The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
As I said at the start, ‘the family picnic’ is a common espionage/intelligence cover. The secrecy surrounding the murdered French cyclist also is deeply suspicious. To re-state the blindingly obvious (but sometimes it is necessary to do so), the whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Pink, Aug 5 8:57PM
I think you may have nailed the Waterfalls + Caves. I checked it out and it’s only about 11 km away from Chevaline – a trip of some 18 minutes – according to the directions I got from the web site. It makes sense that this is one of the places SM would bike to because there are roads one can take by bike which look to be quite scenic and not in too bad a repair. To me, it would seem to be a trip of about 1 hour on a good bike – makes for perfect afternoon exercise.
Also, the camp manager’s daughter probably just pointed SAH in that direction as well. Again, it is quite likely that people will not be too particular in pinning down the specific location of the martinet.
The only other waterfall I saw anywhere in the maps was the one labeled cascade du Trou de l’Enfer, but this must be way off the beaten track and doesn’t even appear in most maps/ But it is closer to Chevaline on the other side of the valley from Combe ‘d’Ire – can get there from Arnand on seemingly poor roads. Something tells me that this is not the one meant by people when they speak of “water fall” to a tourist.
Tim V – I thought you’d love the name for this last “cascade”. Check it out! those french/Swiss sure had some dark imagination in naming their beauty spots.
Your waterfall is a well known tourist destination with a web site and all and does look like a rather attractive destination for a family to take. If that’s where the isle of man had gone then it isn’t too far from Chevaline and he may well have encountered a road block somewhere along the way. I believe he used the word “drove past the incident” rather loosely as one would say when they were in the vicinity of something. Notice how hard we had to labor to pin down the Combe d’Ire and the martinet using all the maps. If I drove past say, Doussard, I would probably use the same words as the British fellow did. Who probably just wanted to insert himself closer to such a famous incident.
As for Fera, I think her last response pretty much nails it. She probably consulted a map – but not too closely.
having said all that I really really want to go visit those water falls. the photos they posted were enticing! I’m envious of those who live in that part of the world. do you think they know how lucky they are?
Pink 7:52 PM. Yes that’s a possibility. The photos we have at the sign with the roadblock (see the Guardian article I attached earlier) is just the start of the Combe d’Ire which gets quite “ratty” the further one goes. It is possible that Fera has gone there but just not far enough. But she kept insisting she went all the way though it’s quite easy to pinpoint the actual road and the martinet location using the simple maps we found, provided one is willing to put in the attention. It’s Fera’s certainty that caused me to question whether she really took the drive, though it’s quite possible she was touring in the general area. I know I wouldn’t be so certain of anything in that particular terrain.
Thanks again for the waterfall link. I decided I must absolutely make a point of visiting the area some day.Alas, I am not sure it’ll be while this blog is still up and running. OTOH, it will be well before the case is “solved” given the authorities determination of not solving it.
Suhayl,
“Whodunnit, and why?”
All IMO of course:
Who:
1) Agents acting for a Near Eastern state, that has a past record of doing this sort of thing, if it thinks its interests are threatened. A state that has complete support from the West whatever it does.
2) Just possibly, but unlikely, criminals (as part of some, as yet unknown, conspiracy).
Why:
1) Because that state thought(correctly or incorrectly) that some or all of those murdered were acting against its interests. As there is so much information that has not been made public, it is hard speculate as to exactly what.
2) I don’t know, which is why I think it unlikely.
Oh, hello there, Suhayl. Permit me to post something really far out there in reply to your question. What could remote sensing satellites, Melbourne and the fire brigade/forestry service at Chevaline have in common? You don’t suppose it could be something along these lines, do you?
http://www.casa.umass.edu/main/research/highlights/phased_array_australia/
“Other hazards” and “exported technology” cover a lot of ground.
You’ll find no consensus here, I’m afraid, just more unanswered questions. This saga continues to stink.
Thanks, Bleb. Anyone else venture a view on this? Back when it happened, my thoughts, like those of many, were (in no particular order; I know this list is not exactly original!):
1) Israel, with or without active involvement (but with at least the tacit approval) of the SIS and French intelligence services.
2) SIS and French Intelligence.
3) Iran.
4) Iraq (or some faction in/of Iraq).
5) An organised criminal ‘hit’ commissioned by a private individual/family for financial/vengeance/non-political/non-espionage-related reasons.
6) Some combination of 5) – an underworld criminal assassin – with one of the others.
The thing is, Israel usually trumpets its assassinations, swaggers about its invincibility and its ability to break international law. Think of the waving ‘tennis tourists’ in Dubai wrt the senior Hamas target, or the assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists and so on. It makes no secret of its ambition to destroy Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Same thing with its assassinations of PLO figures in the past. We’ve not had any of that in this case.
Nonetheless, there was a mixture of pro and am methods used, it seems to me. If someone professional wanted to make it look a bit amateur, to throw people off the scent, leaving bullet casings around, using an old-ish gun, etc., that is how they would have done it, knowing that they would get away and be protected the states involved.
I think that if Iran or Iraq had done it, by now, MSM UK/French fingers would be pointing conveniently at one or the other.
And what’s this seeming inability, or unwillingness, to allow the homicide detectives properly to question the older daughter in detail? The absence of any photos of the dead cyclist, his positively secretive funeral… Something very odd is going on and one suspects that both the British and French deep states are involved in some way, possibly as part of a cover-up.
This case, like those of Pimlico and Harrowdown Hill, seems to have been enclosed in a ‘North Face’ sports bag. I’m surprised, too, that there was no blunt fruit-knife lying around with zero fingerprints on the handle.
Interesting, Q wrt satellites. Thanks.
@Marlin
If they were all going to the caves how would they end up where they did is the mystery.
It is quite hard not to get enchanted by the area all the various things that turn up when I am searching , I have driven quite a lot of the roads on google earth and that can take ages and in fact it’s probably a good job I work as its easy to devote far to much time once I start searching as one thing always leads to another.
…
@Suhayl Saadi
7 Aug, 2013 – 7:57 pm
I still don’t have a clue loads of possibles probably wrong, I will leave it to brains greater than mine and just keep following
if nothing else my geography will improve.
@Tim
I am not forum sliding honest 🙂
hello Suhayl – good layout there – right in line with what Tim V and I have been suggesting. And I know Belb has recently as well.
No time now but Iill address later the points you brought up. Agreed on Iran and iraq – no way this would have been kept so quiet so long were there the slightest inkling that such agencies may have been involved. Unfortunately all the roads point to an ‘agency” of an ally of UK and France but with the added complication that the manner of dealing and influence this ally has differ in degree and substance for france vs UK.
Yes, the most likely culprit agencies in terms of MO and professionalism and the ability to pressure allied governments quiet are CIA and Mossad, possibly in combination. You said israel likes to “trumpet’ its assassinations: yes, but that’s only true when the victims are designated “bad guys”, cf. hamas, hezballah, iranian scientists etc. If the hit was against bona fide british, Swedish and french citizens then mum’s the word, due to political complications. Israel is responsible for many more assassinations than is generally known publicly. And for good reason.
For myself I have nothing more than some circumstantial evidence + psychological profiling of the cover-up that it’s likely the Mossad that did the hit – possibly with US/CIA authorization, some french cognizance (partial), while pulling the wool over SIS. I’ll try to share later if I get around to it, so please come back to read.
As an aside, part of my reading assigns a role to MZT as well. You’ll love that one – very convoluted!
Suhayl,
Yes, but… would Israel brag in the same way if its actions were carried out in a Western state like France? I think Israel & France would both want to avoid the embarrassment.
I think in the past Israel has detonated bombs in France and threatened French workers (French company supplying Iraq with nuclear reactor, there are links a bit earlier in this thread). It was a while ago but I don’t recall any bragging at the time (I may be wrong).
Suhayl
There are many possibilities, but all the collected evidence, logic and probability points at:
Money issues!
Hajj Sheikh Kadhim Abdul Husayn (Saad’s father) works for Saddam Hussein in the money laundering business. (His eldest son is an accountant today, smell the coincidence if you wish).
Amingst the Hajj Sheikh’s “recipients” are also the French Metal workers union who bunkers their money and gold in geneve. The french metal workers union (sylvain mollier) funds Le Pen and the ultra extremist neonazi group who is around its leader Christian Mollier.
After Kadhim’s death several of his accounts are being locked due to the inheritance system. Several “owners” of Saddam’s neonazi extremists funds can no longer access their accounts.
Zaid (now “employed” in a golf club owned by extreme right wing families) is supposed to organise these funds like his father had done it.
However, one (or more) of those accounts are going over to Saad (for some reason we dont know).
Saad and his wife’s family dont think to give that money to the neonazi groups.
The neonazi groups usually work hand in hand with the CIA (like they had done so in Germany and Sweden before). They are doing the dirty work for the national secret services as well as for CIA (assassinations and terror plots , particularly bombings).
The style and method of the assassination including the gun used is a carbon copy of the neonazi killings in germany, also called “Bosporus murder”
Saad taking money from CIA and neonazi groups usually is a death penalty. Zaid had warned him. Zaid needs access to the money to forward the money to the owners.
Most of the evidence and information we have make that possibility the one with the highest and most logic probability, simply because it includes Zaid, Saad, Mollier, French interests and British/USA interests. That logic even includes the desperate attempts by several people including Zaid, to pull money from that account.
Suhayl,
…and to pick up on your point about pro-am methods:
Although cartridge casings were left behind (is that actually a sign of amateurs BTW? isn’t it more a reflection of pistol vs revolver?) the casings were apparently clean of all fingerprint / DNA evidence. Whoever loaded the magazines used must have known what they were doing in terms of forensics.
Older weapon = almost impossible to trace.
However I think you are probably right and there was some attempt at misdirection by not using a “signature” weapon.
Possibly using a vintage German design may have held some significance to the murderer(s).
Good discussion people, fully in accord with my earlier reasoning as well. Is it possible we are approaching a CONSENSUS? All we need now is a Snowden or Assange to release a few incriminating communications marked “Top Secret”.
On the international stage the US is p****d off with Putin over Snowden. P****d off with Ecuador over Assange. P****d off with Britain for making a pig’s ear of the extradition. P****d off with Israel for scheming against Obama. P****d off with Pakistan for supporting the Taliban and sheltering OBL. P****d off with Syria and Iran. P****d off with Libya for Benghazi and a further 25 countries where it now closed its embassies. It may soon may be p****d off with Australia if Assange makes it to the Senate. In fact its never been so p****d off before.
The drones are already circling, eagle like, over Sana’a in the Yemen ominously. This seems to be Obama’s new foreign policy. Stay out of conflicts – not getting involved – whilst flying over every where dispensing death from the pilot-less skies. An extreme example of the headmaster throwing chalk from his first floor office, to break up the playground fight.
Meanwhile in Homs it is “Al Qaeda” forces that have just taken the airfield – at least for the moment and the west supports them. Now how bizarre is that?
That was meant to be Aleppo not Homs. Sorry, a slip of the finger!!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/syrian-rebels-seize-key-airbase/2013/08/06/adf6a28e-fe6f-11e2-8294-0ee5075b840d_story.html
http://www.israeldefense.com/?CategoryID=534&TagID=589
Ahmed Ben Hilli, Deputy Chief of Arab League closely involved in Syrian situation.
http://syriahr.com/en/
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2012/Oct-26/192823-syria-truce-seems-to-be-holding-arab-league.ashx#axzz2bKVKs8zX
http://www.arabnews.com/middle-east/syria-fighter-pilot-defects-new-blow-assad
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iZn3p7rj6MsiqmVfV_pzj6fOc9HQ?docId=CNG.9a56fc59788020bfec263a372d3b5696.131
http://malaysianinsider-malaysiakini.worldheritage.com.my/tag/ahmed-ben-hilli/
We discussed this El Hilli case yonks ago – http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/friend-of-murdered-businessman-michael-mcgurk-embroiled-in-high-society-fraud-case/story-fni0cx4q-1226639995037 who knows it might prompt something new from the uninitiated?
I feel sure it is the Syrian/Iranian/Israeli nexus where the Chevaline killings fit – but HOW? We have Zygier suicided eleven months after top Hezbollah assassinated in Dubai. Another person secretly held at the same time. Devout Jew now arrested for spying and treason following 2011 meeting at Iranian Embassy in Berlin.
“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has kept up Israel’s belligerent rhetoric even after the presidency’s change of hands in Iran, calling the incoming Hassan Rowhani a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” who would “smile and build a bomb.” !!! http://gulftoday.ae/portal/b6c3087c-a3c5-4768-824d-f97b7a6944df.aspx?
Hezbollah/Shias backing Assad. Significant proportion of Sunni opposition American/Saudi backed Al Qaeda! Al Hilli at centre of Arab negotiations. British Al Hillis links to British SIS. Technical knowledge/links to BAE (Saudi corruption) and EUropean Defence Industries via SSTL. Work in the past on centrifuges. American sabotage of computer systems and probably metal technology. SM agent of British? Israeli intelligence beat British at their own game and set up meet with US logistical back-up, of Syrian/Iranian interests combining satellite surveillance plus nuclear metal technology? Actually kidon to do the deed? WBM there as eyes and ears and even as government surety? French regard SM as traitor and expendable in the interests of valuable middle east/sunni arab/jewish interests, as Saudi/Jewish policy objective re Iran and Syria now aligned?
Well that’s my stab at it. Can any one improve on it (Marlin et al)?
@bluebird
thanks; good research there, as usual.
@suhayl
it just reminded me of the strangely announced death of Vladimir Pasechnik. Anders did post some good stuff though, he seemed very well connected.
Well here goes with fresh perspective & what I have always believed to be the motive & who dunnit !
BB, I agree with some of your 7th August 11-19 comment. The CIA plus Mi6 connection particularly.
Develop that further adding in Mr X…….Who formed his company a year before leaving Saddam & Iraq, where did his wealth come from at the start ?
He & Kadim left Iraq only a few months apart both involved in the Iraqi government at the same time..
Kadim died only months before Saad said he ‘had important papers’ & ‘had done something stupid’ …like blab to someone what he’d found amongst his fathers papers & or a promise he’d made to Kadim to get justice for what happened when he fell out with Saddam………..business sequestered etc, the person behind that Mr X , Saddams bag man?
Imagine the simmering resentment watching that man become a billionaire on the back of your fathers lost businesses.
If Saad knew the origins he would have naturally told Igbal, the mother may also have known so had to be eliminated too.
IN SHORT HE COULD HAVE BEEN A WHISTLE BLOWER …on someone who is feted around the world,with huge connections to top people in governments & O specifically… who has denied any connection with Mr X even though the money trail is there with Rezco !
Add in the other members of the Chicago mob………all in Obama’s pocket , [or more correctly O is in their pockets] & have a need to keep him out of any further corruption.
Why else do you think all other governments are silent on this ?
It was clear from Maillauds very first press conference he’d been told to bluff it.
O is in enough trouble with his secret payments of 8 billion to Egypt – the Muslim Brotherhood & much more.
No one knows where that 8 billion came from.
See the friends/contacts of Mr X & the wealth involved. http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/le_cercle.htm
These are the people who put the President into the White House .
I believe the meeting with Mollier was a deliberate curve ball & easy to set up by someone who knew of his work & leisure activities , he was a stooge & a clever choice as was the cycling connection between him,Saad & Martin.
BM set it up.
I’m not interested in how the actual killings were done, we ‘know’ they were, I think too much time has been spent on that & too little on the motive which to me is far more interesting.
LA CERCLE.
‘”Le Cercle is a secret transnational intelligence and direct action group, that, according to all accounts, is funded by the CIA. We only know the dates and places of a handful of Circle meetings (1), which were attended by about a hundred persons at a time. Before the 1990’s, it was called Cercle Violet, or initially, Cercle Pinay, in both cases after its (French) chairman. In later times, chairmanship of Le Cercle went on to the British. The Pinay Circle used to fight the spread of communism worldwide, at all costs, even in our own backyard. This threat largely ceased to exist when the USSR collapsed and the role of the Circle had to change. Today, its members are probably talking about “Al-Qaeda infiltration” instead of “communist infiltration”, although looking at the people involved with the Circle, one wonders how many actually believe in the ‘War on Terror’ as a tool to spread “freedom” and “democracy”.
As a side note:
We should consider that the main reason we cannot find Kadhim al Hilli on the www is that he called himself (or was called)
Hajj Sheikh Kadhim Abdul Husayn.
Also his brother Hashim mostly used A.H.Hilli (Abdul Husayn Hilli) as his name description rather than Hashim al Hilli. Their father was Hajj Sheikh Husayn Hilli, who was the teacher of Ayatollah al Sistani in Najaf (he was honorably mentioned in al Sistani’s biography).
Therefore it isnt impossible that Saad and/or Zaid used “Abdul Husayn” as their name in political/religious relations, too.
Saad Abdul Husayn or Zaid Abdul Husayn.
The eye opening picture was the grave picture of Saad al Hilli’s grave and his name.
Hmmm … coincidence?
Maybe Kadhim’s death and all the Spanish stuff was just a SIS setup?
http://lubbockonline.com/stories/093006/wor_093006095.shtml
“Brother in law of Saddam Hussein’s judge, Kadhim abdul Hussein, was killed in an attack in Baghdad and his son Karrar was wounded.” Sept 30 2006
Karrar al Hilli exists in Baghdad (just google his name).
Coincidence?
http://en.wna-news.com/en/news.php?item.639.1
Ahmed abdul Kadhim abdul Husayn al Hilaly
Supreme Judge, Baghdad, Iraq
That could be a so far unknown brother of Saad and Zaid. I would give it a high probability.
I was always suspicious about why such noble and high ranked muslims would have 2 children and one wife only.
Kadhim abdul Husayn (al Hilli) mentioned here:
http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/library/islam_and_other_religions/mary_and_jesus/00.htm
In the same year, that is, 1989, the Grand Ayatollah al-Khoei established the London branch of this Foundation, appointing his son, Sayyid Muhammed Taqi al-Khoei, as its head. It is now located on Chevening and Salusbury roads. Its board, upon establishment, was comprised of these dignitaries: Sayyid Muhammed Taqi al-Khoei, Sheikh Muhsin Ali al-Najafi, Sheikh Yousuf Nafsi, Sayyid Muhammed al-Mousawi (of(15)Bombay, India), Sayyid Fadhil al-Milani, Sayyid Majid al-Khoei (another son of the late al-Khoei), Sheikh Hajj Kadhim Abdul-Hussain, Sayyid Muhammed Ali Shahristani (a world renown philanthropist and founder of the Open Islamic University in London, a man who was born in Iraq and who had descended from an Iranian family), and al-Hajj Mustafa Kawkal. Sayyid Taqi al-Khoei was succeeded in this post by his brother, the late Sayyid Abdul-Majid al-Khoei who was assassinated in Najaf, Iraq, on Thursday, April 10, 2003. Following this tragic incident, Sayyid Yousuf al-Khoei, another son of the late Grand Ayatollah, became director of London’s Khoei Foundation. Another branch for the Khoei Foundation was established in Montreal, Canada, but information about it has not been available at the time when this text has been compiled for the kind reader.Late Grand Ayatolllah al-Khoei was born on November 19, 1899 and died on August 8, 1992. Following the demise of the late sage, Grand Ayatollah Abul-Qasim al-Khoei, the Shiite world, represented in Najaf’s hawza, Islamic seminary, elected Sayyid Ali al-Sistani to succeed him in this highest religious office. Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ali al-Husaini al-Sistani was born on August 4, 1930 in Mashhad, Iran, to a family of religious scholars. His grandfather, after whom he was named, was a famous scholar who had studied in Najaf. Sistani’s family originally comes from Isfahan. During the Safavid period, his forefather, Sayyid Muhammed, was appointed by then King Hussain as “Sheikhul-Islam” (mentor/leading authority on Islam) in the Sistan province. He traveled to Sistan where he and his children settled, hence his last name, “al-Sistani”. Sistani began his religious education as a child, starting in Mashhad and moving on to study at the great Shiite holy city of Qum in central Iran in 1949. In 1951, after spending few years there, he went to Najaf, Iraq, to study under the late Grand Ayatollah Abul-Qasim al-Khoei. Sistani rose in religious ranks to be named in 1960 a supreme “marji`” the highest religious authority, under Iraqi government’s head, Gen. Abdul-Karim Qasim, but without any interference from the government. At the unusually young age of 31 (that is, in 1961), Ayatollah Sistani reached the senior level of accomplishment called ijtihad, which entitled him to pass his own judgments on religious questions and issue binding edicts.Let us now go back and review al-Jibouri’s stay in Atlanta, Georgia, which lasted from 1972 to 1979. During that period, al-Jibouri was instrumental in attracting converts to the Shiite Ja’fari Inthna-‘Asheri School of Muslim Law. These converts were taught Islam as propagated
James
That could be the unnamed cousin from Istanbul. He always had close turkish connections and part of his time he lives in istanbul and in lebanon, particularly after his retirement as the grand mufti of australia and new zealand. He is an anti zionist, denying holocaust, and he can easily be categorised as a neonazi sympathiser.
If he is that guy then i am not surprised that he wanted to stay unnamed and that he knows a little bit more thsn others do. I am also excited about the new zealand link. Everything is fitting better and better.
Grand Mufti of Australia and New Zealand
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_El-Din_Hilaly
Cleared of alleged links to Hezbollah
Allegations surfaced that Hilaly was diverting relief funds intended for the victims of the Israel-Lebanon war to Lebanese Shiite militant group Hezbollah, which is classified as a terrorist organisation by the Australian Government. On 10 May 2007 the Australian Federal Police cleared Hilaly of diverting charitable funds to Hezbollah.[
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/alhilali-asked-to-account-for-missing-money/2007/04/02/1175366160566.html
Thanks, everyone. Yes, all are excellent points. I shall pop in again in due course – just making the rounds of Alpha Centauri and points beyond.
Bluebird wrote:
I’ve told you this before: do not believe [things Middle Eastern, Jewish newer history or articles about people which are termed “holocaust deniers” like the right honouravle Mr. David Irving] you read on Wikipedia. The Jewish censors warps everything according to their warped minds.
Ad. (1) Of cause he’s an anti-zionist, who are’nt?
Ad (2) with regard to “Denying homocaust” [this was a misspelling of mine which I chose to keep because I think it is rather funny], why is it important what he thinks about an event which took place in Europe some 70 years ago? Generally when you speak to people in the Middle East [em>Have you ever done that? Have you ever spoken to your local shop keeper from the ME or are you one of those who just walk in an buy your stuff and then walks out again?] they don’t understand why they shall bear the consequences of a crime which took place in Europe all those years ago. And it is in this context that you shall view his stand on the so called “holocaust”. Eisenhower, Churchill and De Gaulle have between them written thousands of pages of WW2 without ever using the word. For them WW2 was one giant destinational clash, and how civilians were treated inside a dictatorship was of course not something which pre-occupied their minds, as the main thing was to defeat the Germans.
Ad. (3) “Neo-nazi” this is just a laugh. This old gentleman propably have no idea what “Nazi” means. Again, the common denominator is apprehension against Jews, but he and his people have had to bear the real consequences of having the worlds last colony in their back yard, so it is natural if he has formed an opinion against these intruders. And he have also seen how his beloved Iraq has descented into chaos following the American led invasion in 2003. This invasion would in all pårobability not have happened, were it not for the prodding of Israek, and in particular the Israel lobby. So it is pretty clear why he shows apprehension about just about anything having to do with this colony and the people who protect it.
Also Australia and Canada have regretably been hijacked by Israeli lobbies [“Are we powerful or what?”], which have prompted them to designate “Hetzbollah” — which was set up in 1982 with the exquisite purpose of kicking Israel out of Lebanon, which they succeeded doing in 2000 — as a “terrorist organisation” (sic). In all its history “Hetzbollah” has been preoccupied by the goal I referred to earlier. Even today, when it supports Assad, it’s because they fear a vital supply-corridor from Iran should be blocked. Israel claims that they were involved in a bomb attack against an Israeli bus in Bulgaria some years agot, but this is unlikely. And even if they were, it important to remember that the bus was Israeli, and not Japanese or Hungarian.
Good summary of a credible hypothesis Bluebird
7 Aug, 2013 – 11:19 pm. You could be right. However if true, and the money was a Mollier/Steel Workers cashe, what was the meeting for in that remote spot and who initiated it? Surely they could have chosen a far easier, more comfortable venue, or even negotiated via an encrypted medium? An even bigger question is why would SM need to be killed. Are you suggesting treachery on his part or just because he knew?
There is no more secret banking centre than Switzerland. There has never been a more secretive and protective police investigation than that overseen by EM. Yet first the confidential information is divulged by the GERMAN SIS we are told and this is relayed by the French to the media. Excuse me if I find this highly suspicious simply because it runs completely counter to every other aspect of the investigation. Why was it not treated as confidential? Why was it published? Why was it so clearly stated this was SH money? None of this is accidental. For some reason the prosectors wanted to link the Al Hilli’s with the criminal, executed former Iraqi leader.
“We” the public have no way of knowing if the £800 000 a/c is real or not, where it came from, or its legal ownership. We don’t know when Kadhim’s sons became aware of it, or if and how Kadhim referred to it in his will (if he left one). What appears to be the case that SAH seems to have checked it out but did not attempt to withdraw or transfer any of it. Nor do we know whether he went there with the full knowledge and co-operation of his elder brother or without and despite it. Nor do we know the position of the British/Swiss banking and tax authorities to it.
Then again despite EM’s suggestions of sibling conflict as a motivation for the killing, there appears to be no evidence of a concerted effort by ZAH to access the Geneva money or legal moves to secure it. For it to be EM’s required motivation, ZAH would have to know about it. If he didn’t know about it, the motivation factor is removed. If he did know about it why no published information about the steps he took to secure his share?
A lot hangs on that million Euros and its source. Is it possible it was made public as bargaining chip by opposition elements as in, “we know what went on and if you cause waves there’s far more embarrassing stuff we can reveal”. If so it would point the finger at a Franco/German alliance v. the British I would suggest.
SH as a source was suggested by the Germans but there is no guarantee it WAS SH. With TEN BILLION dollars being physically dispersed by American soldiers following the invasion, most which has never been accounted for, and billions more sloshing around in the oil for food programme, who knows where it might have originated. As I have already suggested the “escrow a/c” is a well known device of SIS (the examples are too numerous to mention)for services rendered by agents.
Further why should the Germans announce it? Do you really think MI6 would have been in the dark about that account or the source of it? I would say it was nigh impossible. In other words the British SIS chose to keep the fact secret whilst the Germans through the French sought to make it known.
Tim
After having read the Allawi interview i am having no doubts that Hajj Sheikh Kadhim Abdul Husayn and Saddam Hzssein knew each other, rather as ” enemies in contract” than as friends.
Allawi said that all of the political elite who left iraq in 1969 were threatened by Saddam. Threatened eitger to work for him or to be killed by his secret service. Allawi said that he refused and then he hardly survived an assassination attack in his surrey house.
Sheikh Khadim wasnt assassinated. He did not want to endanger his family. His brother Hashim was in jail in iraq and being tortured by saddam.
What would we have done? Accepting saddam’s offer to save the brother’s life and to care for the safety of the families? You bet we would have worked for saddam although we hated him. Shortly after saddams offer, hashim is released from jail and allowed to leave for london.
Logical reason why?
Sheikh Kadhim accepted Saddam’s offer.
The thing is: what happened after saddam’s power fell apart?
Is Sheikh khadim treated as a traitor or as a hero once the documents revealed that he worked for saddam.
Is the spanish story a legend setup by SIS? Was Sheikh khadim abdul hussein, brother in law of Saddam’s judge, assassinated in Baghdad in sept. 2006 as documents would reveal?
http://www.dphotographer.co.uk/user/Karrar%20AL-Hilli
If the documents and the media releases are correct, this must be another son of sheikh khadim al hilli.
We are outside the brightly lit room. The only way we can know what is going on inside, is from the slivers of yellow light that shine through the gaps in the shutters. We must deduce a lot from a little. Even so, in the darkness a sliver of light can be very revealing. There follows a few slivers and what I think they suggest.
There are two major players that despite their best efforts at disguise and camouflage have been witnessed: the British and the French. The Germans popped in and promptly left again. The Swiss are round and about but mysterious. The Swedish with a direct connection by virtue of two of their nationals (at least) embroiled, like a whimp avoiding the street fight, have inexplicably stayed well away.
We can be sure others are in the room but by keeping absolutely silent and in the shadows, they have not as yet revealed themselves to us. However we can be sure that those in the room know who they are even if we “outsiders” don’t.
I cannot understand or explain why the Swedes have abandoned their nationals. My only explanation I can think of is that they have been told to keep clear by either MI6 or CIA. The Assange case told us all we needed to know about their preparedness to act the stooge.
What can we glean from the French approach to the case? First, and it is hard to gild the lilly on this one, they were prepared to sabotage the investigation and lie as regards what happened. “Sabotage” insofar as they were prepared to allow hoards of press in on the scene, whilst vital evidence was still present not to mention all the other strands of conflicting opion and forensic confusion. They undoubtedly lied about the first call (unless we argue it was WBM who did the lying) The lie was two-fold: 1. that WBM made the call; and 2. the time at which it was made (unless made by someone other than PD/B).
They lied in respect of the vehicle tracks so apparent on the aerial photograph. They may have lied on other aspects too numerous to mention however there is quite enough here to undermine the integrity of the French investigation.
So we may ask what can be drawn from this? I would suggest the following as starters:
a. The French are not involved with the cause or implementation of the killings. Explicitly as EM announced very early on the cause resided in Britain or Iraq or both. Of course there may be some truth in this. What cannot be believed given the misinformation, is that France was quite innocent and uninvolved.
b. The French wanted us to believe WBM was the hero of the hour and the initial reporter. We do not know if PD/B would have ever been revealed had not WBM referred to him and the necessity for another initial caller. My interpretation of this is that they desperately needed an initial call at 3.48 to explain the arrival of the emergency services en masse. In the absence of WBM they had to pass that role onto a Frenchman but this breached the intended plan to keep France out of it altogether.
c. The French were desperate to dissociate SM from the killings, first by stating he was merely unintentional, accidental collateral damage. This position was maintained even in the face of forensic evidence to the contrary. Very relevant family information was withheld relating to him. A visual representation has never been published contrary to all established procedures.
We must ask why was it so important to hide the truth? The only explanation I can come up with is that a link with the Al Hillis would indicate complicity and French involvement in the murders. It raised the possibility that SM could also be a target which in turn might uncover a can of worms that the French were desperate to avoid.
d. Having suggested at the beginning this was the work of professionals, increasingly this opinion was disavowed, and we were regaled with all sorts of spurious arguments, supported pointedly by some on here and MZT, why quite the contrary was the case. These shifts in opinion have been a feature of the case, and could not be accidental. I believe they indicate an unseen hand directing what EM should say.
e. The French went to extraordinary lengths to deny the presence of a four wheel drive SUV have early on announced there was one. Yet another example of their shifting position. A forestry vehicle was explained away (despite the many questions this raised) and a wholly irrational explanation for the tyre tracks propounded. (Had they argued this were created by an unrelated vehicle they might have been on a stronger wicket but they stupidly didn’t, although to a large extent press and public were taken in).
What I take from this is that a vehicle rather confirmed at least two, plus a motor bike, three operatives and the French wanted to cover this up. Why would they do such a thing? The only explanation I can come up with is that at the very least, they wished to protect the murderers and cover up the organisation or State behind it. What other explanation is there. Then along come the British and restate the fact that a SUV WAS travelling towards the scene at 3.20. Oh dear! A SUV and motor cyclist are back in the frame.
f. Poor EM at the very beginning broke a cardinal rule. He admitted defeat before he even started. Was this because he had been aprised of his role and the jam he was in? Had he been told his job was on the line if he didn’t tow the line. Matters of national security trumps everything. “You are allowed to follow all the lines of investigation as long as they don’t lead to France”?
There are other slivers of light from the way the French proceeded but that’s enough examples for now. But how about the BRITISH? What can we glean from them? I really think I have test your patience enough for the time being (and mine!!!) so will return to this theme later.