The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
You may well be right Mochyn69
30 Oct, 2012 – 2:51 pm. I don’t think “Didierjean” has ever been “shown” to or interviewed by, the press except that Parisien interview has he? Being on the scene taking photographs, especially if they are early ones is bit of a coincidence isn’t it? Apparently before the specialist teams arrived, the local gendarme or rescue people took copious amounts of video and photos of the scene as they found it. Why don’t the French give a full and frank description of the scene. It would save all this supposition.
Philippe Desmazes (careful with the spelling- this is correct)
https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1121&bih=561&q=%22PHILIPPE+DESMAZES%22+SEPT+5&oq=%22PHILIPPE+DESMAZES%22+SEPT+5&gs_l=img.12…18576.33937.0.36681.26.19.0.7.0.0.124.1301.18j1.19.0…0.0…1ac.1.I5yaZlpx_oM#q=%22PHILIPPE+DESMAZES%22+SEPT+5&num=10&hl=en&sa=X&ei=neuPUL3BNKKe0QWZjoHoCw&ved=0CB0QpwUoAw&source=lnt&tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min%3A9%2F4%2F2012%2Ccd_max%3A9%2F5%2F2012&tbm=isch&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=1516f05be1a4a250&bpcl=36601534&biw=1121&bih=561
See D.Icke for the Philippe Desmazes photo of a policeman using mobile by the 3km sign on 5/9/12 article written the same day.
He was sure on the scene pdq
CORRECTION: I agree NR
30 Oct, 2012 – 10:53 am their behaviour is odd after the event as well as before. We should always remember he is a mature, highly trained pilot and instructor well drilled in dealing with accidents, incidents and first aid. In the interview he tends to down play this. Would such a person TWICE leave a wounded and unconscious child of seven in a location of potential DANGER from a mad gunman? After all incident training puts this as first and most important. In the absence of medical assistance would it not have been likely to carry the little girl back towards the Didierjean’s car? Then in view of what he had just seen, any intention of just going home by car or bike is quite unbelievable. What average person would consider leaving before speaking to the police, let alone a highly trained officer in the RAF?
O/T Sandy: Power Surge explosions in NYC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20135390
Oh yeah, where have we heard that one before?
Answer for those of you who may not be conversant with the narrative – the 7/7 bombings in London.
This blog is under intelligence supervision
I posted contents of two immigration documents and other addresses yesterday. The posts are still here. However, 4 of those documents have totally disappeared from ancestry only a few hours after I mentioned them here on this blog.
The whole boat of passengers that arrived in the USA on August 24th 1938 has disappeared from ancestry.com. Tht ship doesn’t exist any more. It has become a ghost ship, the Flying Dutchman.
Therefore I am sure that somebody is here who is following our conversation on this blog, otherwise such important documents would not get removed from ancestry within hours only.
The other document that was removed is his New York address at the Iraqi embassy at the United Nations in the NYC telephone book that I have mentioned yesterday.
Particularly the removal of the 1938 document is a hot thing. Other (later) immigration documents of Hashim al Hilli are still available, but that hot 1938 document that makes a link to Hassan Ibrahim (apparently Saddam’s stepfather) who was with him on that boat and also stamped exempt as a “diplomat” is no longer there.
at Ferret
30 Oct, 2012 – 3:07 pm as the firearms expert Ferret we know bullets were fired into the driver’s side front and back windows (well we assume into the back as the photo doesn’t show). If casings were located roughly adjacent to the offside rear wheel as several graphics suggest, doesn’t this positively rule out the Luger which ejects up and to the RIGHT? (i.e. the front off-side quarter of the car NOT rear?)
Bluebird, how often do I need tell you. As a professional, you ALWAYS as a matter of course save everything. You RECORD everything you do on the web. TOU SAVE.
That’s what you do. Thats the only way that we afterwards can document what happened, so THATS WHAT YOU DO. ITS WRITTEN IN YOUR NAME: “BLUEBIRD”. DOESN’T IT KIND OF SAY IT ALL? DON’T MESS WITH BLUEBIRD CAUSE HE SAVES ALL AND DOCUMENTS ALL.
Confirmation eh? I hope you took a copy before it disappeared Bluebird
30 Oct, 2012 – 3:15 pm. 😉
Leila Lamnaoeur was the French journalist on a Sky video on the 5th Sept using Philippe D’s photo
-could someone with better French than me please translate her twitter page:-
https://twitter.com/leilalamnaouer
A couple of videos (Sky/BBC) on a loop here:=
http://article.wn.com/view/2012/09/05/Three_Shot_Dead_In_British_BMW_In_France/
This report was made before Zeena was even known about and Zainab (with at least 3 bullet wounds) is between life and death.
The ‘cycliste’ discovered the bodies around 4 in the afternoon.
@TimV
as the firearms expert Ferret we know bullets were fired into the driver’s side front and back windows (well we assume into the back as the photo doesn’t show). If casings were located roughly adjacent to the offside rear wheel as several graphics suggest, doesn’t this positively rule out the Luger which ejects up and to the RIGHT? (i.e. the front off-side quarter of the car NOT rear?)
Firstly thanks, but I’m no firearms expert – just an armchair researcher.
🙂
Secondly re the casings by the driver’s side rear wheel, it’s a good question. (The Uzi also ejects to the right, by the way.)
I don’t really know but unless the cartridge cases bounced it would seem hard to explain – unless the shooter(s) were behind the car?
Mind you, one has to be careful before jumping to conclusions:
Findings are now firm: Ejected shell casings can’t reliably tell much about a shooter’s location
@Felix
I’m pretty much with you about the extraction scenario. It would explain bodies being too disfigured to be identified except by DNA, for example, and the only way they could have been so disfigured is if they’d been shot from behind the head.
Reason being that with eg 9mm para the entry hole is small and the exit hole is big. See eg the first first minute of {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0oOVwcMBag}.
The 7.65mm Parabellum has around 20% less power than its big brother the 9mm Parabellum but it has a very similar muzzle velocity. (7.65mm goes at the same speed, but has less weight in the bullet.)
Obviously a human head is not a watermelon, and an FMJ 7.65mm Para is not an FMJ 9mm Para so this isn’t conclusive, but it is indicative.
@Bluebird –
Did you see the reference in the book (not cached, only in index)”Frank Lloyd Wright in New York”?
http://holliekeith.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Frank-Lloyd-Wright-in-New-York.pdf
Seems like HAH was discussing designs for Baghdad with the great architect. Looks like there’s a photo of him in the book, from the index. It’s not clear what that book is titled.
@NR
yes, indeed, where was BM going when he rode down the hill with the emergency vehicles allegedly coming back up the hill past him? To his handlers? He says he gave a 6 hour interview with the police afterwards. It is frankly unbelieveable that the only witness to such alleged carnage just cycles off, allegedly, not hailing or meeting the emergency services or even staying nearby. Did he just, sort of, ride on over to an unstated police station and report something very very nasty.
“Ah,we’ve been expecting you, you’re that ex-RAF man who told a French hiker to call us at 3.48 ….”
I have a question for you all :
Why on Leila Lamnaouer’s Twitter page is there an entry dated 5th September @ 10.12 am titled 4 people shot dead near Annecy with a photo of 2 policeman blocking the road by the sign?
https://twitter.com/leilalamnaouer
This is 6 hours before the 4 pm shootings?? maybe less 1 hour for CET???
Tim……. ‘shots to the head through the window’. I believe the shots were in the forehead ?
This would mean that AH had to be looking straight at the killer whilst trying to reverse the car, also I don’t know about speed of delivery but, to get two shots accurately into the centre of the head under such circumstances stretched belief somewhat.
Or were the shots to the side of the head ?
What’s more the killer would have to be that lucky three times over for all adults.
Katie,
Can you explain a Twitter post at 10.12am on Sept 5th about 4 people shot dead near Annecy with a photo?
Certain parts of the US are 6 hours behind aren’t they Straw , so was this seen on an American Twitter thread ?
For those who don’t know how to save a page rather than a link, paste exactly this at the end of the URL:
“?com_num=500”
Then save.
@Straw
I think those are screenshots which get linked to the Sky article of the 5th.
For certain Philippe Desmazes was on the scene the next day to show the covered BMW car coming down the lane:
http://www.lejsl.com/faits-divers/2012/09/07/haute-savoie-drame-les-questions-en-suspens-dans-la-tuerie-de-chevaline
This must be the evening of the 6th September, from the lights on the vehicles.
The earliest photo was taken by Leila Lamnaouer on her phone, I think , which she uploaded upto Twitter, and was then used by the Telegraph etc.
{https://twitter.com/leilalamnaouer/status/243396125980237824/photo/1} 10:12 AM – 5 Sep 12 [I think we add 9 hours]
Which leads me back to this early Telegraph article by Henry Samuel, 9.10pm 5 Sept, which now seems completely ridiculous from what we now know!
{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9524060/France-shooting-organised-gangs-prey-on-drivers-travelling-abroad.html}
AFP/Getty provided these images to the Telegraph on the 5th, but no individual photographer is named:
{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9523586/France-shooting-Four-dead-after-gun-attack-on-British-car-in-French-Alps-near-Grenoble.html}
BtW is anybody familiar with French poliice vehicles:
This one is registered 2072 0654,also seen in other photos.
{http://www.bz-berlin.de/aktuell/welt/familien-fehde-grund-fuer-alpenmorde-article1537757-image6.html}
whereas the first one on the scene has a more normal sequence:AC 493 LK plus departement. these DAPD photos are from the 5th I think for Bild Zeitung. WHo’s the woman in white pants,image 5??
There’s also a van shown, 2071 1956 by AP at Wort, {http://www.wort.lu/en/view/police-probing-family-dispute-in-alps-killing-5049a964e4b06b3bb00edc3c}
Finally, This AP photo from the 5th
{http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/06/french-police-investigate-gruesome-murder-in-the-alps.html}
is credited to Alexis Moro
{https://www.google.com/search?q=%22leila%20lamnouer%20%22%20twitter&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=WwyQUMrCIMrI0QW874HADg&biw=1024&bih=626&sei=ZgyQUNa1BoiO0AWn1ICgDA#um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=alexis+moro+chevaline&oq=alexis+moro+chevaline&gs_l=img.12…159369.163848.0.165591.36.20.0.2.2.4.1182.5854.3j5j4j2j1j1j0j2.18.0…0.0…1c.1.6gzShJL2tWY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=d6f90df68f1c6629&bpcl=36601534&biw=1024&bih=626}
Leila Lamnaouer(LL) is a French journalist who announced the deaths of 4 & posted a photo of a Police road block block and added info about Zainab
Darren McCaffrey(DM) from Sky News in London asked to Direct Message her at 10.31 am
DM Shoot by weapon? @ 10.35am
LL yes 4 victims in a break car from England 2 men and 2 women a little girl 6-7 years old between life and death @ 10.36am
DM then asked to phone LL @ 10.39am
Straw, yes I see what you mean………I give up on all these timings, none of them tally.
@Straw
At present, tweets I see are timed 7 hours behind GMT.
felix
thanks for the link. this is clearly him. however, I won’t buy that book for that reason.
sorensen,
of course I printed that document scan.
I was just mentioning that some unknown eyes are reading here in this blog. I don’t believe that this was just an accident “database error” (“randomly self destroyable database” – don’t think so) .
@Felix
30 Oct, 2012 – 3:56 pm
They probably meet 57-58. FLW died 1959
“The Plan for Greater Baghdad was a project done by American architect Frank Lloyd Wright for a cultural center, opera house, and university on the outskirts of Baghdad, Iraq, in 1957-58. The most thoroughly developed aspects of the plan were the opera house, which would have been built on an island in the middle of the Tigris together with museums and a towering gilded statue of Harun al-Rashid, and the university. Due to the 1958 collapse of the Hashemite monarchy, development of the project stopped, and it was never built.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_for_Greater_Baghdad
What is known re Hashims acticity after 1971?
@Everyone
Please do not follow Katie’s advice about saving pages.
Unless of course you want your IP address exposed as someone who has been reading here and followed her advice.
😀
Reason?
Adding “?com_num=500” to a URL won’t do anything whatsoever in terms of saving the page. Not one thing.
But it will enable a webmaster (or secret service) to search through the logs of a web site you have visited and find this tag, and then use it to identify you as someone who has seen it recommended here, and only here.
To test me out, try googling for “com_num=500”.
Nothing.
See what I mean?
It’s a trap people. Be warned.
To save a web page, all you have to do is choose “File | Save As” from the menu in IE, or “Save page as” in Chrome, or “File | Save page as” in Firefox. DO NOT ADD ANYTHING WEIRD TO THE URL
@Katie
Tim……. ‘shots to the head through the window’. I believe the shots were in the forehead ?
Where did you see any reports of the Al Hilli’s being shot in the forehead?
So far as I’m aware the press have never reported that.
@ Ferrer
30 Oct, 2012 – 6:51 pm
lol thanks Ferret. I almost wrote that down for future use.
Ferret, once again you argue. I have used, “?com_num=500” for years & it works perfectly. I do of course have a Mac, maybe that’s why I have no problems with it.
@Bluebird
That’s quite eyebrow-raising about the documents on ancestry.com disappearing so quickly after you posted your results here.
It’s the strongest direct confirmation yet of spooky activity here.
There have been times before when the media has invented (sorry, reported) some fact(s) to answer some inconsistency we’ve pointed out here, but that wasn’t really so conclusive.
Plus there has been all the disinformation, thread sliding, and so on etc which has been going on here, which is quite mad really. And the 1000s and 1000s of posts… by far and away the longest thread on CM’s site.
So… who runs ancestry.com? Is it a UK site? Or a US one? If it’s US then they could easily and quickly make the change under the Homeland Security Act. Not so sure about the UK. Maybe some digging there might turn up some interesting connections?
Ferret, once again you argue. I have used, “?com_num=500″ for years & it works perfectly. I do of course have a Mac, maybe that’s why I have no problems with it.
Yep, argumentative ol’ Ferret, that’s me.
😀
I’m not saying it’d give you any *problems*, I’m saying it could get you tracked and won’t help at all with saving the page.
This applies whether you are using Mac, Windows, Linux, or Android.
Think about it: if it’s such a handy htip, why doesn’t google have anything about it? There’s not one single dicky bird. Not even one.
So… Where did you get it from?
DMC International Imaging (Saad’s trip to France on December 16, 2011) must be worth a bundle, in light of recent world events. It’s not just about big storms and earthquakes. It can show phytoplankton blooms (diatoms).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_Monitoring_Constellation
http://www.bis.gov.uk/ukspaceagency/what-we-do/earth-observation/how-we-support-earth-observation/national
Second link has tracking.
Well, we were looking for red things and that’s the color of iron ore being used to “fertilize” the ocean, producing those colorful blooms. Not relevant to this story, but here’s the red: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/companies/RussGeorge/RussGeorge.shtml