Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278

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The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?

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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis”

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  • Shelock H.

    re pics of SM.
    have a look at his twin zodiac sign he’s wearing (twin is june- but the murdered SM is supposed to be born in april)
    Anyway, the SM on the pic looks some years younger than 45, IMHO

    I also found re Sylvain M. aka Momo:

    http://www.acafc.net/article-joyeux-anniversaire-sylvain-76125794-comments.html#anchorComment

    http://www.acafc.net/article-joyeux-anniversaire-sylvain-76125794.html

    Wrong turn taken, hm ?

    And – last but not least @ Trowbridge:
    I guess, you’re not at all interested in what I’m thinking and doing- but- I’ve given up reading your ill comments long ago.
    Sometimes, I’m wondering if you’re involved in the case (ie being the insane nutter…) and wanting to throw it on this young Israeli.
    Sorry, but that has to be said!!
    Just my humble opinion….

  • SoftCat

    I’ve been following this post without posting up to now. Re SM’s picture, which was first on the Icke forum, what struck me was that on the picture one can clearly see that he is wearing a medallion with the sign Gemini on it. Yet on ALL websites I checked trying to get his birthdate, he is said to be born in April 1967 (could not find the exact day though). I’m an astrologer so this is the first thing I saw when the picture of the alleged SM went online. Being born in April makes him either Aries either Taurus. Not Gemini. Of course he might be wearing a Gemini medallion even if he is not born under that birth sign, but it makes no sense to do so.
    … Unless he was wearing the medallion of his June newborn (Gemini or Cancer).

  • straw44berry

    Ferret, @1.38

    You took the words out of my head. Is that realistic for the 2 women in the back seat?
    Why was the back hatch open? We dont know if that was how they found it.
    If shot from behind it would explain the bullet mark at the bottom of the windscreen drivers side.
    Would that hatch open at the press of a button by SAH to keep them cool?
    Dont believe the shots could happen from the final position of the BMW.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Am sure that you are missing the whole point about the gun-environment that William Hershkovitz grew up in around Hyde Park by concentrating on the number of guns in states when the problem is really one between the rural areas, and the urban ones.

    It’s a culture war, and it is easy to see why it is least evident in New York State where the vast number are urbanites, so the gun possession figures are way down because of the relatively few rural people.

    Hershy grew up in a rural area I am acquainted with, having worked on a farm in Clinton Corners nearby while in college, and I am sure that he adopted its gun-culture, like Bird did in Cumbria, and demonstrated it by carrying out the shootings I have discussed.

    For more on this war, see this link:

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/25/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-guns/

    Still looking for that link which described the shooting of al-Abed in terms reminiscent of what happened to the adults in the Annecy massacre.

  • straw44berry

    Shelock, when was the SM photo we have taken? I for sure dont know how many years ago it was.

    Good find of the birthday photo, that SM sure likes that hat.
    So Hunter SMs b/day 10th June approx.

    How do you know SMs is in April?

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Oh, and another thing, I have never called for anyone to be banned – just said that I would stop responding to Bluebird’s idiocy, as far as I can recall.

    And I did suggest that the thread itself be given a mercy-killing because it really doesn’t deserve to survive, as it is getting nowhere.

  • bluebird

    @peter
    I am no weaponry expert and no gun expert. I just cited what I have found and the likelyhood of DUM DUM being used to explain the apparent face injuries.

    @ferret
    I am no gun expert and no forensic expert regarding bodies. However, I believe that when your face is shot with a DUM DUM from one side, then the other side of the face might be blown off. Peter will correct us as he is the expert in guns. The wounds are of course more severe with truncated bullets. The RAF man Moss states in his forum conversation that 7.65 DUM DUM for the Luger are apparently still produced in Italy today (as far as I understood it) – but guns do not belong to my special knowledge. Ask me about eggs and nests.

  • Tim V

    Interesting Ferret 25 Oct, 2012 – 12:39 pm. One thing’s certain. If the same gun was used this could be determined in hours. The fact that it hasn’t indicates it wasn’t or the Insp. Clouseau doesn’t want us to know.

  • bluebird

    Trow

    you’re like the ghost driver on the highway, still insisting that you’re right and that all the others are idiots although everybody else could prove that you#re driving on the wrong side of the highway. We are investigating. None of us ever told here who it was. I am personally not interested at all about who it was. I want to know WHY it was done and WHETHER OR NOT it was done the way the media presented it to us. Perhaps it wasn’t even done at all and fake, as some others here might suggest from time to time. Take your Hershey please to bed or better hang his picture onto your wall but PLEASE give us a rest if you don’t want to investigate yourself to present us any proof except of your own fantasy!

  • Ferret

    @Trow

    I am sure that he adopted its gun-culture, like Bird did in Cumbria, and demonstrated it by carrying out the shootings I have discussed.

    It’s precisely this certainty which is so worrying. Have you thought about seeing anyone about it?

    And is there any chance that you might consider publishing links to support the “facts” you have quoted about William Herskowitz, such as the farm you say he worked on, and your claim that he shot the chef twice in the head? (I asked for that one before.) Call me suspicious, but…

    “Public records and Internet searches suggest that he attended the State University of New York at New Paltz and worked there as a ceramic technician, then became the proprietor of Merlin Pottery.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/world/middleeast/american-kills-worker-at-israeli-hotel-then-is-shot-by-police.html?_r=0

  • straw44berry

    The confirmation of his birth being in April 1967 was the public prosecutor who could recognise SM by means other than his face, I assume. I doubted this when I first read it and still do.

  • Ferret

    @Bluebird

    I don’t believe a word Peter says about ballistics – as far as I’m concerned his speciality is bullistics!

    😀

    So… you shoot someone in the head with a dum-dum bullet, Peter, and it comes out the other side in a nice neat hole, yes? Is that your thesis???

  • straw44berry

    I have a problem with the SM archery photo, I am very surprised he would wear his watch on that arm.

  • Tim V

    @ Ferrett 11.55 “So why then are at least two of the victims described as being so disfigured as to require identification by DNA?” This s news to me and doesn’t tie up at all with previous reports: “shot in the middle of the head” Guardian. “Shot in middle of forehead” several other subsequent reports. In either of these, even with dum dum the main damage would be on OPPOSITE side to entry as we all know, so if shot in forehead the damage at the back, if shot in side the damage to other side. In neither is the face so badly damaged to be unrecognisable.

  • olifant

    If you listen to BM’s actual words when he met PD + friends he urgently told them of the very bad event and therefore asked them to make a 112 call “which they did”. Then they went up to the site. BM clearly meant that there was a call made when he met PD – at 15.48? (Sky Video 13 September 2012)

    PD says he then descended a few metres to ring the pompiers. One presumes,a second phone call. It would seem compatible with both men’s statements and also quite natural that PD et al would comply with BM’s initial panicky and urgent request but secondly, having seen how things were for himself, PD rings the secours again telling them what he has just seen.

    Online translation is milseading when it translates that PD came upon BM at 14.01, the original was: peu avant 16.00 heures. After leaving the car park he descends a few meteres to contact the pompiers. The first call recorded by the emergency service, which arrived a few minutes later. (confused reprting here? this refers to prior call?) Quelques secondes plus tard, il redescend de quelques mètres pour contacter les pompiers. Le premier appel enregistré par les secours, qui arrivent une poignée de minutes plus tard.(leParisien.fr Publié le 11.09.2012)

    Philippe, who passed the call to summon the emergency service is chronodate at 15: 48. A crucial witness. “I went back up with constables to the spot on Sunday to recall / (?readjust) positionings and timings”, indicates the hiker. [Philippe, qui a passé le coup de fil pour appeler les secours, est chronodaté à 15h48. Un témoin capital. « Je suis remonté avec les gendarmes sur place dimanche pour recaler les positionnements et les horaires », indique le randonneur] (leParisien.fr Publié le 13.09.2012)

    An unlikely possibility: BMs first 112 call was registered although his phone told him otherwise.

  • Ferret

    @Trow

    I have never called for anyone to be banned

    Tee hee hee… hilarious… can’t you even remember what you wrote three days ago?

    I did see your post, Katie, and wondered if there would still be posters who thought it was all just a most complicated charade. Think that the thread should only permit posters which assume or acknowledge this:

    1. This was a most deliberate massacre where all persons at its site were the
    intended targets.

    2. Mollier and Saad were murdered because of some plot they were involved in,
    perhaps even unknowlingly, most likely helping the Iranians catch up with the
    West while limiting its ability to damage what Tehran is attempting.

    3. The killers, which included BM, were doing the dirty work for Israel – to
    make sure that Iran didn’t get what they were attempting – and two of them
    were hitmen.

    4. The 4 X 4 looks like the escape vehicle in which at least three of the
    international kidon were travelling. Two of them could be hiding in the car
    while the third one was driving.

    5. Once the 4 X 4 got out of the area, the three of them were in the clear,
    able to make their way to some international airport, most likely Paris, and
    get back to Israel.

    6. Still suspect that one of them is William Hershkovitz, explaining why the
    Israelis are trying to make out now that he committed suicide when he was
    cornered in that kitchen, as it is a most convenient way to cover up a real
    mess, and why disinformers mistakenly refer to WBM when it is only BM.

    Please add or eliminate any erroneous assumptions.

    — Trowbridge H. Ford 22 Oct, 2012 – 9:36 am

  • Ferret

    @Tim V

    The car was owned by an Iraqi-born British citizen, Saad Al-Hilli, 50, who had been camping with his family near by since Monday. British officials are satisfied that Mr Al-Hilli was the man found in the driver’s seat with his head smashed by a close-range shot from an automatic pistol.

    The two women found dead in the back seat of the car are thought to have been his wife, Ikbal, and her mother. Swedish and Iraqi passports were found on the body of the older woman. French officials insist that her face and that of the male victim were too badly damaged to allow formal identification until DNA tests are performed on samples flown from Britain today.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-horror-and-mystery-of-the-annecy-killings-8114016.html

    (Originally posted by Felix)

  • Ferret

    @Trow (again)

    … and I wrote:

    And I note with some dismay that you have previously requested that people following this particular line of inquiry should be be banned from this discussion, have you not?

    So I was spot on.

  • Q

    Sylvain Mollier, identified by photograph after being shot how many times, and how many shots to the head? Any DNA tests there?

    Gareth Williams identified by photograph, not DNA, despite the state of advanced decomposition of his body?

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    When I first heard — around 1993-94 — that US soldiers stationed primarily along the border of Kuwait, were asking their superiors to borrow lorries in order to drive to Jeddah to purchase some goods, I said to myself (knowing Arab sensitivities regarding this holy country): O, know, what are they up to, this will end wrong. everyone KNOWS the general lack of knowledge of other cultures that Americans have.

    So it all comes down to this: NEVER allow Americans to drive around freely on trheir own will in saudi Arabia – of all places! If you _MUSAT place them in this country DOH! by all means confy them to the border area next to Kuwait. Do NOT allow them to drive around. Because you know how soldiers are. They get bored, and ask their superiors to loan a truck.

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    And as we now know – this these soldiers activities on holy Saudi soil was a prime motivation behind 9/11. Osama bin Laden was a Saudi and 16 out of 19 hijackers were Saudies.

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    And it really all comes down to condemning the man responsible for their continued stay following the First Gulf War, prior to which King Fahd had been promised that they would be withdrawn following the end of hostilities. The man was the Austaralian Jew, american citizen from 1993, Martin Indyk, who planned and executed this in…1993. The reason they should stay put (they were withdrawn in 2004) was of course that they should be resy to “finishthe job”, i.e. move to Baghdad should an opportunity arise, which it did opn 9/11, and the rest is — as they say — hitory.

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