans eliminate Olof Palme, Uwe Barschel, Gareth Williams, Gudrun Loftus, Ali Reza Pahlavi, and Steve Rawlings, only to bring in the Templars and Eva Rausing when it comes to pinning assassinations, especially the Palme one, on Suhaila al-Saffar!
Actually, the Annecy massacre, now that Mossad assassination-in-chief Meir Dagan is gone, is a joint effort where NSA supplied the sigint, the Mossad the killers, and the Brits the cover up.
Eva Rausing thought her husband or Eric Penser arranged the Palme killing – explaining why Hans was in no hurry to disclose her dying, and the PKK was just putting the Stockholm assassination back in the Iraqis’ court.
You should try reading reliable stuff about the current world!