The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
My point really was to raise basic questions about those two companies and SAH’s part in them. His association with AMS as Company Secretary appears to start in 2007 although of course he may have had professional links before. No one has, as far as I am aware, discovered what this company actually DID nor precisely SAH’s contribution to it. The strange thing to me is that with his technical background, why he should become its Company Secretary? Surely “Technical Director” might have been more likely. (ZAH with his accountancy experience was a far better fit at SHTECH.)
The other strange aspect I thought was the way in which on start-up, off the shelf companies were brought in that only lasted a few months, as Director (Professional Formations Limited)and Company Secretary (Abc Company Secretaries Limited). What was the company set up for and by whom? From April 6th 2001 James Barnett takes over as Director and “AMS Nominees” as Secretary until Saad comes along in 2007. There must be a reason, perhaps quite genuine, why he took on this post in what appears on the face of it, a construction company. I was rather hoping that BB with his superior search skills could find out more.
Now there appears to be another Edinburgh-based company of the same name with similar purpose. It predates SAH’s company by five years (1995 to 2000) This former entity provides the following information. Said James Barnett ISN’T a Director of this one as far as I can see. It does have a Frimley, Surrey base though. Stephen Martin is a
Principal Director.
“AMS Ltd have a proven track record delivering a professional project management service in five main areas:
Data & Telecoms Enviroments
Executive Offices
Specialist Programmes & Installations
Educational Developments
Retail Developments”
The company appears to provide specialist design skills in relation to computer industries in particular as with this one: “Burscheid Data Centre Upgrade PDF Print E-mail
AMS Ltd were appointed by Johnson Controls Automotive to provide a turnkey service to increase the power capacity at their EMEA Data Centre (World Hub).
AMS Ltd’s innovative design saw both increased resilience and capacity for the client within their programme and no impact to existing services. Total power was doubled to 2MVA and IT power increased initially via a modular, high efficiency UPS system from 600kVA to 900kVA. A bespoke 2.2MVA SBG was installed to supplement the existing and provide N+1 resilience to the site. The modular UPS design allowed the client to meet their initial requirements in the programmed time and finally increase their total IT capacity to 1.2MVA. High efficiency, free cooling chillers and environment controls supplemented the existing free cooling system.”
“Egypt, Visa Application Centres PDF Print E-mail
The past 18 months have seen AMS Ltd involved in 3 projects (2No Cairo; 1No Alexandria) principally the CSC/UKBA Visa application Centres.
The success of the recent Cairo VAC has caught the attention of many potential clients, based on the quality of the design, build and the speed of the implementation (a rare thing in Egypt), all due to the wealth of experience and contacts now associated with the AMS Project management team.”
Then another by the same name based at AMS Ltd.
Unit 6, St Stephens Court
15 – 17 St Stephens Road
Bournemouth
BH2 6LA
This one focusing on “Fax Solutions, Secure File Transfer and Document Output Management”.
“AIRINMAR Flies AMS for Secure Fax-to-Email Solution
Airinmar
An elegant, low-cost fax-to-email solution to handle and record multi-media document trails has been implemented by AMS for leading aircraft repair management specialists Airinmar. This means that an entire paper trial for any transaction, typically including multiple documents, can be archived as a single image file and manipulated at will into any other desired…”
http://www.ams-ltd.com/
Then there is this AMS Ltd.
“Aerospace Maintenance Solutions WELCOME TO OUR SITE
Aerospace Maintenance Solutions
is active in the Aviation Industry primarily during Product Development, Entry into Service, In-Service Support and Asset Management, working for manufacturers, Operators and Repair Organizations.
We have a dedicated team of highly-professional qualified engineers, with many years experience in the aerospace engineering sector.” Again NOT the one SAD was linked to as far as I can see.
http://www.amslimited.com/
Tim V, yes, both AMS and Shtech are strange. Agree about that “company secretary’ business. Seems like a good way to establish on line presence.
Could be innocent – like a little ‘side business”, or not.
Just like that “Fastdata Ltd” of Stedman’s.
Way too many “could be”s, if you ask me around the Al Hillis. way too many indeed.
Most normal consulting companies – ones set up a single person operation for tax purposes, are quite straightforward and easy to trace to the individual and the nature of their work. after all, they do want to attract more clients, no?
Unless that’s NOT what they want……
Tim V and others
Broadband problems solved, have now watched the MZT journey- a most uncomfortable experience –
which is obviously up a different road, more of a track for forestry vehicles, not the tourist road I went up.
Alex eventually came to “my” lay-by/car park from above, then looks like he went down the route des
Moulins back to Doussard. Find it hard to believe SAH would have driven up this terrible road for a family
outing, or that anyone asking him to go to a meeting would have suggested a place which meant he would have to come this way. I note that Alex said this was not a nice place to take your family, and this was my point, in my first posting.
On heading towards Annecy I noted the proximity of the Solitaire du Lac camp-site to the Annecy/Albert-
ville cycleway. This provides a physical link between the three cyclists SAH, SM and WBM, any two or all
three could have met up on this track briefly to talk or make arrangements or plans without being noticed or using phone or e-mail. Such an arrangement could explain SAH’s reported frequent short departures from the camp-site which were never explained.
@Marlin – I wouldn’t disagree with any of that. Last I looked, one of the new posters was tentatively suggesting some “off track” ideas. I think they were getting the “ignore” treatment.
And on this blog the reappearance of a poster from the distant past, apparently with the sole purpose of getting under the skin of another poster.
I’m not meaning you James 🙂
The “new” web site in 2008 has a heading “Directors” but no information appears to be given behind it.
On a general point I had thought one of the purposes of Companies House was to prevent the duplication of Limited Company names but obviously not for here we have at least FOUR with the same name, but SAD’s appears to have no web site.
Its address is Delta 606 Welton Road, Delta Office Park, Swindon, SN5 7XF United Kingdom. SIC Code 71129
Description Other engineering activities
So what has it been DOING for the last 13 years?
BTW, Tim V, I am getting very suspicious of James’ obvious attempts to needle you. Quite needlessly too. Way too deliberate. Personal animosity cannot explain it all, given the little he knows of you the person. Note however that it got you to already divulge a detail or two. may be that’s the intent.
Keep cool….is the only way. let them up their tactics to level 4 (MZT is, IMO, still at level 3, embodies by poster Lynda. They may have never needed to go higher, but are obviously prepared to, should the need arise). By my reckoning there are 6 levels of forum disruption. No wonders Anders was so perennially suspicious.
What do you think of Bluebird’s ‘sleeper’ theory BTW? the one i took up (and am turning into a script™)…with both saad and Zaid, and most likely iqbal as embedded by the same agency. Those AMS shell shell companies might fit the bill, no? the ‘going native’ scenario is however mine and I hereby lay claims to it by copy right….
Sorry I need to clarify that last one. I’m getting ahead of myself.
The first two paragraphs relate to http://www.amslimited.com/ post.
The third and fourth paragraphs relate to the company SAD WAS the Company Secretary of between 2007 and his death.
Sorry about that. No doubt brighter brains than mine will shine some light on this confusing company situation.
Well that was a fascinating little read. Thanks to Marlin and Bleb for your contributions. I think as usual, you are spot on as to MZT Marlin. I could understand them arguing a particular line. I cannot understand how they can refuse to even consider an explanation staring them in the face unless for an ulterior motive. Today I have been challenged and abused (I hope unfairly) by two contributors. Maybe they have different reasons for doing so. I haven’t seen much constructive contribution from either, only “blunderbuss” questions or assertions. We always want to accept contributors as “genuine”. In relation to some, that proves very difficult. On another level it makes me wonder if BB and others are discovering significant details that could never be expected and which give depth and context to the killings. I have tried in my inferior way to do the same. Perhaps we are tolerated because we are in a small room with only a narrow readership and little influence. What will happen when eventually the ideas forged here are picked up by national media?
James
Regarding Saad’s mother you probably mean the Shaaban family. Another family politically as active as the other 3 families were. One of them was even married to the Princess of Egypt, the Egyptian King’s daughter. I havent studied the relations but that family seems to have two branches. One in Syria, pro Assad and supporting Palestine, the other branch living in Egypt.
Stay tuned ….. (i am giving links)
Saad’s mother Fasiha al Hilli was born 12 Aug 1932 and she died April 2003 in Kingston upon Thames.
Fasiha al Shaaban
Her father was Zaid Saad Shaaban (Saad’s grandfather).
On August 28, 2011, the US Treasury and State Departments targeted Dr. Bouthainia Shaaban, and froze any assets she might have in the US.According to State Department spokesman, Victoria Nuland, who two US Senate Foreign Relations Committee staffers speculate may view Dr. Shaaban as a rival of sorts given their job descriptions, and Dr. Shaaban’s stellar performances during meetings with US officials both in the US and Syria, the explanation for blacklisting a Syrian nationalist and media advisor remains: “She (Dr. Shaaban) has served as the public mouthpiece for the repression of the regime.”
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2011/09/sanctioning-messenger-dr-bouthainia-shaaban-assaults-american-values/
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1998/380/people.htm
Shaaban was thereby marrying straight into the Mohamed Ali dynasty, as Princess Fawzia, King Farouk’s sister and the former wife of the Shah of Iran, was his new mother-in-law.
The marriage lasted for a few years. The only time Shaaban saw Princess Fawzia was the day Nadia gave birth to their daughter, Sinai — “a Pharaonic name”. Ultimately, Shaaban and Nadia were unable to withstand the collective resentment of the royal family, and Nadia went to spend the summer in Geneva. The marriage ended soon after.
The below is probably not the most prominent Shaaban but one who fits here better than anything besides of the woman mentioned in my first link.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/defendant-in-iraq-case-blasts-judge
Shaaban had testified that he and his twin brother worked for the CIA, and that in October 2002, he traveled to Syria to join his twin on a secret CIA mission to obtain information on Baghdad’s defenses.Shaaban testified that he never entered Iraq because Syrian officials confiscated his passport. During closing arguments Tuesday, Assistant U.S. Attorney Sharon Jackson asked why Shaaban didn’t call anyone from the CIA to testify.
http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_07_01/Morsi-will-be-overthrown-Ahmed-Shaaban-8686/
Secretary-General of the Egyptian Socialist Party Ahmed Bahaeddin Shaaban called on President Mohammad Mursi to cancel his visit to New York in protest at the recent insult to Islam’s Prophet in a US movie.
http://en.bidarieslami.com/view-657.html
Bb
I post that quote again because I assume that tim v. will LOVE this sentence regarding Iran:
“Shaaban was thereby marrying straight into the Mohamed Ali dynasty, as Princess Fawzia, King Farouk’s sister and the former wife of the Shah of Iran, was his new mother-in-law.”
More Shaaban links that are less exciting than the above ones:
http://www.americanuniversity.eu/graduate/ebtisam-ahmad-shaaban/
http://www.ameinfo.com/db-3361500.html
http://www.egyptindependent.com/node/196633
http://archives.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=19189
http://ivarfjeld.com/2009/09/03/syria-%C2%ABisrael-is-a-racket-of-stealing-organs-from-palestinians%C2%BB/
http://aub.academia.edu/KassimShaaban
http://www.chemistryviews.org/details/ezine/1059875/Women_in_Chemistry__Interview_with_Zeinab_Shaaban_Abd_El-Ati_Abou_El-Naga.html
Just for the records.
Bb
Blue… Very very interesting indeed.
Egypt, Syria were “issues” in August 2012.
…along with the PKK deaths in Paris.
So the cousin in Istanbul ? On business in Iraq.
Who is he ?
His grandmother is the same as Saad’s.
Oops !!!!!!!
What a find:
2 top Hezbollah leaders in the Shaaban family?
I always said that i smell Hezbollah …
Leaders: Said Shaaban, Bilal Shaaban, Hashem Minqara
What an interesting family on the mother’s side.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Unification_Movement
And: Hezbollah condems killing of martyr Ali Shaaban:
http://m.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/2012/Apr-11/169865-hezbollah-punish-shaabans-killers.ashx
Bb
James
Grandfather!!!!
His name was Zaid Saad Shaaban
Can you detect the significance of the first names of his grandchildren?
Hmmm !
The thing here is, ole “Hez” was to be a problem back in 2012.
Think back…
The “boots on the ground….if you do” statement by Al Assad.
Syria links in with Iran, and “Hez” starts the “second front” on Israel.
That how it was to play out.
Soooo… how did the the MSM get hold of the cousin from Istanbul (who was in Iraq at the time) so quickly ? Then “nada” ?
I think that was a “slip up” on their part.
Zaid ! And the eldest !
I’m trying to find this cousin.
He’s in Saad’s address book. That’s how the Daily Mail found him.
I would guess that’s how they did ! (could someone give someone a list of names ?????? Likely they did)
That’s how “Fat Bastard” was contacted.
He is who he says he is by the way.
Is Zaid Shaaban really Saeed Shaaban, the late Saeed Shaaban, the founder of the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD !!! (Saad’s grandfather?!?)
Partly rooted in the Muslim Brotherhood movement, Tawhid became a force in its own right in the early 1980s, when it articulated all three components of its ideology to mobilize large sectors of Tripoli in the direction of Islamization and greater local autonomy. The founder-leader of the Tawhid movement was the late Sheikh Saeed Shaaban, one of the key founders and leaders of the Lebanese branch of the Muslim Brotherhood when it was formed in 1962.
http://www.lebanonwire.com/1001MLN/10011216AT.asp
More about Sheykh Bilal Shaaban:
The Tawhid party is divided into two parts, one led by Sheikh Bilal Shaaban, a close ally of Hezbollah who is said to be financed by Iran, while the other is headed by Sheikh Hashem Minkara, a staunch Syria supporter.
After Hezbollah’s attempted military coup in May, “a radicalization of popular sentiment has certainly been observed in Tripoli,” said Future Movement and Tripoli MP Mustapha Allouch. This led to the increase of radicalism, he continued, which exacerbated the long-standing feud between Jabal Mohsen, an Alawi stronghold, and neighboring Sunni Bab al-Tabbaneh, two communities that have been butting heads since the 1986 massacre by Syrians of at least 300 Tripoli inhabitants
https://mobile.mmedia.me/lb/en/commentaryanalysis/behind_the_scenes_in_tripoli
http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/2007/08/syrian-jails-and-jihadis.html?m=1
Bb
And there you have it ! France !
Find the people he worked for….
…..and you’ll have the “killers” (sic).
James
There is no Shaaban living in Istanbul. OK, there is one, but he is a black dancer and he is just 23 years old. I had never read about that “istanbul cousin”. If so, he isnt from Saad’s mother’s direct family. However, i rather believe that this cousin was a red herring.
But thanks for your question, that way i could almost 100% confirm the Hezbollah link.
You have to go back to the start….
“A cousin of Mr Al-Hilli, who was contacted in Baghdad but refused to be identified, said: ‘If you investigate and find out about Saad’s job, you will know who’s behind his killing.’
The cousin, who lives in Istanbul but was on a business trip to Baghdad, added: ‘We have been told by the police not to say anything more.”
What is “written” isn’t important (well it is…but) what is important is that the Daily Mail had this “contact” with in a very short period of time.
It was “diffused” however.
James
That cousin could well be a “al hilli” from his fathers family side. I’ll check when i find time.
Meanwhile, interesting to read and important to understand. Recommended!
Quote:
The late Sheikh Saeed Shaaban had been impressed by the Islamic revolution of 1979 in Iran and sent both of his sons – Bial and Moaz – to Iran to learn more about the embryonic Islamic Republic taking shape in that country.
http://www.aawsat.net/2013/01/article55239248
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/LA13Ak01.html
http://www.lebanonwire.com/1001MLN/10011216AT.asp
Bb
BB
And the story of “Hossam Taleb Yaacoub”, the “24 year-old Swedish-Lebanese citizen”.
Laundry !
James
Negativ for istanbul.
I found a visa application for the netherlands applied for at the dutch embassy in istanbul by ahmed al hilli. However, i did not find anything about him living in istanbul.
http://embassy-finder.com/netherlands_in_istanbul_turkey
And then i found Akram al Saffar who apparently works in a 5 star restaurant as a 5 stars cook in Istanbul. But then – if he is related – he could only be iqbal’s cousin.
On the other hand, given the diplomatic background of these families, this Istanbul guy could work at an iraqi embassy even as an ambassador and meanwhile perhaps he lives somewhere else.
Sorry. Not much help here. I know.
However, i am excited that the most likely two brothers of Saad’s mother are current top Hezbollah leaders. (Saad’s uncles)
Bb
Oh and then there are the rather intriguing two “summers” and Fera who has now decided he DIDN’T go up that Combe d’Ire after all! Strange.
Marlin
2 Aug, 2013 – 12:07 am re. “Sleeper Theory” as you know the method was used by both “east” and “west” during the “cold war”. Gladio embraced it and so no doubt have all the the other countries into espionage. “Assets” arn’t always active. Sometimes they are merely “sympathisers with skills” intentionally placed and integrated awaiting the moment to be useful to their foreign boss. But then you know all this already – sorry.
As to the Al Hilli’s and the extended family of al Allafs and Saffars who knows. They are of a cadre as BB has so cleverly discovered that could be useful in any number of ways or situations. We would first have to decide who they were being sleepers for. Normally the country of residence indicates another country employs, so if this were applied to the Al Hillis we would have to conclude they were working for someone else – say Hezbollah or the Syrians, or Israel even.
The trouble is spies are fiendish difficult to label and ofter are double or even treble agents as in the classic 2nd WW “Agent Zigzag”. So the Iranians or Israelis say could be thinking SAH or ZAH was working for them, whilst all the time they were working for MI5/6.
If on the otherhand we mean “sleeper” in the sense of an asset ready to spring into some political role if required – rather like Allawi – then of course its possible either or both, or one of the Allafs or Saffars, may have been pencilled in for such a role. We just can’t know. Whatever plans might have been laid, this incident has probably scuppered them don’t you think?
Syria is in chaos. Who knows what will emerge there although because the West kept out, he seems to have strengthened his position. Eygpt is in danger of going the same way the irony being that the “Muslim Brotherhood” was it is claimed, largely a child of MI6/CIA rather like the Mujahideen. Sadly many of the proscribed organisations can trace their lineage back to western involvement one way or another.
Iraq still seems steeped in internecine warfare which may well have been exacerbated by US/Israeli actions following invasion. Is it likely that our three families have been lined up as front men? Unlikely I would say. But as players in the background but close to decision makers, now that’s a different matter as BB’s Allawi ref. demonstrated.
In the face of Palestinian terrorism, of Muslim converts to so called “Al-Qaeda”, of all-out war in Iraq and the mess that followed there and elsewhere, these families’ specialist inside knowledge would have been invaluable to spooks, the military and Foreign Office. Much more likely they filled this role whether pretending to work for someone else or not. Whatever their role, the way the British Government has responded to the murders, proves unquestionably they were valued and high status assets.
WOW BB! You’ve REALLY excelled yourself there. NOW we see where the family’s coming from!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ref Bluebird
2 Aug, 2013 – 1:58 am of course
From BB’s startling discoveries above
“But arguably the biggest Islamist current in Tripoli is the Tawhid (Monotheism) movement led by Sheikh Bilal Shaaban and Sheikh Hashim Minqara. Understanding this complex movement is crucial to unraveling the labyrinthine oppositional politics in Tripoli.
Tawhid movement: An unfulfilled promise
The Tawhid movement can trace its ideological heritage to the 1970s, where it took inspiration from Islamist ideology, Arab nationalism and pride in the unique local Tripolitanian culture and identity.
Partly rooted in the Muslim Brotherhood movement, Tawhid became a force in its own right in the early 1980s, when it articulated all three components of its ideology to mobilize large sectors of Tripoli in the direction of Islamization and greater local autonomy. The founder-leader of the Tawhid movement was the late Sheikh Saeed Shaaban, one of the key founders and leaders of the Lebanese branch of the Muslim Brotherhood when it was formed in 1962.
In the early and mid-1980s, as Lebanon sank deeper into civil war, the Tawhid movement took over the city and imposed a de-facto Islamic emirate. As its power and influence grew, the movement inevitably came into conflict with the Syrians, who were interfering more forcefully than ever in Lebanese politics.
The conflict climaxed in 1985-1986, when the Syrians launched an operation to oust Tawhid from power. At one point, even the then-Iranian president, Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei (the current leader of the Islamic Revolution), intervened directly in the conflict, urging the Syrians to desist from destroying the movement.
The pro-Iranian orientation of the Tawhid movement is what elicited the intervention at the highest levels of the Iranian government. The late Sheikh Saeed Shaaban had been impressed by the Islamic revolution of 1979 in Iran and sent both of his sons – Bial and Moaz – to Iran to learn more about the embryonic Islamic Republic taking shape in that country.
Following its ouster by the Syrians in 1986, the Tawhid movement has struggled to make a comeback. Today, the movement is effectively split into two factions; one led by Bilal Shaaban (a son of the late Saeed Shaaban), who is based in Abi Samra, and the other by Hashim Minqara, who is based in the Western Mina district. ”
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/LA13Ak01.html