The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
From the Mail is this confirmation that all four fatalities were INTENTIONAL and not just collateral?
“One theory put forward by an ‘English witness’ says an assassin with military experience may have murdered a British family and a French cyclist in the Alps for just £420 each.
The French appear so anxious to keep SM out of it and make ZAH the focus of the enquiry.
“But the French now routinely leak information allegedly linking Zaid to the murders, while attempting to close down other lines of enquiry.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2413680/Alps-murders-Al-Hilli-recorded-phonecall-shot-dead-France-near-Lake-Annecy.html#ixzz2eESl1f00
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Why was Saad afraid of his brother?
Saad had resources, contacts, he had his lawyers. Why wasn’t he just angry at Zaid’s actions?
If we believe Maillaud, what could Zaid do or say or threaten that could instill fear?
It seems to me, however plausible EM appears, there has hardly been anything that has emanated from him that hasn’t been total BS! The only questions are, was this intentional or accidental? Was he acting as a free agent or at the direction of others? How is any opinion or statement of his on any related subject credible?
Bluebird
6 Sep, 2013 – 11:48 pm two or three shots almost surgically place doesn’t seem to be Proca’s style does it? He seems to prefer pumping lots of bullets into a person. Nor from the descriptions, do I doubt for a moment he would have spared a child and potential witness nor for that matter another cyclist coming on the scene immediately after.
I still hold that the Chevaline killings have all the marks of military trained professionals working to detailed plan and instructions. That’s my view and I’m sticking to it.
And the notion that SM was struck and dragged by a reversing SAH as still supported in another place – pure poppycock. Who could believe such rubbish given what little we know of the “facts”?
given what little we know of the “facts”
I still hold that the Chevaline killings have all the marks of military trained professionals working to detailed plan and instructions
That’s my view and I’m sticking to it.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
There is nothing like an open and inquisitive mind is there.
Even one that makes such “blunders” …like not reading the damn date of reports that then get posted !!!!!
It’s funny when you can requote !
Some interesting genealogy news. I’d think that this is a sensational find. Thanks to oliphant for his work. This sounds unbelievable, however, if we can trust oliphant’s translation and if we can trust the author haitham al hilli, then this is the truth!
Thanks to oliphant’s partly translation of arab genealogy regarding the al hillis, there is an interesting link.
See original oliphant text submission here:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/not-forgetting-the-al-hillis/comment-page-70/
The translation was rather strange and bumpy and took a lot of time.
As a matter of fact, the al Hilli family is the Husseini family from Palestine. Their Iraqi branch did add the name “al Hilli” for the city of Hillah in order to point out their Iraqi heritage.
As a matter of fact, Yasser Arafat is a grand nephew of the Husseini family. Mohammed Husseini was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (that explains the Jerusalem-clerics link of oliphant’s bumpy al hilli translation). The Husseini family was the most notable family in Palestine pre 1945. It is hard to believe and looks unbelievable, but somehow Yasser Arafat must have been a grand uncle of Saad and Zaid al Hilli
History also shows that the Husseini family collaborated with Hitler and NAZI germany during WW2.
Haitham al Husseini al Hilli calls himself not Haitham al Hilli but Haitham al Husseini (that is the guy who wrote the al hilli genealogy on the swedish al Noor website, thankfully translated by olifant – see craig murray link on top of this text)). He is the speaker of SCIRI and he was the secretary and aide of al Hakim.
http://www.israelbehindthenews.com/bin/content.cgi?ID=603&q=1
The names are embarrassing to the PA as one is a relative of Yasir Arafat and he is one of the most prominent names on the list. His name is Mohammed Taher al-Husseini, father of al-Hajj Amin al-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem and supreme head of the Palestinian nationalist movement. Another was Kazem al-Husseini, grandfather on the mother’s side of Faisal Husseini, the top PLO official in Jerusalem. Kazem sold lands in Jerusalem, where he was mayor from 1918-1920. The list includes five other members of the Husseini family, one of the most prominent clans in pre-1948 Palestine and today.
So then more EM changes of story line. Now SM wasn’t “lost” after all. His partner phoned him on the journey, where he was when he took the call we are not told. Either he told her his location and route or he lied but the fact that she turned up at the right spot rather suggests the former. Then again we now have introduced a THIRD cylist (this has been discussed here previously) but now we are told BOTH SM and WBM passed this 60 yr old 5 or 6 K from Martinet. If true this would mean the two were following the same route well before Chevaline. If WBM was telling the truth that SM passed him just before the Combe it would suggest that WBM was in front when he passed the 60 yr old. However what doesnt work is that if they both passed at 5/6 k before and SM was going so much faster why did it take another 2 k before he overtook? Maybe that the climb was getting steeper and WBM was tiring? Doesn’t ring true to me. More that they were almost cycling together. Was SM lead up the Combe pre-arranged between them. And knowing the WBM was so close behind, doesn’t that have implications for what we assume was a clandestine meeting with the Al Hillis? Surely if WBM wasn’t known to SM he would have exercised greater caution and waited for him to pass or stayed behind, ensuring WBM was well away before being seen talking to Al Hillis? We haven’t been told whether the 60 yr old eventually reached the scene or was blocked, what he saw or what he did. Was he the source of the 4×4 story at 3.20? Doubtful but if so it puts WBM much further up the Combe and nearer the action doesn’t it?
Tim,
Thanks for that Daily Mail link.
Some of the MSM beginning to question the French investigation? Or am I reading too much into this?
“But the French now routinely leak information allegedly linking Zaid to the murders, while attempting to close down other lines of enquiry.”
I notice Peter Allen misses out the new “industrial espionage” theory in his list of (officially sanctioned?) theories.
But he does include this:
“Police said they had linked the murders of the British family with the mysterious death of another tourist last July.”
Anyone remember Maillaud officially saying this? and which “mysterious death”?
Or is it just a rehash of one of the “local murder” theories popular in another place?
Tim
The way he shot SM would support my theory.
Something else:
I believe that this is unrelated because supposingly this iraqi guy used a false name and false documents. However, i am adding that link for the records.
Oklahoma bombing and 9/11 and working at Boston airport and Iraqi and his (false?) name is hussain hashim al husseini (al hilli?). Interesting!
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/34299
Worth reading!
Another prominent member of the famous and powerful al Husseini family receiving Mossad or MI6 treatment/warning?
http://www.investigativeproject.org/3958/troubling-times-for-once-mighty-hizballah
And there comes his sex scandal:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/459970
@Tim v @6.49pm
No Tim I have missed off the end of the translation it should read..
Saad Al-Hilli was traveling to Geneva
It has long been established that Saad Al-Hilli had contacted the Geneva private bank in summer 2012 and had to go to Geneva in September. September 5 last year at around 3:40 p.m., the man lost his life on a forest park near Chevaline. His wife, his stepmother – and a French cyclist who was passing by – were coldly executed. “He was liquidated,” says Dario Zanni.
Timv
Pink
7 Sep, 2013 – 10:21 am is that report saying that SAH was meant to be at a Geneva Bank appointment at the precise time he was killed or have I misunderstood?
It’s hard to know where industrial espionage ends and regular espionage begins when countries and their industries have a lot at stake. Some countries in particular are known for blurry lines between corporate and government interests.
As for past discussions about zircaloy, researchers are investigating advanced ceramics as a replacement for zircaloy cladding in nuclear reactors.
http://nuclearstreet.com/nuclear_power_industry_news/b/nuclear_power_news/archive/2013/07/26/mit-researchers-study-ceramic-zircaloy-alternative-to-reduce-hydrogen-risk-072601.aspx#.UivL9z_suSo
Slimline ceramics comprised of hafnium and zirconium are also under investigation for use in space, as a replacement for the type of ceramic heat tiles used for the old space shuttles.
Intp1 wrote:
He knew of Saad’s work for Hetzbollah. Hetzbollah might have got their hands on an Israeli drone, and Saad was working out countermeasures. In my eyes — and I think in the eyes of any honest Brit — this is very hohorable and highly commendable work. Imagine if Germany had occupied Britain for 18 years, and the courageous Brits had thrown them out, like Hetzbollah threw Israel out in 2000. Then some ingeneous Brits had got hold on a German remote vessel and was trying to work out countermeasures. But then people like Kathy would say: “Don’t do it. Roll over on your back and wait for the next German attack”. And the German Stasi would get into all your mail and all your communications, even if you had encrypted them to the highest level. And in every war, there are traitors, and people who are willing to betray you. And this is what Zaid could have threatened to do.
[translated by Kenneth Sorensen (his emphasis]
Morning BB.
All that about Hussaini’s, where did Barak Hussain Obama get his ‘Hussain’ from ?
It is hardly an African name & having been known as Barry Soweto he changed his name.
Now you say: How could Zaid betray Saad, if US, Israeli and Brit inteligence allready knew what he was up to?
Well neither Saad nor his brother was unaware that even the correspondence which Saad had encrypted to the very highest level was intercepted. So in Saad’s eyes this sort of thing could only be exposed by some of his next of kin who knew what he was doing.
Now you say: How could Zaid betray Saad, if US, Israeli and Brit inteligence allready knew what he was up to?
Well neither Saad nor his brother was aware that even the correspondence which Saad had encrypted to the very highest level was intercepted. So in Saad’s eyes this sort of thing could only be exposed by some of his next of kin who knew what he was doing.
Hi katie
Al Husseini is a name of a palestinian tribe.
As a matter of fact this is the most powerful, wealthy and important tribe in palestine.
Hussein is just a first name for muslims.
If obama’s name is Barack Hussein Obama as you say (i dont know), then simply said, hussein obama is his father.
Al husseini, however, is a tribe’s name, just like “al khateeb” or “al shaaban” or “al saud” are tribes names.
Morning BB, many thanks.
Yes his father was a Muslim, hence the muslim education, though why he opted to change his name later is odd.
Kenneth Sorensen
8 Sep, 2013 – 6:40 am
As they didn’t live together & appear to hate each other, how would Zaid have known about that encryption…or are you saying one of the women betrayed him & told Zaid what was going on ?
It’s an old brother tale really – I think it goes back to Kain & Abel, and off course even further back. [The Kain & Abel story was in all likely hood an oral narrated story for generations, which was was written down by some sectarian Jewish tribe</em.] It happens when one brother who has previously been in confidence falls out.
Correct spelling is Soetoro & was the name of his step father, at some stage he went back to his birth name & inserted, Hussain.
“Investigative reporter Aaron Klein, in World Net Daily, points out that a 2007 Associated Press photograph taken by Tatan Syuflana, an Indonesian AP reporter and photographer, surfaced on the http://www.Daylife.com photographic website showing an image of Obama’s registration card at Indonesia’s Fransiskus Assisi school. In the picture, Obama is registered under the name Barry Soetoro by his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. The school card lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen born Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii. His religion is listed as Muslim
Madsen admits that Obama’s adoption was formal and carried out pursuant to Indonesian law. Soebarkah may be Obama’s given Indonesian name: a legal requirement in his formal adoption process to become an Indonesian citizen.
President Barack Obama, while growing up in Indonesia was an Indonesian Muslim known as Barry Soetoro. When did he change his name, renounce Islam and regain U.S. citizenship?”
http://www.examiner.com/article/is-he-barack-obama-or-barry-soetoro
B-R-E-A-K-I-N-G
@Bleb
That would be Xavier Baligant.
French detectives say they have now linked the murders of the British family with the mysterious death of tourist Xavier Baligant in July
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236716/British-family-massacred-Alps-shot-crazed-serial-killer-hatred-tourists-say-detectives.html
A strangely prescient comment?
Fig Rolls
8 Sep, 2012 – 2:46 am
SSTL aims to disrupt Russian and Chinese intelligence gathering over Syria. Once Russia/China are blinded a drone will be sent into Syria to disperse WMD (nerve agent/bio weapon) over a large population centre. Syrian government will be blamed and NATO will have it’s pretext for an all out attack. Simples.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/shootings-in-france/#comment-354646
Ferret
8 Sep, 2013 – 10:36 am
This DM article, like several around the anniversary smells like more smoke.
I personally don’t believe the Luger P06 + 3 clips assertion. It is a weapon that would be highly unlikely to be selected and somewhat unlikely to be successful in achieving the outcome presented.
Assassin leaving broken bits of gun handle is just too convenient.
from the Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/alhilli-killings-one-year-on-mystery-surrounds-the-quadruple-murder-in-the-alps-8801964.html
“The prosecutor – who is no longer leading the investigation but remains its chief spokesman – said the “family quarrel” was only one of three “equally strong” lines of inquiry. Mr Maillaud revealed that Saad al-Hilli had kept at his home in Claygate, Surrey, an “unusual” amount of documents from his work on weather-forecasting and crop-watching micro-satellites.
“His company worked for many foreign states,” Mr Maillaud said. “Any mention of foreign countries and industrial espionage inevitably raises the possibility of the involvement of secret intelligence agencies.”
“This is a very complex part of the inquiry… but investigations are far from being closed on this subject.””
“The killer is known to have used an antique 7.65mm Lugar P06 revolver, issued to the Swiss army and police in the 1920s and 1930s. Part of the handle of the gun was found at the scene.
Three clips of eight bullets were fired in a very short time, Mr Maillaud said. There were no bullet impacts on the bodywork of the car. This suggested that the attacker was an “experienced killer” but, otherwise, investigators had been unable to create a clear profile.
The use of such an old gun – widely available locally but not a weapon of choice for professional hitmen or secret agents – is one of the great remaining mysteries of the investigation. ”
So if EM no longer in charge, who decided to replace him, why and by whom? Of course we arn’t told.
By my reckoning (I only managed GSE “O” Level) 3 x 8 = 24. So now we have had 15; 21 all hitting targets; 24 none hitting the car bodywork; 25; “more than 25”; professional shooting; amateurish shooting; “spraying”; “targeting”; shooting at the top of the layby but miraculously all the cartridges at the bottom around the car. What a shambles.
And finally I can’t find in the reports any evidence of QUESTIONS from journalists at the “News Conference”. Who has ever heard of a News Conference without questions let alone relevant or searching ones?
Then from the BBC’s By Imogen Foulkes
BBC News, Annecy 5 September 2013 Last updated at 14:50 (obviously from a briefing as it pre dates the “press conference” by a day) we have this:
“Passersby were on the scene within minutes, calling for help and giving first aid to seven-year-old Zainab, who had serious head injuries after being shot and beaten. Dozens of bullet casings lay scattered around the al-Hillis’ car. Inside the car, underneath her dead mother’s skirts, four-year-old Zeena hid, and was not discovered by French police for a further eight hours.”
“These circumstances – the time of day, the physical evidence left at the scene, the two child witnesses, make this case unique and, some might think, uniquely easy to solve.” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23975138
How accurate is Imogen we might ask? If she is note not “passerby” (i.e. WBM) but “passersby”! Clearly she is referring to living witnesses. We were told that PD/B’s companions did not visit the scene so could not be so described. So presumably we are back to the “60 y o cyclist”? Why have we not been told about him? Why have the press been kept away from him in contrast to others? This shrieks of story management.
Then note in this report we have yet another variation on the bullet theme. This time we have “DOZENS of bullet casings” scattered around the car.
Think! people. Is 24 bullets “dozens”. I wouldn’t have said so but then Imogen might just have got carried away. The journalistic equivalent to “artistic license”?
But what is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, if there was dozens around the car it must mean the shots were ALL fired in the immediate vicinity of the car in its final position.
It conclusively rules out any suggestion of a man appearing from the top of the layby firing wildly. It conclusively rules out any attack starting with the car parked at the top of the layby. It conclusively rules out (as if further evidence was required) the tire marks and wide reverse sweep by the Al Hilli car.
The French police MUST know this, so to promote this explanation and holding to it MUST indicate collusion or cover-up. There can be no other logical explanation. The evidence is damning. Why does the press fail so abysmally to challenge the statements made?
Then she adds this from the same report:
“Still, French investigators have explored the idea of a contract killing, and the fact that at least three of the victims were carefully shot twice in the head, points to that possibility.
But the gunman, or gunmen, also shot wildly, randomly, firing at least 25 bullets from an antique Luger pistol, not a typical contract killer’s weapon, but easily obtainable just across the border in Switzerland, where it is ex-Swiss Army issue.”
How can Imogen possibly reconcile these two descriptions of “carefully shot” and “shot wildly, randomly at least 25 bullets”? No sensible person could yet Imogen sees no conflict.
Then we have the problem of the “at least 25”. Police say the Luger uses multiples of 8 and this has been confirmed independently. So unless the killer had one bullet in the chamber (highly dangerous practise) when he fitted the first full magazine of eight, to fire “at least 25” bullets he would need at least FOUR magazines and THREE changes, whilst firing at moving and obscured targets, with an old and obsolete hand gun, and still fulfil the the requirement to fit witness statements of a brief (30 SECONDS) of RAPID CONTINUOUS fire.
This is simply irrational.
I have just read your excellent comment on the Independent article Intp1
8 Sep, 2013 – 10:51 am. In full agreement with your assessment. Congratulations. There is a huge question over why the press has been determined NOT to pose these logical questions. It goes to the very heart of our democratic and legal process and undermines our faith in them. Will no one in a prominent/influential position take up the issue?
Good to be reminded of that one Ferret
8 Sep, 2013 – 10:39 am
Also liked this “next door” post by Tony Roma
7 Sep, 2012 – 10:14 pm. So long ago and yet so prescient as you say.
“makes ya proud init.
der bbc and der telegraph say may bee der bruver dunnit over a dispute about a house in spain.
or car jacking gone bad..maybe drugs.
maybe frank mi6 gardner says we may never no innit.
funny old world perfect location the french are useless and are very good at cover up’s.
mi6,mossad job using the tried and tested method the double tap mozambique drill.
how lucky of RAF hero on a push bike sounds like a bad script from midsomer murders.
just happened to live in the area never heard gunshots but was riding around a car park.
all that lovely landscape and he is hanging around a carpack.
the dead man worked for the raf and the raf found him with a hole in the head.
but it must be the brother cos der bbc say’s he is a suspect.
funny old world .”
Agreed Intp1
8 Sep, 2013 – 10:51 am – points I have made myself long time past. Can we rely on the forensics? If they are reliable and bullets give unimpeachable proof they came from the Luger described, the only other explanation is that they were PLANTED as a false trail. However this would entail a clean-up of the actual casings. That would have taken TIME and they didn’t have any before WBM arrival. That has implications for WBM too. I always had doubt about the spacial location of the cartridges, which if the early visuals are to be believed were all located at the rear off side of the car. Then ten more in or under it! This simply cannot be made to match gun (ejects UP and to the LEFT) or damage to the car windows. In fact if the visuals are accurate, and the fact that they all place the spent shells in the same location is strongly suggestive of authoritative police briefing, then planting them there cannot be ruled out. In fact it is more likely given the circumstances.
For anyone who doubts me, let a demonstration be carried out using a similar model Luger in the position the gunman must have been to cause the damage to car windows seen, to determine whether there would be a pile of bullets by the back off-side wheel as shown.