The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@ ferret
An annual bill of £20,000 plus (plus 3& interest) for ten years is still a millstone around someone’s neck Ferret.
Dopey
30 Oct, 2012 – 9:25 pm
And it was Saad who stopped the will – not Zaid.
“Caveat 58692 essentially halts his brother Zaid’s claim over half of their father Kadhem’s fortune until unknown issues are resolved.”
( The Sun )
@Dopey
Ancestry.com is an American company, HQ in Utah.
So that means it’s most likely to be CIA removing the pages, a couple of hours after Bluebird posts his results here…
Very interesting…
@Straw
The young girl smiled and put her arms out to the officers but has been unable to say anything about what happened.
Thanks for that… it does seem really odd.
@NR
Good point about firing with the gun horizontal – could send shell cartridges to the left.
The first few minutes of the youtube video shows FMJ ammunition which would easily pierce glass, and shows a large exit wound on the melon. FMJ = “Full Metal Jacket” ie military ammo, encased in a hard metal shell. This is not “hollow point”, which is something entirely different. (Not sure if you misunderstood but just in case.)
@TimV
OK thanks for putting that report in context, but NR does repeat a good point about the gun possibly being used horizontally. Personally I think it’s much more interesting that the bodies were initially described as being unrecognisable… and significant that there are 25 shells, which could indicate a 25-round magazine.
Reminds me, does anyone know if the prosecutor has actually said it is a 7.65mm Luger *gun* that was used? (If he’s specified any weapon at all?)
Or is it possible that all he’s said it was 7.65mm Luger *ammunition*?
@Katie
Like I said, as you don’t seem to have any rational explanation for your little URL tracking bug (other than abusing me) there is only one possible conclusion about who you really are and what you are really doing here.
Again
We have Saad going to Iraq to try to do an £800,000 deal.
The Claygate home is worth £800,000.
The Swiss account is circa £800,000.
£800,000 certainly seems to be a magic number doesn’t it?
@Thomas
“Caveat 58692 essentially halts his brother Zaid’s claim over half of their father Kadhem’s fortune until unknown issues are resolved.”
( The Sun )
Glad you mentioned that, I saw it too and thought I’d eventually see it repeated here.
🙂
Unfortunately the Sun has got it’s facts wrong. (They are not known for getting their fact right.) Or rather, they are making it sound like something it’s not.
What it really means is that the person taking out the caveat will get notified if probate is granted, and will get 8 days to take legal action to oppose the probate, otherwise the caveat has no further effect. And that’s it.
Probate Caveat. ~ A probate caveat is a written notice to the Probate Registry, the intention of which is to prevent a grant of probate from being issued to a third party without warning being transmitted to the person who filed the notice and thereby entered the caveat. The person who benefits from the probate caveat is known as a caveator and they must, within 8 days of receiving notice of a third parties intentions to obtain a grant of probate in their favour, take legal action otherwise the caveat ceases to have effect.
http://www.contestedprobate.co.uk/caveats.html
Regarding house
Had we thought about the possibility that the payment for their claygate house and for zaids house and the payment for the spanish apartment was supposingly taken from the approx. 2 millions by kadhim?
And today there are just 800k left. And the owner of the account wanted the money back? They did not have the money and perhaps started to blackmail the account owner for not losing their house or else trying to make quick money with some dangerous activities? I dont know but we should not sort out this activity.
@Dopey
An annual bill of £20,000 plus (plus 3& interest) for ten years is still a millstone around someone’s neck Ferret.
Not sure what you’re getting at here… if Saad and Zaid were going to inherit half of the swiss account (£400k each) why would this be a problem?
£800,000 certainly seems to be a magic number doesn’t it?
It certainly does!
😀
Not everyone in the al-Hilli family had a bad relationship with the regime in Iraq.
The son of Hashim, Ali Hashim Al-Hilli, worked for Iraqi Airline 77-92.
“Ali was born in Baghdad, finished secondary education at Baghdad College. Travelled to the UK in 1970 to finish high school and study Aeronautical Engineering. Graduated from Britains Air University in 1977.
Joined Iraqi Airways as an Aircraft Engineer & later held the positions of Fleet Manager, Technical Control Manager & Customer service manager. Was stationed at London for one year as Technical representative for Iraqi airways. While in Iraqi Airways, Ali Has attended numerous technical courses to the United States, United Kingdom & Germany.
Migrated to Australia in 1992 & worked as a Senior Aircraft Engineer at Aerospace Technologies of Australia in Victoria till 1996. Worked in Malaysian Airlines – Kuala Lumpur as an Aircraft Engineer Consultant till 1998.
—
Ali has strong ties to his beloved country of birth Iraq & has good ties with the local Iraqi community and Australia.”
http://www.aiforum.org.au/members.php?member=Mr%20Ali%20Hashim%20Al-Hilli
So the sister Balsam was in exile – while the brother Ali was working for Iraqi Airlines. A little bit contradictory.
Bluebird.
Is there any way we could find out when the Swiss account was opened or when the money was deposited ?
@ bluebird
Yes. I touched on this as a possibility on one of the threads.
@ ferret
It wouldn’t be a problem. But why pay in installments when interest is payable if they had the cash to pay it in one lump sum? There are examples on the HMRC site that show the interest can amount to a third of the capital amount, depending on interest rates and if the odd payment is late. (thieving gits, its shocking)
Probate (unless we’re talking about a very high value complex estate – ie think Michael Jackson) doesn’t take a year or more. The caveat has obviously halted probate.
@ katie
The account was opened I think in 1984…and hardly touched.
Ref. Straw44berry
30 Oct, 2012 – 5:00 pm – Sorry Straw I can’t find it. Can you possibly copy and post b4 it’s wiped. Shades of JFK eh? And not the only ones.
A grant of probate cannot be made until any caveat is removed.
(caveats only last six months but can be reapplied for)
http://www.stephensons.co.uk/site/individuals/contesting_wills_probate/caveats_warnings/
Thanks again,Dopey, that was a year of an election in Iraq.
Parliamentary elections were held in Iraq on 20 October 1984.[1] The election was contested by 782 candidates,[2] and saw the Ba’ath Party win 183 of the 250 seats.
May or may not be relevant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_parliamentary_election,_1984
I agree it’s strange Katie
30 Oct, 2012 – 5:07 pm. Trouble is we are never sure how much we can rely on the reports in news outlets. Only yesterday I read three conflicting times for WBM’s arrival from the SAME official source (4pm; 3.45; 3.35)!!!! Not to mention the rediculous statement that Mollier passed WBM “outside Chevaline” yet WBM arrives at the scene “four minutes later”. Is the confusing output INTENTIONAL so nothing is reliable? I once came across this tactic and it seemed to work. (p.s. the arithmetic is getting harder)
Oh I meant to say, if all the “double taps” were centre of forehead and IF the doors were locked throughout, the only explanation the victim looking straight at the killer. This I imagine is feasible even if SAH was reversing. It’s hardly a MoT driving test after all is it?
Katie
No way to find out details about a swiss bank account. Not even police could do that. However, the germans received (illegally) the HSBC bank data. Therefore german intelligence obviously knows about the owner of that account and that it belongs to saddam. HSBC is a private bank in geneve. Likely that is the bank therefore where the al hillis have their account. 1+1=2
Thomas
The al hillis always had strong ties to iraq and into the government. They knew too much about saddam and the other families in iraq. They knew too much about algeria and too much about iran and palestine. They knew too much about the usa and israel and they knew too much about iraqi billionairs and banks. They knew too much about assad and even al saud. They knew too much about CIA and alQaida. They knew too much about Russia and even MI6. You could not kill them because their knowledge did protect them and their friends. What did ayed allawi once say? “I worked for 15 secret services”. Hashim at least for 4.
Something unforseen happened in september that was not planned and inconvenient for the intelligence services. Hashim al Hilli was a diplomat like Kissinger, Palme, Genscher or Annan. No more and no less. Dangerous for Saddam but Untouchable due to his international friendships and dangerous knowledge of the past.
Tim V -U just caught me before bed
Scroll down(a long way-she posts a lot) until 5th Sept and click extend to see the timings of posts until u get 10.12 am and u can see the photo too
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Four people shot dead in # horse near Annecy. More http://www. lessorsavoyard.fr pic.twitter.com/ASeV7ar2
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Hi Tim, so maybe the doors were not locked at all, someone just embellished what the police said with, not being able to open the doors………in case the glass shattered……… someone took it that they were in fact locked.
Re-double tap to forehead, he may get lucky once but not thrice……he’d have to shoot through shattered glass for at least one.
A little sidebar about those remote sensing satellites and what they do: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/17/canada-geoengineering-pacific
Were there any important assassinations in 1983/84 in europe or any terror attacks that were worth 1-2 million dollars into a swiss bank account.?
@Straw
I can’t find any other links to Zeena smiling. But it led me to an interesting take on the Claygate circus from a French journalist, Juliette Demey Sept 16 2012
http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Faits-divers/Actualite/chTuerie-de-Chevaline-je-n-ai-vu-qu-un-seul-bad-guy-556212
She says Kevin (B) Hurley, the chatty ex-Scotland Yard detective lives in Claygate! I never realised that! He gives a PO Box as his address for the recent election for Surrey police and Crime commissioner!
Zero Tolerance Policing, PO Box 479, Esher, KT10 1EN
Hurley appears in this YouTube video of the Al-Hilli house, pontificating from 0.26 to 0.45
{http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssb1yAE6_hw}
I wonder what he knew about the inhabitants of 26 Oaken Lane prior to Sept 5? Anders7777 reposted my original comment at Icke where I noted that Hurley also got onto SkyTV courtesy of Martin Brunt: Former top Scotland Yard detective Kevin Hurley investigated the murder of an Iraqi dissident in Notting Hill in 1986.
He told me: “The victim died from Thallium poisoning, a substance used to kill rats. He met a couple of Iraqis – Saddam’s boys – who took him to a restaurant and then sprinkled the powder into his meal when he went to the toilet.”
Former Iraqi prime minister Ayad Allawisurvived an axe attack at his home in Kingston a dozen years ago.
“Iraqis have long memories and are not averse to settling scores abroad,” said Mr Hurley, who helped set up and train Iraq’s new police force. !!
From what we now know, I think that is much more significant.
For Ferret:
His company: Inspirational Security Solutions Ltd, Kevin Hurley sole director, based not in Glebelands No.37, Claygate, [the less posh end of Claygate, but not too far from Mr Stedman] but “The Bristol Office 2 Southfield Road Westbury-on-Trim, Bristol BS9 3BH” [Accountants and solicitors here plus stacks of companies]
{http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/915801145}
Also another company of his – JK Chinese Healthcare Ltd registered at the other entrance to The Bristol office, at 5 High Street, Westbury-on-Trim.
Mr K. Hurley appointed 18 Jun 2012
Ms J. Li appointed 18 Jun 2012 (a Chinese national)
Ah,this would seem to be Ms Jing Li
JK Chinese Healthcare, 30 The Parade, Claygate, Esher, Surrey KT10 0NU
{http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/916995925}
Linkedin:
{http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/kevin-hurley/2b/756/35}
I would find it astonishing if Mr H wasn’t acquainted with the history of the Hillis going back to the 70s.
So, who was the alleged Iraqi dissident murdered with Thallium in 1986? Actually it was 1988:
Among other cases, London resident Ali Abdullah Rahim Sharif was poisoned by Iraqi agents in a Kensington restaurant on 20th January 1988, dying of Thallium poisoning in a London hospital five days later. [shades of Litvinenko – I wonder what really happened??] A very little reported, pre-internet age hit.
{http://www.socialaffairsunit.org.uk/blog/archives/001344.php}
@Bluebird, is a death recorded??
The translation of Turley back to English:
They have been victims of a madman, a racist attack of disturbed criminals … As long as you do not know the motive, you will not find or killers.
“Within a four-week period between February and March 1984, the Iraqis reportedly killed 40,000 Iranians and lost 9,000 of their own men, but even this was deemed an unacceptable ratio, and in February the Iraqi command ordered the use of chemical weapons. Despite repeated Iraqi denials, between May 1981 and March 1984, Iran charged Iraq with forty uses of chemical weapons. The year 1984 closed with part of the Majnun Islands and a few pockets of Iraqi territory in Iranian hands. Casualties notwithstanding, Tehran had maintained its military posture, while Baghdad was reevaluating its overall strategy.”
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/iran-iraq.htm
“You could not kill them because their knowledge did protect them and their friends”
Then Khadim died, and…
Resd this. Particularly CIA in Iraq 1960-1979
In my strong opinion and what we know since yesterday, the CIA assat in Iraq was Hashim al Hilli, high member of the Ministry of Foreign affairs, trained in the USA from 1938-1941 together with Saddam’s stepfather Ibrahim Hassan who was a CIA asset, too.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iraq
Ferret
30 Oct, 2012 – 6:57 pm THIS SUN REPORT IS ONE BUT THERE ARE OTHERS
By HARRY HAWKINS THE SUN
Published: 06th September 2012
95
THREE victims killed in the French Alps massacre were shot execution style through the middle of the forehead – fuelling speculation they were targeted by a hired hitman.
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4523215/.html#ixzz2ApI5xfeS
Here about saddam and HSBC
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1584998/HSBC-probes-Saddam-connection.html
Here about how the HSBC data came into hands of german and french intelligence:
(5th paragraph below lagarde’s picture.
http://engineeringevil.com/2012/10/28/lagarde-list-leaked-hot-doc-publishes-2059-names-from-stolen-hsbc-list/
To confirm from the “horse’s mouth” (HA!) Ferret –
“Prosecutor Eric Maillaud today could not rule out whether or not the the attack had the hallmarks of a professional assassination.
He described the killings as “an act of extreme savagery”.
He added: “It was obvious that whoever did this wanted to kill.
“They had all been shot through the centre of the forehead.”
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4523215/.html#ixzz2ApJx6FmM“
Tim V.
And a professional is going to shoot them into their ass? Of course a professional killer is going to be sure that his victims are dead!
The french are talking BS. They should better read this blog.
@Bluebird
30 Oct, 2012 – 10:38 pm
Do you think this would fit?
”
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein:
The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984
—
The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country’s official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East.
—-
During the spring of 1984 the U.S. reconsidered policy for the sale of dual-use equipment to Iraq’s nuclear program, and its “preliminary results favor[ed] expanding such trade to include Iraqi nuclear entities”
”
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Hashim al-Hilli as a possible middleman could earn a lot, when US supplied Iraq before the relations between the two countries where official. A son with a high position at Iraqi Airline could also be helpful.
And maybe Saad al-Hilli followed a family tradition, when he meet Mollier.