The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
“So he knows their after him, so he loads up granny and the family and does a bunk, but decides collect something off Mollier on the way?”
Maybe he wanted to WARN Mollier. And didn’t dare do it electronically.
“Maybe he wanted to WARN Mollier. And didn’t dare do it electronically.”
Makes sense, from the reports they were sat there for an hour waiting for him, that said why hang about for so long at both the campsite and the carpark knowing Mossad are after you?
Bit odd how Mollier’s wife went to the police with a photo when he didn’t come back on time…
I’ve been lurking and devouring this and the earlier Al Hilli threads.
I’ve got little to add to the impressive corpus of information already here. Just a couple of points:
1. If there is a DA notice referring specifically to the case, then it is solid evidence of significant SIS sensitivity about it. Arguably that reduces the likelihood of a Mossad Op and increaes the likeihood of DGSE/UK SIS involvement – though not necessarily. Frankly, I’d be surprised if MI5/6 were not paying close attention to Al Hilli given his history. So, definitive info on the DA notice would certainly move things along.
2. I consider the Auchi connection significant. The SIS’s are, almost by definition, deeply interested in the machinations of men like that. He is pretty much bound to be deeply implicated in the ongoing Western engineered Syria/Iran destabilisation and my guess is that the Al Hilli killings have their roots somewhere in that murk.
I’ve installed ACH (Analysis of competing Hypotheses) software on the Wikispook server and invite participants here to have a look. It’s purely experimental right now but, with enough paticipation, it has the potential to move threads like this beyond the ‘exhaused discussion’ stage.
There is a comprehensive explanation of it at the link below. To see the one project currently defined (Al Hilli family killings) you will need to register. Take no serious notice of its contents yet though – I’m just feeling my way and will flesh it out properly when I’ve got to grips with its capabilities properly.
ACH system home page here
Wikispooks brief ACH explanation page here
Bit odd how Mollier’s wife went to the police with a photo when he didn’t come back on time…
Yup, I’ve queried this on earlier threads. It would be very useful to know how soon it was that Claire Schutz went to the police. Was it triggered by an instruction from him when he left, or was there some early report on local radio that alerted her to the fact that the shootings had taken place where he had told her he was intending to cycle?
Anders7777 at 12.28 on 4.10.12:
The British Defence League? Yes, Israel clearly is assassinating Iran’s nuclear scientists and it has targeted Arab scientists too over the years, no great revelation in that – we don’t need an organisation that calls itself the ‘British Defence League’ to tell us that. But why link to the British Defence League? What is that? A new manifestation of the English Defence League, but obsessed with (to paraphrase) ‘Islam’s intrusions into British life’ and with nice pink, Mills ‘n’ Boon flowers? The EDL with camomile tea? Is this the resurrection of Lady Jane (Birdwood)?
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The article was by Richard Sale not the EDL.
I don’t give a stuff about the EDL, I DO give a stuff about good writing and that is an EXCELLENT artticle for Nuid, she asked last night for me to explain why MOSSAD – which I did, but the posts were deleted again.
@Ferret re: Not Aldermaston
That is very interesting when considering earthquakes in Qom.
“Bit odd how Mollier’s wife went to the police with a photo when he didn’t come back on time…”
That bit doesn’t surprise me. She had heard that a cyclist had been shot, had she not? If she was a sensible woman (and many are!) she would have known she’d be asked for one.
“she asked last night for me to explain why MOSSAD”
Correcton, Anders. I asked why *you* thought it might be Mossad. I didn’t ask for any “explanation”. !
“That bit doesn’t surprise me. She had heard that a cyclist had been shot, had she not? If she was a sensible woman (and many are!) she would have known she’d be asked for one.”
If she’d heard a cyclist had been shot then that does indeed make sense.
She had heard that a cyclist had been shot, had she not?
Source?
Anders,
I think you’re all mixed up. I believe Suhayl was referring to the link you posted at 3 Oct, 2012 – 12:28 am.
The article by Richard Sale at truthout was underneath.
And they’re both still there, Anders, so no, the posts were not “deleted again”.
“She had heard that a cyclist had been shot, had she not?”
“Source?”
Pretty sure I read that here. I’ll trawl back and see.
@Guy_Fawkes: Re FPGA
Signal ops?
“Applications of FPGAs include digital signal processing, software-defined radio, aerospace and defense systems, ASIC prototyping, medical imaging, computer vision, speech recognition, cryptography, bioinformatics, computer hardware emulation, radio astronomy, metal detection and a growing range of other areas.”
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-programmable_gate_array
“She had heard that a cyclist had been shot, had she not?”
She went to the police at around five o’clock in the afternoon, according to this timeline
{http://sites.radiofrance.fr/chaines/france-bleu/?nr=abb241667b6a418facd65cd8ff5b0d91&71a58d44836df8e140a4a916dbec3802_container_mode=item&71a58d44836df8e140a4a916dbec3802_container_id=140085}
“Sa compagne, ne le voyant pas revenir avait donner l’alerte mercredi vers 17h.”
I am not sure whether she could have known about the shootings by then. In the course of that day, she saw something about the shootings on TV, but I have no idea whether that was before or after.
{http://news.fr.msn.com/m6-actualite/faits-divers/fait-divers-tuerie-en-haute-savoie}
“Ses deux autres enfants, issus d’un précédent mariage quant à eux, devront vivre avec un souvenir indélébile. Ce soir tragique du 5 septembre 2012. Il était 22 heures quand leur maman les a réveillés pour leur annoncer que leur père venait de mourir. Quelques heures plus tôt, devant le journal télévisé, ils avaient eu cette réflexion prémonitoire devant le récit de la tuerie, et l’annonce de la mort d’un cycliste : ‘j’espère que ce n’était pas papa’.”
Ferret,
I think you are right to be looking at Saad’s link to nuclear weapons but I havent got any knowledge or thoughts about how and where to look. When, perhaps if I have a Eureka moment I will post it.
Molliers wife could have always been aware of possible danger due to her husbands job.
“Molliers wife could have always been aware of possible danger due to her husbands job.”
Really?
Does anyone expect to be contract killed just because they work in the nuclear industry (obviously if you do it in Iran you need to look out)?
Now if she knew he was doing a bit of on the side dealing?
Getting distracted by the Saville situation. I remember a story about 5 years ago of about 3000 upstanding members of society (police, teachers, celebs) who had been implicated in a massive peadophile ring. The story just disappeared and so many police were supposedly involved…
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Welcome back BB, dunno what you had done but do have a speedy recovery! I rather enjoy morphine, myself! But only in very small doses.
For those interested I have two sa-VILE threads on the go.
This one is ref tonight’s ITV show, 230 replies and 20,000 views, not too shabby:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222773
Operation ORE has been a big bug bear with me, because of course it was a complete cover-up.
I had a MASSIVE thread ongoing about Blair, the Dunblane cover-up (100 year DA notice thanks to Antonia Miranda Blair) and Operation Ore – at the USA Godlike Productions site – which went on for the best part of a year, had getting on for a million views, and attracted the attention of the cryptocracy, the usual suspect corporations, and a raft of .mil and .spook agencies. The whole site was eventually shut down just to KILL the thread. The site was bought out for several 100 1000 dollars by a guy fronting the USAF, and now operates from a USAF base in Texas, where, curiously, the 7/7 Jihad false claims emanated from. Go figure.
So – Job done. The depraved elite of society get away with their murders, snuff films, and satanism once again.
One member of Tony Blair’s cabinet was fingered in OPERATION ORE, and the bastard issued yet another DA notice to protect the guilty. That person was disgraced time after time for embezzlement and false expenses claims, and is now a LORD.
Have a guess who it might be.
Welcome back BB!
@Ferret Re: Not Aldersmaston
Earthquake precursors can be detected in space. Even 16- and 17-year-olds know that:
http://blog.sstl.co.uk/plugin/tag/outreach/P2.html
There’s that darned lightning again, which will set me off on elves and sprites. I suppose those kids will build their own constellation of mini-RHESSIs before long. Today’s youth, always up to no good.
Peter thanks for your reply, so warnings are through intimidation.
I agree AH actions could all look like reactions from such, but the last thing I’d do is go camping & than on deserted roads or drive for that matter, cars can be tampered with,car accidents being a favourite way of assassination.
The more I think about this the more AH comes across as a complete amateur.
I am leaning toward a gangster killing, in the Chicago style.
See what Wikispooks says.
Straw, in my first comment of the day is a link with a Safaa Al Hilli who is a nuclear scientist in the US…… he went to a Swedish university, I think there’s three points of interest there.
@Ferret re: Not Aldermaston
I followed your link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Weapons_Establishment
This place could be called “not Chalk River” in many respects: tritium leaks into the river, connections to Los Alamos (Chalk River was part of the Manhattan Project), sale to a private engineering consortium. Tritium isn’t just for glow-in-the-dark lights.
Getting back to the earthquake detection, is it logical for someone who is neither 16 nor 17 years old to think that earthqakes that do not emit precursors in space could be man-made?
@Ferret:
Oh, Jacobs Engineering is in Bristol.
http://www.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/jacobs–uk–ltd-16345526.html
@Nuid
Apologies to James and Anders regarding last night. I fell asleep. I’m not able for a ‘run’ of late nights.
In reply to Anders:
“Nuid, the Mossad, as I’m sure you will know, have been bumping off Arab scientists for years”
Iranians I thought?
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Arabs, of which Iranians are a part – I don’t want to get into semantics ref semitics etc etc.
They are killing any Arabs they they perceive pose a thread ref Nuke technology.
“hundreds at the last count”
Do you have any source at all for that? I would have thought it wasn’t anything like that high a number.
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Many of the murders are disguised as RTAs, boating accidents, falls, suicides etc. Google is your friend – I’ve read of hundreds.
“– and SAH was very knowledgeable and talented.”
Knowledgeable and talented doesn’t mean he was either Iranian or working for the Iranians.
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He was Iraq and working for MI6, according to your friend Mark Golding.
They Israelis are not trying to bump off all Arab or Irananian scientists in all disciplines are they? Netanyahu is mad but not quite that mad, surely.
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From this article I posted for you;
http://www.britishdefenceleaguebdl.com/israels-assassins-and-tehranss-killers.html
In the early 1980s, the chief threat to Israel’s existence was no longer Arafat, but Arab scientists. On June 7, 1981, in “Operation Sphinx,” Israel’s fighter planes destroyed the Iraq nuclear complex, Tamuze 17, at Osirak. Israel, then set out to eliminate Arab scientists that could be seen as a threat to Israel’s future security. “Israel has been killing Iranian or even Arab nuclear scientists for some time,” said a veteran CIA station chief.
A former senior Department of Defense (DoD) official said, “Israel killed Arab scientists without compunction.”
“The motive for doing a risky hit on foreign soil must have been very large indeed, the pros outweighing the cons.”
So you don’t have a specific motive in mind? Or a theory about what SAH was doing in Chevaline?
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As I said, look to his brother’s words.
“As SAH’s brother said, the massacre was a result of SAH’s work.”
“As SAH’s brother said, the massacre was a result of SAH’s work.”
That doesn’t tell us much, Anders.
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Well this is why you are NO S. Holmes Nuid! 🙂
I came across a reference to SAH being involved in some new satellite technology for mapping/tracking shipping? I know zero about satellite technology, but it occurred to me to ask, could such a thing track/map submarines? Since the Israelis have just acquired the last of about five or six subs from the Germans, subs which they use or intend to use to carry nuclear weapons, I would assume that such tracking capability would annoy them greatly. (Along with every other country that has subs of course.) But I would have thought that while you can kill people you can’t kill a technology, once it’s been invented. I have always thought that this “policy” of killing off scientists was a bit daft for that reason.
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The Israelis are psychotic. All they do is buy time, keep the plates spinning. They are blackmailing the west with their SAMSON pronography:
The Samson Option is Israel’s alleged deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a “last resort” against nations whose military attacks threaten its existence, and possibly against other targets as well.[1] The phrase also has been used more generally to describe Israel’s nuclear program.
Nevertheless, as early as 1976, the CIA believed that Israel possessed 10 to 20 nuclear weapons.[8] By 2002 it was estimated that the number had increased to between 75 and 200 thermonuclear weapons, each in the multiple-megaton range.[9] Kenneth S. Brower has estimated as many as 400 nuclear weapons.[10] These can be launched from land, sea and air.[11] This gives Israel a second strike option even if much of the country is destroyed.
According to United States journalist Seymour Hersh and Israeli historian Avner Cohen, Israeli leaders like David Ben-Gurion, Shimon Peres, Levi Eshkol and Moshe Dayan coined the phrase in the mid-1960s. They named it after the biblical figure Samson, who pushed apart the pillars of a Philistine temple, bringing down the roof and killing himself and thousands of Philistines who had captured him, mutilated him, and gathered to see him further humiliated in chains. They contrasted it with ancient siege of Masada where 936 Jewish Sicarii committed mass suicide rather than be defeated and enslaved by the Romans.[14]
And I would have imagined that satellites could track shipping already, but what do I know?
(I have to re-find the source for that story. I didn’t bookmark it. Grrrr …)
“Further, the DA notice pinpoints the 4 main avenues that journalists, but not us, are forbidden to talk about.”
Anders, we don’t have any solid evidence that there ever was a D-notice. And there has already been controversy about it here.
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We have PLENTY of evidence so please don’t insult our intelligence. Ferret has done an OUTSTANDING job, so I suggest you re-read his DA notice arguments, which are WATER TIGHT ™ !
“Therein lies the solution.”
You call that a ‘solution’? I don’t.
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That is why you are NO S. Holmes Nuid! 🙂
“Do note that the USA has just de-listed the MEK as a terrorist organisation.”
Yes I know, and that’s already been discussed here too.
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Then CONNECT THE FRIGGING DOTS MY DEAR ™ ! 🙂
You are presented with all the evidence, all the clues, and you cannot make the CONNECTIONS ™ !
I don’t see how it leads to any more cooperation between the CIA and Mossad than there was already. If there was. I would imagine Mossad largely play their cards very close to their chests.
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You know this is bollocks, so why write it? If the USA is now supporting MEK, it means only one thing – it is HAPPY to have MEK continue murdering scientists on behalf of Israel!
The Israeli program, which has been in place for almost a decade, involves not only targeted killings of key Iranian assets, but also disrupting and sabotaging the Iran nuclear technology by infecting Iran’s enrichment computers with a US-Israel virus that heavily damaged them and by sabotaging Iran’s purchasing network abroad, these sources said.
US opposition to the program initially intensified as President Obama made overtures aimed at thawing decades-old tension between the two countries. Part of his strategy was driven by America’s desire to use Iran’s roads into Afghanistan to help resupply US-NATO forces there.
But in spite of Obama’s desire to relax tensions, Israel continues to carry out killings using its proxies, including an armed group of Iranian dissidents, a group that has high-level political backers in the United States despite being a terrorist organization.
Former senior CIA officials said that Israeli terrorists were members of the Mujahideen-e-Khalq (MEK), who are paid by Israel to do targeted killings of Iranian nationals.
“The MEK is being used as the assassination arm of Israel’s Mossad intelligence service,” said Vince Cannistraro, former CIA chief of counterterrrorism. He said that the MEK is in charge of executing “the motor attacks on Iranian targets chosen by Israel. They go to Israel for training, and Israel pays them.”
“Nuid asked a facetious question, and I took 30 minutes answering her.”
No, not 100% facetious, I actually wanted to see what you had to say. But unfortunately I had to shut down. And I do apologise for that.
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No worries.
I can’t imagine what an ASCII picture of “M O S S A D 7.65mm” is supposed to contribute. It’s certainly not evidence of anything at all. It’s like posting a cartoon.
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I like to be creative! 🙂
“anders is the brightest button on here” says Big Daddy.
All I can say is, “you’re easily impressed”.
You’ll have to count me out of more-or-less real time conversations – this thread is too time-consuming for me, I’m afraid. No offense, but I don’t know how the rest of you do it!
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I am NOT Big Daddy – he’s big enough to look after himself, and he wiped the floor with bully boy James by all accounts. 🙂
Laterz.
The more I think about this the more AH comes across as a complete amateur.
I am not so sure about that. His actions can be read either way – totally amateurish or pretty shrewd. *IF* he had been threatened by Mossad (a big IF), and if he had a rough idea of how these people operate (a smaller IF, given that he used to hang around on islamist websites), he would have known that Kidon assassinations are not spur-of-the-moment operations – “There he is, let’s shoot him!” It just doesn’t work that way. By traveling to France, using his camper and changing campsites along the way, he would have bought himself some extra time. IMHO, they would almost certainly not have risked following him to another country.
However, *if* this was a rush job for whatever reason, it would have been a doddle for Mossad to find out where in France SAH was holidaying, and it would only have cost them a telephone call to send some local talent after him.
“By traveling to France, using his camper and changing campsites along the way, he would have bought himself some extra time. IMHO, they would almost certainly not have risked following him to another country.”
Loading up granny and taking all the passports with them suggests he was away on his toes.
Perhaps they were monitering Mollier and let him take them to Al-hilli?
It can’t be a coincidence that Mollier worked for a company producing something that is a key part of Iran’s nuclear programme?
@ wikispooks
Wiki if you’re reading I’ve signed up but want my visible username to be “dopey” and not the one showing. I can’t see anywhere on there to send an email to send a request?
@ferret
I am just not DISCOUNTING the possibility of SAH having worked in nuclear weapons research, and am doing some speculative investigative work, based on the hint in the leaked D Notice.
What’s wrong with that?
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Nothing at all. In fact the vehemence with which your splendid ferreting generates is in fact a positive clue that you are on the right track! I think it pays to pay attention to SAH’s bother – the murders are to do with SAH’s work – and the 4 specific DA notice qualifiers.
Further, SAH had a LOT of computing power – he could quite easily have been working on Nuke stuff on his own, privately, in his shed.
Not mixing bombs, but doing research. And as we know, the Israelis have a policy of not taking any chances, they are playing for KEEPS.
So – As I said last night, therein lies the solution!
KISS – KEEP IT SIMPLE 🙂
[Mod/Jon: removed ascii picture]
@felix
Mahmoud is ok for suhaila.
Second name in arab names is alsays name of father.
Thats good to research family connections.