The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@ Felix 27 Oct, 2012 – 6:19 pm 27 Oct, 2012 – 7:50 pm
Thanks for the links. I’d glanced at some back when, but thought they were stretched conspiracies. But anngirfan (and also ickes) I take more seriously now, after they’ve proven to be spot-on about Savile, the elite pedo connections and probably the snuff videos mentioned at abeldanger too. I’ll read them in detail.
@NR
Aangirfan joins the dots, plus adds some anon info.
The second Williams link [I think I found that independently] has a link with some info about his PhD supervisor at Manchester (now at, coincidentally, Bangor University) Professor (William) Terry Hewitt was GW’s referee for his MI5 vetting. Hewitt has his own company WTH Associates Ltd.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1315388_professor_who_helped_death_riddle_spy_get__job_at_mi6
{http://wthassociates.com/}
http://something-stinks.com/Chevaline%20Murders/Table%20of%20Links.htm
Olifant
27 Oct, 2012 – 10:25 pm Problems with this: “Already in woods” – how arrive; how leave? Apparently no supporting evidence of being in there. Who arrived first SAH or Mollier? Neither could have got there much before WBM. I didn’t read that they drove over Mollier but struck him as they reversed at speed but of course i could have got it wrong. In any event Mollier was IN FRONT of the car as was his bike. Problem is, if WBM is to be believed, the position in which the police found him was not where he initially fell but where Martin moved him. Then there is the conflicting evidence of blood stains that suggests to me that Mollier actually fell and bled outside the front passenger door where Martin placed Zainab. All things being equal the theory that the killer “ran out of bullets” is not consistent with the Luger. Normally EIGHT bullets in a magazine; 25 casings found i.e. there would have been SEVEN left. Jamming would be a better excuse if they were looking for one. I understand it’s possible to get an adaption to 15 magazine but even on this count there would have been FIVE unused. And if a crazed psychopath as is now being pushed, why not kill girl AND Martin when he arrived. Martin has never mentioned ear phones as he surely would have if he wanted a cover story for not hearing shots. No French authorities you will have to “try harder”.
Increasingly it would appear to me that the timings are such that Martin must have been so close to events he could have witnessed far more than he is prepared to admit. Is it possible that he was actually part of the meet and was either spared or escaped unharmed?
Because of the unanswered, or unanswerable, inconsistencies in the official story line, I am wary of everything that is put out. It is a sad state of affairs when one cannot trust the criminal and justice system of a democratic country. The five million dollar (or Franc) question of course is what can be so important that government would consider it necessary? “Death of Horses” – Interestingly when you Google up comes “AUGUST 7, 2012 at 11:24 PM –
Two New Zealand newspapers report that a former wrangler who worked on The Hobbit alleges that “incompetence” caused the deaths of several animals used in the production.” OK the allusions are purely co-incidental, Martin being a Kiwi and all, but Chevaline? This of course was the name given to the British up-grade to the Polaris missile. No a Luger to do the deed with all it’s German connotations. We all know the secret service types are big on mythologies and allusions. As you say the standard Luger has only eight bullets so we only have two alternatives if only one was used as is the suggestion: multiple changes (at least 3) or a rather specialist magazine with 15. Both mitigate against the official story as either it suggests professional or impractical. They have reverted to the irrational “mad psychopath” hypothesis, for which only one gun is required but mad psychopaths tend to keep killing and both Zainab and Martin were spared which rather undermines that one. I admire you sticking to your theory even when it has more hole in than a Gruyère cheese. If it was correct it would have been necessary for the car to reverse over Mollier to get in that position. Anyway why reverse rather than go forward unless his exit was blocked? I am not of the opinion that WBM is the killer, but certainly his story doesn’t stack up at all. I have a feeling that a relatively straightforward “eyes and ears” mission turned into something far more sinister and deadly that took him by surprise. His story appears “scripted” so why oh why did his British handlers not make it compatible with the French one. After all they had plenty of time to prepare. My guess this was a mission by a third party with the co-operation of the French to stop sensitive technical information getting to you know who. There’s a fair chance that SAH was acting for British intelligence or at least monitored by them. Britain miffed they were left out the loop and privately seething, but can’t go public without spilling the beans and big bust-up with France and others for obvious reasons.
New to me from the le Monde article;
– Fragments of the gun found on the ground at the murder scene
– SM was dragged by the car or run over by the car
– German intelligence have chipped-in with something about the oil for food program and Saddam’s missing millions (Truly bizarre!)
@ Tim V – so many of these leaks seem to be “authorised leaks” – a neat way for the authorities to avoid any difficult questions. I would say we should complain more to the MSM about the leaks but apparently we’re lucky to be even getting this info from an ongoing French investigation. In recent weeks the balistics report, autopsies and first detailed statements from Zainab all deserved more than partial “leaks”.
@Bluebird: Interesting about the concept of hafnium fuel and gamma ray bursts. Those little cubesats are being sent up into terrestrial gamma flashes: is this our connection between SSTL, Saad al-Hilli and Sylvain Mollier?
@Sherlock et al
Re the LeMonde article.
This is patent nonsense. Fragments of the gun found…
And now, unphotographed still, we discover that a top of the range bicycle belonging to Mollier was found at the location.
This stretches credibility to the limit, 7 weeks later, to announces it. Does anybody understand the advice of the “father-in-law” not to have ridden there (assuming on such a bike??) – hardly suitable for such a journey is my gloss on the bing/google translation. Which father-in-law??? The owner of the Pharmacy?
Thierry Schutz???
http://www.pharmaciengiphar.com/minisite/schutz/
{[email protected]}
Guess what – Thierry b.1951 of LA SAPAUDIA [a sports and cycling club in Albertville,{http://www.cityvox.fr/restaurants_annecy/la-sapaudia_77360/Profil-Lieu}] is another fitness fanatic…cross country skiing
50KM Transjurassienne, 2012:
http://www.trimacon.org/Epreuves/2012/120212020.pdf
283. 5573 Schutz Thierry SAPAUDIA 5:15.07,51
(winner in 2.44.19 , 364 men in race.
I guess then, this might be Mollier’s club.
See this race
{http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjhyu4_albertville-monaco-la-sapaudia-monoikos-2011_sport} –
470km to Monaco in 24 hours, 150 riders! Notice the AREVA logo on the jerseys, Mollier’s employer.
Claire Schutz belonged to the Ski Club Belle Etoile in Albertville, 1990-2002.
More cycling club video from Albertville here – SAPAUDIA 2011
{http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xie5q8_la-sapaudia-2011-l-entrainement-du-23-avril-2011_sport}
Is Mollier here?? I think some of them must know him if he really is a rider of an EUR5000 bicycle.
Good pictures of the Monaco start in 2011 in the Rue Gambetta, Albertville, 2011 here: {http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkxcxg_sapaudia-2011_sport}o Certainly Claire and Thierry Schutz assisted medically handcyclist Thomas Papay on his Lost in the Andes tricycle ride according to his blog.
@Bluebird: See Felix’s old link to pharmacister Farwa. Her supervising professors both worked in the area of polymerization.
@NR: Women’s and girls’ lingerie was Colonel Russell Williams’ attire of choice. He wore it under his air force uniforms. It didn’t stop him from becoming base commander (WMD response unit and special ops at that base). the wearing of women’s clothing by men, on its own, did not seem to affect career status in this case. The B&Es, murders and sexual assaults were a problem.
And who was commanding officer at Camp Mirage in the UAE back in 2005/2006? None other than Russell Williams.
So very many connections, as you say.
@ Q off topic but you got me curious to read more about Russell Williams, so I’ve just read “Camouflaged Killer”
What a chilling story.
Also don’t answer this if you don’t want to, but I once knew a “Q”
from Canada who was a great researcher in the JBR case.
Wondered if it was you that I used to chat with.
Mockford warning bells….
focus now on a handbag theft (requiring,of course,variously 2, 3 or 4 bullets to the one who didn’t have a handbag…)
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Crime/article1156597.ece
AT A 17th wedding anniversary celebration over dinner in an Italian restaurant in Brussels two weeks ago, Nicholas Mockford, a British oil company manager, told his wife, Mary: “We will never leave each other.” [strange thing to say, but no matter..]
Investigators, relatives and witnesses told The Sunday Times that the account Mary, 55, from Brussels, had given them points to a mugging gone wrong, with the attackers after her handbag and the couple’s silver Lexus 4×4.
Mary has no doubts about the motive for her husband’s death…
This contradicts the Telegraph:
but some relatives remained sceptical and said they thought he had been murdered in a “professional hit”.
Depends on the relative, I guess. Oh, the Telegraph says the bag was apparently snatched. (so no reason to shoot anybody)
{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/9636899/British-ExxonMobil-executive-shot-protecting-wife-after-violent-mugging.html}
However, even this is contradicted by the BBC, which says the alleged robbers only apparetly tried to snatch the bag (and were by implication unsuccessful
{http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20101979}
Mmmmm – I am going off the business espionage angle rapidly towards a family solution….
More warning bells in the Telegraph:
Another friend of Mrs Mockford’s who has spoken to her about the incident said: “The two men tried to grab her handbag, asking for money and the couple’s car.”
Fragments of the gun breaking off seems unlikely – Luger experts pile in please
If true, you got to think it was deliberate.
Maybe as he beat the girl’s head with the gun?
Could she have put up a fight as they shot at her dad?
The Mockford assassination is just a sufficiently different MO from the al-Hilli killings to keep people guessing about its real motive – what disinformers on the web immediately pick up, and people who really don’t want to know how bad the world has become desperately grab at.
Here, instead of killing the innocent wife, she is just slapped around, and there is all kinds of talk about stealing a hand bag and the Lexus, though nothing is apparently taken.
Reminds me of the Palme assassination where the British intelligence officer on leave to make the sure hit on the statsminister also fired a shot which grazed his wife – what the Swedes took for evidence that he wanted to kill them both, and was, consequently, seen as some kind of love spat though no further shots were fired at her.
These killings over alleged Iranian spying will continue until the police and counterterrorists get focused, and take action against their organizers.
This dart missed the target:
ww.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319764/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/nasa-keeps-mum-space-robots-failure/#.UIzd-8xnJ8Q
“Speaking on condition of anonymity, sources have told MSNBC.com that the case may have sparked a criminal investigation. However, when NASA representatives were asked to comment on such reports, they said they were forbidden to respond to any requests for clarification, confirmation or denial.”
http://www.spacenews.com/archive/archive06/Dart_052206.html
“Croomes led a 4.5-month, $1 million investigation into the mishap, though NASA has said the official 70-page report will not be released publicly because it contains sensitive material protected by International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR).”
@Ruby: No, sorry. Not the same Q.
As for Williams, it intrigues me that he worked in electronic warfare and flew coastal patrol missions.
So many of the events of 2010 seem to be strange: Russell Williams, Gareth Williams, Lachlan Cranswick, etc.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9638566/Claims-emerge-Alps-murder-victim-may-have-had-access-to-part-of-Saddam-Husseins-fortune.html
Ho ho ho ….yes Ricki we are getting closer to the money !
They say the money was ‘given’ I reckon it could well have been taken , Kadhim fell out with the regime so he may have thought it was his due.
On the other hand,Saddam was known to have scattered money to safe places around the world & maybe this account opened before Kadhim fell foul of the regime ?
IF that is the case one can imagine how the brothers would squabble about it, one wants it the other dare not touch it …….. or because it was stolen know it’s more than their lives are worth to touch it.
Likewise I read somewhere recently that Maliki & co had been trying to regain monnies they know about outside Iraq, did they recruit Mr X … with all his contacts in the banking world,he owns several banks, to track it down ?
There must be gold bullion too …. somewhere.
I think they should be looking at a certain Mr X, how did he set himself up so lavishly the minute he arrived in the UK, one year after Kadhim….especially as he was Saddams man ?
[ all denied of course]
Sorry I forgot the Mail link in my excitement !
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2224127/Saddam-Hussein-gave-840-000-fortune-family-British-father-murdered-Alps-massacre.html
Morning all,
Ricki good to see you back
@ Katie -taken from Ricki’s Telegraph article:-
But the German agents have now told their French anti-terrorist counterparts that cash deposited in an Al-Hilli account in Geneva originally came from Saddam.
Kadhim, a former factory owner, left Baghdad in the late 1970s with his wife, Fasiha, and two boys, after allegedly falling foul of Saddam’s Ba’ath Party.
The family settled in Pimlico, central London, with any accounts containing money given to Kadhim by Saddam allegedly frozen after Kadhim was struck off a “list of beneficiaries”, according to the new German intelligence.
***
But the clear implication is that Kadhim may not have fallen out with Saddam at all ***
, and was in fact being used to get money out of Iraq on behalf of the dictator, who was always making plans in case he was overthrown.
Saddam was executed in December 2006, shortly after it was revealed that he withdraw around £620 million from the Iraqi central bank in 2003 and began hiding it around the world.
The assets would have been added to millions already deposited in accounts in other countries – mainly through Iraqis who had moved abroad.
Saddam is known to have concentrated particularly large amounts in Switzerland and France, where he had at least two homes and moored a £17million yacht.
Morning Straw, what a joy it is to have something fresh to work on !
I don’t believe Kadhim was a ‘beneficiary’, yes he could have agreed … [would he have any choice ?] to allow an account to be opened in his name, were all members of the Baath party used like this ?
Kadhim left behind businesses so I cannot see he was in favour at that time. Once he left,after the account was opened the account was frozen ?
At least we know why Saad would have gone to the bank.
We need to know the opening date of the account, if it was after the family arrived in the UK yes he could have been assisting Saddam, untill then……
Katie, was it you who first raised Saddam’s missing millions on here, or Bluebird? Kudos to whoever of you it was anyway. I wonder if the Germans have been snooping on here recently 🙂
I speculated earlier as to whether something on these lines was the reson why Saad was worried he might lose the house and why he was trying to do an £800k deal in Iraq. If he ran out of time and a deadline was passed perhaps this is what got him killed? Was Mollier involved in another deal he was trying to do to raise funds if the Iraq deal failed?
If there’s any credibility in these claims then surely Zaid was/is a target too? He would surely know what was going down over the money as well.
Seems improbable that a Shia (an a prominent one at that) should be given any money whatsoever by the iraqie dictator,Saddam, a notorious and proud Sunni. If Saddam was to give any large amount to any other iraqie for ‘safekeeping’ it would surely be to some of his own hirdsmen.
With regards to Kadhim reportedly being in the Ba’ath party (‘before he fell out with Saddam in the late 70’s’) – well, anybody wanting a comfortable life in Iraq at that time had better be in that party. a bit like Germans being in the Nazi party in the 30’s or Soviets and East Germans being in the Communist party.
And the statement says: ‘before he fell out with Saddam in the late 70’s’. So he fell out with Saddam in the late 70’s – so after that time there can be no question of Saddam trusting any money to his kind.
Hi Dopey yes it was me. When I read how much money & gold bars Saddam gave to his second wife , it was confirmed that the man ransacked the country coffers…….with the aid of our Mr X.
I believe you are right about the house too what a shock all this must have been for the boys when they found all this out, never having had to worry about money before.
So ,now the Mollier conundrum does that change knowing this ?
No, I still think Mollier was in Cesus to track the sabateur/smuggler, especially now that we know Germany IS involved…….. saying he was on leave for three years could well be to allow that person to become careless, but someone else within the company is watching……. in a lower profile ?
Maybe Kadhim was doing what Saddam was doing, but on an obviously much smaller scale ie pilfering money out of Iraq before he fled.
Then, upon his death, those in the know/involved wanted the money back…and at its current, not original, value.
We only have German intelligence (sic) (a contradiction in terms), their word of it. And everybody knows how they cosy up to the Israelis, even on their own account, and without being told by their masters. Because after the socalled ‘holocaust’ Israel just have to wave their little finger idf their is anything they wish the Germans to do.
But in this instance the Germans clearly acted on their own, because you can say a lot about Israelis — and God knows a lot has been said over the years — but they aint that stupid as to propose that a prominent Shia in exile (from Saddam DOH! would be trusted for safekeeping Saddams money DOH!
Could those with gun knowledge confirm or dispute this police leak of ‘fragments of the gun’ being found ?
I absolutely cannot believe the police searched thoroughly enough to find such fragments even if it’s true,what are they,bits of plastic,wood,metal, can a gun not be dropped without falling apart ?
More like bits from someone’s camping/picnic gear I’d say !
A fragment could conceivably fall of a gun if it was hit by a great force, like a bullet. I just mention this as a matter of fact.
Kenneth they’re saying he dropped it, maybe when re-loading ?
It is also such an old weapon which all of a sudden is being tasked with repeated on-and-off firing (and all in 30 seconds), which would have caused great stress on the metal and its inner workings. Yes it was good Swiss quality, but nevertheless a 80 year old mechanism, which all of a sudden had to be literally fired up.