The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Did anyone check my pictures at 11.21 all I want is someone to say
whether they think these two pictures could be the same family?
@ Pink 10.26 pm
Brutally murdered not facially recognisable therefore blood everywhere. I have to recommend BMWs for their no stain glass where even spattered blood in such quantitities fails to show at all.
Hello Strawberry why is noone saying what they think I happened on the photo of Anthony Mollier whilst searching and not long before looked at the picture of Xavier Baligant linked higher up the thread at first sight I thought it was the same person and then I wondered if they could be related ,I just want to know if anyone else thinks they look alike or is it just me ?
@ James 11pm
The massacre ‘story’ being cover for extraction does seem unlikely but perhaps that wasnt their first plan. I would think having the car catch fire may be high on the list of a way to cover up an extraction, but perhaps because of the location, time of year, fire risk in the upland woodlands this was an ‘easier’ way.
On French discussion boards I have seen the disbelief of it taking until midnight for them to arrive from Paris. Did they use the slow boat from China? (Almost been there and done that myself)
I dont think ‘it went to plan’ as the request for 20+ from Britain suggests. So I am inclined to think that SMs murder was actual. Perhaps he was supposed to be extracted too and said ‘No, I love my little baby and Claire too much’.
If this was the plan they for sure need better planners.
Leo’s ‘Life goes on’ tweet does have 2 ways to read it for sure. Apathy about his father or that his father still lives on.
I have to believe that Leo’s twitter feed has been cleaned, as Kenneth summarized he was tweeting like a demon up until 24 hours before the murder, but no mention of Sylvain anywhere no photos and Leo seems to love taking photos.
@Pink they favor each other interesting they remind of jean Claude van damm
I tried doing a Tineyeye image on the tomlins pic but no luck I would play later wit pix in ging to change perspectives but not conclusive..
@moch69
I know you remember but just look what they did compared to what stated above.
in re your ueuestion..
http://www.businessinsider.com/france-shooting-4-year-old-girl-hid-with-bodies-of-parents-2012-9
“Kara Owen, the deputy British ambassador, is in Grenoble at the injured girl’s bedside in hospital before going to the scene of the massacre at Chevaline.
Officers said the younger girl had remained undiscovered for eight hours “due to procedure”.
The source explained: “The crime scene was kept frozen until forensics experts arrived from Paris during the night.
“This meant that the dead bodies had to remain in the place where they fell. The little girl was well hidden under her mother’s legs, and clearly was in a state of shock.”
on an aside..
I was curious..Flower business must be great in Ugine..as I thought i saw flowers at the second wreck, claygate and chevaline..Here in South USA we set flowers sometimes too on roadway..mostly by family or close friends..but not always….almost make it almost a shrine.but never so immediately after event..Is that a big custom there too so soon after an accident?
Are flowers used as messages also in the covert world?
Pink, yes they do look similar
While we are on photos, we dont have a photo of Sylvain’s father Roger who died in 2011 do we? He was prominent, in fact the founder of the local rugby team(Le Stade Olympique Ugine Albertville – 1985), so we should be able to find a photo even if its an old one.
Katie,
Fracking – yes, it interests me……
Earthquake in Blackpool because of it.
I didnt realise just how widespread fracking is in USA, probably the cause of many earthquakes where you dont expect them. eg Near Philiadelphia and Maine I remember recently
But also the Louisiana Sinkhole:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcbLvO0-huQ
1.5 million barrels of liquid butane near to this sinkhole and the recipe for a HUGE explosion.
Radiation also being forced from the depths with methane and other gases not helping in the ‘climate change’ debate either.
BUT not connected to the Al-Hilli/SM situation neither were promoting that as the way forward, were they?
Thanks Sys I was beginning to think I had been sent to Coventry:)
I have to go to work now but I googled the name of the policeman on the Brun case which is Bourgeat and got a link to a Claudine Mollier and Francois Mollier and then Anthony came up and I was struck by the likeness I wanted to know if anyone else thought so too or is it a waste of time.
There is an Anthony Mollier linked to Thales alenia space
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/anthony-mollier/4/79/547
http://www.linkedin.com/company/thales-alenia-space?trk=ppro_cprof
if someone wants to follow it up .
Another spooky thing when I googled Anthony Mollier I also got a link to someone of that name who was a clone took me aback for a minute I hope its a book .:)
http://z10.invisionfree.com/yoursecondchance/ar/t17.htm
Morning Straw, obviously I don’t know if there’s a link to the murders but it’s not impossible.
I just wondered if SM could have been involved in the protests because he is a member of Solidarité & the oil moguls want to drill right though that beautiful area.
Saad was an engineer , successful fracking would reduce the need for nuclear……could the anti fracking mob …of which there are many vociferous voices/groups & by that reasoning must be pro nuclear, therefore against all those named oil companies………one Exxon director murdered.
Hollande is under great pressure to rescind the ban on fracking to provide jobs in the area.
Remember it was the French who sank the Greenpeace boat,
Sorry Pink, yes there’s a definite likeness between the two. XB was of course a Belgian though.
As the ancient Greeks used to say: “beware of strangers bearing red herrings”.
Slice of “blog roll”, anyone?
@TimV Olifant
Yes, the Aunt from Reading. Another who has disappeared. Name wiped from the University page. Of course, she might have received her PhD, but whither? Just like the children and Zaid, no trace. Don’t forget, Balsam also wanted to adopt them.
Nobody has remarked on ex-Commander Kevin Hurley saying the Surrey police would have to report the deaths to the (Surrey?) coroner. Not a word.
Felix.
Realistically,wouldn’t you want to lay low if this had happened members of your family, surely the last thing you’d want is to be door stepped by journalists or have them camping outside your house ?
This sounds genuine enough to me.
“Their aunt is seeking guardianship of the two surviving children from the attack. Saffar said: “The social services can see these two girls want to be with their aunt.” The foster parents were not Muslims, he added, and the sisters were “deprived of being in an environment which is the same as [provided] by their parents, in regards of religion and culture”.
Saffar said: “We are not saying anything negative about this [foster] family – they are good – but we think the girls are better off with their aunt. The affection is not there.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/28/french-alps-shooting-children-returned
Also from that article: Aunt and Zainab know who each other is:
‘ Saffar, who saw the children with their aunt last weekend, said: “It was hard to see Zainab, to hear her ask why our meetings are so short.” ‘
Outlines of ‘the Left’ in Ugine. ie in relation to political contours of community and of SM.
The liste system in local elections: presumably you tick as many on one list as you like, and some on another list if you like, and you can add a name if you like I believe. Then the total votes for each candidate would be totalled up? And those 30 with the most votes get elected? But the mayoral election takes place in the Council after the election has happened, ie election by the new council themselves. So the mayor F Lomabrd got over 50% and the ex Communoist mayor of the 90s,Bernard, got over 30% and the PS man got 15% or so. Correct this if inaccurate.
At the top of the Liste de L’Union Gauche (PCF,S&P,Greens,Environmemt,Unions) were the four names Bernard, Calvat, Cogglio, Crepy (from memory). The first three are PCF. Probably all four are.
So from the Liste LUG three longstanding communists were elected. The elctors of Ugine would know Berneard and his party and hence would certainly tick those first four boxes on that list. There may have been S&P people lower down the liste but who they are we don’t know. PCF supporters would certainly have been on that list of backers of the LUG. As a worker at Cezus its more than likely that SM supported PCF.
Question: evidence of CGU presence in Ugine is limited. Failure to send in details to the register. Only an address of office in the town is given. Who is in local leadership? Cezus and Timet are unionised plants. (see below) There is a New Years Eve social/dance in the local assembly rooms, just as for other groups such as UMP etc. The union produces a calendar of social events / outings for retired members. Does this element of society not use Internet?
for Unions: see: Capacity of 70%-owned TIMET (TITANIUM METALS CORP, USA) Savoie in Ugine, France is to a certain extent dependent upon the level of activity in CEZUS’ zirconium business, which may from time to time provide TIMET Savoie with capacity in excess of that contractually required to be provided by CEZUS (the 30% minority partner in TIMET Savoie).In March 2001, the Company was notified that certain workers at CEZUS’ plant in Ugine, France were engaged in a work slowdown related to wage and benefit issues. CEZUS performs certain melting and forging operations on a contract basis for TIMET Savoie.
Regarding SM
Had anybody ever asked the simple but logic question about HOW COULD SM AFFORD his life?
He had to pay for 2 teenage sons. Whether or not they lived with him, that costs $$$.
He had a baby. Not cheap either.
Claire Schutz was a pharmacy practicant. Thats not a job where you make a fortune.
She was an amateur alpine ski racer. That costs money for professional ski material, resort and club fees, travelling etc.
Sylvain had a $ 5000 bike.
Sylvain was a welder? What does a welder earn? 3000 euros? You hardly can feed 5 of a family with 3000 euros a month. Therefore it is unlikely that he could save much money in the past.
But then, 3 years paternal leave will be UNPAID. No income for 3 years. Did he win in a lottery? Funded by pharmacy parents in law? He was not even married to Claire. Most likely no funds received by them.
Logic question: How could he have survived 3 years without any monetary income?
Logic answer: he had a secret job but nobody is allowed to talk about that kind of job ….
Criirad is involved too, I have never seen such a well organised protest as this, there’s just pages & pages on the net.
The multiple environmental and health consequences of the extraction
hydrocarbons high concern: in France,.
Shale gas exploration projects have caused since some
months a growing mobilization relayed by the media and which
you have probably heard about.
CRIIRAD this paper presents little-known risks of exposure
radioactivity caused by the exploitation of these reserves, either of
because of the characteristics used rocks or tracing techniques
employees for the study of the characteristics of the deposits.
http://www.criirad.org/actualites/dossier2012/gaz_de_schiste/51-gazdeschiste.pdf
AH would have knowledge of hydrolics & radioactivity was he being asked for help, this is also against Mr X oil interests .
This is the history website of the ugine rugby club
Roger mollier is listed there.
http://www.soua-rugby.fr/historique/
Interesting. Franck Lombard, the mayor, was president of the club. So he would know both Roger and Sylvain very well. That is why he could identify silvains corps at the scene.
The Schutz family pharmacy is listed as a sponsor of the club.
It continues
ISAF NATO commander and Afghanistan chief of staff John R allen had to resign apparently because he sent obscene emails to a Mrs. Kelly who herself has had a grudge fight with Paula Broadwell.
Somebody leaked something in August/September that was not good for Russian and American intelligence services. I dont accept the sudden morality issues as a good reason. That stinks as an excuse for a reason.
@Bluebird et al
13 Nov, 2012 – 10:48 am
re: Parental Leave in France – once again
Maternity Leave
Maternity leave is the amount of time a woman may take off work for the birth of her child. In France, women may take off 16 weeks of work. If she is having her third or more child, she may take off 24 weeks of work. Mothers may begin their maternity leave up to two weeks before the birth of their baby. During her maternity leave, the mother is still paid her full normal salary. Current statistics show that nearly all women take some portion of their maternity leave. Women in upper-level jobs take, on average, a shorter maternity leave.
Paternity Leave
Paternity leave refers to the amount of time a man may take off work for the birth of his child. In France, fathers may take off two weeks of work. During his paternity leave, the father is still paid his full normal salary. Approximately two-thirds of men take paternity leave, much less than the percentage of women who take maternity leave.
Parental Leave
Parental leave is the amount of time a parent, either the father or mother, can take off from work to raise a child. During this time, they are guaranteed that they will still have their job when they return to work. In France, parents can take up to three years off from work to raise a child. During this parental leave, parents do not get paid salaries from their jobs. However, regardless of how much leave a parent takes, the National Family Allowance Fund provides a monthly childcare benefit. The stipend is paid for six months to parents for their first child and for three years for parents with multiple children.
References:
Fagnani, Jeanne and Daniele Boyer. 2010. “France.” Pp. 179-185 in International Review of Leave Policies and Related Research 2010. Employment Relations Research Series 115, edited by P. Moss. United Kingdom: Department for Business Innovation & Skills (BIS) (http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/employment-matters/docs/I/10-1157-international-review-leave-policies).
http://www.tulane.edu/~rouxbee/soci626/france/parental_leave.htm
Lars over on MZT linked to this article about the Remembrance Day ceremony in Chevaline.
À Chevaline : Pas de caméras, ni de flash, mais une cérémonie du 11-Novembre un peu particulière ce dimanche à Chevaline, puisque le secrétaire général de la préfecture Christophe du Payrat avait tenu à être présent, aux côtés du maire Didier Berthollet, à l’heure du recueillement devant le monuments aux morts. Un geste pour « témoigner du soutien du corps préfectoral à la commune et à ses habitants », après le drame du 5 septembre.
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2012/11/11/les-ceremonies-du-11-novembre-en-haute-savoie?image=f5b3843e-a832-41d2-8780-cef43412176a
Is it not strange that Le Dauphine and indeed the general secretary of the préfecture would connect the terrible events of 5 September with the remembrance of Armistice Day 1918?
Do they know there is a military connection?
@Bluebird
That’s a very sensible point you make. My guess is that SM was earning between 1500 and 2000 euros per month.
However, if his two teenaged sons are in “garde partagée” mode, i.e. living half-half with both parents, SM would not be paying any alimony to his ex-wife for his sons, but would be sharing all expenses 50-50 with her.
Being on parental leave, he would receive anything between 200 and 400 euros per month from the State, and would still keep his rights to the NHS. His partner seems to be working a lot, full time, and I bet her salary is higher than his. So they would have calculated that him looking after their son was the best and cheapest solution, especially as childcare is difficult to find as well as expensive.
The bike indeed seems to be outrageously expensive.
@ bluebird 13 Nov, 2012 – 11:18 am
“It continues
ISAF NATO commander and Afghanistan chief of staff John R allen had to resign apparently because he sent obscene emails to a Mrs. Kelly who herself has had a grudge fight with Paula Broadwell.”
“Somebody leaked something in August/September that was not good for Russian and American intelligence services. I dont accept the sudden morality issues as a good reason. That stinks as an excuse for a reason.”
And the FBI agent investigating the complaint by Mrs. Kelly about anonymous harassing emails that started the whole thing, is now found to be sending bare-chested pics of himself to Mrs. Kelly.
All the media proclaim, “Don’t worry, there’s absolutely no evidence of a breach of classified info,” then show a speech by Mrs. Broadwell where she lets slip some secret about the CIA in Benghazi holding two prisoners.
If all these people are communicating with gmail, their messages are read, if only to extract info to send them ads. Gmail also geolocates users, so anyone with access (China, Russia, UK for sure) knows where the head of the CIA is when using gmail, like under the desk. So in a crisis his location alone gives clues as to what’s going on. Remember the one where the foreign services figured out when Washington was plotting something big from late night pizza deliveries to certain offices?
If the FBI figured all this out, though it took them two months or more, why didn’t the CIA know about it internally? I think the elites now intercept, for their own use, far too much of the drugs imported to keep the lower classes stupid.
Or maybe the cause is as this headline from the UK DM says: “Are humans getting dumber? Researchers claim our intelligence is diminishing. A team from Stanford University claim we are losing our intellectual and emotional capabilities because we no longer need intelligence to survive.”
Softcat
Claire was a practicant! Look the website of their pharmacy. As a practicant you earn literally nothing.
Teenage sons cost minimum 1000 euros per month. Baby a bit more.
Mother is coiffeur. Not much money left from that side either i guess.
Unless he won in a lottery or he is living from his fathers inheritance (eg house sale) i cannot see how he could make it with literally no income for 3 years.
He must have had a secret income.
Video with Brindille from 2007. I found it on Marilyn Thomlin’s website, while searching for something else. Someone called Lynda posted the link on 25 October, who also said that Brindille is 28 years old in the video. He appears at the end of it.
NR
This is not about moral or sex. This is about money. And i am quite sure that SAH is the key person in all that mess in the USA and russia.
This is about money and kickbacks for the recent iraq weaponry deal 3 billion dollars with lockheed martin and the 4.5 billion weaponry deal of russia with iraq.
Al maliki said that they are investigating corruption regarding the russian deal due to an information they had received.
In my opinion, those people who had sex affairs were on kickbacks, and an iraqi/american double agent leaked the people involved and did present evidence. because he should be the first one to know. He is no longer alive.
There will more people resign in the next days due to some sex affairs. UK is still missing in that list.
Money is always a good reason to kill somebody. The london based weaponry dealer mobster gang was certainly not amused.
Yet another fatal shooting story from Annecy according to Le Dauphine.
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2012/11/12/clan-contre-clan
It’s beginning to sound like the Wild West, rather than an idyllic, scenic spot in the mountains!
@Bluebird
13 Nov, 2012 – 12:26 pm
Plenty of resignations and suspensions of one sort or another going on in the UK recently too including the abominable MPs Louise Mensch, Nadine Dorries and Denis MacShane, a whole raft of journos and editors at Newsnight and the new BBC Director General George Entwistle the latter because of the Jimmy Savile scandal.
And now for something completely different: another fait divers from our favourite corner of France …
Savoie : un gendarme se suicide avec son arme de service
Créé le 11-11-2012 à 16h07 – Mis à jour à 16h48Par Le Nouvel Observateur avec AFP
L’homme a mis fin à ses jours alors qu’il se trouvait dans un véhicule de service garé dans la gendarmerie.
Mots-clés : gendarmerie, Voiture, Suicide, Gendarme, arme de service
Nouvel Observateur
Un gendarme de 47 ans s’est suicidé avec son arme de service samedi dans l’enceinte du peloton d’autoroute de Sainte-Marie-de-Cuines (Savoie) auquel il était rattaché, a-t-on appris dimanche 1 novembre de source proche de l’enquête, confirmant une information du site du Dauphiné Libéré.
L’homme a mis fin à ses jours samedi après-midi alors qu’il se trouvait dans un véhicule de service garé dans la gendarmerie, selon la même source. Les raisons de son geste sont pour l’instant inconnues, d’après cette source.