The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
A heads up on Mollier…
He was most likely a welder.
He didnt have a degree.
He likes cycling.
He has probably never shot an arrow in his life.
He had two teenage sons from one marraige…
…and a new born child with his partner.
Nada.
@Strawberry: This thread is working only intermittently for me now. Very strange how the fatal error messages come and go.
Straw44berry
11 Nov, 2012 – 5:55 pm Newish Renault, older VW and Merc. http://news.sky.com/story/981484/france-shooting-bullet-ridden-bmw-removed shows three new Renault vans going up on the 6th I assume. “Pompes Funebres Pech 04 50 32 57 24” on the door of one. An interseting bit from Maillaud’s press conference he says that WBM sees the little girl staggering “towards the car” which differs slightly from Martin’s account to the BBC. But perhaps more significant he states twice, that “He went around the car and found the French cylist on the ground”. He reinforces the point by saying “He goes around the OTHER side of the car” to smash the window. This places Mollier over the blood stain on the near side of the car, as I have suggested and differs from Martins account that Mollier was the first thing he saw as he came up the road. Obviously he couldn’t have seen Mollier until he had actually passed the front of the car at the very last moment. This confirmation therefore repeats the question of why he would he would possibly move him when (a) he was dead and (b) he was in no danger from the car even if he had been alive. Also why every early report put a sprawled Mollier on the OTHER side of the car.
Jon, what’s up with the truncated pages and some pages disappearing entirely, then reappearing? The problem is not fixed.
Shelock
The brother must be Roland Brun from Mont Dessus Ugine. THERE He lives together with grandma Margueritte Brun. No idea about why he was not mentioned on the death notice.
Tim V
I think most of us believed SM was drivers side because of the corner of the blueish tarp being opened by the shrubbery drivers side just visible in photos.
Shelock – was working on previous page here without seeing your translation of Avis de Deces of F. Brun. Which explains who Bernard was companion to. ie his compagne / partner who died last year. The long gap between Christainne and la compagne misled me. Family want her memory to be recalled. Suggestion of being companion ‘of Frederic’ must therefore be withdrawn. Frederic was child of Catherine Boscardin sa maman and of Bernard Brun son papa both of whom subsequently gained different partners, Daniel David (for his mother Catherine) and Chrisitianne (for his father. Does this mean Catherine reverted to use of her original family name after parting from Bernard?
Maybe, if the technical problems are due to the length of the thread, there should be a third thread on this subject? It’s like an Arthurian epic. Very soon, I expect Morgana Le Fay to make an entrance! Or perhaps, she is already here…
Cheers, Bluebird- go and have a good rest in your nest.
BTW: May be Frederic Brun had a girlfried – named Marie.
As this is named at the end of the annonce – without any direction given who she is.
Would be a lovely idea – not to forget her to mention.
But – beside having the proof the ad wasn’t a fake- it doesn’t brings us really further….
We don’t still don’t know what he did for his income.
Me, privately, as he really was in cosmetics, don’t see him in the “nuclear” branche.
You?
That all wouldn’t exclude him as a possible victim or collaborateur in the crime who had to be removed.
goodnite at all!!
Hi all. Craig just alerted me, so I’m tinkering under the bonnet. Think it should be okay now!
FYI, the problem is just this thread, and yep, definitely due to its length. 7,000+ is impressive.
Q: if your posts were saved okay at the time, they won’t be lost – the database is fine. But let me know if anything is missing, of course.
Olifant
– could be that she returned to her maiden name??
I did it- so why not she 😉
Not tooo important, anyway.
at Tim V
11 Nov, 2012 – 7:29 pm sorry should read “come down 24 hours after shooting”
@james Can we add to this list? Helpful to clarify the known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns. The latter are the majority. The list should be the first group and some from the second.
A heads up on Mollier… background info re lifestyle and occupation.
He was most likely a welder.
An ouvrier fondeur, blue collar foundry worker, worked le trois huit, ie shift worker.
He supported the Left United list, was probably a Communist supporter.
He worked for Areva Cezus, manufacturer of Zirconium cladding and Hafnium.
He lived in white house near church, junction of Ave Dr Chavent / Rue Charriere
He was 45
His Dad was well known locally via Rugby Club and Politics
He and his family well known in the town which has clammed up around them
He didnt have a degree.
He did not make many entries on Internet websites. No picture has been found.
His family may have been working class and not great users of the web
He likes cycling. Member of Ugine Cycle Club
He has probably never shot an arrow in his life.
He had two teenage sons from one marraige… (ex wife – hairdresser)
…and a new born child with his partner. (pharmacy owner nearby village)
He had taken paternity leave, 3 years was planned, but has to be renewed yearly.
correct me if I’m wrong. And were there any links to more well placed persons? Bianco? or interest shown re Iran or Israel/Arabs or immigration etc (as in FN)
later installment could list details about the day leading up to Marinet.
Olifant
Yep, I think a list should be made (and like you continued there).
However, he just seems like a “normal Joe” thus far, which he may probably have been…BUT I just don’t know about this three year leave bit. It must be a typo ?
As in, why would he get leave (paternity) 2 years and 3 months before Claire gets pregnant….and “goodness knows” how long after his two other children were born.
Other than that, the list should serve to clarify who Mr Mollier was…and was not.
just a start…. there are others who may think there more known knowns to be added to the list. Or strike out some listed on it.
maybe some link to areas of interest may some up. There are quite a few names from the Maghreb in the Annuaire Inverse 118712 list of subscribers in Ugine. So far such names have not come up. Any suggestion of potential for interest of subversive contacts from intelligence agencies? Nothing shown up AFAIAA. as you say seems an ordinary kind of person. As the deputy mayor said (M. Chevallier) a well liked quiet person, loved cycling etc. Anything with potential to disagree with that so far? OTOH conspiracies do happen and bith Mossad and Iran are both under a lot of pressure just now.
re paternity leave. think its clear that baby Louis was born well before June. has been remarked that he looked about 6 months old. That would allow CS to have gone back to work, main earner. And SM to start claiming Paternity Leave. No?
Welding and its importance in the nuclear fuel chain:
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/nuclear_fuel_fabrication-inf127.html
http://us.areva.com/EN/home-111/areva-federal-services-mox-fuel-fabrication-facility.html
http://www.areva.com/EN/operations-925/areva-inc–richland-nuclear-fuel-production.html
http://www.wise-uranium.org/epusaf.html
From last link:
“Workers Exposed To Hydrogen Fluoride (HF) Release
On Oct. 23, 2006, two workers were exposed to HF leaking from a cracked weld of conversion process line 3. One of the two workers was subsequently hospitalized for exposure to HF vapor. On October 26, 2006, evidence of a second crack was found in the weld near the original crack in the line 3 equipment. The licensee shut down line 3 conversion operations.
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission staff is scheduled to meet with representatives of AREVA NP, Inc. on Thursday, April 12, 2007, to discuss apparent violations of agency requirements involving a small hydrogen fluoride release at the company’s Richland, Wash., facility in late October 2006.”
Yep, the baby Louis doesn’t look a “new born” of a few months.
Maybe a little older, but I’m no expert.
But the (possible typo) says three years, not months.
I can’t see it being three years unless there is another issue.
That needs to be looked into.
One thing that we have looked into here…is that Mollier doesn’t appear to have been a hunter.
And after months of work conducted by people on here, we still don’t know much about Mollier (but we know what he wasn’t).
Does AREVA use its own welders when building new nuclear facilities?
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Y6doBwC0CqkJ:www.areva.com/news/liblocal/docs/Breves/BR-2011-Hybrid%2520laser-arc%2520welding-EN.pdf+areva+welders&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh2afFrhyIMtW4hhoq-1B8vnFb6etPYV9_L23WoFV3qitgt-qa64-AwLzu8Hby6pdgwEN7G18utaMHroA7eAF0R_uEcjN-314nBtneWa_w1m0KfoPHh5mTErrEpa9DoVLGwXCsz&sig=AHIEtbSPS0uI9q6zccZ9Q1PrCGsVHkcXWw
New hybrid laser arc weld at AREVA.
This could be our frederic brun. Parents live in chambery.
He could be either that or the beauty salon owner, or both. But Chambery is a hot guess.
http://www.linternaute.com/restaurant/restaurant/109586/l-evencio-best-western-alexander-park.shtml
our mollier is a cyclist and probably has a cyclist’s physique – lithe even at 45?
Could it be that the new laser arc welding technology systems will require fewer workers, or workers with a more technical background?
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8l0pLgmweGEJ:nuclearfabrication.org/nfc/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/CSC11-NFC-Fall-Meeting.pdf+laser+arc+welding+at+areva&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiyaaRqMZ9SaNABVrkai_CIbQthzlc0tZtMFZtRsLXCLNegBu9q7GyfV8lEvo9GIo9dtsfVSljugoztrhceGJ5ybZNVrqm2cMim4ipCLRKgYvYrQdWUQv3BZcPkXjh_myZKPCzf&sig=AHIEtbTpLiBqkmiHE-I7SZ8yKTq4hWu27g
Yea I saw that and made the same assumption. If so it’s where WBM dragged him. Bur WHY? And why did all the news outlets put him there when shot rather than where he actually was? My conclusion is that Martin was anxious (possibly in panic) to camouflage the fact that Mollier was where he was which rather proved he was interacting with the Al Hilli’s as Zainab was also there even though SAH was back inside the car. That he felt it necessary to significantly alter the crime scene says something very profound – that WBM was not just an innocent bystander who happened to stumbled on a massacre, but was actually aware of and party to the significance of a Mollier/ Al Hilli relationship being proved by their respective locations. Once the body had been moved to its new position it was necessary to invent a narrative that was consistent. So somewhere between his report to Maillaud and his BBC interview, the story had changed from seeing Zainab first and Mollier second BEHIND the car, to seeing Mollier first in front of the car and Zainab staggering, second.
sorry that was in reply to Straw44berry 11 Nov, 2012 – 9:16 pm
LOL @
Suhayl Saadi
11 Nov, 2012 – 9:23 pm
a little light relief is always welcome. bit like a delivery of doughnuts to Miami Vice
Thanks Olifant
11 Nov, 2012 – 9:56 pm – it helps.
Tim
But then why did Al Hilli have the car in reverse ?
Someone firing from the front ?
Something (someone) in front of his vehicle ?
He hasn’t reversed form the other part of the carpark. That as we now doesnt fit.
mmmmm Q
11 Nov, 2012 – 11:07 pm the sort of leading technology that could be of great use to the Iranians. there are always important bits of the technology with held for obvious reasons that need filling in that a welder might be able to supply. SM appears eminently susceptible/in need of to offers of money, new child and off work for 3? years and all?