The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@Felix
Can’t believe Dr Kelly’s death cert isn’t signed!
OMG.
How do they get away with this sh1t?
Sorry Katie
26 Oct, 2012 – 8:46 am but this seems all supposition. Where do you get “Zainab on the bonnet” from? We do not know who’s blood is where but the French police undoubtedly do if they have the laboratory results of samples. They cannot be THAT incompetent not to take them surely? I agree that once dead natural congealing properties set in. Bleeding and blood contamination will result from a lot of factors – location and type of wound etc. But we can’t get away the fact that Mollier was much more severely injured than Zainab, he probably had three times the amount of blood, he was probably wearing cycling gear, thereby less to absorb, he was apparently alive and injured before the fatal shots to the head. It is therefore reasonable to assume he lost far more blood than Zainab. The heaviest blood staining on the ground is likely therefore to have come from him not her. There is nothing to say IF he was in the passenger seat when the attack happened, he was not forced at gun point to get out and THEN shot outside is there?
@Trow
I will come out of retirement merely to correct your distortion of my position, which is (and always has been) that while it is *possible* that Herskowitz was involved, I consider it to be extremely unlikely.
Should further *evidence* come to light, my view would naturally change to reflect it.
My problem is not with what you are posting, nor with your views, but with the lack of any distinction between fact, supposition, and fantasy in your writings.
And without references to your sources it is impossible to independently check whether your conclusions are based on any real data or are simply invented.
Thus, while being of passing interest, your pronouncements are of little value to the genuinely independent researcher.
Guy Liddell diaries from 1945-53 has just been released today and is available to view online and free to download fro the next month.
As far as I can see, his crucial war time diaries are not available at the archives, so its fortunate that David Irving has them as a free download here:
{http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/Liddell/index.html}
Hi Ferret
26 Oct, 2012 – 3:02 pm “What do you make of the report in the Independent, early in the investigation, that the bodies were unrecognisable and had to be identified by DNA samples? Either I’ve missed your post or you haven’t come back since I reposted the link Felix dug up.”
Yup well I did comment on this aspect back along (for what it was worth!) My point was all bullets, esp dum dum, tend to enter clean and leave “untidily” if they don’t remain lodged inside. However if reports can be believed i.e. “shot in middle of forehead” or just “middle of head” I don’t see how this would make them so damaged that only DNA could be used to identify. My point was the greatest damage would tend to be on the OPPOSITE side to the entry wound i.e. either far side or back. Of course there is a remote possibility that stray bullets might have damaged faces. Again only the police and pathologists really know and we just make logical guesses.
Otherwise I thought that Independent article was a complete mess!
Ikbal : daughter of a university lecturer
The earliest paper by Mrs Al-Allaf I can find is
Radwan, M. S., Al-Fakhry, A. K., Al-Saffar, S. M., Al-Jubouri, H. H. (1974) Seed characteristics, palatability, and natural frequency of some wild annual legumes in northern Iraq. Mesopotamia J. Agric. 9:21-31.
She also seems to have worked in Cairo thereafter, or perhaps collaborated with researchers there
{http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search/display.do?f=1978/EG/EG78002.xml;EG7700541}
From the 1980s the trail goes cold.
Al-Allaf, S. M. 1976. Radiation studies in Helianthus annuus. Ph. D. Thesis, University of London
Your coming out of retirement, Ferret, is based upon your trying to show that your thoughts are based up facts when, in fact, they are based upon steadfast myths.
Take you characterizaion of Hershkovitz (note spelling) as a psychopath who went postal, though there is not a shred of evidence that he was a psychopath before he went to Israel as part of the JAIF’s oranim program that it is running for the Mossad to recruit agents for its current dirty work aka Sayanim for Spring – see Jacob Cohen’s book about it – to suit the opportunities provided by the Arab Spring.
Hershkovitz seemed like an ideal recruit, given his nationality, rural skills, and independence.
While he was there – when the program wasn’t having him travel somewhere – he increasingly started going berserk, threatening colleagues in the program as if they had somehow betrayed him, and going after the chefs so much because of their increasing suspicions of him that he ultimately killed Armando in a hail of bullets, reminiscent of how Derek Bird went berserk when he feared that his bosses were betraying him, and his taxi colleagues increasingly made fun of, and took advantage of.
They both snapped, and killed as many as they could.
After all this, you have not changed your ideas one iota.
Now please, keep your promise this time, as talking to you gets nowhere.
Felix
Great find regarding suhaila. I found her in the london telephone book on ancestry.cim for the early 1980tees. So she was not lost but living or working in the uk. However i have nothing of her from 1983 and later. Her london address i posted either on this topic of that blog or in the previous one.
Felix
The phone book entry is from 1980-1982
Name:S M Allaf
Address:21 Chesney CT,Shirland Rd W9
City/Town:Cunningham, Maida Vale
London
Pretty much likely the sister of suhaila:
Lelah M Allaf
Residence Year:1941
Street Address:1710 Grant
Residence Place:Denver, Colorado
Denver, Colorado, City Directory, 1941
Was she growing up in the usa? That would explain a lot of her high education.
@Bluebird.
Did she marry in London? Might be on ancestry.
@Bluebird
there is a lot of research by SM El-Allaf (or El-Allaf SM) on the web – same botanical field… Research in the USA. Need to have a closer look.
@NR: The way the information flowed (or didn’t) between various levels of intelligence and the police may be indicative of what’s going on in this case. Also, the crossed wires and various stories leaking out via the media seem to resemble this case. Very little seems to ring true about the Chevaline story.
@NR: Did you notice the Colorado connection in the story of Gareth Williams? His friend was posted there several weeks before GW died.
SSTL has a division in Colorado, for starters.
Felix
Unfortunately no more documents on ancestry regarding suhaila. Likely she did not marry in usa or uk. Otherwise there should be documents.
When you search usa databases truncate the “al”. The americans dont have the “al” or “el” in the names. Just search “allaf” or “saffar” in the usa.
What i found is that her husband amir al saffar was born in iraq and died in switzerland. But no marriage documents.
Felix
I found something about abdulamir al saffar. Iqbals father and suhailas husband.
I must say that i am not 100% sure but DOB and locations seem plusible to me. When did he die? 2005?
The po box addresses must be companies of him. Can we find out?
Name:Amir Saffar
Mother’s Maiden Surname:Vassallo
Date of Registration:Nov 1998
Registration district:Newcastle upon Tyne
Inferred County:Tyne and Wear
Born 1916-2005
Name:Abdulamir A Saffar
Address:3309 N 93rd St,
Omaha, NE, 68134
1992
Name:Abdulamir AL Saffar
Address:2075 SW 122nd Ave Apt 209, Miami, FL, 33175-7336
(1993)
Abdulamir E Saffar[Abdulamir E Alsaffar] Phone Number:435-2292Address:PO Box 83051 # 8, Lincoln, NE, 68501-3051[PO Box 83052, Lincoln, NE, 68501-3052 (1993)] [1315 F St 8, Lincoln, NE, 68508] [1315 F St 8, Lincoln, NE, 68506 (1994)] [PO Box 83051 # 174, Lincoln, NE, 68501-3051 (1990)]
Abdulamir E Saffar[Abdulamir E Alsaffar] Address:17 Sheridan Dr, Shrewsbury, MA, 01545-3852 (1988)[9 23rd 71, Shrewsbury, MA, 01545 (1988)]
Abdulamir E SaffarAddress:PO Box 83052, Lincoln, NE, 68501-3052 (1995)
Felix
Here i found a ship ticket for queen elizabeth. However here his birth date is given as 1918. In the uk files it is given as 1916. Dont know if this is the same guy or the DOB was not for sure at those times.
Name:Abdul Amir Saffar
Arrival Date:23 Jan 1948
Birth Date:abt 1918
Birth Location:Iraq
Birth Location Other:baghdad
Age:30Gender:Male
Place of Origin:Iraq
Port of Departure:Southampton, England
Port of Arrival:New York, New York
Ship Name:Queen Elizabeth
@Bluebird
26 Oct, 2012 – 8:44 pm
The husband of Suhaila died 2011:
“Mrs al-Allaf, a Swedish passport holder, and her son had been living in southern Stockholm when she joined the Hilli’s on their French holiday.
Her husband, Mr Thaher’s father, Abdul al-Saffar, died last year from kidney problems.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9539370/France-shooting-alleged-violent-past-of-son-of-Alps-murder-victim.html
—-
How can the son of Suhaila & Abdul be named Haydar Thaner? Thaner is the familynamn of the disabled son.
Yes thomas. Forget my first entry about amir saffar. 1916-2005 was just the registry but not the birth. Amir al saffar with mother vassallo is NOT our al saffar. However tge other USA entries regarding abdulamir saffar with DOB 1918 seems to be the correct one.
Forget the newcastle link. This was an error of mine since i mixed up date of the registry book woth his personal data.
@Bluebird
26 Oct, 2012 – 9:22 pm
Pls chk this, it´s strange, maybe it´s just in my browser. Go to the middle of the page to the right.
PDF-version of what looks as the death of the husband in 2011, I can only see al-Sa ar, the “ff” is gone:
http://arkiv.mitti.se:4711/2011/30/botkyrka_salem/MIBO-20110726-A-014-A.pdf
Cached web version, here al-Saffar can be seen in full:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Yo7o7Sv5dEUJ:arkiv.mitti.se:4711/2011/30/botkyrka_salem/MIBO-20110726-A-014-A.pdf+Abdul-Ameer+Al-Saffar+f%C3%B6dd+1934&hl=sv&gl=se&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESi-MjWcfeuz_IF3feDIyotzA0EU1CE9ez1IQmsYq4xLEhMnpQYEa1FsnWDNzx2BzQqx7_xChZ8Wr-Rd2LTcX84gGGexZlEfo-B8_3gIAr8HYuiFDaKZcXTaIoFuCIu-mKlXJgJ9&sig=AHIEtbQUlpDCrVKYiQTsupX-vUwJESPtyg
Dödsfall = death
Tumba is a part of “Botkyrka”.
The name of what seems to be the diseased husband is: Abdul-Ameer Al-Saffar, born 1934.
@Bluebird
I was also barking up the wrong tree with plant researcher SM El-Allaf in Ohio, USA…name is Samia.
I rechecked the usa entries regarding abdulamir al saffar. They are wrong. Sorry. The usa al saffar is 47 years old.
http://www.peoplefinders.com/p/abdul+alsaffar
Too many similar names. Then there is nothing left of al saffar in the usa except for perhaps the boat ticket. 🙁
Yes thomas. I can see it abdul ameer al saffar born 1934.
Pity there is no delete nor edit function for our own messages
At least i found a brother and a sister of iqbal. Does not help a lot. Both MD.
http://colmed-alnahrain.edu.iq/cv/Atheer%20Jawad%20Abdul%20Ameer%20Al-Saffar.php
http://www.facebook.com/public/Marwa-Abdulameer-AL-Saffar
@ Bluebird
The sister of Iqbal is a pharmacist. I provided a link ages ago to a page on Reading University where she was listed.
@Bluebird
26 Oct, 2012 – 9:47 pm
The spelling is:
Abdul-Ameer Al-Saffar
As it´s in an “official advertising” in a newspaper, it must correspond with the spelling in the national register.
( The “ff” missing was then just in my browser, nothing of importance )
Yes katie that is the sister living in reading. However, the other two whom i mentioned today must be son and daughter of iqbals father, too. So far unknown sister and brother. Both MD in their profession.
@ Bluebird
Iqbal’s sister is Fadwa al Saffar.