The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
James
10 Nov, 2012 – 5:48 pm – I agree the ten casings under the car are a puzzle. Of course we are not sure they WERE all under the car. We only know that Maillaud when first interviewed stated that 15 had been found, which he subsequently up dated. (Unless of course you have seen different) The additional 10 may have been accounted for in the undergrowth or inside the vehicle as some were apparently. The police will know the exact location of all of them but again they arn’t saying. Nevertheless if there were cartridges under the car I assume it can be explained by virtue of the shots being fired when the car was in the forward position, subsequently rolling back over them. However here’s the rub. If we assume the off-side shots are accounted for by the cartridges on the ground at the back, it looks as if its the near-side shots that ended up under the car. This fits. They would have been the FIRST shot if the attack came from the other end of the car park and before Al Hilli had managed to reverse. However applying the earlier logic this would mean the gun would have to eject to the RIGHT i.e. the opposite direction. Now the Luger would fit for this. Does this suggest TWO guns? One ejecting to the right on the near-side (the Luger) and to the left for the off-side shots?
Just thinking. I don’t suppose Brun owned/drove a Peugeot 306??????????????
Tim & james
Forget the casings and bullets on the scene. There was a 20 people clean team on that scene before police was allowed to investigate. God knows what they had left there to confuse. This is not a normal crime scene. There was an intelligence clean team!
The two Brun kids on Mathis facebook site are Nicolas and Alexandre.
I see that Nicolas does kids motor biking races. Alexandre is a beauty and he gets love messages from guys what he responds as love. Could be a joke, too. No more info on facebook and there are simply too many Bruns in France. Negative. Maybe you are more lucky in finding a father for them or a twitter account etc.
There indeed may have been a clean team there.
The bodies could therefore have been moved…along with the car.
BUT if that wasn’t so, my earlier explanation of the events has to be so.
The car in a further forward position towards the road.
Then reversing as Mollier was hit, the windscreen and SAH.
THEN AGAIN, Geraldine Chain reported the Forensic CHU’s arrival at 8pm (100 KMs away). Did they stop to get a bite to eat ???
By this time the press had been informed…and arrived.
Eric had given interviews…and a press release (which was later corrected) AND channel “France” was running it on their 8pm slot !
Now….from 4pm till 8pm, what happened !!!!!
Blue, do you recall where or who stated the “mob” from Paris arrived ? I think it was onlookers reporting “military types” around about 20 of them ?
That would be plenty to “alter” the area would it not ?
But if so…. why ?
Mochyn et James.. oh what a pitty- that would have been too good to be true wouldn’t it??
So we have to continue- with almost nothing (creditworth) in our hands, that’s not nice at all!!
Before I leave here for today, mind me ask a question, a general one:
I haven’t been here from the beginning, yet I can remember there had been discussions about the (final)location of the BMW.
There are pics online where the car is “parking” on different angles to the woods (to its left)
Did the police move them, or what?
So my (humble) opinion for the moment:
either – it has been a (crazy/?) person- with/-out any reason- who got the pistole from his father’s or grandfather’s drawer (but nevertheless knows how to shoot – and knowing the fact that this special wappon is not registered (due to its age) to be tracked-back.
– or it was the work of two parties, something that crossed the plans of the other (party)
The other party could also be Mr. Brun or Mr. Brett (Martin)
But then again- there are too many small incidents which don’t fit…
Grrrr… I don’t like it, when I cant get the things settled..
Have a good night – whoever might listening!
James
In security service scripts there is always a clean team removing evidence and leaving false evidence. That is normal. It is part of the prearanged script, particularly when they had produced a mess like here.
While searching for motorsports bike fan young nicolas brun i found another frederic brun. He is a journalist and james bond fan and speed fan
http://www.editionsduchene.fr/livre/frederic-brun-les-james-bond-girls-6567390.html
http://www.gearheadexchange.net/blog/2012/09/the-gearhead-library-edition-3/#more-1645
at Shelock H.
10 Nov, 2012 – 7:23 pm Brun – another cyclist?
Lets look at the clean team.
What could they do.
The press are there, the TV is there, they have bodies.
The rescue service have arrived, the “police” have arrived.
Lets imagine that the first rescue crew are real…and the clean up crew have to arrive later.
What can be done ?
Move the car ? Move the bodies ? They are on the back foot here.
I think the clean up team .com would be trying to track their man/men down and get them out of the way.
And closing down any loose strings (Brun).
The car would be left where it was…or where it ended up.
BB: so – if you’re right then we might stop with any research at all.
It’s a waste of time – even if it’s quiete interesting and improves my English as my French at the same time 😉
Meanwhile, I doubt – we might find anything useful online.
There’s absolute nothing about Mrs. Brun y Mollier available.
If there’s been a clean-team- so they might as well have cleaned the internet in advance.
So BB et all, what you mean- can we solve anything new on this topic or not???????
Once again- Gute Nacht! Sweet Dreams at all
My problem with Frederic Brun, the hairdresser from Ugine as the victim of the Pajaro ‘car crash” is that the picture that went with that strange ‘anniversaire” announcement just did not sit well with a male hairdresser. Completely the wrong appearance for a hair dresser profile (and I have known many guy hair dressers – virtually all gay and quite fussy about appearance. An obviously stocky balding man supposedly in his mid-thirties does not quite convey the spirit of haute coiffeur – does it. Could be a barber – of course, but is there enough business in such a small town for “just” a barber?
Another point: “The” frederic hairdresser is is also highly unlikely to be the one listed for the Solidarite et Progres (sp?) party; again completely wrong profile for a hair-dresser who, by the nature of the business, tend to keep their politics to themselves (that is, if they want repeat customers).
Sorry for bringing up these reservations so late in the game, but maybe now that this other frederick popped up it may be time to revisit the assignments of the links between an actual Brun – who may live at or near ugine – and the person who died in the Pajaro (anyone has a reminder link to his being frederic Brun? sorry again form my laziness if link was given – this thread is really very long to search for anything).
@ olifant 10 Nov, 2012 – 1:02 pm
“But what would be nice to know is how Solidarite et Progres have sufficient income to have staff, HQ, website, leaflets and generate supporters nationally and locally. Where does this come from? USA? Seems likely that Communist Party in Ugine would be the main beneficiary. Of which the Molliers may be supporters. Although possible scenarios of future austerity / social breakdown may be where S&P could see a future.”
For one thing, LaRouche was once imprisoned for credit card fraud – accepting donations and then using donor’s credit card for other charges. The LaRouchians are also noted as free-lance or mercenary spies, trading info to whichever side that profits them without regard to philosophy.
Because SM or family members may have been part of the LaRouchian Solidarite et Progres and also working in the nuclear industry and also involved in what appears to be an anti-nuclear radiation monitoring group does not tell us who he was “really” working for and what his core beliefs were.
Much like the ex-MI6 group Hakluyt which employed “devout environmentalists” to spy for BP and Shell.
@ James 10 Nov, 2012 – 2:23 pm
“Ken… Dutch. Many “high up” were Dutch.
Hence “Yanks”. Upwardly mobile Dutchmen in the New World. New Amsterdam. The Big Orange, not apple !”
http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/chrono-quotes.html
“Originally, it was the Genoese “Black Guelph” financier faction which controlled Genoa, Geneva, Amsterdam, and London. It was Amsterdam-linked entities such as the British East India Company, the Levant Company, and later, Barings and the Hudson’s Bay Company, which controlled the finances of monarchical England from the Stuart accession onward.”
Hi all. We had a WordPress hiccup here earlier, but I’ve tweaked the settings and it seems now to be working. Thanks to NR for reporting on a different thread.
Here is yet another threatening e-mail from Sam Rosenfeld – what I can only explain at this late date by my connecting the Mossad, what he has admitted working for, to the massacre in France, thanks to its kidon trainee, William Hershkovitz:
—– Original Message —–
From: Press (Media)
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 7:45 AM
Subject: Fwd: Legal Notice
Dear Mr Ford,
I have been issuing various take down notices to the sites on which you have posted your malicious libel and slanderous falsehoods which have no foundation in truth, which have admitted to have authored and published.
On the 06th November 2012 and the 05th November 2012 and during our recent (recorded) telephone call on the 06th November 2012 which lasted for over 10 minutes – I warned you about any further publication by of the libel will result in further action and will result in a swift formal complaint to the relevant authorities.
You are on notice that I am issuing legal proceedings against you and overs, I must now caution and warn you of the legal consequences of any further publication by you or anyone acting on your behalf.
I will shortly be writing to you and setting out the details of my claim against you.
Having contacted the Swedish authorities, I will be obtaining a copy of the file you claim to have supplied in respect of myself, I must advise you now that once I have obtained that information, I will bring further legal action against for providing false and malicious information to the Swedish Police.
Since you have not respond to my previous email communication as below, I will be forwarding a copy to your home address to enable you to adequately respond.
I trust you understand the serious nature of the pending legal proceedings and you refrain from any further publication of the malicious libel and slander.
I look forward to your acknowledgment of the communications dated as above and this email dated to day.
Kindest Regards
Sam Rosenfeld
—–Original Message—–
From: Press (Media)
To: trowbridge.ford
Sent: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:14
Subject: Fwd: Legal Notice
Dear Mr Ford,
Further to our telephone conversation of this morning which was recorded, you were advised that legal proceedings are being instigated against yourself and others.
You were further advised as to what steps were to be taken by you to avoid substantial damages being awarded against you – clearly during our telephone conversation you defended the material which you had cause to publish, further you then when on to again admit legal responsibility for the malicious libel you had written and published.
It is clear that the only course of action left open to me is to bring you before an English Court of Law seeking damages against you.
I feel that it is prudent to advise you that any judgment obtained against you, will been enforced regardless of the legal jurisdiction in which you live – further as you are resident of Sweden any UK judgment can and will be registered against you and appropriate enforcement action taken against you through the appropriate legal channel in Sweden.
I trust on this occasion you see the serious nature of what you have done, you are responsible for causing me and my family considerable distress and indeed pain and suffering by your malicious fabrications ie lies and falsehoods which can not be substantiated by you or anyone else for that matter as there is no foundation in truth.
In short you have committed, libel, slander, deformation and absolutely caused me and my family enormous detriment.
I have to witness your libel year after year being regurgitated – you yourself republished the same libelous in 2011/2011 and only last month was I yet attacked again.
Both you and others including will be hearing from me within the next 28 days – legal papers will be served on you,
Kindest Regards
Sam Rosenfeld
—–Original Message—–
From: Press (Media)
To: trowbridge.ford
Sent: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:45
Subject: Legal Notice
Dear Mr Ford,
As you are aware I have previously written to you regarding your false and malicious (libel) statements that you had caused to be published online.
Having refused to remove the offending material, I must now advise you that the material has been recently re-published.
I therefore have decided to bring a legal action against you and the other perpetrators in respect of this matter.
Proceedings will be issued at the High Court in London and served on you within the next 28 days.
A per-litigation notification will be served on you within the next 7 days.
I will therefore be in touch in due course with regard to this matter.
Kindest Regards
Sam Rosenfeld
—-
Will even post my e-mail to the Rikskriminalpolisen’s Magnus Törner if posters show any real interest in the Swedish connection to the six most unnecessary murders.
Thanks Jon and NR for getting the thread going again.
I suspect Sam Rosenfeld was the source of the problem since he uses WordPress in trying to frustrate my efforts.
Great. The blog is back. Thank you john.
Shelock
I did not say “do not investigate”
I said: there was a clean team and they are pros. Dont take everything for granted what media said. We have already proof that some reports were fake BS. Dont take every picture from the scene for granted.
Marlin
I agree that neither the picture nor the death ad for frederic brun make sense. In my opinion this was a coded message. However, he had a beauty and relaxation salon but he did not have a hairdresser salon. But still. An owner of a beauty salon you should expect to look better styled or else his customers would go elsewhere.
There are too many frederic bruns. We must find the father of nicolas and alexandre brun from mathis’ fb site. That would be a link. However, i failed doing that.
There is also another frederic brun, a journalist. He is a james bond fan and hobby pilot and he wrote a book about james bond girls and steve mcqueen biography and the frank sinatra biography!!
And look what he worked before, esp. between 1997 and 2002.
http://fr.linkedin.com/pub/fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric-brun/17/499/757
Too many inreresting frederic bruns. I failed here since i cannot filter this information and the media reports were obvious fake regarding the dead brun and his life.
Question
Do we know where SM lived? I remember that there was a media photo of his house. Did he live in Ugine or in Grignon/Albertville recently? Or else did Claire Schutz drive the distance from Ugine to Grignon twice every day?
Do you remember the picture of the ecologist brun posted yesterday? I think he was in a cycling dress there. compare the face with the b/w picture of the journalist brun on my linkedin link. isnt this the same face?
@Bluebird, you’re welcome.
@Trowbridge, I don’t think the blog was hacked. A setting was wrong that, judging from the code, probably would force WordPress to load more comments in memory than it can cope with. Normal size threads won’t exhibit this problem, but we’re nearly on 7,000 here 🙂
Jon,
Should you consider crystallizing this thread and starting a 4th as it appears that there is a lot more gas in the tank.
Sky Video, 6 Sept:
“You can imagine the scene is totally dramatic, unusual, I would even say it grossly exceeds TV fiction..”
Benoit Vinnemann, Sky News footage of press conference.
http://www.bfmtv.com/societe/chevaline-presse-britannique-une-course-a-linfo-333044.html
There is an excellent shot showing the two car parks together, that where the vehicles were found and the area at the upper hair-pin bend. I will post a still on Icke.
Sky man,Ian Woods, from helicopter above the site:
“if the mode were of a professional hit-man, how long had the family been tracked, why was this spot chosen and why did the killings happen in France rather than when they were at home in England?”
[er, Mollier lived in France… alleged killings of car occupants, in the absence of anything concrete..]
“..or are they both collateral damage of something else..” [Vinnemann]”…we’re trying to find out the truth” [Ho Ho!!!] ” ..of course there was a search for surviviors: on several occasions the doctors and police walked around the car. never could a human presence be seen in the car, but what we asked ourselves was whether [there were] bodies or injured people nearby”
Ian Woods SkyNews:“The family had become familiar to other holidaymakers [at the campsite] who raised the alarm when they still hadn’t returned late on Wednesday night…police are refusing to be rushed..”
[er, why would “other holidaymakers” not think that they were visiting friends, perhaps, in another town and staying overnight???]
Breaking news
My frederic brun is a collaborator of J B Raimond, the french minister of foreign affairs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have the french hashim al hilli here! See my linkedin link above.
And i am quite sure that he is the SAME guy – watching the two pictures – whom mochyn or sorensen had posted in connection to SM. And our Brun is a car speeding fan, too.
Quick comment on the misfortune that befell General Petraeus. The official “across-party-lines” story that’s been agreed to for Sunday morning is that even though the general and his gfs (2 known at this point) were apparently communicating via open, unencrypted emails, the FBI concluded it was a personal matter, no breach of law, no danger of a security leak or possibility of blackmail. That’s why they(contradicting previous reports) now say they didn’t notify the White House until the evening of 7 November, election day.
Well, if the emails were not secure, could not GCHQ, Russia, China, Nortel Networks up in Ottawa and anyone else with that ability intercept them. And this was going on, we suppose, back in the general’s pre-CIA days. Even if nobody bothered to blackmail Petraeus, there must have been much ROTHFLMAO in world capitals at his antics under the desk.
The CIA neglected to tell the general, when he took the post, that the only really secure communication is AOL IM. Takes an uber-hacker to read that.
ROTHFLMAO
re M. Frederic Brun, avis de deces – fake or not?
http://www.savoie-mont-blanc.com/offre/fiche/le-bochate/sitraHLO857206
Means, at least these two persons on that obituary notice do exist (should be his sister and her husband)
This is the first time I have seen this report about someone wearing wigs I don’t know if its been posted before.
I used google translate so it may not be accurate.
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2012/09/07/selon-un-voisin-le-conducteur-connu-des-services-de-renseignement-britanniques
16hr45
A witness told some journalists on Friday have crossed a white car “a bit crazy” on a road not far from the site of the massacre, shortly after the estimated time of the crime. “It was rather like a car 306 white, but in any case not a 4×4, which was anything on the road, “he told reporters this man. “They were trying to pass everyone, while traffic was light, they seemed very nervous. Initially, I thought it was two girls inside, but once they passed me, they looked weird, with weird hair, as if they wore wigs. they acted like they were fleeing, they seemed very nervous. ”
Thursday evening, a resident of Horses has also mentioned Thursday before a camera M6 a white car that would have passed through the village shortly after whirlwind time of alleged crime. “I met a vehicle traveling very quickly and took the turn at the bottom. He tried to avoid me and I on the remote side,” he told the resident. However, this woman spoke of a man “brown one”, and assured to have crossed 4:15 p.m., while the witness was presented Friday ensures seeing “to 3:45 p.m.,” a few miles further.
Pink,
Another unbelievable eyewitness account they would also know the type of underwear the 2 men with wigs were wearing. If they sat alongside each other waiting for lights to change believable. So disregard completely.
My frederic brun was 7 years advisor of the french ambassador in marocco.
He is advisor of the french director of Middle East affairs. He is advisor of the French minister of foreign affairs. He is advisor of the vice president of that magazine:
http://www.laprocure.com/album-annee-2008-perspectives-2009/9782864011286.html
This is the guy for whom james bond fan frederic brun still works as an advisor (if he is still alive). He is a hobby pilot and loves aston martin and he is keen of car speeding.
http://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bernard_Raimond
BB
What is it that makes you think this is the right FB?
Straw
Just logic. Nothing else than that. And he looks like that photo of that Brun guy that was posted in connection to SM yesterday. I know that we have no link to Ugine. However, i am convinced that the death ad was fake.
My Brun was also advisor to the founder of that society:
“Société française des amis de la Russie”
So far this is just a matter of logic, deleting all the possibly fake identity info we had received by the clean team so far, including a strange death ad with a strange picture regarding a “beauty expert”.
@Bluebird
For La Maison Mollier, see Icke.
@Shelock – I don’t understand the link…
@ Felix
There’s a notice about his death available, as ususal when a family member dies. I googled from the names given there the name of his sister. And the link is what I got.
“””……Contact
Cusin-Mermet Martial et Aurore
Tél. : 04 79 89 43 48
Tél. : 06 11 31 67 73….”””
Right?