The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@Marlin
30 Jul, 2013 – 5:49 am
Hey, Marlin, ever heard of Google?
This may be the source, but I can’t read the article as it’s behind a paywall. The abstract on Google contains this phrase ‘… but came to the UK to study for a PhD in biology at Reading University…’
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1170441.ece
And there is this, which surprisingly, I hadn’t seen before!
http://www.pressawards.org.uk/modules/entries/images/entries-30120614-01154.pdf
Did you see Saad’s grave in mochyn’s PDF link?
Saad KHIDM A.H. Hilli
Either the plate was done by an idiot or we had a wrong name of his father.
Lets search from scratch.
Marlin, the Suhyla al Allaf Biomed link was originally found in the early days, i think that ot was me.
However this was just a footnote in a google book and it was written as “S.M. Al Allaf”.
Lars obviously took it for granted that this must be Suhaila. However, there was nothing mentioned of a diploma. On the other hand it was evident that this was a London university script.
Tim v.
In 1979 SM was 10 years old and Saad still at school. I do not know about who brought that Iraq nuclear nonsense into the game in the early days, bit it was probably the same person who did insist that they came to London only in 1980 while they were coming in fact 11 years earlier as documents stated and while Hashim already lived in London since the early 1960tees. That very person did not accept any facts although it was evident that Saad could not work on the iraqi nuclear program at the age of 17.
We can debunk that nuclear link. It has nothing todo with the assassination.
Why do you kill somebody?
1) arguments about money
2) imminent danger (whistleblowing or current work in a dangerous project)
3) revenge for previous killings (in iraq often family members are being killed in return for previous killings).
4) competition (political, drug/weapons smuggling, money laundering)
However, you do not kill somebody because of a project that was done 30 years ago.
I strongly believe that those nuclear links and iran were brought into the game by paid shills who wanted to confuse us and turning our attention into the wrong direction. The solution is much easier and it is to be searched within the families and particularly in their political and intelligence ties that could include dangerous knowledge of past events or current money laundering or simply money theft.
Mochyn69,
Thanks. I do have a vague recollection of seeing something about Suhaila, back when.
Google is no longer my friend, BTW. Now that i know what the Panopticon is up to.
Also, the Sunday times article is good – it’s from Dec 2 and has Peter Allen as contributor. I do recall it was behind a pay wall originally but may be someone saved it and is now the PDF you sent? I did have most of this material also from Lars who kindly summarized it at the time for those who couldn’t read the whole thing on MZT way back when.
A few notable things in this old article;
1. Reference to 4×4 passing Saad (and a MC a bit later) – the words quoted make it on the way down. No mention of vehicles passing him going up.
2. The timing of the car + MC is interesting – about 15 minutes into the 1/2 hour climb. If the 1/2 hour is from the sign, ie, about 3 km from le martinet, that would put that’s at around 3;20PM assuming he arrived at 3:35PM as we surmise. Interestingly coinciding – approximately – with the 3;20Pm for the BMW X5 they were looking for 8 months later.
Also, I note that at that time the identification of the 4×4 as forestry vehicle was not firm. Now, how on earth can that be, this long into the case?
3. It is specifically stated that SM had no road rash or grazing, so was not dragged.
4. The number of bullets in this account is a total of 25 (that’s what the early accounts said). each of the Al Hilli family shot three times – twice in the body, once in the head, Mollier 7 times and Zainab once. makes for a total of 17. presumably he got the numbers from a police somewhere.
5. Wrong picture of the BMW reversing – probably the account given by the french, kind of matching the le parisien cartoon. That, we know is wrong.
6. More wrong facts: BMW is referred to as ‘aytomatic’. I believe we established it wasn’t.
7. The reporter said he had access to the full interview by brett martin. But added nothing we haven’t heard. he refefrs to WBM as having flown Phantoms for 17 years ( aserious pilot, that) then working for BAE. He is always referred to as RAF-man, however.
8. It is really noticeable how dubious the reporter is of the accounts by the French. He believes based on what he heard that SM was the target, but not sure why.
9. The article contains the detail i was interested in about Suhaila studying for her PhD in London. It also adds however, that fadwa lived in Iraq and came to UK to complete a PhD, which she did. She was apparently planning to return to Iraq, when the Chevaline events transpired.
Question: who in their right mind goes back to iraq with its crazy security situation?
Another question; I wonder what Fadwa’s husband does for a living. Do we know?
10. Mattews is mentioned in the article as one of Saad’s friends. gary Aked mentioned once. Little information is provided about Saad’s work other than the fact that he didn’t make so much money as a mechanical engineer. indeed 28,000 pounds is not a lot for a family of 4 to live one. It said he spend 15K pounds to bring his father’s body back earlier that year. Lots of expenses, but income is uncertain. What paid for this nice vacation i wonder/ family savings?
I think it’s a good idea to go over old articles now and then, in case something that didn’t seem significant at the time jumps out. There were a few interesting details for me, though i knew most.
I wonder whether it is easy to contact peter Allen or davis, james davis. may be just to help correct a few facts. Anyone has the address handy?
A.H. Hilli
unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0016/001629/162919eb.pdf
Lived from 1958 to 1970 continuously in 22 Queens Gate, Knightsbridge, which was the Iraqi embassy in London.
Born 1914.
This could be Hashim (what i originally had thought) but it coupd be Saad’s grandfather as well, due to the initials “A.H.”).
How old was Kadhim (Kdhim) when he died recently? Does anyone know?
What does A.H. mean?
I have some theories, but the most prominent guess is “Abdul Hussein”, simply because they have a new Hussein in their family what usually points at grandfathers or great grandfathers or even famous earlier ancestors names and abdul hussein is often shortened as “A.H.”
If i am right, Kdhim al Hilli might have called himself “Kdhim (Khadim) Abdul Hussein, too.
Here is a summary from felix and myself regarding kadhim al hilli and the sources we had found regarding saad’s family. Kadhim al hilli used a diffrrent name than the rest of the family. He was “abdul hussein (al khateeb)”
Perhaps because he had a different mother than Hashim??
It is worth looking into the links again (if those links still do exist).
Felix29 Oct, 2012 – 5:45 pmI see a reference to “the late Hashim Al-Hilli” as a director of the Industrial Bank of Iraq in the old days (المرحوم هاشم الحلي (مدير المصرف الصناعي)http://www.aburaqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3471&page=32Here is mention ofLawyer and businessman Kadhim Al-Hilli bin Abdul-Hussain Al-Khateeb Al-Hilli. كاظم الحلي, بن السيد عبد الحسين الخطيب الحلي{http://www.alnoor.se/article.asp?id=149683}[Swedish site]by Dr Haitham Al-Hilli Hussain whose fascinating biography is here:{http://www.ahewar.org/m.asp?i=5255}
Bluebird29 Oct, 2012 – 8:32 pmfelix, concerning my question:This is just a guess and I need your verification. I strongly believe that Kadhim’s and Hashim’s father’s name was Abdul Hussain born 1881 and immigrated into USA in 1919. That idea came from the complete name that you had translated from the Arabic language (Kadhim Al-Hilli bin Abdul-Hussain Al-Khateeb Al-Hilli). If that is true, I strongly believe that Kadhim was called Kadhim Hussain in his documents as long as he lived in the USA. Dr.Kadhim Hussain was born in 1934 (that’s exactly the DOB of Kadhim al Hilli) and he studied in Houston university in 1954 and later he went to Stanford. Perhaps when returning to Iraq he changed his name to “al Hilli” again? Felix, do you think that this would be a possible name scenario or am I on a false track here?As much as I understand, his complete name means: Kadhim from the tribe of Hillah, son of Abdul Hussain from the tribe of Khateeb and from the tribe of Hillah. Am I correct?
could that be the co-author Abdul Hussain H. (Hilli) Kadhim? Name spelled other way round. In fact Kadhim H. (hilli) bin Abdul Hussain.http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02772249009357512
1918 Hashim was born in Najaf (Iraq). (fact)In 1919 (fact), Abdul Hussain (apparently his father (speculation/long shot), who was born in Syria/Katana (fact)) left Iraq for emmigrating into the USA (fact). We don’t know whether or not he took his wife and his first son into the USA or else he might have left them at home (long shot). I can’t find any immigration papers for mother and son (fact).
Kadhim is also spelled Kazim . I found this name here in connection with SAIRA which had an office in London as well as Damascus and Teheran p230 here:http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RIB5qT9sGnwC&pg=PA230&lpg=PA230&dq=%22kazim+al-hilli%22&source=bl&ots=IUda-fAYAY&sig=PsAhizDPPvDysPYuXUY7ZQcx6yU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZO-OUJDHNeHT0QWA_oGoCA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22kazim%20al-hilli%22&f=falseSAIRI = Supreme Assembly of the Islamic Revolution of IraqLondon office quoted here in 2003:{http://arabnews.com/node/230288}Main Shiite Opposition Vows to Stay Neutral Until Regime Toppled AFP April 5 2003London SAIRI representative Hamed Al-Bayati* said if Washington “tries to exclude us, we will see what our position will be. So far this is not the case.”[*also Hamid – currently Iraqi Ambassador to the UN but for many years he lived in exile in London] His London address was Queens Park, NW6, handy for the Al-Khoei mosque]Perhaps this hints at observers at Claygate in 2003?
There are some new additions:
Kadhim al Hilli also is
Shaikh Hajj Kazim Abdel-Hussein
Reference:
http://www.ghaemiyeh.com/en/elements/dlibrary/?part=ready&action=study&pagenum=5&id=2519
In the same year, that is, 1989, the Grand Ayatollah al-Khoei established the London branch of this Foundation, appointing his son, Sayyid Muhammed Taqi al-Khoei, as its head. It is now located on Chevening and Salusbury roads. Its board, upon establishment, was comprised of these dignitaries: Sayyid Muhammed Taqi al-Khoei, Sheikh Muhsin Ali al-Najafi, Sheikh Yousuf Nafsi, Sayyid Muhammed al-Mousawi (of Bombay, India), Sayyid Fadhil al-Milani, Sayyid Majid al-Khoei (another son of the late al-Khoei), Sheikh Hajj Kadhim Abdul-Hussain, Sayyid Muhammed Ali Shahristani (a world renown philanthropist and founder of the Open Islamic University in London, a man who was born in Iraq and who had descended from an Iranian family), and al-Hajj Mustafa Kawkal. Sayyid Taqi al-Khoei was succeeded in this post by his brother, the late Sayyid Abdul-Majid al-Khoei who was assassinated in Najaf, Iraq, on Thursday, April 10, 2003. Following this tragic incident, Sayyid Yousuf al-Khoei, another son of the late Grand Ayatollah, became director of London,s Khoei Foundation. Another branch for the Khoei Foundation was established in Montreal, Canada, but information about it has not been available at the time when this text has been compiled for the kind reader.Late Grand Ayatolllah al-Khoei was born on November 19, 1899 and died on August 8, 1992. Following the demise of the late sage, Grand Ayatollah Abul-Qasim al-Khoei, the Shiite world, represented in Najaf,s hawza, Islamic seminary, elected Sayyid Ali al-Sistani to succeed him in this highest religious office. Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ali al-Husaini al-Sistani was born on August 4, 1930 in Mashhad, Iran, to a family of religious scholars. His grandfather, after whom he was named, was a famous scholar who had studied in Najaf
Bb
Btw., the al khateeb family is also completely into government positions, arab league and ambassadors. Just like al hilli, al saffar and al allaf family.
http://mobile.english.rfi.fr/europe/20121117-opposition-coalition-name-syrias-ambassador-france
http://www.mofa.gov.iq/en/articles/display.aspx?id=2lczYRQVuAs=
However, what i cannot understand:
Saad and Zaid went to the best schools. They had the best education possible. They were growing up in a family with top connections, their father handling the politics of Iraq from London and perhaps even more iraqi politics. Their first uncle being the UNO ambassador of Iraq in New York. Their grandfather being a diplomat in the USA from 1919.
Their second uncle being the general secretary of the Arab League and an ambassador.
Their mothers family being high ranked scientists at universities, smart and educated people. Their grandmas family being world’s top diplomats, ambassadors, Arab League leaders and UNO ambassadors. Their cousins being in the oil business, having contacts to top politicians internationally. Their cousin Balsam being in iraqi parliament and who married a greek ship company owner who isnt unlike Onassis.
But what were Saad and Zaid? One of them unemployed, the other one a golf club accountant, both struggling for money? Are they idiots? Surely not! Something is wrong here. They must do/have done some kind of other business that requires a covert up personal life. The logic does not comply with who they are and what they have worked for. It does not comply woth their life style nor with their struggling for money.
Something is totally wrong in that script. It just isnt logic. Something is missing and overseen here. They are/were acting somehow delibetately, just like intelligence agents would, would they? It simply doesnt fit the pieces together.
B
Marlin
Fadwa al saffar disappeared from the www. However, we certainly had her investigated here and you should be able to find results if you search this blog for “fadwa”.
About history?
Did you know that the AL SAFFARS were the rulers and kings of Iran, Afghanistan and part of Pakistan? They did come to the doors of Baghdad.
Yacoub ibn Layth al Saffar is a hero in Iran still today. You could easily compare his fame and glory with what is King Arthur for Brittany.
Amr (Ammar) ibn Layth al Saffar was his successor.
Still today the al Saffar family often uses the names “Yacoub”, “Ammar” and “Layth” for tgeir male successors.
Could this family just wait for taking over Iran and Afghanistan again like they did in medieval times? Now i am no longer surprised regarding their political stance and influence. We shall consider that.
Yacoub ibn Layth al Saffar was the famous “King Arthur” of Iran/Afghanistan.
Reference
http://english.irib.ir/radioculture/iran/history/item/82406-saffarid-dynasty-promoted-persian-renaissance
http://tajikam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2608.0
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0812-01.htm
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/saffarids/saffarids.php
That’s just to consider that we are not talking about “ordinary” families here. We are talking about royal blood and worlds top diplomats from the middle east. Not just iraq but also iran and afghanistan! This is just like as if the House of Savoye would like to claim back the throne of Italy.
And the al hillis are just in the midst of that. And they got financial problems? BS!
Iqbals family would have been able to solve their financial problems – if they had any – with the money from their stamp box. No! The two al hilli sons were setup and acted just like spies would act.
Bb
Just history 1200 years earlier than today, but note:
Yacoub al Saffar, the “coppersmith”.
Happened about the same time when Merlin, the “coppersmith” created “Excalibur” for King Arthur. Those having the best weapons will prevail ….
http://www.autowebmagazine.com/yaqub.html
Important question
Do we know how old Kadhim was when he died?
Was he > 90?
That would then link his birthday to 1914 rather than 1934.
Did we hear anything regarding his age?
Interesting Bleb
30 Jul, 2013 – 1:37 am. Israel undoubtedly has all the “previous” necessary for an assassination at Chevaline of that there is no doubt.
The Al Hilli’s and Mollier might theoretically qualify for Mossad intervention on a number of fronts. Prominent Iraqi family, possible Hezbollah connections, inside information about Israeli technical capability, possible technical help to Iran in the nuclear field, retribution for previous internet activity or even just a pointed message to British intelligence to stop meddling in the Middle East.
What we the public lack is any “hard” evidence that links them to it. This does not mean that this evidence is not available to the French or British, or maybe to others on the espionage jungle telegraph including obviously, Israel itself. We do not have the necessary tools to be able to distinguish between the various state agencies and their respective roles.
As to SAH’s atomic involvement the information below is pretty vague and relates to work at the Rutherford Laboratory in the mid 80’s. It says nothing about him going back to Iraq but as you say this is possible, even as an MI6 asset to keep London informed as to what was going on? This is just wild conjecture on my part although we can be sure that from the 80’s onwards London and Washington were both desperate to know what was happening on the weapons front inside Iraq.
Two things count against SAH going back there and working for the Iraqi government – his religion and background. Would SH have allowed him in to work on his most secret programmes with all the Shia and MI6 connections? Unlikely I would have thought. In addition I think it is generally agreed that post 1991 war little was done on either WMD or nuclear in which case SAH would have been unlikely to be recruited anyway. Of course I could be very wrong on all this, as was the whole intelligence community’s reliance on the phoney source “Curveball” for assertions to the contrary.
I am sure you have come across the Tinner’s case in which the Swiss State destroyed evidence that linked the CIA to their involvement with nuclear technology to Libya and Iran. Both geographically and topically, that case is on Chevaline’s doorstep so to speak.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/13/nuclear-smugglers-aq-khan-switzerland
“”The friend, who spoke to Saad shortly before his holiday, said: ‘He was extremely bright and hardworking. He came into Rutherford for a work experience placement when he was studying a degree at Kingston University in 1984, and he regularly came back in the summers.'”
http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/saad-al-hilli-chevaline-assassination.html
According to an ex-colleague at the Rutherford lab in Didcot, Oxon, Saad worked on a giant particle accelerator which can make radioactive material.
Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-nuclear-link-1314562#ixzz2aX0CBZQN
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
Mochyn69
30 Jul, 2013 – 4:38 am re “heretical” not because it’s my view of course. I was putting my mind into that of the respective families Roman Catholic and Shia Muslim. Of course all depends how seriously they took it. If both were orthodox, it would not be an easy match or ride. Maybe they discovered more that united than divided – a detestation of violence, or of British colonial power maybe?
Mochyn69
30 Jul, 2013 – 6:32 am and ref that prize winning Sunday Times article you have just come across this is the author who appears to have a certain penchant for crime stories.
http://www.davidjamessmith.net/about/
this listing is apparently not accessible by google despite its recency. That always makes me suspicious. Perhaps others might be more successful?
“Articles by David James Smith from The Sunday Times and Esquire …
http://www.davidjamessmith.net/articles/
23 Jun 2013 – Collection of articles written by David James Smith for The …”
but Bluebird
30 Jul, 2013 – 11:47 am (“may allah protect him/her”) you poured at least three gallons of cold water over my tentative suggestion that the al saffars etc might be part of a clandestine mi6 plan of keeping potential leaders in the wings as they did with the Shah and more recently with Allawi. Have you warmed to the possibility?
sorry about this one @ Tim V
30 Jul, 2013 – 2:38 pm. i can access it now. must have been my own stupid fault.
“The court also heard that Urs Tinner set up production sites in Dubai and Malaysia for producing centrifuge parts for enriching uranium, while Marco took care of supplies and book-keeping.”
http://beta.dawn.com/news/752150/swiss-family-involved-in-nuclear-smuggling-ring-avoids-jail
BB 2.09pm
Khadim was born in 1919 according to David James Smith of the Sunday Times. That is if we are talking about the father of SAH.
Thank you for posting that link, Bleb. The late Anders was fond of reminding the participants in this forum of those things. He was also prone to accusing various participants of such activities, even though his finger was pointed in the wrong direction at times. That being said, we have seen plenty of the points on the list played out, in open view, even after Anders pointed it out.
Here is your link again, for anyone who missed it, lest we forget: http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
@Bluebird 10:12 AM Now that line i can really go with. For some time now I’ve been wondering the same – Saad and Zaid’s modest life circumstances do not accord with their lineage aand the role played by so many other family members of that far-from-ordinary family. Add to that Iqbal’s family background and we get a really strange mix.
Note a couple more interesting factoids gleamed recently:
– From The SundaY Times article i gleamed that Zaid only married when the boy was already 7 years old. Strange, that. Did he ever remarry? we don’t know
– Saad used to ‘date around Surrey” according to reliable friend Mattews, before marrying Iqbal. The marriage is referred to as ‘successful” and :’loving”. Words that would be used to describe an arranged match.
Both Al hilli brothers were late in marrying, and in Zaid’s case, there were factors that delayed him marrying the mother of his child. perhaps parental resistance, perhaps something else.
What is even more striking is Iqbal – who is said to be 47(?) when she was killed. So that is kind of late for someone born to an Al Saffar family. All the more so if, as we now know, she was rather good looking, on top of being very well educated. Fadwa must have married earlier and has one child, now said to be in her teens.
Her mother, Suhaila, also a highly educated Al Allaf, leaves no traces on the internet. Everything there was in the open (and there must have been some) about Iqbal and Fadwa scrubbed, including fadwa’s husband and daughter (a teenager with no facebook?).
Taken singly, none of these facts add to much. But taken together, the picture is pretty much what one would expect from a family under deep cover. Living for decades lives designed to portray a well integrated, westernized people of Middle eastern origins.
I am reminded of the lives of Anna Chapman, the Russian “spy” in the US who lived a life perfectly ordinary, complete with family and all. There were several others in that “ring” with the same MO> their friends and close family members would never guess who they really were. That includes spouses sometimes. And children! not to mention a circle of close friends.
note how carefully they were paid – just enough to keep them in the middle class lifestyle they adopted. not enough to become high flying and noticed. keeps the individuals comfortable enough to not be desperate, but away from certain temptations and/or corruption that big money brings.
What are such deep covers for? sometimes it isn’t clear. Sure wasn’t in Chapman’s case. Plus they were all charged with relatively minor offenses before being repatriated, rather than any overt espionage. Such individuals may well be used as “eyes and ears” of a foreign service, their primary job to file reports on the workings of a society from within. get the ‘touch and feel” of the population, figure out where the pockets of dissent are. how it all works. maybe keep them there for a “rainy day” when their service might be needed for one significant action.
as Bluebird said the lives of Saad and Zaid do not add up, be it the “money troubles”, the late marriages and the familial information threads that seem to go nowhere. It’s like there was a concerted campaign to portray “ordinariness” – as Mattews (Fatbastard) said in his posts – they were just a regular british family. With children in school, nice bicycles, car9s) tinkered with and caravan vacations in the french Alps. A mechanical engineer working on contracts (never an employee, mind you…). A dentist working on certification. Doting parents with lovely children. A seemingly caring circle of friends – ready to adopt the children, as need be.
Oh Bluebird, now you really got me going! So I will try and do a Marilyn now (watch the marlin turn into a marilyn – may be I’ll become fluent in french?):
i have, I think, the beginnings of a story. A heart wrenching one with tragic overtones. A very complicated tale of humans and organizations on a collision course.
According to this story, Saad and Zaid do indeed live under “deep” cover. Zaid becoming an ordinary accountant at a gulf club with mucho dinaros flowing in and out, and Saad, an ordinary mechanical engineer, albeit a “bright and hardworking” one a periodically successful contractor to numerous industries but never a steady, regular employment.
For whatever reason – parents getting older, new assignments on the horizon, Saad becoming just ‘too well” involved in his English life, may be even going “hashing’ (what can be more “ordinary”?), or may be a bit lonely which can be dangerous for an agent. Lonliness causes people to do strange things and potentially stray from the path, right? may be date the wrong person? may be become a bit ‘adventurous”? may be just plain “depressed”?
So a marriage is arranged – just following 9/11 – to a very appropriate lady, who ‘the agency” figures will be just right to keep our roving Saad in line. Calm him down, so to speak. In comes the beautiful iqbal, another deep cover agent. They can keep eyes on each other, so the agency figures, plus keeps it all “in the family”. Plus get ready for the plans afoot for Iraq. A perfect arrangement.
then, lo and behold – it happens! the Chemistry is there and Saad and Iqbal really do fall in love, start a family, come to relish the life of the “ordinary” british middle class family for real. They love the activities for the children, Saad enjoys the bicycling, the car fixing on week ends, the caravan trips; iqbal is steadily becoming integrated with friends and other families met through the school. Slowly but surely, Saad, iqbal and family have acquired a ‘real” life, and they have become very fond of that life. May be they start thinking “to heck with all the cloak and dagger”. May be that’s what Anna Chapman thought as well. “ordinary’ middle class life for a well integrated and close family can actually be a very good and satisfying life. It contains after all, its own adventures. It was said that thing can compete with the process of watching one’s children grow and change and becoming involved in that change. The ultimate adventure at one’s doorstep.
But, that creates a problem for the “agency”. They are losing the commitment of their moles. People like saad and iqbal have no longer any desire to return to the killing fields of Iraq or the stifling artificial air of Dubai, where nothing is what it seems and where legions of South-east asian slaves are needed to just maintain the appearances of a “lifestyle. English life in a fine London neighborhood beats the weirdly gilded life of Dubai hands down. and, as said, “Ordinariness” is enobling. Especially when the affection is there, the flow of life can become extraordinary with its smoothness. many wrote wonderful books about just that…. With both Saad and Iqbal having discovered the peace that comes with life’s simpler pleasures, they become more difficult to manage. all they care about now is the happiness of their children and to heck with some ‘agency” machinations.
But that ‘agency” is increasingly worried that their investment may not pan off and that’s something that is unacceptable. Agencies and organizations are more ruthless than people because they have no heart. BSo they always seem to ftake into account that people do. In their heartlessness, they decide to give an assignment to Saad. promising him it will be the last one. In preparation they have him go and “rant” in chat rooms. complain about problems with his brother. Share confidences that may be he should just go back to Iraq. Mention the 800,000 “deal” to a neighbour. All adding up to providing cover for what ensues. saad does all that but with an increasingly heavy heart. he has dark forebodings. he can sense his perfect life is under threat.
momentary pause in the script as screen goes dark.
When the next scene opens, in comes Sylvain Mollier, another deep cover ‘mole, who lives in the charming little hamlet of Ugine, at the foot of the Alps. A place popular with tourists, bicyclists and campers. Sylvain is another ‘troublesome” mole – a bit of a “ladies man” just like Saad – but different – with a more french playbook. He busts his marriage, then gets together with claire, the beautiful daughter of pharmacists and one herself. They end up having a baby and Sylvain is in deep financial trouble. Something happened with his job. His new in-laws are kind of overbearing. he feels the weight of assigned lowly status. he wants to break out of his cover, go higher, may be get a degree, may be go places, now that his two older sons are becoming teenagers. the baby throws him off and Claire is, well, demanding. the wayward, conflicted Sylvain too is no longer trustworthy for the ‘agency’.
According to this story, the meeting at Chevaline is a test, contrived by one agency, in cognizance of another.
Shots of Sylvain and his fancy new bike. He gets all dressed up, has a chat with thierry, sets off among the Chevaline landscape.
In the distance, way up above, cows mooing and a shepherd is tending his flock. You can almost hear Heidi yoddle. But there, clouds seem to be gathering in the distance.
Cut to the waterfall above the martinet. a few farm houses. A chalet beckons. A shaded windy road, the sound of water drowning out the birds.
Combe d’Ire.
—— intermission—-
Stay tuned for the next Chapter – which, BTW, will bifurcate into two separate story lines (each following a different piste).
Am a bit conflicted on whether to add separate little chapters on the lives of bloggers. the ones who will act as a greek chorus. lots to invent and my imagination can only go so far….
Anders wouldn’t approve of the following:
You probably recall those missing and murdered scientist lists circulating on the internet. I wondered if there are any missing and murdered geomatics/remote sensing specialists. This led to a couple of cases of murdered extended family members of same. Two cases are not sufficient to form a pattern. Both could be cases of random acts of violence by madmen. Curiouser is the link to the same geographical institute. But there you have it, for background.
@Q – I’d say, why not use lateral thinking.
I’ve been trying to find (not very successfully) info about how the French authorities handled previous investigations into murders & bombings in France, probably carried out by “friendly” countries. Did they ever solve any?
Marlin
That family seems to get their children late.
Hashim born 1918 (or 14?) and Kadhim 1919.
Saad born 1959?, Zaid born a few years earlier.
Kadhim was at least 35 years old when he had his first child. Similar age for Hashim’s first.
Saad was 44? when he got his first child.
Seems to be a family plan to have education and profession as a priority.
OK, James Bond wasnt married and he had no children either. A busy life.
On the subject of “religion” and its impact on political dispute you may be interested in this Tony Blair / Christopher Hitchens debate if you haven’t come across it before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddsz9XBhrYA
Re-bailed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-23509424
Marlin
Re your last two long posts – very interesting perspective on sleepers and who SAH may have been working for.
Makes you wonder about the surveillance (parked in neighbours drive) that the SAH house was under in the run up to war. Given the huge number of Iraqi emigres in the UK, to have physical surveillance made them special, really special.
I guessed that this was protection, given that apparently one of the family was involved in persuading Iraqi military commanders to offer limited resistance. Remember that SAH himself took UKsian citizenship in 2003. Was that a reward or a loyalty test?
That was where I was coming from, so adding in your perspective, maybe he turned double native or was playing both sides.
P.S. I too am interested in the “£800,000 deal” SAH mentioned to a neighbour, but I interpreted it as ‘leakage’ not as forming part of a legend.
I leaned to the possibility that SAH had gotten involved with some ‘bad’ characters who he hoped could ‘facilitate’ the extraction of the moolah from the account.
P.P.S. To help with the geek (not greek) chorus I am vanilla, you know, mom’s basement, screen tan etc. Please show me in shadow profile, bag of chips in podgy hand, end with super close-up of green ascii reflected in my ill fitting glasses.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr have just lost the paragraphs by hitting the wrong key. more grrrrrrrrrrr. do i do it all again? arnt machines, or more correctly the limitations of the humans using them, infuriating?
RE: re-bailed from the horses mouth:
http://www.surrey.police.uk/news/news-stories/full-news-story/article/5748/man-re-bailed-in-connection-with-annecy-murder-investigation
the point i was making following on from BB above was the late age of iqbal at her marriage and birth of her children (40 and 43/4 by my calc) Also the strange delay of 7 yrs in the case of Zaid maybe supporting my suggestion of family/religious resistance. One gets the feeling, taking up Marlins outline for the novel! that Saad’s match was more successful less problematical than was Zaid’s?
The other point i was making was that given the family history and the centrality of the middle east to foreign policy and relationship with the US it would almost have been negligent of MI6 not to have made contact.
However given age gap, it would quite logical to assume that it was Zaid not Saad who was signed up first. By my reckoning he would have been 24 in 1983 soon after those Israeli raids and at the height of the IRA troubles. That’s why I have always been suspicious regarding the O’Rourke connection.
I know love is blind but that has to be a rather strange union, and we may assume under the watchful eye of MI5 too. Was it orchestrated as the source of weapons even then was a hot topic. The Libyan Embassy shooting was in 1984. Libyan arms were smuggled into NI in the 70’s and the biggest semtex delivery made to an Irish port in ’86. Intelligence sources connecting Ireland and N African countries must have been at a premium.
Then regarding finance, the “escrow” account is specifically designed to deposit funds in a Swiss a/c to provide financial security without giving rise to attention grabbing spending. As I suggested back along there is no reliable information about that 800 000 Geneva a/c. In such a secretive environment, we have to be more suspicious than ever about information released as it refutes the general ethos. It is put out for a specific purpose.
Do we believe the Germans who are up to their armpits in gladio intrigue themselves. Can we trust Switzerland who in the Tinner case actually admitted to destroying tons of evidence at the behest of the CIA? Do we believe the French who we have seen have promoted a “farago” (in Harold Wilson’s famous phrase) of lies? We can’t rely on any or all of them. So what if the 800 000 was actually provided by the British for services rendered. Its not beyond the realms of possibility you know.
Also given the context (Iraq trying to go “all-nuclear” and Saad being Iraqi with family connections to the regime – I didn’t say amicable ones) do really think some security check/clearance would not have been required for him to get into the Rutherford laboratories and be working on centrifuge technology of all things? I don’t believe it. This has the imprint of MI5/6 all over it.
anyway isn’t the irish wife an o’reilly ( Zaid married a nurse named Geraldine O’Reilly) not an o’rourke? was it you who suggested the o’rourke name BB? i certainly got it from somebody here. (According to Icke she died in 2007 from ovarian cancer)
A O’Reilly, Geraldine Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA) Found shot at junction ….. , 28 December 1972,
“March 5, 2008: Britain’s MI-5 (domestic intelligence service) has expanded its operations in the neighboring Irish Republic, after increased al Qaeda, and Islamic radical, activity was detected. Three Afghan men were recently arrested, in a room full of bomb making materials. There are dozens of similar suspects under surveillance. For the last three decades, Ireland and Britain have cooperated on domestic security issues, initially because of a mutual need to keep an eye on the IRA (Irish Republican Army) terrorists. The IRA has devolved into a criminal gang, but al Qaeda, and other Islamic radical groups have found Ireland a convenient place to hide out and plan their next atrocity. The Irish economy has been booming for the last decade, and suffering an ongoing labor shortage. If Islamic radicals can slip into the country, they can find work, and cover in the many immigrant neighborhoods. MI-5 has used its more extensive databases and capabilities to help the Irish counter-terrorism police identify potential terrorist cells.” http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t678892-2/
“Geraldine O’Reilly (14), Belturbet, Co. Cavan, while walking with her boyfriend, Patrick Stanley, outside Belturbet Post Office, killed by British paramilitary car-bomb. “http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=20738.155;wap2
and this … from the “Irish Republican News Service (99)”
“3. MI5 RECRUIT SIX-COUNTY SPIES
BRITISH MI5 spymasters have begun to recruit for their new Six-CountyHQ.
British Intelligence service applicants can now apply through the agency’s website for posts at the soon-to-open MI5 building in Holywood, Co Down.
It is the first time that the notorious British intelligence organisation has publicly advertised for staff in the Six-Counties, but despite the fact the location of the £20million Six-County base is known, the ads refer only to the “greater Belfast area”.
MI5 has placed ads on its Internet site for an English language monitor to study intercepted communications between al-Qaeda suspects.
It also wants to recruit “administrative assistants” and an “administrative officer” who will “compile evidence against terrorist suspects”.
The Holywood HQ, in the grounds of the British army’s Palace Barracks, will deal mainly with international radical groups, but agents there will also monitor Irish republicans.
The advertisement for the English Language Monitor offers a salary of around £22,300.
The £23,578 a year Administrative Officer post advertised on the website shows that MI5 staff at Holywood will be working across the Six-Counties and the UK.
4. ‘WE WANT THE TRUTH OVER 1972 BOMBINGS’
THE group, Justice for the Forgotten, called for the setting up of a commission of investigation into the garda investigation of British-backed loyalist bombings in the 1970s within the 26-Counties. The call came at the unveiling of a memorial to the two teenagers killed in the UVF atrocity in Belturbet, in Co Cavan on March 16.
Geraldine O’Reilly and Paddy Stanley were killed instantly in the blast on Belturbet’s Main Street on December 28, 1972. ”
http://admin2.fr.yuku.com/topic/7288#.Ufhcm42UQyk