The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
re: “humble” position of SAH & ZAH
I think too much weight can be given to family.
Family fortunes can decline, children do not necessarily hold the same opinions as their parents, especially if in a new country with a different culture.
I really don’t think the Chevaline killer(s) were motivated by Islamic politics. I do think a focus on Islamic politics diverts the spotlight.
Why do I think that? Because the joint investigation would have taken a very different path, with “terrorists” very quickly being fingered.
So for me it is either the “friendly” state with “previous” or just possibly a criminal conspiracy.
Fera…
I for one would like to hear more to be honest.
I have never been there.
How could a person get to this other route ?
[Mod/Jon: removed, abusive]
I think the gist of the cousin thing is that according to FB the Istanbul cousin reported in the Daily Mail doesn’t exist on Saad’s facebook ,Hussain is a cousin and was on Saad’s Facebook as reported in the Telegraph so the Istanbul cousin is still a mystery.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2203934/Did-gunman-trail-Alps-massacre-victims-way-home-Britain.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/9762604/Alps-murder-Truth-about-Saad-al-Hillisfamily-feud.html
Marlin
You are correct, however the Lebanese and the Syrian muslim brotherhood is traditionally pro hezbollah and hezbollah supporter. I posted some links several days ago, regarding the history of the lebanese muslim brotherhood and its support for hezbollah. Understanding history is very important here.
Only in the recent 10 years there is an international splitting between sunni and shia. 50 years ago there was no issue between sunni and shia muslims. In fact 70 years and earlier, even sephardim jews married sunni or shia muslims and there were neither religious nor any political issues. The Arab society was much more tolerant one decade ago than it is today.
That is exactly why i said that there could have arisen a blood feud between the two families after Fasiha’s death in 2003. That is why Saad might have turned towards the support and interest of his mother’s family after the death of his father and what might have upset Zaid. Or it might have been different, that Zaid turned into support of his mothers family while Saad was still defending his fathers will.
If it happend like that, of course we would have had money issues between both families, too. Btw. Saddam was Sunni, too. And until 1980 he did quite well with his Shia friends.
There is a little bit history on the strong Muslim Brotherhood/Hezbollah relations particularly in Lebanon. It was the Hariri assassination that created the first distrust between both groups. This is quite a lot text but this is necessary to understand the political and religious background. What MSM is telling us regarding the Sunni-Shia conflict is MI6/CIA/Mossad propaganda and far from reality.
http://www.currenttrends.org/research/detail/the-brotherhood-and-the-shiite-question
Because of this ideological kinship, the connections between the Brotherhood and Shiite Islamists have been well-established. Indeed, the two revivalist streams were already exchanging ideas in the early 1950s (if not earlier), through the contacts established between the Egyptian Brotherhood and Navab Safavi, the leader of the “Fadaian-e Islam” organization that carried out a series of assassinations in Iran in the early 1950s in an effort to “purify Islam.” Safavi once was quoted as saying, “Whoever wants to be a real Jafari [Shiite] should join the Muslim Brotherhood.”[2]
Hezbollah was vocally supported by Shaykh Fathi Yakan, a well known Brotherhood thinker and preacher and former leader of the Egyptian movement al-Jamaah al-Islamiyyah. In 2005, Yakan formed and led a rival to al-Jamaah al-Islamiyyah called the “Islamic Action Front,” a coalition of Sunni groups whose power base was in Tripoli, in the stronghold of Sunni opponents of the Hariri family. Shaykh Yakan stated that he was proud of being an ally “of all the free and noble people in the world,” including Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, and (after it voiced its support for Hamas in the 2008-2009 Gaza war) Turkey.[17] He also denied charges that Shiite leadership of the “resistance movement” to Western hegemony in the Middle East was having the effect of turning Sunnis into Shias.[18] On December 8, 2006, Yakan led, as the Imam, the Friday prayer of the Shiites who were laying siege to the offices of the “March 14” Prime Minister Siniora.[19] (Yakan died on June 13, 2009.)
http://globalmbreport.org/?p=1112
“Some of the leaders that were founding Hezbollah were linked to Al-Jamaa, and they were coordinating with each other,” he said.
Around the time of the Israeli invasion, Sheikh Said Shaaban broke his ties with Al-Jamaa and formed a more militant Islamist group that followed the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood’s perhaps most notorious early member, Said Qutob. By 1984 Shaaban united Tripoli’s militant Islamists into the Islamic Unity Movement and controlled something of a state-within-a-city.
Then-Syrian President Hafez al-Assad, who at that time had recently crushed a violent rebellion by the Syrian branch of the brotherhood, moved against Shaaban and all but annihilated his group.
While Al-Jamaa fought with Hezbollah during the July 2006 war, the group fell out with the Party of God during the political turmoil that followed. Omayma Abdel-Latif, an Egyptian journalist and former projects coordinator with the Carnegie Middle East Center, and Ahmad Moussalli, a professor of Political Science and Islamic Studies at the American University of Beirut, argue Al-Jamaa’s motivations were sectarian as Hariri’s 2005 assassination widened a political divide in the country that found Sunni and Shia leaders on opposing sides. Hammoud, however, said Al-Jamaa made a policy decision and rejects the struggle between the two communities
Tim V, I hope you didn’t get too discouraged by that string of james’ immoderate comments. Please bear in mind that making someone like you go away may be exactly the purpose of rants that seem to come out of nowhere.
For quite a while it was my belief that the method that will be used to shut down discussion on this site will most likely resort to personal jabs in an attempt to elicit response so that discussions will degenerate to pointless back and forth, therefore discouraging others who would wish to comment.
At this time, this site is the only one where free-wheeling discussions about Chevaline continue to be carried out. Other blogs either lost interest or confined commentary to very narrow parameters, so that attempts to stray outside those will be met either with silence or outright banning. Which, BTW< is all one needs to know as proof that there are agendas behind those blogs (using plural for a reason here). But CM never had a ruling agenda, even when some tried to bring one in.
Even now, Bluebird's investigations of family connections of the Al Hillis continue to be of great interest. Some of these may be connected to the reasons the family was eliminated – but in any case, it's worth knowing to complete the picture. You Tim V brought in many other potential links of interest, some of which may, again, just fill in the background, or speak to the motivations and MO's of the potential agencies involved. Those items of interest are largely the reason I am still here.
That being said, I don't think it's coincidence that james started to go all intemperate all of a sudden, just when he started posting on MZT, Bluebird uncovered some interesting family links, and the reversing BMW scenario has all but been discredited (no matter how much some might like to resurrect that. It's over and the le Monde scenario was wrong, and someone fed it to them, someone who was in the french police). I hope I was able to cast some doubts of my own on silly scenarios being propagated by some people no matter that all facts point away from them.
And between the two of us, the ground has been laid quite well I think for the involvement of certain agencies in this oh-so-very-professional "hit". Everything james brought up for example to cast doubt on the "professionalism" of the killings only ended up reinforcing just how very professional the execution was. We do not know exactly what role which agency played, or what the motivations were, but have our suspicions, on which we have speculated plenty. Yet, on this site, no one is entirely eliminating the possibility that one of those agencies could be a criminal one, for example. WE just know there was more than one agency involved simply from the post-crime behavior of the authorities.
Obviously if the hit was executed by some criminal outfit, then for whatever reason the french police have reason to cover up for them, as do the British. Some gladio type involvement is not out of the question either, if only as mode of operation and/or after-the-fact support.
I can only hope you and others will continue to comment now and then on matters of related to Chevaline – even if seemingly far afield, and even though the forum will continue to be invaded by agendized posters and/or the occasional troll, as seems likely.
Marlin
I’m right with you re the above. All that you say rings true. Please Tim V come back.
I dont know what james wrote in that moderated post.
However, in political discussions it was always evident that when you were coming too close to the truth, that either spamming or trolling started to destroy any sane discussions.
I dont care what others are trolling about me. And tim v. shouldnt care either.
This isnt a board about our fame and self confidence but something that should help finding the truth.
Back to topic.
TOR network and encryption founder Eric Marques was arrested on CP charges in Ireland. TOR is said to be used for CP distribution and they say that therefore he is the biggest CP distributor on earth. He faces 30 years jail in the USA.
Marques grew up in Ireland. His father Antonio Marques was working as an architect for Irish rail stations and he married an Irish woman. Since 2010 his father is working in Dubai and Abu Dhabi for Etihad rails.
Most recently Eric Marques tried to get visa for Russia when he heard about Snowden. Before he received his visa, Marques was arrested.
Bluebird, that’s some news about Eric. Is he going to be extradited to the US? very strange BTW. I know about Tor of course. But what is CP (sorry not familiar with the acronym – anything to do with copyrights?).
Shades of Aaron Swartz?
Marlin & Jennywren – I’ll third that. Hopefully Tim is just doing other things for once.
Bluebird –
“… However, in political discussions it was always evident that when you were coming too close to the truth, that either spamming or trolling started …”
Agreed. I’ve even attempted to understand what starts this off on here (unfortunately it is beyond me) to know when someone get “warm”.
re: Eric Marques
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/fbi-bids-to-extradite-largest-childporn-dealer-on-planet-29469402.html
Very odd and very convenient.
Marlin
P stands for porn
C stands for child
CP = ….
I dont want to use this word here. Next of being said to be a terrorist, cp is even worse than that. Those are Eric’ charges and it looks as if he would be extradicted to the US.
Eric Marques was running TOR Freedom Hosting with half of the TOR sites being hosted there. Of course there were illegal users doing illegal things, too. Of course criminals love to use such a service, too.
However, this is the first time that an ISP is being accused of being a CP distributor. Thats a new step versus encryption and anonymous services.
Fera
3 Aug, 2013 – 8:03 pm – First, apologies if I assumed wrongly that you were male and thanks for correcting me. I still can’t get your post however.
You say: “…he seems to have gone up the Combe d’Ire on a torestry(sic) track, whereas I went up the straight, well-surfaced road evidentlly(sic) intended for the use of tourists…”
As far as I am aware, there is effectively only one direct route to the Martinet crime scene. It is an extenuation of the metalled roads that meet up just before the Combe road itself where the Gendarme set up its blockade/check-point.
If, as it would appear from your post, and what might be expected from being in the immediate area at the time of the murders, you have followed this story, let alone driven the road in question, I just cannot comprehend how you could be confused on this point?
Perhaps I should explain that one of “mine” posted at “Tim V
3 Aug, 2013 – 4:06 am” was done by a visitor fooling. He’s Cornish which explains it!
Agreed Bleb
3 Aug, 2013 – 9:19 pm. It is a logical observation I have made many times previously. However although we can take the Al Hilli killings out of the Middle East, I don’t think we can take the Middle East out of the Al Hilli killings!
As I have said many times, in deference to Sherlock Holmes: “When you have eliminated all the likely causes, what is left must be the explanation however unlikely it may appear.”
A combination of photographic and other evidence, plus the demonstrated actions of the French and British, in my opinion can only be construed as pointing to State involvement.
If the victims were involved in a criminal enterprise, after eleven months (today!) of intensive investigation by a huge co-national team of about a hundred, it would have been uncovered by now and more importantly there would have been no reticence on the part of the police to say so.
If the victims were totally innocent by-standers who happened upon criminal activity by others and were shot merely for being witnesses, don’t you thing this also would have been firmly nailed by “underworld sources”, not least because children were involved? Anyway French Police have ruled out other vehicles being there, which firmly sinks a criminal assignation.
An attack by a “terrorist group” is virtually ruled out because invariably they like to claim responsibility (if they are). Which leaves only a the single nut/psychopath floated by EM, which even he now has firmly rejected in a statement.
So to the doubters and scoffers I say, what other explanations, other than State involvement either acting directly or utilizing arms length professional killer(s), are there?
Have just caught up and because James appears to have suffered at the hands of the moderator I didn’t have the dubious pleasure of reading them. Sometimes it’s best not to know. “What the ears don’t hear the heart can’t grieve over” they say. More interesting in my mind is that I don’t believe these attacks are random.
As Marlin has analysed to certain extent, they become targeted when there is reason. I am guessing it is when a “point is scored” or a truth uncovered, that it is important to someone to keep hidden. If we had time and energy, correlating the two might prove illuminating. In this context I am rather surprised given the superlative family tree work by BB he/she hasn’t been targeted more.
I appreciate the supportive remarks by several contributors btw.
Who would have thought we would have kept this blog going for almost a year and thereby the topic “alive” in a tiny corner of the internet at least? And in self congratulatory mode I think we have done more to cast doubt on the official story and throw light on background than all of the rest of the media put together.
We may hope that when the “anniversary stories” start to emerge, some of the stuff here will be incorporated. Whether they will acknowledge the source is a moot point. Even if they don’t we shall have the satisfaction of knowing who did.
Bluebird‘s explanations re. his claim concerning the grandfather of Saad’s links to an organisation which was set up i 1982 — Hetzbollah — are not satisfactory, and has all the hallmark of embroiling us with tons of indigestable obscure stuffs hoovered up all around the internet. Heck, anyone can prove anything using the internets more than 1 billion pages, but I WILL NEVER read this dubious stuff, but want it presented by respected people, such as Steve Coll and the retired diplomat Chas Freeman (on Afghanistan/Pakistan) and someone similar who is a specialist on Lebanon.
The foresty tracks that Freya mentioned has always seemed to me like the most likely route taken by the killers either to and from, or both (but then presumably only part of the way, because you would want to get away quickly, unless you’re unusually calm, and roam about in the forest for weeks or even months until all the fuss has died down).
Tim, James ,K.Sorensen
I was in Annecy (north end of the lake) on the day of the shooting, never having heard of Chevaline – well to the south of the lake,afar less developed area – before seeing the news next morning. My recent trip to the Alps,the actual mountains, not the Annecy area, was 2nd week in July; the way back to Geneva airport goes by Annecy so did a quick detour. As media reports I had read referred more to Combe d’Ire than Martinet I simply followed that road up the hill and soon arrived at the lay-by/car park which matched the descriptions of the crime scene,including a further bi-lingual sign warning against going up the road beyond the barrier. I called “my” road a tourist road because the sign is in English as well as French, and it is user-friendly, steady gradient and well surfaced (tho’ it might have been resurfaced since last summer, given the extra traffic following the crime). I didn’t spot any sign for Martinet near Chevaline;
I think Alex on MZT put Martinet into his satnav and was directed up the track through the woods,which I would not have attempted without 4WD. Very likely the killer(s) used this way either to or from the crime scene, given a vehicle of that type figures in reports from the area at the time.
When skimming this thread before posting I was surprised that no-one seemed to have made the trip to
Chevaline, etc., given the degree of interest,even obsession,with this mystery.
Fera
5 Aug, 2013 – 1:07 pm – I have to say your posts invariably puzzle me.
You would have us believe that despite being in the area at the time of the murders, despite the initial blanket coverage of the event, despite going back and covering the route, despite all the photographs of the police barrier next to that iconic sign that you refer to, you could mistake it for the lay-by at which the murders took place and be able to speak authoritatively on the time the Al Hilli’s (three and half minutes!!!!?) would have taken them to get there, and how this supported the tenuous theory of them back-tracking to Arnand?
This simply stretches my credulity to breaking point. Then compounded by the fact that despite you said only just discovering this web site – again after so many months -yet you claimed to know my view on an intentional meeting buried somewhere in thousands of words of text way, way back. This too is simply not believable.
Now you propose this latest explanation for confusing the murder site, ably encouraged I noticed by the frequently expunged “James”. I’m afraid I view all this as highly suspicious as it has no rational explanation.
You say:
“When skimming this thread before posting I was surprised that no-one seemed to have made the trip to Chevaline, etc., given the degree of interest,even obsession,with this mystery.”
Do I detect a slight slur on the contributors here? A dagger pressed gently? Again I question how your conclusion could be reached from your described action. How could “skimming the thread” have revealed that “no-one had made the trip to Chevaline”? It would either only be formed by detailed reading over months or be an assumption I presume.
In any event, given the wildly wrong conclusions you came to, that weirdly supported the story put out by the French authorities, the fact that you visited and we didn’t, seems to have conferred no benefit whatsoever.
Further a very familiar and much used method of undermining the logical objections of commentators that prove inconvenient for Government, is to claim mental disorder, of which “obsession” may form part. We have the well-known phenomenon of “victim blaming”. We have numerous examples of law enforcement agencies casting aspersions on the victim to throw attention off either action or inaction on the part of the agency involved, even carrying out covert research to discover it as in the case of Stephen Lawrence. How easy it was to suggest the Al Hilli’s were linked to a homicidal maniac and been paid by him?
The 46 year old Haydar Thaler was perhaps too conveniently sectioned and locked away before the event. Few question whether the stated reason for doing so and the story issued to the press was or was not the real reason. Just because the Soviet system of locking dissenters in asylums may have run its time in the face of widespread criticism, (they prefer trumped up charges and prison nowadays) doesn’t mean that similar tactics are not adopted in the west as the case of Susan Lindauer and others demonstrates. (Incidentally I noticed James poured scorn on that one as well)
I have lost confidence in the BBC and British press to investigate anything involving the US or British governments dispassionately or critically. Today we have previews of a Panarama programme on the “Boston Bombings” which appears to be just slavishly churning out the government line without asking a serious question. Yet more of 9/11.
That’s why I have stayed with this site and subject Fera. I am sick of being lied to. Label that “obsession” if you wish.
Dear, Freya – please ignore this female hating individual, .
🙂
He’s definately not of good English gentlemanly stock, but is in fact American, which should explain everything.
I think it was very refreshing to hear a firsthand account of the route, because you’re right: Most here are couch potatoes who only rarely venture outside their confined space and computer room. They just go out to buy coke and chips, and then sits on their back sides ranting.
For the uninitiated Wikipedia has this:
“Susan Lindauer (born 17 July 1963) is an American journalist and antiwar activist.
In 2003 she was accused of conspiring to act as an unregistered agent for the Iraqi Intelligence Service and engaging in prohibited financial transactions with the government of Iraq under Saddam Hussein.[1][2][3] Lindauer was found mentally unfit to stand trial in two separate hearings. During her incarceration she won the right to refuse forced antipsychotic medication which the United States Department of Justice claimed would render her competent to stand trial.[4][5] She was released in 2006 and all charges were dropped in 2009.[6]”
“It followed revelations that leading anti-racism campaigner Mohammed Amran was the subject of a potentially damaging special branch report prior to his giving evidence to the inquiry in Bradford. A number of junior officers from West Yorkshire are also being investigated by the IPCC after being referred by the present Chief Constable.
Greater Manchester Police has also been referred over an internal memo suggesting intelligence was gathered on individuals or groups attending the inquiry in the city.
The cases are likely to be reviewed by Mark Ellison QC – who successfully prosecuted Gary Dobson and David Norris for Stephen’s murder in 2012 – as part of an investigation into the Metropolitan Police following claims of a smear campaign against the teenager’s family and friends made by a former undercover officer.
The inquiry will need to uncover whether the regional forces were acting on behalf of the Met, which was embroiled in one of the biggest crises in its history following the repeated failings to investigate the student’s 1993 murder. It was eventually found to be “institutionally racist” by Macpherson.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/five-police-forces-investigated-over-alleged-stephen-lawrence-smear-campaign-8691089.html
@Fera
Here is a link to google maps starting at Rue de la Poste, Doussard, can you trace the route that you took from this by any chance and tell us which road you used please ?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Route+de+La+Combe+d'Ire+Chevaline+France&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.774797,6.224699&spn=0.00003,0.024719&safe=active&hnear=Route+Foresti%C3%A8re+Domaniale+de+la+Combe+d'Ir%C3%A9,+74210+Chevaline,+Haute-Savoie,+Rh%C3%B4ne-Alpes,+France&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.774815,6.224782&panoid=nuHTKADUq1XtjCX_3jxdNA&cbp=12,184.69,,0,-6.31
Fera, Aug 3 8:03AM
it looks like the maps may have led to a little confusion. So here is first a link to the map of Chevaline, indicating the various roads.
http://www.map-france.com/Chevaline-74210/map-Chevaline.html
Alex’s drive was up the road marked as Route forestiere de la Combe d’Ire, which is THE ONLY WAY to get to the Martinet by regular car. Yes, there is a part way parallel road Route ancien Combe d’Ire but that’s an off-track road which we speculated about as possible get away, that in any way leads to the first road. There are other side roads, but those require going through the forest to connect.
You claim: “I went up the straight, well-surfaced road evidentlly intended for the use of tourists, being signed in English as well as French.”
Can you please indicate said “straight well-surfaced road” on the map attached as well as where in your opinion was the Martinet located and off which road? this should help clear any confusion, hopefully.
If it helps, here is another link to an interactive map put out early by the Guardian, showing the cordoned off road with the street sign. have you passed through this point? where would you place this point (entry at the edge of Chevaline) on the map above?
please be clear, if you could, about what you mean by “forestry track” again, in reference to the map. That should help clear any confusion.
An aside: you mention a road meant for tourists – clearly the Combe d’IRe we are talking about did not exactly fit the bill.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2012/sep/06/french-alps-shooting-interactive-map
Pink – you beat me to it!
the map I’ve been using is the road map put out by Chevaline but yours is plenty good too. Interesting that the names are a bit different – the Chevaline one gives the complete name. may be that’s what confused Fera?
I stepped out from my subterranean lair for some cola and crisps, and missed all the action. If someone is saying something that sparks such a frenzy, it must be something worth considering, in my semi-litterate view. Continue on. Something must be getting close to hitting the mark.
@Marlin
Have you ever managed to pin down the waterfall that seems to crop up ,I know there is one that is only reached on foot but James seemed to think there was one with a car park and I have never really got to the bottom of which one he meant.
Isle of man chap said they had been to a waterfall and caves and driven back past the murder scene, whether he just meant as in the road block area’s or not I don’t know .
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/murder-in-the-alps-manx-couple-caught-up-in-police-investigation-1-4900897
There is this one
http://www.cascade-seythenex.fr/index.php/en/find-us-
I cannot figure out how it would connect to any of the roads near the murder but I also remember a quote that said CS thought SM was going to the waterfall so I have been having another look.
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