The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
“Police now think the murders were the motiveless act of a “lone psychopath” who may have been a mental hospital patient.
Evidence he used a 30s Luger pistol also suggested he was not a professional assassin, police said.” Today’s Daily Mirror.
If my observations on cartridges are correct not only does it disprove the Luger but blows a hole through their whole (latest!) theory then doesn’t it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2224742/French-Alps-shooting-Police-believe-psychopath-mental-hospital-carried-Al-Hilli-killings.html
Possible speculation on the DM’s part but mention that they were all wearing seat belts?
If bullet dodging Saad dived into the car and attempted to get away, he wasn’t likely to put on his seat belt in the process surely?
@Straw – that’s a good video spot – as I see it the car park is on the left of the long straight climb just before the hairpin. Indeed, the film is taken into the sun – verifying the overhead shot showing the ascending road to the east, around the hairpin towards the clearing at the next hairpin which the BBC falsely identified as the car park.
BTW on http://www.genesreunited.co.nz/ there is no trace of a death in London in 1988 of anyone called (al) Sherif/sharif
The assassination of Al-Naif in 1979 clearly shows up though.
BTW (2) I haven’t seen this birth mentioned before (same site):
O’Reilly-Hilli Louisa West Surrey 2006, 23 years after Sean.
It doesn’t seem to square with: Zaid and Geraldine had one child, Sean O’Reilly-Hilli, 28, a plumber who lives in the Walton-on-Thames house although Genes Reunited gives two births for the latter in 1985 and 1993 so there are errors. But West Surrey covers Guildford/Godalming/Farnham/Cranleigh areas, which is a bit strange. Geraldine died in 2007 apparently, but perhaps too recent for Genes Reunited to be listed.
Hashim al-Hilli died -83, do we know of what cause?
I have said this before but perhaps you missed it. Have you noticed how the three principal sources (Maillaud; Martin; Didierjean) ALL liken the scene to a film set. Is this more than coincidental? I don’t suppose it could have been a prior agreed script to introduce an element of fiction and theatre to lessen the reality and seriousness?
@Dopey
A grant of probate cannot be made until any caveat is removed.
(caveats only last six months but can be reapplied for)
http://www.stephensons.co.uk/site/individuals/contesting_wills_probate/caveats_warnings/
Thanks for this, I didn’t realise you have to keep reapplying every 6 months to keep the caveat active.
That same link confirms that you only have 8 days from grant of probate to take legal action:
If you have applied for a caveat at the probate registry, you may at some point receive a “warning” from them. This means that someone, usually the person appointed as the executor in the Will, has discovered your caveat when they have tried to apply for the Grant. If you receive a warning, you must act very quickly, as you only have 8 days from receiving it, to respond. If you fail to respond within this period, your caveat will automatically be removed, and the executor will then be able to apply for a grant.
@Felix
His company: Inspirational Security Solutions Ltd, Kevin Hurley sole director, based not in Glebelands No.37, Claygate, [the less posh end of Claygate, but not too far from Mr Stedman] but “The Bristol Office 2 Southfield Road Westbury-on-Trim, Bristol BS9 3BH” [Accountants and solicitors here plus stacks of companies]
Thanks, very interesting… How can I find a list of companies at that address?
@TimV
“They had all been shot through the centre of the forehead.”
Thanks for that – I don’t think even the Sun would make up a direct quote from Maillaud! I stand corrected.
@ Felix
Could Louisa be Sean’s child?
Worth to be mentioned again:
“Suggesting inconsistencies in the testament of the mystery British witness, Mr Maillaud said: ‘We’ll need to listen to the British cyclist again – to check his timings. He’ll have to get back on his bike and re-do the journey.’
Horrifying details of the attack on Zainab emerged as police also revealed that those killed were ‘no ordinary tourists’.
Briefings by detectives suggested that at least one of the victims could have had links to those working in international espionage or the criminal underworld.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202149/France-shooting-No-motives-suspects-investigation-TEN-YEARS.html#ixzz2ApVLPNZd
@ ferret
“That same link confirms that you only have 8 days from grant of probate to take legal action”
No Ferret. It’s 8 days from receiving the “warning”.
If you are intending to dispute a will you file a caveat.
The “warning” occurs when someone intending to apply for probate discovers the caveat, informing you that you basically have 8 days “to put up or shut up”.
If you do nothing within 8 days, the caveat is removed and probate can commence.
If you respond then the caveat remains and probate cannot be granted until differences are settled..or, after six months, you do not renew the caveat.
@Dopey
I didn’t see a marriage, which is what you would expect for the name to be carried forward. But it’s reasonable.
@Ferret
I don’t think it’s another no 55 – but there are over 8000 in Westbury-on-Trym of which I guess 4000 are in this house..
http://www.companies-uk.co.uk/bristol/city-of-bristol/westbury-on-trym
Nothing suspicious, move along please [no, seriously, but I wonder why the ex-Scotland Yard man chose it.
I had to copy the above French link, lejdd [@10.54 pm]
À Claygate, sur un banc reconverti en bureau, Martin Brunt juge l’affaire “aussi fascinante qu’horrifiante”. Pourquoi Zainab n’était-elle pas dans la voiture? Un besoin pressant? Et “pourquoi les Français n’ont-ils pas fouillé la maison du cycliste?” Essorés par dix jours de pression, les voisins et amis des Al-Hilli ne parlent plus. Des panneaux “No press please” ont fleuri. Le dentiste Zaid Alabdi, meilleur ami du couple, ne donne plus signe ni à son cabinet de Twickenham ni au téléphone. L’”ami irakien” n’a “rien de neuf à dire”. En peignoir blanc, George, voisin des Al-Hilli, sourit, mais ce sera no. Le comptable de Saad, Julian Stadman, s’avoue “perplexe”. Jack et Marilyn Saltman, dont le jardin donne sur celui des Al-Hilli, en pleine perquisition, sont désemparés en pensant à Zainab et Zeena. La police leur ayant interdit de laisser entrer des reporters, Marilyn tremblait presque en allant cueillir trois carottes au potager. Depuis jeudi soir, Oaken Lane tente de retrouver son calme. Vendredi, un camion a vidangé les toilettes portables des enquêteurs. Signe que la surveillance devrait durer, des dizaines de rouleaux de papier hygiénique ont été livrés, ainsi que de l’eau… et du lait. “Typiquement britannique”, raille un photographe.
Brunt is wondering why the French police haven’t been searching Mollier’s house, and all the residents of Claygate seem to have been told to keep quiet by the police.
Just for the record, the leaked caveat is seen in this video, the one with Hurley.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssb1yAE6_hw
At about 0.51. Was it in the Express as implied ? I don’t see an image of it online.
at Straw44berry
30 Oct, 2012 – 8:09 pm “We had instructions not to enter the car and not to move the bodies,” Lieutenant-Colonel Benoit Vinnemann of the local gendarmerie said.
Even this statement has always puzzled me. The rescue, doctor and police arrive within about 15 mins. of the elusive “3.48” call with no identified caller, yet apparently the information was sufficient to almost immediately obtain instructions, presumably from Paris, not to enter the car. Even a Lieutenant-Colonel was insufficient rank to take charge. This required amazingly fast decision making given that it was late afternoon. Almost as if the wheels were already well oiled? Of course this intervention from the top precluded any examination of the three mortally wounded to confirm their status or the discovery of little Zeena for a further EIGHT hours.
At Ferret
30 Oct, 2012 – 8:44 pm “Yes, the local police would be desperate to clear their names and make sure everyone knew they were doing their job properly. Just like the Dallas police in 1963.
Having the local police to leave the car alone for 8 hours leaves the field wide open for explanations and theories about what (or who) was really in the car. If the secret services took control of the crime scene, anything is possible…”
I concur (apologies to …)
The man who is key ….vital new evidence…
Sounds promising doesn’t it? Unfortunately not, though it does include “that” photo of Mollier
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225436/The-man-whos-key-Alps-massacre-Mail-investigation-uncovers-vital-new-evidence-execution-British-family-thats-baffling-police.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Even, apart from Zena, it seems extremely odd to leave the three dead bodies in the car for 8 hours.
New article in DM:
“But could his professional life hold the key? Mr Mollier was a manager at the Cezus factory near Ugine, owned by Areva, the multi-national that specialises in the research and development of nuclear power.
His job has given rise to speculation that he may have been involved in a plot to supply nuclear material to Iran — with Mr Al-Hilli, as a co-conspirator — which resulted in their elimination by state-sponsored Israeli assassins.
Inevitably, some people believe police have been too quick to discount this theory in favour of the simpler — and less politically charged — ‘lone psychopath’.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225436/The-man-whos-key-Alps-massacre-Mail-investigation-uncovers-vital-new-evidence-execution-British-family-thats-baffling-police.html#ixzz2ApclJVJT
So again he has been promoted from a welder according to some reports to a manager.
Yes Kathy.
Promoted, but now one less bullet to his head.
Straw44berry
30 Oct, 2012 – 9:11 pm Yup Straw I made this point some weeks ago. If it’s Sky vid from the 7/9/12 he says “the cyclists came down the hill behind me” or some such. I have put this down to just a wrong assumption on his part. I haven’t seen it repeated anywhere else. However there is the Mollier partner’s quote about his bike too good for his intended route. As the Combe d’Ire route that point is metalled and smooth one can only assume he intended to do the circular route over (I understand) unmade tracks. So once this possibility is accepted there is always the possibility that he did the circuit in the opposite direction. If he did it changes everything.
Then when I’m at it, I thought it was interesting how she went to the police immediately he was late getting back, complete with photograph. Was he travelling without mobile phone – unusual these days. We are told he was wearing cycling gear. It suggests a certain nervous or even expectation of trouble on the part of his partner I would say. If a child was back late – yes, but a mature man? If so we have a certain apprehension demonstrated by both the main targets don’t we?
@ Tim
According to the DM she didn’t go to the police; she knew what route he was taking and went driving to try to find him, met the road block and asked the police about it, then they told her to go to the station with a photo…and they then confirmed he’d been shot.
“Mr Mollier left his home for the last time around 2.30pm on September 5.
Much later that afternoon, when he did not return from his bike ride, Miss Schutz became worried. Eventually, she decided to get in her car to go and look for him.
Mr Mollier, 45, had told her where he was going, so she knew where to start her search. But her way was barred by a police road block near the bottom of the Route de la Combe d’Ire, leading up the mountainside, a route popular with hikers and cyclists.
Miss Schutz told the police she was very concerned about Mr Mollier; that he had not come home when she had expected and had not rung her.
Miss Schutz was asked to get a photograph of Mr Mollier and bring it to the police station. When she produced a photograph, her worst fears were confirmed”
And the above does imply that Mollier DID have a phone with him, if its true his partner wa concerned he hadnt rang her.
@TimV – yes ,I noticed the film allusions early on. As if they were all being briefed by the same “scene setters”. Referring to US crime fighting drama CSI (Crime Scene Investigation), Mr Maillaud said ‘It’s not like the American TV series where they solve everything in 45 minutes.’
Amazing – this was published Sept 12, the day before Martin spouted his CSI Miami line to the BBC. Collusion?? Or had they chatted on the plane and it was subliminal??
@Thomas – a very good article to remember from Sept 13. That was the day the Martin broadcast came out. Martin & Maillaud must have travelled to London together. Very good point to remember about Maillaud saying Martin would have to get back on his bike – yet he could have done that the previous day! Farcical. it emerged that the former RAF officer who stumbled on the carnage while cycling in the Alps last Wednesday has returned to his home in England.
The terrified man, who is in his 50s, is expected to return to France in the coming days to take part in a reconstruction of his journey….
Also, the injuries of Zainab which could have caused her to go blind in one eye –
“There are also fears for her sight.
A police source said there was no indication as to the extent of the damage to her vision, but one eye was seriously damaged”
have never been mentioned since. Especially by her Swedish uncle Ahmad in his softly softly interview with the BBC recently; or even the bullet in her shoulder…allegedly. And as for the ‘language barrier’ slowing the investigation down – double farcical. They keep forgetting the original narrative.
Guardian says: family business was seized in 1970.
Between 1968-1970 as a result of the war against israel, all jewish businesses were seized in iraq and most of the remaining 50.000 jews left iraq. Today there are only 16 jews living in baghdad while in 1932 there were 120.000 iraqi jews. In 1947, 10 out of 19 iraqi ministers were iraqi jews.
I believe that mochyn is right. Supported by the usa period of hashim al hilli from 1938-1941.
From the RIP Saad Al Hilli Facebook page
Nada Younis
Missing My dear sister Ikbal I find it so very hard to believe That you Ikbal have gone and I must grieve; I call out your name — you answer not, And I look for you in every familiar spot. Everything seems so strange and surreal, I ask everyday is it a dream or real? Where are the soft brown eyes of affection? Where is the laughter and talk of childhood reflection? Where is the loving care when I was sick or sad? Where is the generous soul for which I was glad? Where is the forgiving and understanding heart? Where are the bonds that were there from the start? I look at your smiling face in all my photos; Memories flood my mind as I touch the mementos From the happy times you and I have had, But now these bring tears and make me sad; For the time together went by in a wink, Life was not as long as we’d like to think. Now I know that your name will be on a cold hard stone That says little of the loving light you have shone; It tells nothing of the wonderful person you were, And only serves to remind me of the painful loss I endure; But I know your kind soul wants no tears or pain, Instead you’d want warm memories and love to remain. May GOD bless your lovely pure soul ikbal your dear mother’s and saad’s and may he give all those who loved you the strength and patience till we meet again79 · 22 October at 23:
at Thomas
31 Oct, 2012 – 12:29 am – could this be the first green shoots of the press actually growing some balls? No doubt they’ve been following us on here.
I didn’t know that Dopey
31 Oct, 2012 – 12:45 am – Thanks. It’s amazing even after all this time we keep learning new bits. Must have been a shock for the poor woman. But it also tends to confirms that he went UP the hill. Thanks again.
at Dopey
31 Oct, 2012 – 12:50 am – so he WAS carrying a phone then? And what a co-incidence, he starts his ride at the same time as WBM. Do we know where their houses were in relation to one another. I should love to have a map with them plotted precisely. Any clever plotters out there lol?
@Dopey
No Ferret. It’s 8 days from receiving the “warning”.
Thanks for the correction, my mistake.
@Felix
Nothing suspicious, move along please [no, seriously, but I wonder why the ex-Scotland Yard man chose it.
Thanks for the link… and yes, I wonder too. BTW, did you notice that he [Kevin Hurley] seems to have similar blinking problems to WBM in that video you posted, between 0:26 and 0:45?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssb1yAE6_hw
@TimV
Almost as if the wheels were already well oiled? Of course this intervention from the top precluded any examination of the three mortally wounded to confirm their status or the discovery of little Zeena for a further EIGHT hours.
Surely you are not suggesting that DGSE were involved?!?
To continue my logic:
Kadhim al Hilli signs: … ibn Abd’ul Hussain … ( son of Abdul Hussain)
Saddam signed: …. ibn Abd’ul Hussain …. ( son of Abdul Hussain …)
When abd’ul Hussain disappeared or he was killed (arab natinalsocialist killed a lot of jews in 1935-1941, Subha got shelter and care in a Jewish family. The abd’ul Hussain family would be a logic family for giving her shelter and care, particularly if that family were Jewish Iraqi.
At the same time, Hashim at the age of young 20 and his friend Hasan Ibrahim (25) enter the USA with a Diplomat Pass issued by the USA intelligence. They receive intelligence and military training in USA and return to Iraq in 1940/41 as allies of the Brotish/American army fighting the national-socialist Arabs in Iraq.
Subha needs a husband and Hashim’s friend Hasan Ibrahim is introduced tp her. Both Hashim and Hasan Ibrahim are CIA assets. Hasan Ibrahim is telling that he was on the Had in Mecca but nobody believes him. However, he was instead in the USA receiving intelligence training.
Consequence: The al Hilli brothers Hashim and Kadhim are Jewish half brothers of Saddam Hussain. That’s why Hashim was continuously a high ranked intelligence and foreign affars representative in Iraq although he had strong links to the CIA. Saddam must have known this. But Hashim on the other hand knew the truth about Saddam. That would explain quite a lot of the riddles.
Of course there is lack of proof and this is just a hypotheses based on the few facts that we know.
Now you would ask: why al hilli but not al majid?
Al majid isn’t a tribe nor is it a town. It is like a first name a description of character. Arab men can change their tribe name whenever they like from generation to generation. Particularly when it is useful to hide something important.