The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Anyway where is Zaid these days. When did he last check in anywhere?
Ferret,
After a couple of days the extraction scenario being possible hit me between the eyes and I have favoured ever since. But eyes open for anything that indicated I was barking up the wrong tree. I even said to Anders I thought SAH and co were back in Iraq he could see it as a possibility (Anders still 90% on Mossad)but chose Acapulco as destination of choice. I said they both seem like war zones right now.
SM not being cremated jolts my belief that he could have been extracted, why not let the family ‘cremate’ problem solved. So to me, I thought he could be the only victim. If that is the case I put BM as prime suspect and SAH as 2nd choice for murderer if SM came armed.
I do think the 30 seconds of gunfire that was heard was either firing in the air or into an empty car.
I also think the family may have arrived almost an hour earlier and the witnesses suggesting a later arrival are part of the ‘fairytale’.
I think the live al-hilli’s had to stay in the car for some time before removal and that the children couldnt be relied on to do that so had to be removed sooner. If SM was killed perhaps Zainab did get some blood on her on perhaps it was put on her may get the desired freaking out. Zeena’s story is pure…hocum to put it nicely. She was under the pile of bodies in a footwell with bullets randomly fired all over the car. If that’s the case she has one hell of a guardian angel.
A bit of fresh thinking “outside the box” is always a good idea in trying to piece together catastrophic events after the fact Ferret 12 Nov, 2012 – 2:07 pm, but I can’t really go with your suggestion that the whole thing was a hoax to spirit away the main characters.
First there is the question of identification by family members. Would both families go along with the charade? They would need a damn good reason to do so, particularly as two orphans would be involved. Also Mollier (45) is just starting a new phase of his life with baby. What would persuade him to go along with it? There are the first fire responders, police and doctor you would have to rope in though I do find it amazing that even at that very early stage, somehow even the doctor was prevented from checking for signs of life with the occupants of the car – and signs of life there certainly was, though admittedly not in the three adults! Then there are the independent undertakers presumably (3 vehicles), the ambulance crew (x2), helicopter crew and the occupants of all the other official vehicles seen visiting. This would require organisation and cover-up on a monumental scale not to mention the need to find other matching bodies to take the place of the “disappeared”.
However, having said that, I think we can now determine with some degree of confidence that (sadly) neither the word of WBM or EM can be wholly relied upon for an accurate account of what happened. Why? Because it can be clearly shown they contradict one another, and contradict the self evident facts.
EM’s corrections, ambiguities and “inexplicables” speak for themselves: saying Zainab was dead! when she wasn’t; the number of bullets from 15 to 25; one gun to two guns; three with two head shots later all four; the number of shots to Mollier (we still do not know for sure); one gun to two guns back to one; planned attack by several to one lone crazed gunman; Skorpion to Luger P08 – which it couldn’t be anyway because it’s a 9mm; the 4 wheel drive being unidentifiable then many weeks later apparently located as a forestry vehicle, but no explanation why it should take so long and why the crew saw nothing when they were there at the very time the crime took place(!); and then of course the famous call at 3.48 contradicted by Martin and still not explained. I am sure there more examples that put his credibility/competency rating at just about zero but I will stop there.
As for WBM he may be a good chap, he may have been genuinely shocked by what he saw but his testimony is not only difficult to believe in places, his actions are inexplicable and his description of them factually inaccurate. The fascinating question remains why he did what he did and why change the account of what he did?
If indeed his role at the scene was more than unfortunately and innocently “stumbling on the scene” as we suspect, these discrepancies take on far greater meaning because they are the shrouded signposts to his role and their demise.
I will leave aside all the variations of his journey and arrival time, which in different accounts stretches from 3.30 to 4.00 pm, or of his poor recollection of vehicles and Mollier and precisely where they passed him, up and back, or his justification for leaving little Zainab twice in potential danger, or his failure to look inside the vehicle to check for signs of life, whilst deciding to move the dead Mollier who was beyond danger in both senses.
The critical bit of his story that MUST be untrue is his quite definite account that the FIRST thing he saw was Mollier and his bicycle out front, followed by Zainab “staggering”, “as if playing with her sibling” (later suspiciously dropped). This could not be true because as the admittedly flaky Millaud states no less than THREE times in an early press conference, Mollier’s body lay on the far side of the car and this is corroborated by the distinctive blood stain on the ground pictured the next day from the air.
Why then did he take the trouble to drag the dead weight of Mollier to the other side when any fool would recognise his chief concern should be for the injured but still living Zainab? Why should all the papers be briefed with the lie that Mollier was first found where Martin placed him, not where he was shot? Why in the interview did he quite intentionally give the impression he was calm and composed when PD states categorically he was “in a panic” when they met? If true, the events took him by surprise, and a panicking hero was clearly not in his brief, which he was anxious to later conceal.
Finally, as regards his phone, why did he very consciously not support Millaud’s account that it was he who rang at 3.48, thus driving a “cart and horses” through the official script and leaving an unanswered conundrum even to this day. Why even if his phone did not work did he not use it to take photographs? Don’t tell me it was an old Nokia.
Tim,
Extraction means lots of people get involved in the charade.
There are 100+ police involved if this is a legitimate murder scene, then 100+ police are involved in not investigating properly.
100s of press publications choosing not to query the varying bullet counts in each victim. Zainab has been shot up to 3 times with a fractured skull yahdi yahdi. This appears to be involving 1000s willing to not remember facts from 1 day to the next.
I wouldn’t be tooo surprised to learn one day that M. Maillaud resigned due to the fact he’s having an affaire …
😉
TimV:
There had been a report from the german “stern” that he’d paused uphill to take pics…
😉
Oh yes, there could be some connections.
http://www.france24.com/en/20121110-iraq-multibillion-dollar-arms-deal-russia-corruption-concerns
Russia’s minister of defense had to resign last week (officially due to an ex-marital affair), inofficially because of corruption. So what is al Maliki telling officially?
His girlfriend is no longer in Russia, she went abroad ….
I mean, didn’t the chief of CIA resign because of a girlfriend, too? And the CEO of Lockheed Martin because of an ex-marital affiar, too? All of them last week?
Wasn’t SAH a CIA asset and was he the contact for Iraq? But who were the Russians?
There was a lot of money at stake and there was certainly a fight between givernments, mobsters and intelligence services for getting hand on that money and on that weaponry deal in particular, forgetting all those kickbacks and bribaries that had already been paid (in the end unsuccessfully) to various people in advance. Don’t take bribery money from Russians and then don’t deliver what you had promised. They might kill you.
@Straw
Hit you right between the eyes, eh?!
Tee hee.
😀
Seriously though, good to have some support, and yes, I remember the discussion in the early days with you and Anders — clearly you both beat me to it.
I’m not sure how long it’s been brewing with me, I must admit at first I thought it was a completely crack-pot idea but, like someone said yesterday (CD was it you?) I eventually got to that “???” moment when the contradictions were driving me nuts… and this sorted them out, sort of.
There are some hard bits to explain, but at least the maddening contradictions go away, so that’s a better fit in my book.
I agree with pretty much everything you say about how it could have happened, including gunfire in the air, or into the car, possibly empty or perhaps already loaded with dead bodies – or a combination.
And don’t forget the poor cow which took one in the head too!
🙂
I must say it would be just *too* ironic if BM were the man “wot dunnit” – now that *would* be “hidden in plain sight”, would it not?
And a strange parallel with JFK where Oswald gets just one appearance with the media…
All just my opinion, of course…
@Tim V
I really do not understand why you keep saying lots of people had to be involved if it was an extraction? It didn’t require many “in the know”, as I have posted twice now to explain.
If the bodies were real, but embalmed (and not the Al Hilli’s) who would have noticed the difference at the scene? As you say the first responders were all kept away, and the heat cameras in the helicopters showed zilch.
And remember Zainab was originally reported dead too so maybe even her very dead body-double was airlifted to hospital (where she made a “miracuous recovery”.
And remember not much blood/brains in the car? Some in the car park, possibly from SM if he was the only victim, as Straw and I are theorising. Or possibly that’s faked too, with eg real blood from somewhere else, presumably easy to obtain if you are a secret service.
So no police or ambulance need be in on the story. And undertakers are removing dead bodies – what’s to tell?
Only DGCE need be involved, plus the pathologist (if any) plus possibly Maillaud, and perhaps a DGCE “hospital team” to deal with Zainab and her “injuries”. It’s not even that many DGCE staff, if you think about it – ten or twenty, max?
Everyone else is just doing their job. Ideally you would NOT tell Maillaud about it so he does his job even better, but remember his odd “it’ll take a decade to solve” quote? Odd – unless he knows something.
Re your question about what would have persuaded SM to go along with it, agreed it’s difficult. Maybe they didn’t, or couldn’t – and perhaps that’s why he got shot? Who knows. If he felt his life was in imminent danger (like SAH) then perhaps he would have been motivated strongly enough? Hard to countenance a dad leaving his newborn child (and two other children) I agree – but stranger things have happened.
Of course you don’t have to believe this idea, but it certainly doesn’t take a lot of people “in the know”.
Will read the rest of your long response in a bit – got to do some other stuff now…
Very good article that links LaRouche and “Right Wing Bolshevism” directly to the Russian secret service SRV and Putin (reading that interesting article below is much recommended to understand LaRouche and its ideology better):
http://www.jrnyquist.com/Right_Wing_Bolshevism_2.html
So then, were the LaRouche guys the Russian side in that weaponry deal? But then, who did represent the interest of Lockheed Martin and CIA? And what were the Brits and MI6 doing about that inconvenient deal? I am sure that the Queen apparently “wasn’t amused”, and some London based mobsters probably wanted to get their share out of such a multi billion weaponry deal, too. Was Lockheed Martin somebody bribing, too? Oh no, the Americans won’t do that, LOL.
I am pretty much convinced that Annecy, the retirement of the CIA chief and the Russian minister of defence, plus Annecy, and that crashed weaponry deal, are having a close relation.
Tim V
The acute angle shown in the lower of the 2 aerial photos in this DM article is what I was trying to show. The front of the car is definitely slightly towards the village and the rear nearside is flat/in the soft gravel.
More on the LaRouche-Putin “love affair” where Britain and the MI6 and the other London based mobsters are their main targets.
Particularly the last sentence in this first blog entry in that link below should create high “alert flags” to all of us here on this blog!
There is a secret service war going on with LaRouche&Putinas the love team on one side versus the MI6/+ their London Mobsters group/and CIA team on the other side. It’s about money, weaponry deals and influence in Middle East, North Africa, Iran and Caucasus. Currently they only fight with their agents one versus one. In due course, they will probably use their martial war weapons in a real world war.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message587621/pg1
The key to this case in tracing financial transactions and access to bank accounts.
SAH knew he was under threat. So why did he bring his family with him? Because he was afraid to leave them behind. He thought they would be safer if they were with him. At least then he could control the situation. Sadly he was wrong.
BTW some of you might have a field day when you discover that Abiodun David John was sharing the house with his Mum and a Czech/Slovak/Russian girl – I’ll leave it to you guys to work out which nationality.
Roger
John David from Nigeria is just a scammer. He is nothing here but (if it is him or perhaps his emails were hacked, but I guess that the British police had more evidence than just an email address) that John David A. is just a scammmer and just one of the rats who come once the victims are dead. I guess that we can forget him. The account info of the al Hilli family he most likely received from another scammer linked to the 155 Notting Hill Gate company or from a scammer linked to their Malaga branch, where we have another scammer name sitting in their office (and surprisingly a lot of scammers money flows to Spain). That is another part of fraud that has no relation with the al Hillis. Waste of time to investigate into that direction in my opinion. That’s simply just a rat not linked to the event at all.
I found another thing today, look at the timeline:
http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2012/10/21/iraq-signs-3bn-deal-for-f-16-fighter-jets/
Big Iraqi weaponry deals. One cancelled, a chief of defense ministry resigned plus a CIA chief resigned. How much money was paid inofficially into various hands and how many people had to die who had received that information of bribary in those two deals and who wanted perhaps to stop that bribary and blackmailing?
SAH had the Iraqi info about bribary and SM was the LaRouche/Putin representative ……..
That’s by far bigger than any nuclear deals could be. 8 billion US$ ….. Far too much money at stake for becoming interrupted by somebody who did believe in the GOOD and HONEST SIDES of people. The timeline of recent events is speaking for itself.
One more thing. I found this link a long time back with a mention of Sylvain. It is a left wing anti-liberal grouping. I didn’t think it related to the case but you guys may be able to dig something out of it:
http://caugvalence.blogspot.com
Valence is about 200km from the area. Not far in French terms.
@Tim V
Re the rest of your reply, you make some very good points re the inaccuracies and inconsistencies of BM and EM.
There are too many for me to respond to right now but basically “yes” to pretty much everything.
Bear in mind that some of the confusion re eg weapons is introduced through papers repeating “sources close to the investigation”, whatever that means – and that Maillaud complained about this and said it was not him that was saying stuff.
Not sure if I’d stop to take photos if I thought the shooter(s) might still be in the area though!
But basically it’s enough contradictions to confuse anyone!
EM’s corrections, ambiguities and “inexplicables” speak for themselves: saying Zainab was dead!
Though of course this would fit perfectly with the extraction scenario, with a dead body substituted for Zainab…
In fact, it’s a complete give-away if we take it at face value. How could experienced first responders make such a huge mistake? (I’m sure Maillaud went on their word rather than make this up.)
Extraction? What does the aunt in Reading, or soemwhere in SE England, forget quite where, who has applied for custody of the two girls, do? They are supposed to be with good English foster parents and the aunt has visited them and agrees but said it wasnt the appropriate place for two Muslim girls to be. She has seen the girls in England. A male relative spoke for her. Would this be extraction gone badly wrong? Knowing Al Hilli loved his girls… Wouldn’t agree to go without them. The Al Hilli family as whole could be expected to probe this. Not able to be hushed up?
Realistically then SAH is the one with connections that are of concern. Iraqi money. Swiss bank. SSTL technology. RAL particle physics. Lasers. Shia visited QOM. Connections to Hizbollah supporters? to Baathists? etc All these became apparent. Not so Sylvain Mollier. No connection noticed so far to local Islam, to local Muslims or to the Mosque (at ZI Les Mouilles by D1508, Route d’Annecy, Ugine) not the hunter, not the anti nuclear person, etc etc.
SAH – the person of concern. Martinet the rendezvous. WBM – the watcher, hence the meandering cycle ride prior to climbing the Combe. House in village – watcher 2. A N Other – contact for high tech data transfer, or money transfer, or local FN person with grandad’s weapon in a drawer. If it was the latter maybe SM recognised him and rushed to stop him. If the former then “teach a lesson”, violent acts, stop anyone else trying to doublecross. Again a brave person might step in…
I’m with you Kempe & others that think extraction is not viable. It’s not only bizarre its a conspiracy too far.
To believe that:
Over 100 police.
Morticians
Embassy staff
2 children
Pilots
Dr’s
BM
Relatives
Customs
CIA
Mi5
French government
Witnesses
To believe they could all stay schtum is over estimating human nature it’s just too ridiculous.
It also over estimates the importance of these people.
Sorry Straw44berry 12 Nov, 2012 – 3:38 pm I can’t follow your parking reasoning at all. I agree the angle has been reduced from about 120 to say 80 degrees when the loader is there but I don’t see this as a particular problem or have much of a significance on the shooting. It’s quite possible when he arrived he did a big sweep one way or the other or a three point turn heading towards Chevaline, then a reverse manoeuvre back into the lower part of the lay-by. I estimate there is about 5 metres between the front of the car and tarred road surface, so quite adequate to be set back a couple of metres still allowing three for the reverse travel when under attack.
Why would you perform an “extraction”, under the cover of a massacre ?
A car crash maybe. But a massacre of a family in a remote woodland carpark. That will certainly make worldwide headlines, which it did.
Yup Felix
12 Nov, 2012 – 3:50 pm and where (apart from this latest cheque business) are the Surrey Police? Not a SQUEEK from them. And so far not a squeek from the local MP Dom Raab either despite the following from his profile:
“He is particularly interested in the Middle East, having studied and worked in Israel and the West Bank, and travelled around Egypt and Pakistan. In 1998, Dom spent a summer at Birzeit university (near Ramallah), and worked for one of the principal Palestinian negotiators of the Oslo peace accords, assessing World Bank projects on the West Bank.”
Hi..Feels like the part in Casablanca..they say..round up the usual suspects, it could be RED herring..
yes DJ Abidon might be a scammer..but I believe this one he tried to use a phone versus pc..we do not know really how many phones Al-hilli had in the car that day. he may have had several for different purposes…just as he had allegedly several fake wills the info on it can be taken out of that easily whether used by itself or not.
But..what I found curious was his partner or other occupants particularly.. is a 29 year old employee of the British American Tobacco Company, and she is originally from the Russian federation.The other Gloria Abiodun is in 60s so prob his mother.
Zuzana Ondrusova
based on a people address search.
she is multingual has friends from SA, Italy, one I saw from France..
http://ru.linkedin.com/pub/zuzana-ondrusova/b/970/909
It may mean nothing..as these companies come and go..
She was listed as director of a dissolved company Zenith Music ltd…I checked both limited nd ltd both dissolved..
There were several Zuzana Ondrusova
http://www.facebook.com/zuzana.ondrusova.96
.odd that none listed uk as residence but..as a mgmt trainee in global company..then and multilingual..transfers are the norm for that kind of talent and for being in uk..but something not feel right..an illegal could easily get the id above and use for self..
So no history of Zenith on the linkedin ..
I think this is the same..places emphasis on language dexterity.
http://www.facebook.com/zuzana.ondrusova.96
Yes we discussed this earlier Shelock H.
12 Nov, 2012 – 4:30 pm. The Stern report is based on what though as it was never mentioned before by anybody as far as I know. Martin’s arrival time seems to be a “moveable feast” dependent on what it is trying to fit. However if the stern report is Kosher it means that he had a camera on him or could it be these days just a camera on his mobile phone. Either way it would indeed be highly strange if having confirmed he took it out AFTER inspecting and doing at the crime scene, he didn’t think to take some photographs of the scene don’t you think? This is a highly trained fighter pilot after all. Is the no mention of photo’s an indication he didn’t think or was too scared to take them, or just that he hasn’t revealed the fact to us?
Tim V
My reasoning that he reversed down the road some distance at speed into that position would explain angle and reversing to far into the loose material by the bank. Seems the simplest way for it to happen. KISS
Sys
Ondrusova isn’t a Russian name. Her name is 100% Czech or Slovakian origin. Since she states that she speaks Slovak, I would strongly guess that she is from Bratislava, Slovakia. There are at least 20.000 Slovaks working in the UK. Yes, she seems to be a very clever girl, but there are many clever girls from former Eastern Europe working in the UK. Speaking Russian doesn’t make her a spy in a James Bond movie by default …..
Are you sure that they are sharing the same flat there or is that a house with e.g. several different flats where the people living there do know each other simply because of saying “good morning” when they are accidentatlly meeting each other when leaving the house in the morning?
Hi Blue I justs said Russian federation and spoke slavic, italian, english etc.. from the pic in the paper of dj looks like a childs finges on face..like a baby..could be wrong..but looks white or mixed..
Flat 4 38 Alban Street
Salford
England
M7 1NQ
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=Flat+4+38+Alban+Street+Salford+England+M7+1NQ&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x487bb1d48e6fc8bf:0xa6d8c855e3040350,38+Alban+St,+Salford+M7+1NQ,+UK&gl=us&sa=X&ei=V1ahUOubKYrI9QTSh4HoBw&ved=0CC4Q8gEwAA
What is odd yesterday the same facebook had blondish.reddish hair woman..today i go back..same data different face.
since a neighbor can tap into ones wifi if a pc used..then they can do amazing things even if parked across street. Or a nanny can get all info from house…write down numbers..swipe cards if in open…perhaps when saad changed lock he experienced something missing..something out of place, maybe a missing phone..but he never told neighbor if he see brother going in call police.
I try not to throw DJ out too fast..ibut its a judgemnt call..I am slow person..
because Someone following our research and adapting fast as you enter as was discussed Intelligence can do that..but not a simple criminal.So i do not take Red herring lightly..if we catch mistake..then for sure info is planted…
.
Sys, does he live in flat 4, too?
There are at least 20 flats in 38 Alban street. I saw that house on google street view. It#s a huge 4 storey building.
I don’t rule anything out, sys. However, she is a young girl and she’s obviously a very clever one who makes a lot of money in her job. Also it seems, due to her facebook page, that she is currently not even living in London but in Moscow.
To me, that guy – whoever did it – is one of those rats who are trying some easy money by scamming and deceiving and he is part of a Nigerian scammer mafia. There is also a quite logic reason about how they could get the account data of the al Hillis easily nsince their connection goes to Spain/Malaga and we have alraedy had a link in that very special money transfer house in Malaga with the al Hillis. He perfectly fits into this picture as one of those scammer rats.
@Katie
Yes, but is it really “a conspiracy too far”?
Let’s take a detailed look at all the people you think must have been “in the know” and would have had to “stay schtum” as you put it.
Over 100 police
The police were frozen out of the crime scene for 8 hours until the specialist team from Paris arrived. Strict instructions not to touch anything. Who was in this Paris team and what did it do? The ordinary plod didn’t get a look in until the specialists had cleaned up (and possibly only after the 20-strong UK spook squad had had a go, too).
So no, the “over 100” ordinary police wouldn’t have known anything, and were only doing their job.
Morticians
Not sure which “morticians” you mean here. People taking them away in hearses? Why? What would they have seen that would have alerted them? Dead bodies???
Embassy staff
Which Embassy staff? The 20 “military types” the UK sent from Paris? These were the spooks, for goodness sakes!
The deputy Ambassador who visited Zainab in hospital? Generally I think high-ranking diplomats can safely be counted on to do whatever their secret service tells them to do. (Craig is the exception which proves the rule.) Let me know if you disagree.
2 children
What would they have had to do, exactly? Nothing. They have been sequestered since the event with no contact with the outside world (media etc). So again, they need to know nothing, and don’t have to pretend anything to anyone.
Pilots
Which pilots? Who’s flying here, Katie? The medevac team? They evacuated someone who was initially reported as dead by Maillaud. Apparently she made a miraculous recovery. Again, what would they have had to know? Nothing.
Dr’s
I already answered this one – could have been a specialist DGSE team, posing as specialist medics. Mind you I’m not satisfied with my answer but it is an answer of sorts.
BM
And what would he have had to know exactly? (Even if he is telling the truth, which is hardly credible, IMO.) He found a crime scene which he said looked like a movie set. He claimed Zainab was alive. PD said she was dead. Who’s telling the truth here? The officials pronounced her dead too. Until she (Lazarus-like) arose from the dead.
Relatives
Which ones would have to have be “in the know”, and why? None, as far as I can see.
Customs
Que? How did they get into your list? What would they have had to have known, and why?
CIA
Ditto. Think they can keep a secret though.
Mi5
Ditto. Think they can keep a secret too, though. (I like the small “i” for intelligence!)
French government
Yes, well noticed, I did say the DGSE would have been the ones conducting the plot. Glad you picked that up. If it was “extra-curricular”, then the government need not have known about it (or perhaps not all sections of government).
Witnesses
Oh yes, the 100s of eye-witnesses to the crime… NOT. Which witnesses?
So, erm… once again, Katie, where exactly are all these 100s of people who would have “had to have been in the know”?
The way I see it, the only thing that is “just too ridiculous” (as you put it) is your list.
@Oliphant
You raise a good point, re the aunt who has applied for custody of the two girls. Don’t think it scuppers extraction though, it could fit in to a possible reunion some years later or who knows what. The girls might not know what happened to their parents (for their own good).
Look if ( * IF * ) this is true it’s horrible – but it’s a lot less horrible than having their parents gunned down in front of them, n’est pas? So why would it be so inconceivable for that reason alone?
And yes, SAH loved his girls, and would be desperate not to part with them. But his hand may have been forced, either by imminent death threats to him (as we are told he was afraid of) or for other reasons.
I’m certainly not saying he did it for fun.
Realistically then SAH is the one with connections that are of concern. Iraqi money. Swiss bank. SSTL technology. RAL particle physics. Lasers. Shia visited QOM. Connections to Hizbollah supporters? to Baathists? etc All these became apparent.
Yes and again yes. And don’t forget yer satellites!
Not so Sylvain Mollier. No connection noticed so far to local Islam, to local Muslims or to the Mosque (at ZI Les Mouilles by D1508, Route d’Annecy, Ugine) not the hunter, not the anti nuclear person, etc etc.
Yes – but he could have had access to either technical secrets or restricted materials such as Zirconium or Hafnium, and/or may have had knowledge or access to other rare and interesting things Cezus might have cooked up in the R&D lab. People talk to each other, especially in a small place like Ugine, so it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility, and we should be careful not to rule him out without hard evidence.
SAH – the person of concern. Martinet the rendezvous. WBM – the watcher, hence the meandering cycle ride prior to climbing the Combe. House in village – watcher 2. A N Other – contact for high tech data transfer, or money transfer, or local FN person with grandad’s weapon in a drawer. If it was the latter maybe SM recognised him and rushed to stop him. If the former then “teach a lesson”, violent acts, stop anyone else trying to doublecross. Again a brave person might step in…
All completely possible… as has already been posted here before…
How about this guy for a body double for SAH?
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/attachment/xavier/
Xavier Baligant
Shot through the back of the head with a high-powered rifle, apparently. His face must have had a big hole in it…
Just a guess… may be so, maybe not.
But it was nearby, and there is a passing resemblance.
Of course, weight and height would have to have been similar and we can’t tell that from this photo. Ages were quite different but that wouldn’t necessarily matter unless there was a marked difference in appearance.
@Roger
12 Nov, 2012 – 5:52 pm
There is a Fabienne Mollier as well as Sylvain Mollier.
Could this Fabienne be connected to SM? Or to the other “SM” that Olifant suggest?
Probably easy for BB et all to chk.