The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@Kenneth Sorensen
6 Nov, 2012 – 8:33 am
This is interesting – ‘tirer par lex cheveux’, yes literally it means pull by the hair, but in English we have a saying ‘to pull someone’s leg’ which is what we say when someone is telling you a story that seems a bit far-fetched. How to say that in French is ‘tirer par les cheveux’!
I am beginning to think one of Anders’ theories may be right after all – it’s all a FAIRYTALE™.
@Kenneth Sorensen
6 Nov, 2012 – 8:33 am
‘tirer par les cheveux’, while it does literally mean to pull by the hair is the French equivalent of ‘pulling someone’s leg’ in English.
It’s what you would say if someone told you a far-fetched story.
‘tirer par les cheveux’ is how to say that in French.
http://learnfrench.katiaandkyliemac.com/archive/kk_learn_french_62.php
So do we have something like “if God wanted to pull my leg to let me go to Heaven, that wouldn’t happen ..”?
One thing is sure,this certainly is a far fetched story.
It could be a ‘double-joke’, or ‘triple-joke’, i.e. funny on so many levels, on at least 3 levels as I see it, because the first level is that he don’t think God would ever consider him as going to Paradise anyway. The second is this about a bald man being pulled by the hair, and the third is that it is all a bit far-fetched
NR
6 Nov, 2012 – 11:05 am
Yes you are probably right. It will be that Israeli trick of accusing their enemies of being anti-semitic.
I’m starting to want to hear more of his jokes:
Could you have a crack at this one?
This “floch” – it couldn’t be the f*** word could it?
@Kathy
Quite right. People who hate Israelis clearly hate all Israeli citizens equally, be they Jews, Muslims, Christians, or Druze. Nothing to do with hating Jews per se.
@Trow
I believe you could be sued for libel in a number of juristictions, regardless of the location of CM’s server in the Netherlands. It would be interesting to hear what transpires (if anything).
BTW, what do you mean by your use of “aka”? Usually aka means “also known as” but that doesn’t make any sense in your use of it: “A most irate Rosenfeld aka Tommie Doheny called me twice this morning…” Are you saying you believe these are one and the same person?
@ Ferret
I think it is the Israeli government and it’s actions people are against plus the fact that it is a stolen land and an expansionist one at that.
@Kenneth Sorensen
6 Nov, 2012 – 12:10 pm
I think it could be the ‘f****’word, if you mean les flics, the fuzz, the bizzies, the rozzers, the Old Bill, the officers of law enforcement.
“Des Indiens y’en a plus mais des floch eu y’en a encore”
I think it could mean ‘There aren’t any Indians any more, but there are still plenty of Flochs’
Nicholas le Floch is a fictional hero of a series of historical detective novels written by Jean-François Parot. He is a notaire’s clerk, an ‘inspecteur’.
Au début de son séjour à Paris, Nicolas Le Floch a eu une liaison avec une jeune prostituée, La Satin (de son vrai nom Antoinette Godelet), il en a un fils Louis, qu’il reconnaît dans le 5e volume. C’est aussi dans ce volume qu’il rencontre Aimée d’Arranet, fille d’un lieutenant général des armées navales, et en tombe durablement amoureux ..
Here are the titles of these detective novels:
1 – L’Énigme des Blancs-Manteaux, Paris : éditions Jean-Claude Lattès, 2000, ISBN 2-7096-2037-5 ;
2 – L’Homme au ventre de plomb, Paris : J. C. Lattès, 2000, ISBN 2-7096-2038-3 ;
3 – Le Fantôme de la rue Royale, Paris : J. C. Lattès, 2001, ISBN 2-7096-2284-X ;
4 – L’Affaire Nicolas Le Floch, Paris : J. C. Lattès, 2002, ISBN 2-7096-2350-1 ;
5 – Le Crime de l’hôtel Saint-Florentin, Paris : J. C. Lattès, 2004, ISBN 2-7096-2514-8 ;
6 – Le Sang des farines, Paris : J.-C. Lattès, 2005, ISBN 2-7096-2674-8;
7 – Le Cadavre anglais, Paris : J.-C. Lattès, 2007, ISBN 2-7096-2867-8 ;
8 – Le Noyé du grand canal, Paris : J.-C. Lattès, 2009, ISBN 2-7096-3036-2 ;
9 – L’Honneur de Sartine, Paris : J.-C. Lattès, 2010, 450 p. ISBN 2-7096-3426-0 ;
10 – L’Enquête russe, Paris : J.-C. Lattès, 2012, 550 p. ISBN 2-7096-3694-8
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Le_Floch
What about number 7 ‘The English Body’??
There have been a number of TV adaptations:
http://programmes.france2.fr/nicolas-le-floch/
Is someone extracting the urine?
that’s a great Times aerial shot Pink 6 Nov, 2012 – 6:03 am. Even from that distance the tyre marks at the other end are quite pronounced and I’m pretty sure you can trace a circular sweep to the near-side of the BMW and blood stains. Now can anyone explain why the WRONG layby was identified early on as at http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=891&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsuo&tbnid=xyHDTbRcUdbg5M:&imgrefurl=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19729566&docid=ib5mqSehjrhHDM&imgurl=http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/62750000/jpg/_62750011_is_of_layby.jpg&w=464&h=261&ei=QQ2ZUNzbFMb14QTJiIGYCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=540&vpy=352&dur=2158&hovh=168&hovw=300&tx=46&ty=101&sig=102623993251211428976&page=1&tbnh=132&tbnw=230&start=0&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0,i:94 and repeated on this and other threads?
Mochyn said:
No, it was Ugine.
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With regards to extraction, talk to Felix.
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Floch is a Breton word for ‘the baptised’ and is used as a surname.
Former CEO of Elf, Loïk Le Floch-Prigent. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lo%C3%AFk_Le_Floch-Prigent
You know the expression “too many chiefs and not enough Indians”? Could it mean something like that?
6 November 2012 Last updated at 12:41
Azelle Rodney inquiry A police officer who killed a man in north-west London seven years ago had shot two other people dead earlier in his career, an inquiry has heard.
Azelle Rodney, 24, was shot six times in Edgware in 2005 after the car he was in was stopped on 30 April 2005
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20219124
British are quite capable of shooting first. The BBC News report has good image of the damaged rear window but I can’t find a still of it.
Azelle Rodney, 24, was shot six times in Edgware in 2005 after the car he was in was stopped on 30 April 2005.
This was a PROFESSIONAL KILLING. It rather defeats the official argument in the Mollier/Al Hilli shooting that multiple shots to the body suggested it was done by amateurs.
Please remember,- when evaluating the “floch” joke, you need to consult the original base material, in order to see for yourself that the word concerned is indeed “floch”. Remember to enlarge by pressing CRTL+.
@Tim V
6 Nov, 2012 – 1:15 pm
BBC disinformation,I’m afraid. Much like RAF man’s interview with the wardrobe,the mirror and the potted palm.
Seriously,that is a great photo, and it shows the very close proximity of the other road in the upper left hand part, and the stony river bed in the lower part of the photo.
I’m still not convinced the maps we’ve seen are right yet either.
You asked how anyone could give directions to that spot. I think, ‘just keep on going until you get to the route barrée sign’ would just about do it.
This can clearly be seen in the photos of the press pack trampling all over the crime scene.
Mochyn69
6 Nov, 2012 – 6:56 am
sudden disappearance us
7.laisse a huge void, but
8.nos his hearts filled á
9.jamais of mervellieux and
10.inoubliables (marvellous and unforgettable?)memories.
‘The little favours he usually used to give us..’
13.et expressions cults. “It
14.faut not do “,” All
15.vedettes (stars?) not á
16.Hollywood “,” Indians y’en
17.plus but had floch y’en
18.encore “,” You see, what ”
19. “History said,” “You know what
20.que I wanna tell you, “will
21.dans our memories.
22.Tous we remember
23.de “twig” as being a
24.joyeux, generous and
25.attentativé.
26. “Twig”, forever in
27.nos hearts and minds.
“Not all the stars are in Hollywood” Yea OK quite understandable but is it also code for all the references to the crime scene “being like a Hollywood set”? Perhaps I’m being fanciful?
mochyn
weren’t the aboriginal Indians always some “silent observers” ?
Floch … detective novels
Serge Brun ….. France’s biggest detective office
Frederic Brun …. the “Brindille” meaning the “silent observer”.
Step by step this is going to make some sense.
Please remember,- when evaluating the “floch” joke, you need to consult the original base material, in order to see for yourself that the word concerned is indeed “floch”. Remember to enlarge by pressing CRTL+.
As far as I know, Sam Rosenfeld is also known as Tommie Doheny, as this link explains:
http://cryptome.org/tommy-doheny.htm
Rosenfeld has a lot of heavy baggage, as the link details, and I doubt that he will get far in any action, anywhere, as he has waited far too long to start libel actions as his complaints go back at least a decade, and he has already threatened to sue me twice but has not done so.
And he has yet, it seems,to go after The Phoenix which has much more resources than me, and is what I based my claims on.
Court actions could shed light on all kinds of covert, dirty bits, even possibly the sabotaged Chinook helicopter tragedy.
Cheminade, the director of Larouche’s Solidarite & Progres in France, has been said to be the “French Presidential Candidate of Saddam Hussein”.
http://historyofafricaotherwise.blogspot.co.at/2012/03/france-independent-candidate-jacques.html
This sounds crazy for many, but as a matter of fact, Saddam Hussein held many close relationships with European right wing politicians, and he was also supporting and financially funding those right wing leaders throughout Europe, such as Austrian deceased Joerg Haider, Hungary’s Viktor Orban, French Michel Faci and Alain de Benoist, Germany’s NDP Michael Kuhnen and Heinz Reisz and Russia’s Vladimir Zhirinovsky. There were also Robert Steuckers from Belgium as well as the Fronte Nazionali Franco Freda (Italian National Front). Then there is the Aryan Nations’ Islamic outreach with its own ‘Liaison’ website with as one of the frequent writers David Wulstan Myatt (reputed to have been a member of the underground paramilitary groups Column 88 and Combat 18) who apperently received funds from Saddam Hussein.
Apparently there was always a deep link between the Larouche movements and Saddam Hussein’s Iraqi Baath party, particularly in terms of funds. Finally it doesn’t surprise us that Iraqi al-Askari is the leader of Sweden’s national-solcialist EAP.
We have Larouche and right wing movements apparently receiving funds form Saddam Hussein. Did that funds stop to flow to the recipients after his apparent death or did the money continue to flow through Saddam’s selected agents throughout Europe who have had access to those Swiss and Liechtenstein accounts?
Let’s investigate from the other side and there you see that we could find several motives and several links to the Larouche movements both in France and in Sweden and on the other side, there are the secret Swiss Saddam accounts and his former and current account managers ….. Make your own picture! Political movements need money continuously ….
@Ferret: You just never know what’s under foot, in a tunnel deep beneath the ground. As for the muon detector and its connection to the Savoie/Haute-Savoie:
http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/1127.htm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080910111519AASgeIJ
Before this, I thought the Haute-Savoie was all about skiing. To think that you could stay in the area and do something like this, if you were a local boy or girl:
http://juas.in2p3.fr/general.html
For that matter, it’s just a hop, skip and a jump to CERN, only 40 minutes away:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Location_Large_Hadron_Collider.PNG
One more political view
Joe O’Reilly, IRA bodyguard of Michael Collins (Irish leader)
http://irishvolunteers.org/2012/04/the-volunteers-irish-citizen-army-ira-cumman-na-mban-photo-file-part-3/
As a matter of fact, the O’Reillys are catholic.
Could Zaid’s deceased wife Geraldine O’Reilly having had family links to Joe O’Reilly?
There are of course documents that Saddam Hussein did finance the IRA and that the IRA in return delivered intelligence and terror sqwad professionalism into Iraq.
I starting looking into heavy ions, Rutherford-Appleton and lasers. Numerous articles appeared, although I didn’t find any crediting a certain student of interest from the 1980s.
Ricki Tarr 6 Nov, 2012 – 10:44 am. It is clear that Israel is prepared to use assassination squads whenever or where ever it considers its national interests are at stake. The latest being the recent confirmation of the Tunisian killing of Abu Jihad. It is also clear it has a long running anti Iranian policy that extends beyond its national boundaries and the issue of nuclear power. It supports the break up of Iraq into probably three geographical area partly as a way of extending its influence in the Kurdish region and frustrate Iranian long term aim of a middle east hegemony extending to Iraq, Sunni Saudi and the other peripheral states. The well documented and systematic assassination of at least 500 Iraqi university academics has been carried out by some organisation or more and with the Israeli track record it would be naive to think it was not behind many of the above. Al Hilli was undoubtedly flagged up to Israeli Intelligence by his on-line anti Israeli/American opinions and family political background. If there was any hint of a pro-Iranian transfer of information in relation to the Mollier/Al Hilli specialists spheres, I have no doubt Israel would be prepared to intervene, with or without the collusion of the French or even the British. (Nothing new there then – remember Suez). My feeliong on this one is that France was fully aware indeed co-operative, whereas Britain rather taken by surprise by the violent outcome if not the possibility – even using Al Hilli as bait to discover a more obscure network. Army bomb squad at house and twenty British “military types” at the crime scene are NOT normal responses to any type of murder, least of all “robberies going wrong”. (We still do not know what the latter did at the scene btw) If, as has been suggested here, a “D Notice” was issued preventing newspaper editors making any reference to Al Hilli working as a British Intelligence asset, it pretty well confirms that he was I would say, wouldn’t you?
You could Q if you qualify start now and you can be there in 4 years 🙂
“Courses are intended for students from any recognised European University. No preliminary knowledge of accelerators is required, but participants must have a basic and proven knowledge (4 years at university) of physics or engineering.”
@Suhayl: If flashing a photo ID is all that’s needed to enter CEZUS, I’d be surprised that they haven’t gotten a talking-to by government security officials. Since 9/11, security has become a big issue. The alleged slackers at CEZUS security might be shocked to learn that radio frequency ID is embedded in security passes nowadays, and even in drivers’ licences in other countries. There is also facial recognition software. In other countries, photographs for drivers’ licences now require the removal of eyeglasses in order to show the drivers’ eyes, specifically pupils. This information is processed by the national government, where presumably it is kept in the civilian intelligence offices on a computer. That is just to drive a car. Similar technology is also used in passports. It’s hard to believe that CEZUS is living in a pre-9/11 bubble, unlike the rest of the world.
@Bluebird: Many sites feature the five-sided figure. It’s a whole theme out there. Here’s one: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Illuminati/dc.htm
@ BB
With all due respect, we are looking for needles and you are making haystacks. Many things in the world are loosely connected but it is a mistake to conclude that, therefore, they may have a bearing on each other. The point of research is to refine knowledge through a process of elimination, not to confuse by accumulating detail which has no contextual relevance. I could propose that Geraldine O’Reilly is connected to John Francis O’Reilly (an opportunistic WW2 German spy) but even if it is true it is not relevant to the Chevaline murders.
CD,
this is important to link the connections if this was about money and/or leaked information.
When there was a European Larouche meeting in Chevaline, then Suhaila could have been the European financial manager of the European Larouche movement, while Sylvain and Frederic were the representatives of Cheminade and Saad al Hilli might have had the keys (access) to those accounts, representing his father’s inheritance. Of course they were all on the same side and interest. We simply don’t know about who did interfere this otherwise peaceful meeting. Who was the third, unknown, party? Who has got an interest to stop funding Larouche/CIA with Iraqi money?
Not sure you got the point I was making Mochyn69 6 Nov, 2012 – 2:05 pm which is that early aerial shots and lots of other people identified completely the WRONG lay by, and I have even seen it repeated recently. The crime scene lay by is NOT at the top (altitude) right (as viewed) or easterly (by compass) hairpin bend but about 75 yards north of the LH one, opposite the river. The question I was posing was first, how could this mistake be made and second was it deliberate like a lot of other irrelevant “lines of inquiry”?
@CD
6 Nov, 2012 – 3:22 pm
Glad you said that. My thoughts exactly.
Let’s not forget the al Hillis and Sylvain Mollier.
I just noticed that SM’s family’s acknowledgment notice is right there alongside FB’s very strange and cryptic obituary notice in Le Dauphine Libere’s Carnet.
Sorry if that had been made clear earlier, but I hadn’t realised that before.