The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Let’s set the question of whether or not this was about zirconium, novel nuclear weapons, espionage satellites etc. aside for a moment and ask ourselves: How could SM and SAH have met, and what (if anything) might have motivated them to work together. I really cannot see any good answers to those questions – can you?
SAH was a mechanical engineer, UK citizen, a Shia, had been to Dubai and Iran, may have leaned towards anti-Israel views.
SM was a french citizen, a metallurgist of some description, religion unknown, has voted for a party associated with Lyndon LaRouche, has never been to Iran or Dubai as far as we know, not known to have held extremist views of any kind.
It’s possible that SAH had communicated openly with SM about some technical, metalic aspect, and now wanted to meet him personally. And this contact got misunderstood by either Israeli liason officers at MI5 or by Israeli intelligence services directly, if the latter are able to follow electronic communication on their own. Of course it could also be US intelligence that read it and Israeli liason officers there read it too. And those Israelis employed som MEK people from Paris with a hatred for all Shias.
It’s been good to see some serious debate on here the last few days.
I don’t understand, if SM was meant to be so important at his work, how they could do without him for 3 years.
Iran has built a Zirconium Production Plant which, when completed, will be able to produce 10 tonnes of zirconium tubing per year for nucler fuel cladding. Construction started in 2004.
Ok, the Iran links are weak – Shia + Qom trip + possibly mother-in-law’s country of birth. And so are any SAH nuclear industry connections asid from RAL in the mid-8os. To be fair, I think it is worth finding out if Iran has or has not succeeded in producing nuclear industry grade Zirc. If they are having process difficulties, and SAH has active Iran links, then SM might have useful know-how.
Then one would have to consider (i) if either man was doubling or working for an intelligence service and (ii) who might have found out / been told and decided to stop them. Arrest may have been more likely if it were UK/French authorities but something may have gone wrong or it may have been others who intended punishment rather than capture.
@Peter
Let’s set the question of whether or not this was about zirconium, novel nuclear weapons, espionage satellites etc. aside for a moment
Awwwww… Peter… I’m so disappointed… !
🙂
You almost (inadvertently) led us to the truth…
So… anybody else….?
SAH worked at Rutherford Appleton Labs where they have a ……….?
He was applying for jobs at CERN which is a ………?
Which would make him an expert in ……..?
Answers on the dotted lines, please.
(Peter, Dave, enjoy yourselves speculating about where SAH & SM met. A clue: you’re getting coooooolder….)
If Anthony Lippman is indeed the son of Walter Lippman and if that is his brother:
http://www.politico.com/arena/bio/thomas_w_lippman.html
… Then we walked into a bee nest!
What if Anthony lippman and SAH were in the same team? Oh my God! With Lippman (if he is the son of walter lippman) we would be in the middle of the new world order conspiracy.
And there is something about mmta and anthonyr lippman from the uk parliament:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmsctech/726/11021602.htm
@Ruby
It’s been good to see some serious debate on here the last few days.
I don’t understand, if SM was meant to be so important at his work, how they could do without him for 3 years.
Research scientists (including metallurgists) can take sabbaticals.
Now I say “openly” – because I don’t know how sloppy he was — but it is possible that they used skype, which is encrypted,- and Saad thought this was enough [But perhaps it >strong>can be read by intelligence services? What do you think?] . Saad was quite confident because he didn’t think it was something big he was up to, and it probably wasn’t – but it got misunderstood.
Anthony Lippman … SON OF WALTER LIPPMAN?
SAH a man in the middle secured by linx from walton upon thames? Mr Martin?
No surprise if there were a D-notice.
CD, you should quote som dubious and tendentious material from a person named “David Albright” – brought in here accidentially by Ferret, who wanted to prove that no “Whacking” [sic] had taken place in these instances.
@Kenneth
You should bring some examples of some cases of nuclear smugglers to Iran who *did* get whacked, instead of simply throwing mud at some of the sources I quoted, if you want to prove your point.
I have asked you (and others) to post some, as you seem to doubt this point still, but so far I am still waiting.
So my point is good.
Nuclear smugglers to Iran don’t get whacked, whether or not David Albright says so.
(Nice distraction from the “what kind of expert was SAH” conversation, by the way…)
So… anybody else….?
SAH worked at Rutherford Appleton Labs where they have a ……….?
He was applying for jobs at CERN which is a ………?
Which would make him an expert in ……..?
Answers on the dotted lines… anyone???
I was saying to CD that it was wrong of him to seize upon this tendentious story (which we don’t know is true) written by one David Albright about all those tonnes of zirconnium, – stories that was brought into this forum by you in order to prove something entirely different.
Now, let’s search for potential commonalities. Facts: SAH was a regular visitor to France – could have met SM on a previous trip. Both loved cycling – met by chance whilst cycling? Participated in the same race? Unlikely, but possible.
Hypothetical possibility: SAH also did some contracting work for Areva and got to know SM in that way.
Hypothetical possibility: SM also was a closet jihadist like SAH and they met through an Internet forum.
Hypothetical possibility: SM also owned a BMW and met SAH through some owners’ club forum.
Hypothetical possibility: SM and SAH were introduced by some mutual acquaintance.
Of all those, my gut feeling (sorry) says that the mutual acquaintance is the most likely. Perhaps that mutual acquaintance was an engineer in the nuclear industry, or employed by a company linked to the nuclear industry.
But what could have motivated SM and SAH to work together on some dodgy undertaking that could have got both of them killed? In that regard, SAH offers plenty of angles, plenty of potentially dangerous people whom he may have sympathized with or whom he might have crossed. By contrast, SM is a blank sheet of paper. We just don’t know anything about his religious or political views apart from that vote for the Lyndon LaRouche party (and he may not even have realized who was behind that party). Other than that, we just don’t know.
@Kenneth
Oh, sorry. You mean this?
Iran has built a Zirconium Production Plant which, when completed, will be able to produce 10 tonnes of zirconium tubing per year for nucler fuel cladding. Construction started in 2004.
I’ve come across this idea a number of times when researching… seems to be quite widespread… even Dave B mentioned this in one of his posts earlier, before I brought those links into the conversation!
🙂
There is some debate about the quality of the tubing, I understand.
@CD
Nice theory – hangs together well. What if SAH had something to bring to the party other than just his Iranian connections though? Have you factored that in?
Ferret,
I believe SAH is a design engineer, a mechanical solutions man. That would make him (like some engineers of my acquaintance) a possibly gifted problem solver (the trailer for the tandem, the BMW fixer, the functional aero interior element design) rather than an expert in any particular field. He has a widely applicable skill set.
So, as a design engineer (a modeller rather than a physicist) he may have aspired to work at the cutting edge. We have no information that suggests he was anything other than this.
Bluebird, could you try to elaborate about what those Lippmanns have got to do with anything, because I think it went over many people heads. Remember many people do not hjust click on links, but would like a briefing about what are in those links.
@ Kenneth Sorensen 4 Oct, 2012 – 11:42 am
I know for a fact that Skype offers an interception interface to law-enforcement and intelligence agencies allowing them to monitor conversations en clair. The point was raised during recent court cases in Germany questioning the legality of trojan-horse malware used by german agencies to intercept Skype conversations at source.
@CD
OK, thanks, I guess we’ll just have to agree to differ.
🙂
@Peter
Link?
@Everyone
Peter has given the whole game away in his last few posts.
Then he backtracked when he realised he’d almost stumbled right into it…
Whooops!
A total and utter giveaway.
🙂
I’m not going to spell it out… not just yet. More pieces to put in place, more evidence to gather…
Hopefully someone else will pick up the scent… and put the pieces together too…
The more of us that are at it, the better.
OK thanks. Skype was invented by a Swede, Niclas Zennström, and a Dane, Janus Friis, who subsequentedly sold it to Ebay. [Which always seemed like a mistake, because the scope for this system always seemed broader than just conversation between sellers and buyers on som obscure website, and I also understand that it hasn’t been a succes for Ebay] Do you know if this backdoor got installed while it was owned by the Americans?
There is one more post of mine awaiting moderation, sorensen.
Since the begin of this threat we are speculating about hafnium/zirconium trading.
I have found Lippman & walton ltd in walton upon thames (few miles from claygate).
Anthony Lippman is the manager of this company and he was chairman of MMTA. M mta is the organisation responsible for world trading of rare elements. Amongst those elements is hafnium and zirconium.
Anthony Lippman and MMTA actually control world trade of nucler materials and elements.
I did provide some links to understand the background. The security firm protecting their MMTA trade and protecting MMTA members is also located at Lippmans walton upon thames address. Remember: zaid lives in walton upon thames, too!
If SAH had something to do with Mollier and zirconium then we should also link MMTA into the theory and then we end up once again in walton upon thames.
Not many English-language links on the Skype issue, unfortunately, because this was about a number of German court cases
http://ijure.org/wp/archives/833
What it doesn’t mention there is that both Skype (= Microsoft) and italian law-enforcement confirmed that this interception interface exists and is regularly used by law-enforcement agencies in Italy.
When this interface was introduced, I don’t know, but it is clear that Skype was originally designed to be difficult to intercept (which is why a cottage industry dedicated to interception-at-source has blossomed in Germany).
Of course you never know with those Swedes, what I mean you never know if Zehnström installed this backdoor,- after 9/11 some pressures could have been exerted on Skype.
“which is why a cottage industry dedicated to interception-at-source has blossomed in Germany”.
Doesn’t sound good, and I wouldn’t have thought that Germany with all its inherentAngst regarding surveillance (think: Stasi), would venture down this road.
More links regarding lippman from walton upon thames.
http://www.lipmann.co.uk/articles/MMTA_zirconium.html
http://www.lipmann.co.uk/articles/MMTA_hafnium.html
What it doesn’t mention there is that both Skype (= Microsoft) and italian law-enforcement confirmed that this interception interface exists and is regularly used by law-enforcement agencies in Italy.
So… no proof then.
We’ll just have to take your word for it!
😀
Generally all this terror-hype (which presumably is the reason why this backdoor is included in systems like skype) is wildly exagerated,[Stephen Walt had a blog yesterday* where he points out that 30,000 Americans are killed by guns every year – and that just a few hundred have been killed by terror since 9/11] and a lot of money is made out of it all araound. It is important to remember that any serious terrorist in spe, wouldn’t use electronic communication at all, but use the age old way of exchange: courier, like they use them in Afghanistan/Pakistan – countries that have prime experience with terror.
—-
*) {http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/02/what_id_like_to_ask_obama_and_romney}
When we can link SAH to MMTA chairman Anthony Lippman from Walton upon Thames and when we can link Anthony Lippman to his (father?) Walter Lippman, then we are straight in the middle of CFR. That would fit once again with D notice and Iran war. THEN EVERYTHING WOULD MAKE SENSE for the first time.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_Foreign_Relations