The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Hello @ all
you’re doing a great job altogether!!
Unfortunately, I don’t find the time to stay up-to-date and the language makes it not easier- it’s often really complicated to understand. Anyway very exciting and I do hope, nobody will close this site one day…
I guess, you’ve seen this pix – but just in case not- here the link:
http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2012/10/01/le-4×4-devale-la-foret-sur-trente-metres-un-mort-imgz
May be somebody might find out, who the owner is??
I mean, if FB had anything to do with this story, the police will know that for sure and a long time- but doesn’t want to share it with us.
(as well as what this neighbour (was it Mr. Saltman) wanted to tell police soon….
But, by the time, we get pretty used to this issue/circumstance, don’t we?
Good luck!
I’ve had problems with Icke all day. I’ve tried to log in a few times in the last couple of hours, and can’t. I get a “exceeded your login attempt quota” failed login message.
They’re saying its quiet on there. That’ll be why- loads can’t get logged in.
Shelock
we know that photo. The plate number tells us that the car was first registered in Oct/Nov 2011. This was a pretty new car. Unfortuantely that part on top right of that plate that would suggest the region from where that car was registered, is not visible on those pictures.
And today we got this:
http://www.detective-brun.com/detective/73/detective_chambery.htm
It is sufficient to read what they are doing
http://www.detective-brun.com/Professionnels/professionnels.htm
and {http://www.detective-brun.com/index.htm
It’s not unlike what the companies in Princes Gate 55 did ….
This is from the wayback machine 2008
http://web.archive.org/web/20080908081431/http://www.detective-brun.com/images/agrement.pdf
So the name of the company owner is Serge Brun. However, he had somebody in Ungin working for him according to his website. Can we link Serge and Frederic Brun?
This is the linkedin of Serge Brun
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/serge-brun/29/1a8/764
Here are some detectives from detective office Cabinet Brun on linkedin
http://www.linkedin.com/search?search=¤tCompany=C&company=Cabinet+Brun
Tim V – that is one excellent exposition you have there. I saw other posts by you but not this complete one. In particular, I did see your analysis of the anomalous timeline. Anyways, I am embarrassed by my own late-for-the-party little post – if I had yours in front of me, I’d have weaved my lines a bit more capably. Interesting that our points of anomaly nearly match (other than the few items that came to light later, like the passports).
Here’s another point: this detailed summary you provided dates October 5. Yet here we are nearly a month later and it is amazingly still applicable – almost in toto (might be a good idea, if you had time, to revise the few items that have become clearer since). Not one of the questions has been resolved since and if anything, only more confusion was added. All of which tells me that what’s really going on is not an investigation as much as an attempt to come up with plausible cover-up story. They are evidently failing because here we are with nothing remotely satisfactory and not a single “anomaly” (or as i called it – to quote good old Rumsfeld – the “known unknown”) cleared up or offered plausible explanation.
And this is where this line of thought leads to: the killing – if such took place – were carried out quite professionally – for all the reasons you pointed out. There can be no doubt about that. But the cover story has not been pre-prepared and from what we’ve seen shows evidence of some panicked, contradictory responses by the various agencies involved (just look at EM’s wriggling about – he is clearly kept in the dark about much, and has no doubt been given a “story” and is desperately trying to fit the facts within it – too much of an undertaking for the poor guy, clearly). That leads to only two possible conclusios:
1.There must have been a double-cross, somewhere along the way by another agency not involved in the original rendez-vous set-up. And that came as a surprise to the original parties. yet, that other agency cannot be named and perhaps there is recognition that there was an operational failure somewhere to anticipate such response. In this case the cover-up is hurried and embarrassed, just as we see
2. An extraction gone not quite right or not totally according to plan. The big problem with this theory is that this is just too complicated and messy, and there would be too many parties involved that would have to keep secrets.
OK, maybe more later.
http://www.midilibre.fr/2012/05/26/sur-les-traces-ruthenoises-d-un-detective-prive,507201.php
@ bluebird 4 Nov, 2012 – 1:25 pm
“This is the insect Brindille.
http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/11/13/88/90/brindi10.jpg
You cant see it when it is next to you because it looks like a twig and doesnt move at all. Franch mobsters use that for nicknaming a quiet observer.”
What if the trees at Martinet had “Iron Dragonflies” flying around or listening cockroaches crawling in the bushes? The services must have mechanical Brindilles to decorate branches already. Somebody – BM or SM or the 15 year old motorbiker – was up at Martinet before the meeting to place these items? That is why the services knew quickly, before the emergency services call was even made.
At MZT there is a good insight about why the long delay opening the car and waiting for experts from Paris. Maybe the local responders worried it was booby trapped with explosives. I added maybe they were worried about radioactive stuff. BM would be in a total panic if he realized the attackers made off with a backpack or a suitcase.
Remember that at SAHs home in Claygate they called for the military bomb squad, not the one from the local police.
Sys
4 Nov, 2012 – 3:21 am Denis O’Brien the owner of the stinks site is rejigging apparently. The way to get it now is http://www.logophere.com/ though many of the old Chevaline pages have yet to link. Hope this helps. Regards, Tim.
Sys
4 Nov, 2012 – 7:51 am I couldn’t bring up your suggested web addresses apart from the accelerator details. Therefore not quite sure what you mean although I would remind you that all three principal players (Maillaud, Didierjean and Martin) strangely refer to film/theatrical analogies for the crime scene. Almost an agreed script?
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0168900209005506-gr4.jpg
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00333/112636811_fr_333658d.jpg
Sys 4 Nov, 2012 – 7:53 am do I detect and are you suggesting, the diagram is replicated in the location of vehicles in lay by?
I have always suggested that the skid marks on the right hand side were connected. On this Times photo it appears a four wheel drive was parked right and took off in circular direction. Under power it is rear and front off side that loose traction as they might when turning right. They lead to the blood stain location. We have police reports that Mollier was struck by a car. They say it was SAH’s car but that was clearly impossible. More likely it was the attacker’s car and these tyre marks support this interpretation. It might even have struck Zainab and caused the head injury.
Straw44berry 4 Nov, 2012 – 8:00 am – but the windscreen WAS hit several times, I assume as the gun man fired at SAH as he rushed back to the driver’s seat probably causing the bonnet damage on the way. On one of the photos it appears as if the leading edge of the drivers door might have been struck as well. I agree however that these might be glancing blows rather than perpendicular shots – it’s impossible at this distance to tell.
Tim V
The BBC were clearly trying to get out the ‘Official story’ right from the off, regardless of whether later photos would contradict it.
Kenneth Sorensen
4 Nov, 2012 – 12:06 pm – brun/david local moss assets?
Bluebird
4 Nov, 2012 – 12:51 pm for the dumb-ass likes of me, could you do a quick recap of the Brun story please?
Bluebird 4 Nov, 2012 – 1:25 pm – This is the insect Brindille. if it is “stick insect”. I suppose no connection with the broken sticks at the crime scene. only a thought.
Tim V.
I think the thers are better in writing stories than me. I am just apperently – due to sorensen, an Irish bird. However, I am too bad in English since I am “Irish”. Better an English native will recap that story.
Just some facts. Approx. 1 week after the assassination, only 5 miles from Ugine, a green 4×4 pajero (see picture posted today) was crashing from a mountain road into the woods. On the backseat there was Frederic Brun, dead. The drivers weren’t in the car. Interviewed by police, they said that they had a car accident and the wheels were almost off ground and when they jumped off the car, the car fell down the mountain road and their “friend” in the backseat was unable to escape and died.
That friend was “Brindille”, the “silent observer” Frederic Brun.
In the first reports about the assassination there was a green/dark 4×4 Pajero seen by witnesses that left the scene. 1 week later, that 4×4 pajero was found with dead Frederic Brun.
Today we learnt that SM’s ex wife was a hair dresser. Frederic Brun was running a beauty saloon opposite to Cathy’s coiffeur and he lived in the house of Cathy’s coiffeur.
I believe that this is the whole Brun story so far.
Today we also learnt that Serge Brun (he must be approx. born in 1950) runs an international security and investigation company, what is probably the most important and biggest security company in France. They had an investigation branch in Ugine, too.
Now we need people who continue digging. We urgently need a relatives link between Serge and Frederic Brun. Serge could be father or uncle. His age definitely is one generation before Frederic’s.
My strong guess is that both SM and Brun were working for the international security/investigation company Serge Brun. My strong guess is that Brun was at the scene together with SM, arroving with the green Pajero. My strong guess is that Brun was waiting in the car when the shooting started. My strong guess is that Brun was able to escape but Saad wasn’t. Both cars have tried to escape quickyl, Brun did it, Saad was too slow because he wasn’t in that car.
However, escaping wasn’t enough for Brun. They who did it were too powerful and they completely deleted him one week later, plus his car, too. I wonder if police did search for bullet holes in the glass or metals of the Pajero that might have been there from the shooting happening a week ago. I bet that they didn’t search for that because for French police this was a “normal” traffic accident. Usually it isn’t normal when there is a traffic accident and the only person in the car is somebody being dead who is sitting on the back seat.
I believe that my guess about the scene and the two cars is pretty logic.
Does anybody have another opinion or would you like to add something else?
Marlin 4 Nov, 2012 – 7:40 pm Glad you liked my little piece. In fact I had written it a week or two before and had it on a British site before I found that one. As you say the passage of time has added new information and I might have got a few things wrong (for example I hadn’t seen Martin’s Sky interview till much later) but I think most of it has held together quite well. As I have mentioned several times on here, if Martin is an MI5 employee/agent the fact that he didn’t repeat/support – indeed contradicted – Maillaud’s line that it was Martin who made the 3.48 says much more I think. The British are clearly not rocking the boat but neither are they prepared to support a central lie. Strange enough I have had an up date article in the pipeline for some time that was going to adopt Rumsfelt’s famous quote in the title. Hope you won’t be offended by that if I do but it seemed quite applicable. If you do first I won’t mind lol. One line that at first sight cannot be under estimated is this Brun accident thing. I don’t know enough about it yet but it has a smell about it – the mysterious demise of a perpetrator is very cia.
Bluebird 4 Nov, 2012 – 11:40 pm many thanks for this summary. I don’t think the importance of this story can be over-stated! Martin reports green 4×4 going up and coming down at the critical time; police putting out a call for a Mitsubishi Pajera; then one turns up with a dead man in the back who shares a property with Mollier’s partner and they shrug their shoulders and say “Just another unfortunate road accident” !!!!!!!! Why was that car not sent off for forensics? You couldn’t make it up.
I am in awe of your research skills bluebird. We undoubtedly need to know who was in the car with Brun allegedly and whether the Gendarme are pressing charges. And what has happened to the car. Did Brun undergo autopsy and drug residue test? You’re the right person for that BB. Good digging.
@Tim
I’ve been away from things for 24 hours…
Check at Icke for some pics of the Pajero. It was the weirdest of car crashes ever. Vehicle damage didn’t square with the accident scene..it just looked like it had been pushed off the road into a couple of trees.
Just catching up on the Telegraph article.
Initial thoughts…why the two month silence if this was a tragedy. Surely the whole town would be out at the funeral – they all seem related, so many Molliers. Why so secetive?
It seems the aunt, Suzanne Ginolin lets out rooms to students etc at Avenue de Serbie 1.
http://www.ugine.com/UserFiles/File/liste_location_meubles_etudiants.pdf
Another amusing Iraqi connection – another Ugine landlady is called
Mme Marie-Françoise CHALABI !
The named cousin is probably the carpenter
{http://www.societe.com/societe/mollier-camus-alain-marc-gilbert-313128142.html}
at Notre Dame de Bellecombe, north-east of Ugine and who also lets out a chalet, with a more informative website than Brett Martin’s was…
{http://www.locations-bellecombe.com/valdarly_mont_blanc_Le_Stardenet-30-1.html}
Tim V.
Careful, you are a bit over enthusiastic.
I am pretty good at genealogy and digging, but that’s it. And I remember a lot of of what I had already read, that is helpful, too. And I know something about politicial history.
However, what you have written as a summary is not all yet confirmed.
What we still need to confirm:
1. Is Coiffeur Cathy really the place where Mollin’s ex-wife works or had worked before?
2. Did his ex wife know Frederic Brun who worked opposite of Coiffeur Cathy and who lived in the same house where Coiffeur Cathy is situated. I MUST see that video or somebody else must see it to compare this with google street view. Is there a clip somewhere available? This remains still being unconfirmed. Unfortunately. However, there aren’t that many coiffeurs in Ugine.
3. Is Frederic Brun somehow related to Serge Brun, the French detective agency?
4. Are the Bruns somehow related with the Mollier/Ginolin family? E.g. through marriage or by common political interests.
We’ll have to confirm those questions first.
What we definitely know by now is the traffic accident, the green 4×4 Pajero and that Brun is dead and that he was apparently sitting on the backseat of that car. We also know that Brun had a beauty saloon and that Mollier’s ex wife is a hair dresser. We know that in Brun’s house there is Coiffeur Cathy. We know that Serge Brun runs an international detective, intelligence and security service and that they have a branche in Ugine.
we know that Frederic Brun’s nickname was Brindille. “Brindille” means “silent observer” or differently said that means “spy”. “Brindille” comes from that insect that looks like a twig while it doesn’t move. I must say that this is a lot what we definitely know. However, there are some things we need to add to our knowledge urgently before we could let rest the case “Brun/Mollier”.
felix
did you already compare that video with google street view (regarding the place of the coiffeur)?
@Marlin
I like what you write. I wholly concur with your analysis of EM. He is clearly squirming,but doing it very professionally. What a thing to happen on your watch. I am assuming he was given no pre-warning, like, “clear your diary,don’t be on holiday that week, Eric….”
@Blue,
give me a minute! (no not yet…) I’ll put a screen shot of the hairdresser on Icke too. Check that guy in check shirt lurking at the back of the salon…
felix.
Do you remember this guy posting on the very first blog on this website?
His nickname was: “Mark Golding – Children of Iraq Association”
I reread his 4 or 5 messages just now and I must say that this guy must have been an insider since he already knew on September 7th what we know today. He even mentioned the name Chalabi, a neocon Iraqi who is best friend of Rumsfeld and Cheney and who today is their man in Iraq. Simply reread his entries. This guy was OUR source. Unfortunately he disappeared right after Anders die capture that blog, or else, was it Frederic Brun? (OK, that’s just a weird conspiracy). Jon and Craig would be able to track if the IP came from France. However, reading his entry with the knowledge we have today I must say: This guy knew everything!
That was the blog when he posted! Awesome and almost frightening when you are reading this today:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/shootings-in-france/comment-page-3/#comments
Whether or not this guy is still here, PLEASE post again! You know more about that than us!
While I am looking – comment on this forum…
danza
Caporegime
A colleague of mine used to work with Saad al-hilli (about 2.5 years ago), and remembers there being a family property dispute at the time. He was a very nice guy apparently. Don’t have any more nuggets though.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?s=dba8563eb55b4fb1a4e7ee12cce4ea0f&t=18439529&page=7
Maybe off topic, but worth a look.
The Ginolin family are relatives of the Mollier family. Aix-le-Bains is 30 minutes from Annecy and 50 minutes from Ugine.
Perform the following steps. At first read the biography of Maxime Ginolin. This is very important.
http://www.maximeginolin.com/en/biography/
As a next step watch the youtube clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJG9nNu25jQ
I cannot say for sure that whether or not he is closely related to the Mollier family, but he definitely is a Ginolin family member. Did you read his biography? Die you watch the video? Now start thinking about Sylvain’s ideology when he was a family member of Sylvain’s family ……
that would perfectly fit with what the poster “Mark Golding – Children of Iraq Association” did post on in the very first days on that Craig Murray blog. Unfortunately he completely disappeard on Sept 9th. – that video would perfectly fit with what he posted about Saad al Hilli. And then read the BIOGRAPHY of young Maxime Ginolin and we know what kind of family this is …..
Another distraction….
@ Blue
MG is a CM regular. Suhail might know more.
Fascinating reading. “contacts”
On the other hand CM’s contacts said “nothing to see here”.
@ Blue
I had forgotten about that other quoted retired senior policeman who also lived in Claygate, John O’Connor
John O’Connor, a former deputy commander of the Metropolitan Police, said he was astounded that such violence could have been visited on a family from the peaceful village where he had chosen to retire.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
{http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/john-o-connor}
{http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/903954087}
{https://www.duedil.com/company/02924926/europol-associates-limited/people}