The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@ bluebird 6 Nov, 2012 – 3:33 pm
But… (i) conclusive proof has not been produced that the SM who was murdered is the same SM who is involved with the group which may have an association with Larouche; (ii) the deceased Frederic Brun (dit Brindille) may not be the same as the Brun in the group membership list; therefore (iii) this line of enquiry may be an irrelevance.
CD,
IRA conflict victims (the Geraldine listed here is NOT teh Geraldine who was Zaid’s wife)
O’Reilly, Geraldine 28 December 1972, (15) nfNIRI
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: non-specific Loyalist group (LOY)
Killed in car bomb explosion outside post office, Belturbet, County Cavan.
O’Reilly, Patrick 27 May 1975, (52) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Shot while driving along road at Scallen, near Irvinestown, County Fermanagh.
O’Reilly, Anthony 09 March 1976, (43) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: non-specific Loyalist group (LOY)
Restaurant owner. Shot during gun and bomb attack on Golden Pheasant Inn, Ballynahinch Road, Baillies Mills, near Lisburn, County Down.
O’Reilly, Myles 09 March 1976, (41) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: non-specific Loyalist group (LOY)
Restaurant owner. Shot during gun and bomb attack on Golden Pheasant Inn, Ballynahinch Road, Baillies Mills, near Lisburn, County Down.
O’Reilly, John 20 January 1987, (26) Catholic
Status: Irish National Liberation Army (INLA), Killed by: Irish People’s Liberation Organisation (IPLO)
Shot while in Rossnaree Hotel, Drogheda, County Louth. Irish National Liberation Army / Irish People’s Liberation Organisation feud.
O’Reilly, Francis 06 October 1998, (30) Catholic
Status: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), Killed by: Red Hand Defenders (RHD)
Died one month after being injured by blast bomb, thrown during street disturbances, Charles Street, Portadown, County Armagh. Injured on 5 September 1998.
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/alpha/O.html
CD,
this is no irrelevance, since we know for sure (approved) that family members of the Ugine branch of families
Mollier
Mollier-Caroz
Ginolin
and Brun
are some of them even leading members of Solidarite & Progres.
@Tim V
6 Nov, 2012 – 3:33 pm
Believe me,I did get the point. There has been a lot of conflicting information about the location,and I’m still not totally convinced we have it correctly identified on the maps I’ve seen. There was a lot of discussion of the exact co-ordinates back on here a couple of week’s ago.
A pic of the press pack crawling over the scene is here:
http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Faits-divers/Actualite/Le-scenario-minute-par-minute-de-la-tuerie-de-Chevaline-555890
There’s also a useful video driving up the Combe forest road from Chevaline somewhere, but I can’t remember where, possibly on one of the Daily Mail’s stories.
All this confusion and conflicting information can only be detraction and obfuscation.
Following up on the idea of flashing an ID card to enter CEZUS facilities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva_NC:
“Ugine
Cezus’ primary research and development center, named CRC, is in Ugine, Savoie. Also a service center, it employs 25 engineers and technicians in zirconium-based alloys metallurgy and processes. It has partnerships with the French National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS) and universities. It conducts research and development of new alloys for fuel assemblies. It develops software for fabrication of zirconium sponge, shaping of zirconium alloys, and conversion processes.
Plant established in 1971 with a workforce of 360. Metalworking (melting, forging) and transformation of reactive metals such as zirconium, hafnium, titanium for critical nuclear and aeronautical applications. Plant turns zirconium sponge into an alloy semifinished product. Main operations: melt, forge, extrude and recycle. Outputs extruded billets, slabs and bars.
Subsidiary: Société Timet Savoie (titanium).
It is the site where Sylvain Mollier, one of the Annecy shootings victims, worked when he died.
“Il travaillait dans un atelier de production chez Cezus, une usine du groupe nucléaire français Areva […].”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_National_Centre_for_Scientific_Research
http://aliceinfo.cern.ch/Public/en/Chapter3/Chap3Collaboration-en.html
Seems like flashing an ID card (and the requisite smile) might be a bit of an understatement, given what a CEZUS ID card could access.
Completely irrelevant, but early news photographs of Colonel Russell Williams’ home in Tweed, Ontario showed a metal star attached to the back exterior of the house. Comments in various forums referred to it as a pentagram. It’s difficult to find those photos on news sites now.
@CD
6 Nov, 2012 – 3:43 pm
But .. there is no conclusive proof that you are CD, or BB is indeed a bird, or Anders was Anders. All we can deal in are speculations based on the available published information, none of which, or all of which may be quite simply a FAIRYTALEâ„¢.
It does however seem that there is an established link betweeen the local families and Solidarite et Progres, which is a LaRouche organisation.
@Bluebird
6 Nov, 2012 – 3:49 pm
Please let’s not get into Irish genealogy, or the Irish question, fascinating as they both are, or we will be here for time and eternity. Only four years to go to the Centenary!
@BB
So, they have the same surname and live in the same region? It proves nothing. It’s as valid as saying that since your ‘name’ is Bluebird you must drive a Nissan. And, since you drive a Nissan, you must drive on the left side of the road.
You are confusing assumptions with facts.
@Ferret
Carmarthen, rather than East Dulwich, I think.
just catching up on the Blue Mountain Group..dramatis personae at a glannce:
http://benghazipost.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/blue-mountain-security-solutions-exposed.html
{http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/18/us-libya-usa-bluemountain-idUSBRE89G1TI20121018}
“Blue Mountain, which is based in [Carmarthen] Wales.”
{https://www.duedil.com/director/915618784/simon-kent-howell}
{http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/912743796}
{https://www.duedil.com/company/06809841/security-training-wales-limited}
{http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/913609796}
{http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/908169032}
@Felix: G4S.
Wales = Operation Mincemeat’s Major William Martin, Royal Marines.
@Felix: I wonder who the clients for this company are:
http://www.identificationsolutions.co.uk/
CD,
so you find it quite usual that a Shia muslim marries a catholic Irish woman and has children with her?
Yes, that is quite normal to our Western understanding, but tell that a shia cleric! For shias and sunnis that is a deadly sin except she would change her belief. Irish ever changing their belief? Well, so tell me the answer!
There had always been the opinion that the al Hilli’s were no muslims but either Christians or Jewis. That would correlate with the matter of fact that Hashim got a diplomat passport already at the age of young 20 in 1938. That means, he must have had an either prosperous or rich family. In Iraqi government at that time there were more than 50% Jewish and 25% Christian representatives while amongst the rich people there were 80% Jewish or Christian Iraqis.
The O’Reilly being catholic factor shouldn’t be left out in the marriage between Zaid and Geraldine. Many still have the opinion that Iraq was a string Muslim country. Quite the contrary is true. Even today you’re going to find a much higher percentage of Christians in Iraq than you would find in European countries like Turkey, Albania or Bosnia.
We should look at the al Hilli family form a completely different perspective, particularly when we are taking the O’Reilly factor into our consideration. That way we can understand a political and ideological relationship between Saad and Mollier and Larouche much betterthan if we’d look at Saad al Hilli as if we were bin Laden.
@ bluebird
6 Nov, 2012 – 5:01 pm
You are completely wrong there. I personally know of at least three Irish women married to Iraqi Muslims and loads of others of all nationalities. Remember Margaret Hassan for example – she was the Irish woman who was killed in Iraq during the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hassan
What basis have you for your wrong assumptions? Pure propaganda I would say to demonise Iraqis.
@ BB
It is too easy to assume that someone with an Irish surname is catholic or, if they were raised catholic, that they remain adherents. The same is true of other religious heritage – many people consider themselves secularised and marry outside their ‘tradition’. Similarly, many reject a lot of the political and other fundamental baggage associated with the religion they were born into.
The information about Hashim al Hilli is fascinating but, it is my belief, that it remains un-proven that this man is the same person who fled to the Uk with his family from Iraq in 1970, having suffered partial paralysis at the hands of Saddam’s henchmen.
@ CD
Don’t be so mean to Bluebird. Having spent the last two weeks or so watching in amazement how much utter nonsense you supposedly critical thinkers and arch-skeptics will greedily lap up without a shred of proof – strange that BB’s amazing research skills enable him to discover that SAH was Saddam’s secret love child, but do not stretch to the ability to take and upload screenshots of supporting evidence –, I have come to the conclusion that he must be conducting some sort of psychological experiment to do with the concept of the Big Lie. The bigger the lie, the more implausible the claim, the greater the propensity of certain personality types to believe it. Even when obvious logical inconsistencies emerge, it suffices to add another layer of untruth. The same guy living on two different continents at the same time? No problem, that is easily explained: There were two guys; one of them was a Mossad agent impersonating the other guy. They always do that, don’t you know?
It really is hilarious to watch the direction – round and round in ever-expanding circles, heading absolutely nowhere – that this discussion has taken. Priceless 😉
The Maquis-de-Glieres must have had quite an extensive series of tunnels in the Haute-Savoie. I imagine many of those were found by spelunking. Caving and canyoning are part of the tourist attractions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1DH_U1-57Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIXUpN2J_V
My bet is that there are caves known only to locals, perhaps some with connections to the old maquis. These could serve as handy caches, for those who can find them.
@Peter: Only the investigators will find proof of anything. They have access to forensic evidence and background investigations of the victims. The public is not privy to such things, in order to protect the integrity of the investigation.
This is always the case: investigators find proof. Until then, all we have is speculation. Take it or leave it. Believe it or not. It’s your choice.
CD
6 Nov, 2012 – 5:15 pm
The information about Hashim al Hilli is fascinating but, it is my belief, that it remains un-proven that this man is the same person who fled to the Uk with his family from Iraq in 1970, having suffered partial paralysis at the hands of Saddam’s henchmen.
++++
What is your proof for that sentence? Why would you make to believe that Hasim al Hilli had ever suffered anything at all from Saddam’s henchmen?
If you like to watch the documents, search for yourself. I gave you the links. However, it is against the ToS of several websites to copy/paste their document scans they do offer in their paid membership areas. I told you where to find those documents. Whether or not you are unable to search properly …, look, that isn’t my problem.
Research and investigation isn’t successful when you try to find out what e.g. the car had done at a certain time and perhaps who were with whom standing where at a certain time. What is really necessary for getting a picture would the findings about those people, their beliefs, their friends, their working area, their hobbies, their ideology, and particularly their possible connections. We knew from the very first day that the press releases were fake and blatant lies. So why should any of us waste the time to further explore any fake and lies? We know that what we have heard is wrong and it got proven by many of you.
However, having got a picture about their lives does make it far more easy to step into their lives for yourself and follow their paths and possible thoughts and actions.
peter,
of course I am working for Mossad, MI6, CIA, and SIS just to name a few, simply because I did interrupt your important discussion about “that all that must have been done by Mossad”.
Why would we waste our time to investigate anything at all when 50% out of you already knew for sure that this was done by Mossad. Then we should better close that case, shouldn’t we? That’s exactly the red herring that is being cried out by some of you who don’t want the real truth and the real backgrounds being investigated. At this time of our research I see Mossad absolutely NOWHERE in that whole picture. I can see a lot of private security firms, I can see some mobsters and I can see a LOT of CIA-connections plus CIA connections by so many people on that scene and CIA related security firms who did enter that stage to perform us a pretty weird Shakespeare tragedy so that the general public wouldn’t ask any further questions.
Peter,
I have a question for you. Why did the Mollier family suddenly feel the need to stand up for Sylvain when they failed to do so for 2 months?
@Q
Superb post about Cezus Ugine, where Sylvain Mollier worked.
Cezus’ primary research and development center, named CRC, is in Ugine, Savoie. Also a service center, it employs 25 engineers and technicians in zirconium-based alloys metallurgy and processes.
As you know, Sylvain Mollier was initially identified as a metallurgist. If that’s what his job really was — as seems most likely — then that would place him right in the heart of the R&D department, as some of us have long suspected.
And thanks for the links earlier on “what lies beneath” in Haute-Savoie. I must say I was as surprised as you to find so much high-powered scientific research going on in the area – I thought it was all just skiing and mountaineering!
🙂
A query I raised many pages back. I just wondered about all the Libyan/Lebanese/American connections and Zaid having a prominent Irish republican name.
Bluebird, at 5:01pm, 6.11.12.
I don’t know where you’re living, but I know several such families, personally – Muslim Iraqi/other Arab-Catholic Irish. It’s not unusual at all! It’s really common. You know, before all the sectarian crap, Iraq itself also had mixed faith families. Shias often married Sunnis, and both married Christians.
One of our best pals is a Pakistani Christian (High Anglican) Scot who married a half-Iraqi (I don’t know whether Shia or Sunni) Muslim, half- Southern Irish Roman Catholic Scot.
Another acquaintance is a half-English (white English, that is), half Pakistani Muslim who married a Pakistani Christian both living in Pakistan, whose (Pakistani Christian) ex-Communist uncle (another pal of ours) is married to a half-Austrian, half-Greek Roman Catholic – though both are atheists and live in Britain.
That this is unremarkable ought really to be common knowledge.
**************
Katie, earlier today, yes, that’s an excellent point about the media. I have talked to journalists, often, though not about Al Hilli-type things – and I know what you mean.
A query I raised many pages back. I just wondered about all the Libyan/Lebanese/American connections and Zaid having a prominent Irish republican name Bluebird
6 Nov, 2012 – 2:53 pm
@
Thanks for that – never knew. Amazing name coincidence – William Martin…
I wonder how many other “funerals” in high-level circumstances have involved other recycled bodies?
{http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=11429035}
Didn’t realise that the Benghazi post sit has several posts investigating Blue Mountain in the sidebar
http://benghazipost.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/blue-mountain-security-solutions-exposed.html
It’s Scotland Yard, isn’t it?
{http://scotlandyard.blogspot.co.uk/}
@Straw
64,000 Dinar question again.
@Bluebird
The Putney group is compelling.
@Q it is not an investigaton, it is a cover-up with manufactured evidence imho.
Q
6 Nov, 2012 – 3:03 pm – no doubt you notice the Rutherford popped up in the CV of Adlene Hicheur as with SAH although they didn’t overlap. SAH had stayed at this camp site previously so may have had longstanding contact arrangements. Was WBM’s house set up because of it to enable tabs to be kept?
“After completing a thesis on high energy in 2003, Hicheur was a postgraduate at the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, at Chilton, near Didcot, Oxfordshire.
Hicheur was arrested by anti-terrorist police in October 2009 at his parents’ flat on an estate on the outskirts of Lyon, in eastern France – close to CERN, which straddles the Franco-Swiss border. ‘For example – the air base at Cran-Gevrier, near Annecy, in France. This base trains troops and sends them to Afghanistan.’ Also the N African link to Maxime Ginolin/Frederic Brun – in this case Morocco.
Just wondered given his links with radical groups one of those might have been Larouche. Could there be route to secret Collider research via Mollier and Hicheur or someone else? Could the information exchange be more than zirconium but cutting edge Hadron Collider research?
French vehicle registrations.
Can anyone identify the series for the silver car(s) parked during the evening of 5 Sept at the bottom of the hill in Chevaline…
looks like O 000 HM.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1061125016&postcount=1672
Looks like the new sequence.
Re the fake crashed Pajero at Ugine, it must have been re-registered since June 2009, following re-sale. Or it’s a fake registration.
I know how much BB likes a challenge so any Larouche people figure in the Hadron or any links between Hicheur and Mollier or Al Hilli?
How much did Gary Aked get paid for his story and photo?
[http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=3ZN8Jw25KPKF_M:&imgrefurl=http://www.cash4yourstory.co.uk/french-alps-shootings-victim-had-extremist-views-sunday-mirror-newspaper-exclusive-news-story-last-week-story1238.html&docid=50wp70ki2DFesM&imgurl=http://www.cash4yourstory.co.uk/images/latest/latest_1238_508.jpg&w=160&h=147&ei=9jaZUK6KIPHB0gWKyIGAAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=761&vpy=197&dur=1492&hovh=117&hovw=128&tx=56&ty=62&sig=112092931598180586549&page=1&tbnh=117&tbnw=128&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:84]
@BB
What is your proof for that sentence? Why would you make to believe that Hasim al Hilli had ever suffered anything at all from Saddam’s henchmen?
I believe it was in an early report quoting his son, Ali, who lives in Australia. He referred also to his close ties with his slightly younger cousins Saad and Zaid who emigrated the following year (1971) and lived nearby in London.
You need to ask yourself, firstly, what can you prove as fact and, secondly, what facts can you prove are relevant to the Chevaline murders.
For instance, listing persons with the surname O’Reilly as IRA conflict victims (members of the IRA or victims of the IRA?) is both factually inaccurate (on both interpretations) and entirely irrelevant to the matter at hand.
Clearing all my finds today:-
I found this thread but due to time pressures elsewhere I havent found anything of note yet. Or even James’s handle 🙂
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/494864-car-killing-france-child-undiscovered-car-eight-hours.html