The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Sorry Straw44berry
12 Nov, 2012 – 7:46 pm can’t agree at all. If he had reversed in there after pointing up hill, it’s likely the angle to the road would have been LESS than 90 degrees rather than more. A much better explanation is that he backed in having already turned around.
If we accept that there was a 4×4 at the top end of the layby, it is possible that it was already there when they arrived. The alternative obviously is that the 4×4 arrived after the Al Hilli’s and before Mollier OR after BOTH Al Hilli and Mollier.
A lot depends on how reliable the witness accounts are relating to the BMW and Green 4×4 movements. IF the 4×4 was already parked up, the apprehensive Al Hilli might have regarded it and its occupants with some caution, unless there were factors to put his mind at rest. An official forestry vehicle could do that. It is not the first time that certain agencies have been prepared to compromise other’s integrity in an operation.
However, several reliable reports of the BMW would give an arrival time of about 2.50. pm. (The timed photograph in Droussard can only be explained by British time or as disinformation) If we believe WBM, Mollier arrives at the lay by no more than five minutes or so before him. It is in this window that the 4×4 must overtake him and do the deed, if the vehicle didn’t arrive BEFORE Mollier.
If the sound of gunshot at 3.30 is accurate which it seems to be, then Mollier would have had to have arrived, dismounted and engaged the Al Hillis by this time. He would have to overtook WBM at the very start of the 30 MIN climb and cycle at TWICE the speed, neither of which are likely, for WBM to arrive 15 minutes after the shooting i.e. 3.45.
If the shooting time of 3.30 is accurate WBM must have arrived BEFORE 3.45 possibly as little as FIVE MINUTES after, which makes his explanation that he heard and saw nothing, or his account that for some time he thought this was was a conventional road accident, frankly, unbelievable.
A note on the extraction theory.
In my view extraction is not impossible. It’s as valid as any theory which can not be disproven with the information available at this time. Those arguing against extraction seem to do so on the basis that extraction was an option chosen by those reportedly killed.
Given the circumstances of the two girls it is more likely, and only theoretically, that the Al-Hilli family were the subject of involuntary extraction, perhaps an official ‘rendition’, and that SM was a bystander who happened on the scene.
This theory may be as, or even more improbable than some of the other theories but we should keep it in mind until we are in a position to disprove it, either with first hand information or 100% reliable reportage from independent sources.
@ Tim V
I agree. WBM has to be either a part of the problem (ie an actor in the events that took place) or he became part of the solution (a bystander who was roped in to tell the offical story).
Tim V
I said after driving back towards Chevaline not up the hill
Brainstorming is good Ferret
12 Nov, 2012 – 9:02 pm. There’s the well known Conan Doyle saying in the mouth of good old Sherlock Holmes “When you have eliminated all the possible explanations, the only remaining ones must be true however impossible it appears”. However setting aside the huge organisation required for your theory to work (far more even than an assassination) in my view it falls because there is no logical reason to go to all this trouble. If people are being abducted Vanunu or rendition style, you just pick them up utilizing some ruse or other and it would be just the important targets. If it was a salvation mission to get people off the map and out of trouble, you would probably just “disappear” them as with IRA spies in N Ireland. If it was necessary to give the impression of death to cover the disappearance, there are easier was. Unclaimed bodies from the morgue in a fire for example. This is far too complicated for an extraction in my opinion. Why would anyone choose that place and go to all that trouble when there would be far more convincing and less notorious ways of doing it?
But Tim this is not at all a simple assassination it is a fairytale involving a huge cast of Hollywood actors, every main character says it is.
@NR: You’re forgetting the Canadian spy Jeffrey Delisle, who communicated with his Russian masters by writing drafts in an email account that he shared with his Russian handler. Those emails were never sent. Both parties had the passwords to the account, and went into the drafts folder to communicate.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/10/26/jeffrey-deslisle-spy-plotlines.html
@Mochyn69: Remember the nurse from the emergency room in the Aurora, Colorado Batman shooting? She who had a mysterious fatal accident not long after.
http://www.theendrun.com/batman-shooting-nurse-jenny-gallagher-dead-at-46-alleged-drowning
What do aerial survey companies have to do with uranium? See here:
http://frosthitstherhubarb.blogspot.ca/2006_12_17_archive.html
You’ll also find mention of Lockheed Martin and the F-35.
Pink
12 Nov, 2012 – 9:23 pm if the D Notice , banning any reference to SAH as agent for British Intelligence is Kosher, it rather confirms that he was. I have postulated before that the stories about him in 2003 and the “over-the-top” search of his home might easily have been to suggest the exact opposite, i.e. he was a threat rather than an asset, to maintain his cover.
With the extensive diplomatic/CIA history of his family, particularly his uncle, and his knowledge/contacts both with the defence industry and the convoluted Iran/Iraq politics, it would be surprising if British Intelligence HADN’T used him on an extended basis, especially when an attack by Al Quaida type individuals was on the cards.
The relationship is virtually confirmed in my mind by the fact that his British citizenship was granted in the run up to the 2003 invasion. Despite the confusion in immigration, it is inconceivable the British authorities would have granted it to such a high profile person, at that time, were he considered in any way a threat.
So now if he was working with Intelligence (and it was something of a family tradition) we must assume his trip to France was known by MI5/6 and perhaps even on their instructions. For what purpose and why take the extended family? Was it just holiday cover or protective Mr Al Hilli keeping his family close or because he needed his mother-in-law to vouch for certain information? Who knows?
The psychological state of an undercover agent can only be imagined, especially in the context of the bloody middle east. Al Hilli could have been under no illusions how dangerous his role was from several quarters, both industrial and political. It would make him wary and defensive all the time which is supported by his comments to neighbours, the locks and not even telling the school where he was going in spite of the fact his children were due to return. Also the change of camping sites.
I don’t think there can be much doubt now, despite official attempts to confuse the issue by moving bodies and claiming innocent bystander status, that Al Hilli and Mollier were meeting for some purpose or other. Even the official account now supports this. Frenchman getting off bike to have friendly chat with foreign looking tourist won’t wash. This was clearly a PURPOSEFUL meeting. What the purpose was is not clear, but it must have been something important to require that long cycle ride and travel halfway across Europe.
We can only assume it was something to do with Mollier’s knowledge or expertise gleaned from over twenty years in a highly specialized industry from which he was taking a long break. Did the long break lessen his fiduciary ties and make him more susceptible to the offer of money. Could the break have been imposed owing to fears of his loyalty. Did he actually bear a grudge against the firm that would justify some disloyal act?
Was the information flowing from Mollier to Al Hilli or vice versa, or was it some sort of mutual exchange. I think the former is more likely just on the basis of their relevant technical and social positions. If Mollier was already identified as a possible leak source, this meeting by SAH on behalf of his British masters could have been to confirm it, and more important to identify the routes, contacts and state of play of Iranian nuclear activities.
If other powers had taken a different view of the real purpose of the meeting and the West’s rather ambivalent view of the danger of Iran’s nuclear programme, they may have decided to act unilaterally to neutralised the threat.
This may mean something to someone. It’s the company mentioned in the previous link (2006) about Uramin and uranium:
http://www.khanresources.com/company/management.html
I don’t know if aerial surveys for potential natural resources could be a link to Saad al-Hilli and the Uramin deal, which caused a huge embarrassment to AREVA (Cogema) and France. Does anyone know of any mineral surveys, specifically for uranium, done by either SAH or Surrey Satellite Technology Limited (SSTL)?
Repeating this for the dates showing new satellite advancements:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrey_Satellite_Technology
There was a huge amount of money involved in the AREVA-Uramin deal, and careers lost. However, an internal investigation in February of this year declared that the $2.5 billion deal was neither a fraud nor a scam:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/14/areva-idUSL5E8DE8EO20120214
Would heads roll, literally, over $2.5 billion? Seems possible.
@Tim V: Excellent summary and analysis!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva_NC
Is it more likely that a “welder” would be involved in the CNRS end of things developing fuel assemblies, or in the forge, melting metals for alloy slabs?
Perhaps offtopic, but interesting.
Mrs Kelley is Lebanese Shia. She immigrated into the usa with her lebanese father.
Mrs. Kelley is the woman who is allegedly responsible for the fbi investigating patraeus.
Can we find a link between Ms. JILL KHAWAM and the al Saffars, al Allafs etc. ?
@Bluebird: I appreciate understatement! It’s a lost art.
I remember how the Aurora, Colorado incident also involved a woman with roots in Lebanon.
@Bluebird: Maybe secrets could have been kept using draft folders on gawab.com. However, the service is no longer available.
http://email.about.com/od/freeemailreviews/gr/gawab_com.htm
http://www.linkedin.com/company/gawab.com
Maybe the Jeffrey Delisle spy scandal had something to do with it?
Kenneth Sorensen
13 Nov, 2012 – 12:19 pm – do you know the gist of this video, it all being in French? Are you saying this is the Brun killed in the car crash?
So to the extraction theorists, what do you think the spooks did,roll up with a bottle or two of blood & strategically poured it in a lifelike line ?
Yeah, silly me, that’s why stories don’t tally & the blood is in the wrong place !
Zainab wasn’t in hospital, the staff there were also in on it,that photo we saw of the group,aunt,police liason officer,psychologist, et al, leaving, were all in on it too.
They all went for coffee at the hospital to fool the journalists ?
Oh come on folks.
Whilst it would have been easy with one person I refuse to believe an extraction was done with five people !
Sorry, but I’m much to down to earth to imagine that scenario.
This gets even stranger, with a family tie to a whistleblower-representing lawyer:
http://articles.philly.com/2012-11-12/news/35069879_1_paula-broadwell-general-petraeus-david-h-petraeus/2
All this talk of extraction makes me think of dentists, and the people in this story whose photos have not been made public by the authorities.
Bluebird
13 Nov, 2012 – 10:48 am Yes I have though indirectly BB from the point of view that he would be in serious need of money and possibly more amenable to offers of cash for information. It’s one thing to be off work for a couple on weeks, three months even but three years? That sounds like something far more fundamental to me. Mid life crisis, disillusionment with job, need for a change, forced absence etc?
@Katie –
so Zaid & co are going to lay low for ever. That is nonsense really. Does he want a new identity, just because his brother has allegedly been murdered?
So we are probably agreed then Straw44berry
13 Nov, 2012 – 2:10 pm – sorry. To recap I think he backed in to the bottom of the car park (having faced down hill towards Chevaline) fairly sedately I.e. not under threat or he would have left tyre tracks and parked up about 2 m in. This allows about 3 m roughly for him to reverse straight back when he is being shot at.
No Felix, but it’s still so fresh & no doubt Journos are loitering & waiting to spot the girls moving in with auntie or uncle. I’m damned sure I would not want money made & papers sold on my discomfort… would you ?
Al khawam. Al khawam
I knew that i read this family name before in connection with al hilli. They were leading figures in the oil for food smuggling.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/both-sides-of-the-iraqi-street/2005/12/13/1134236063780.html
Jill Khawam has a twin sister natalie and a brother david khawam. Both are lawyers.
http://lawyers.law.cornell.edu/lawyer/natalie-khawam-esq-mba-ms-534939
{http://www.insiderpages.com/b/15246130504/tribulas-jill–david-khawam-law-offices-haddon-township
Jill kelley, born to lebanese family al khawam.
Now we get first iraq connections.
Smuggling, bribery, saddam money. You got it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Kelley
Good for the al khawam family when they had top contacts with CIA. Ok we know today that they had top contacts with saddam, too. And saddam was a CIA asset and so were the hillis. Good to know that the old friends are still staying close together. Friendships forever… .
Crikey Bluebird that was quick……. isn’t the world small ?
Yep old habits die hard.
¶6. (C) Colonel Ali al-Khawam, leader of Muthanna’s elite Criminal Intelligence Unit (CIU), is an effective anti-JAM commander who has succeeded in bringing JAM’s influence in the province to an all-time low. He has survived multiple assassination attempts, including an EFP attack, as well as efforts from national JAM and Sadrist leaders to pressure the MOI to remove him from office. The assassination of governor Hassani robbed Khawam of his political cover and the latest effort to remove Khawam through the MOI failed only after MNF-I intervened on his behalf.
Whoaa. That and the CIA chief!
Thanks Q
13 Nov, 2012 – 3:17 pm. Of course the other angle in this multi faceted story, which as far as I know has not been discussed, is the intentional sabotage of the Iranian programme which is happening on a number of fronts and from a number of quarters – Israel, possibly Saudia Arabia et al, USA , EC. It has included killing scientists, computer virus, bombing missions by Israel in Iraq (1982) and Syria (2007) and only just revealed the proposal by the Israeli PM to bomb Iran in 2010 that was actually blocked by top commanders. But it should not be assumed these are the only ones. The certainty projected by the American Vice President Joe Biden in the recent debates that Iran will not get a nuclear device, might suggest he knows something we don’t. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the West has actually been feeding Iran with information designed to wreck their development from a critical technical point of view. Defective welding to metal containers could easily be an element of this. Centrifuges to concentrate, times, temperatures, chemical compositions are all the stuff of a manufacturing process that can be manipulated. Supporting infrastructure can be disrupted. So the question hangs, could Areva/French Government be allowing defective products or the information to create them, pass to Iran? How this would result in the killings I haven’t as yet thought through. But it’s not impossible.
Very interesting BB, I see Chalabi & Majid are in there too, the Khawam’s have followed the same path as Kadhim, falling out with the Baathists too, they must have known each other……