The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Ferret
Of course there are also many people in the USA with the name Bush. Recently I played a round of golf with a guy called Bush and he was no relative of THE Bush.
However, if you find 3 or 4 with the name BUSH inside government top positions or married to guys in society elite top positions then the likelyhood of them being relatives rises quickly from say 39% to 98%.
Tell me what they are doing and i tell you who they are and where they are coming from.
Re: uday and the chicken farm
Everything of what we had heard so far is getting suddenly a logic background when we add Adib Shaaban. If he would not exist we would have had to add him up. He was the missing link.
The chicken farm, the saddam money, the secret service involvement, the da notice, kadhim being allowed to stay and work in iraq while his brother was arrested and tortured, the travelling of saad to iraq for lookup of the property in 2003 just shortly after adib shaaban defected and disappeared. All that suddenly makes sense. Lots of logic sense.
As a right hand of uday, adib shaaban was probably deeply involved in the oil for food fraud, too. There cannot be any Uday crime at all without adib shaaban being involved or at least knowing of that crime.
@BB
I take your point but in the UK for example there are 8 MP’s called Smith, none of whom are related.
Of course in Iraq it was a little different but if Shaaban is a common name I woukd like to see evidence of a link before being sure.
Otherwise it might be “possible” or even “likely” but not “certain”.
Your theory about his trip back to Iraq after Adib’s disappearance is v interesting. Do you think it was just a cover? Or was he really going back for his house?
“Saddam later appointed Uday head of the Iraqi Olympic committee and soccer federation, and subsequently the head of one of Saddam’s security organizations. In the former role, he tortured athletes who failed to win.[1][4][5] Uday seemed proud of his reputation and called himself abu sarhan, Arabic for “wolf”.” WIKIPEDIA
Hi, Shreen here. You know, the lady who wrote the HuffPost article, the lady you were making assumptions about.
No, I am not a spy. Fantastic mental gymnastics there. Very impressive.
I did not know Saad well enough to write more than what I did on HuffPost. I’m not politically savvy about anything in the Middle East except for women’s rights. I don’t speak Kurdish anymore and mostly identify myself as a British person. I don’t know if Saad was targeted, if this was all random, or what.
I don’t give a damn anymore, I’ve driven myself insane wondering what happened to my friend and I’m sure it’s not what Saad and Ikbal would have wanted. I was more concerned about the orphaned daughters whom I am very fond of.
So please leave your baseless assumptions at the door, if only for my sanity and as a sign of respect.
I know you will carry on regardless, because this is the Internet after all. But I couldn’t not say anything.
Take care
Shreen thank you for posting, I can only speak for myself and can’t speak for others But I think our musings ans passion for this story is because we care and have tremendous respect for the family and especially the children, I think that is why it all drew us together here as we just didn’t understand why? I hope we haven’t upset you but don’t think we can move on before the truth comes out, We have total respect for you and the family but I can’t stop’
Hi Ricki
I know it is a fascinating scenario to pick apart. Obviously my perspective is different. Thank you for your polite post. I expected a barrage of insults to be honest. I do understand that people are motivated to try and solve the case.
Unfortunately the comments here have upset me, of course they have. A bunch of strangers saying I’ve “bedded Saad”. Ouch. Completely and utterly baseless.
I’d have more respect if most people here were actually making guesses based on small facts but that was just insane. I haven’t read all 17k comments though, so who knows what horrible things have been written. Maybe the comments about me were in the minority.
If you guys care for the family, then please also respect the people they left behind too.
Peace.
Shreen Ayob
30 Aug, 2013 – 8:37 pm there is no reason for anyone to direct a “barrage of insults” at you for your contribution, which is a timely reminder of the human dimension and the need for us to be always mindful of it. I certainly hope I haven’t made any offensive or upsetting remarks about you or your friends. If I have I apologise unreservedly. I have always endeavoured to focus on the information in the public domain in an effort to work towards the truth. Unfortunately the incident has entered this public domain and cannot ever be put back into the private one. Governments obviously think the public should not know the reasons for the crime. Nor are they prepared to explain why. In the wider context I doubt that can be good for justice or that the perpetrators, whoever or whatever they are, to escape it.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/1894806/
Just for the records.
Hi Shreen,
Great that you’ve posted here 🙂
I’m so sorry that some of the comments here have upset you, especially as you must have had enough to deal with as it is.
As Ricky and Tim have already said, I think the vast majority here have nothing but the deepest respect for the family and for what they must have been going through, and for their friends who have had to come to terms with their loss. It is simply too awful to contemplate.
Shreen, I’d echo the comments made earlier. Sorry you feel upset.
I would, however, point out that it was not the users of this blog (or any other) who:
1) Kept the two children from their natural family for several months.
2) Made a theatrical “show” of searching the house (and presumably alerted the press)
3) Have publicly implied members of the family were involved in planning the killings (I’m thinking of the French investigating judge – for the record, I think this is a nonsense)
4) Have leaked “information” about Swiss bank accounts.
5) Arrested a member of the family and holding them on bail but not charging them. (for the record, I think this is a nonsense)
6) Appear to have not properly investigated the killings.
I think perhaps you should have more of a beef with the French and British authorities than with this blog.
I can only speak for myself, but number 6 on that list is what maintains my interest. I’d like to see justice done.
Just for the records and perhaps good to know because this is a possible Romanian link.
French Embassy Romania
Mr. Brice MOLLIER
1315 Strada Biserica
Amzei Sector1
BP143 Bucharest Romania
Phone : +40754055051 Fax : +40213031090
Email : [email protected]
Embassy employee Brice Mollier is from UGINE.
He seems to be in his mid/late twenties.
In his linkedin profile he has several links to Ecuador.
fr.linkedin.com/pub/brice-mollier/26/449/868/
http://copainsdavant.com/p/brice-mollier-2401764
Brice Mollier
my profile
Ministère des Affaires étrangères, Sciences Po
http://www.yatedo.com/p/Brice+Mollier/normal/92741ce7a8883d39ed36328268693c35
BB 9.28 . Goodness me, well done, a most interesting find indeed. Must be a relation surely, do you think this is who Zaid was in touch with?
@BB
WTF??? A Mollier from Ugine working in the French embassy in Romania?
This is a potentially astonishing revelation. How on earth do you keep digging these things up?
Surely two Mollier’s from the same small town must be related? I don’t remember there being a lot of them when we were looking a while back. Mind you Mollier (“Miller”) has got to be as common a surname in France as it is England?
@Bleb
Well spoken.
Jennywren
I am just finding facts.
Whether or not Brice Mollier is the Romanian phone contact i do not know. That is speculation. However, there is a likely relationship of the Ugine/Haute Savoie based Mollier family with the french ministry of foreign affairs and coincidentally, brice mollier works/worked at the french embassy in bucharest.
Jennywren
Personally I am finding the strong Ecuador links of Brice Mollier in his linkedin profile most astonishing.
Ecuador, ecuador …. what was the recent fuzz about ecuador?
Yes, ferret. There could well be two different families in ugine with the name mollier. However, as a collection of facts we should not miss this out in our data collection. To me this is one of the more significant correlations in that plot.
Perhaps some of you happen to find more about brice mollier.
http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Notre-Dame-de-Bellecombe
Brice mollier currently lived in notre dame de bellecombe (county of Ugine). This is a ski resort. Of course this is just his home address and probably the house of his parents. As a diplomat he wont be at home very often.
Ferret
Brice mollier was an accident find (i did not know him).
It appeared by chance when i was searching for “mollier + diplomatie.gouv.fr”
I started searching because today there was revealed by snowden files that the NSA illegally had spying access to the secret french “diplomatie.gouv.fr” network.
I’m not saying that Bluebird‘s find isn’t important, I just want to point out that like, say, McDonald is an undeniable Scottish name, The Mollier name has all the hallmarks of being an ancient family-, perhaps clan-name, eminating from Savoie. [Highlighting Haute Savoie where Ugine lies]
But it is all very interesting, and one always learns something new. It means that if you meet a Frenchman abroad and discover his name is Mollier, you could start a conversation by saying: “I take it you are from Savoie, then?” And he will be very impressed and perhaps answer that his grandparents came from there.
It’s also interesting to contemplate if many of them was killed fighting for France. Because while its an old name, it is striking how few of them are left. I have the impression that the Molliers are staunch nationalists at heart (if one can generalise in this way, which I think you can regarding certain families where forefathers make it an honour to take that position). We know that France lost horendous amounts of people in WW2 – witness all the Italiens (like that hairdresser, Molliers wife) and Poles that settled there after the war — so I am curious how many Molliers lost their lives then.
It’s also interesting to contemplate if many of them was killed fighting for France. Because while its an old name, it is striking how few of them are left. I have the impression that the Molliers are staunch nationalists at heart (if one can generalise in this way, which I think you can regarding certain families where forefathers make it an honour to take that position). We know that France lost horendous amounts of people in WW1 – witness all the Italiens (like that hairdresser, Molliers wife) and Poles that settled there after the war — so I am curious how many Molliers lost their lives then.
Notice that the prsence og American individuals and their a-t-t-e-m-p-t-s (which will not succeed) to impose American political correwctness-standards, in which we are all alike, all identical ingredients in the large American melting pot, that they are so porud of, – in this world there is no such thimg as family-tribes with strong affiliations to a particular geographical spot. According to individuals like Tim, you are all a grey mass. And there are no families like MacDonalds tied to Scotland, and no Molliers tied to Savoie. You are all one fucking grey mass of fucking Americans.
Just to note a coincidence (nothing implied):
cm 30-aug-2013 @ 15:42 (time is presumably BST)
– the author of a huffingtonpost article posts here
mzt 30-aug-2013 @ 14:57 (time is presumably CEST)
– link to that huffingtonpost article posted
Note: CEST time zone is one hour ahead of BST time zone
“The Independent understands that French investigators and Surrey police will give a joint press conference in Annecy next Friday, the day after the anniversary. They will probably have little new to say. The intention is to go over the established facts and to squash some of the wilder theories.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/a-year-on-at-annecy-the-unsolved-mystery-of-the-alhilli-layby-murders-8793467.html
Are we some of the ones waiting to be “squashed”?
Bleb
1 Sep, 2013 – 6:14 pm call me stupid I know but if EST is an hour AHEAD and MZT was following here, shouldn’t its recorded time be an hour LATER i.e. 16.57? This is not a criticism, merely a request for an explanation of probably an obvious point I have missed.
(Some very strange things happening to my computer btw!)
From the above article:
“Dated and timed photographs found in the camera of Zainab’s granny, Ms Al-Allaf, show the family posing happily in Doussard, the next village to Chevaline, at 3.15 pm that day. The murders are believed to have occurred at about 3.35pm to 3.40pm. A direct drive between the two spots takes about 12 minutes.”
Note suggested time of shooting moves back ever so slightly on this one (5 – 10 minutes from the 3.30 estimate by witnesses) Is this an attempt to accommodate the 3.15 Doussard photograph?
Even if it does, it still does not explain the fact that the Al Hilli’s BMW MUST have overtaken WBM on the way up, nor why he failed to refer to it – a fact, if it had happened, he could possibly have forgotten, given the subsequent circumstances.
We now await another “minor” modification to explain this one.
It would appear John Lichfield is fully supportive of the French story including SAH reversing in an arc (causing the tyre tracks) and dragging SM, despite its impossibility. He obviously hasn’t been following the CM thread which for a Foreign Correspondent based in Paris, writing about a notorious crime seems a little surprising, to say the least. Perhaps he has followed the arguments here, but chooses to ignore them? After all would you put your comfortable life in France at risk by undermining a government view? I would certainly think twice before doing so.
An interview with him here. His comment on the Diana accident is particularly apposite.
http://www.connexionfrance.com/john-lichfield-interview-independent-correspondent-paris-11520-news-article.html