The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
RR
8 Sep, 2013 – 7:31 pm I haven’t seen you here b4. Hi and on behalf of CM I’m sure – welcome! Have you been following for some time or just come across us? If so a very impressive “maiden speech” if i may say so. We have considered your suggestion in the past. Russia is certainly capable. The reason i thought it unlikely was the fact that even after a year, neither Britain or France has pointed the finger east apart from a cheap Romanian hit man or “Serbian Paramilitaries” early on. Nor i think if it was Russian or Chinese operatives would there have been any call for all the French misinformation. Well thats my take on it anyway.
ps it always interests me when new contributors “pop up” at certain junctures on the thread.
(a bit bored see !)
@RR
Welcome on behalf of us all (especially if we are typing on an Ipad, in a hotel, with a dickie connection). But you are welcome.
I would like to welcome you more also. Your comment is hugely welcomed by us all…. I’d like to add, it’s a wonderful comment and we (if I can speak for us all…before room service arrives !) would love more comments.
“Let’s say that the Russians have asked Saad to put a backdoor in on the satellite”
Yes we all agree. That would be likely. All satellites come without suitable doors…so a kitchen door/back door is wonderful. Wonderful.
on this one you can see the bike clearly and some interesting back-packs but no dogs sadly.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00333/Video-_Adam_Sage_di_333725a.jpg
and this photo is difficult to reconcile with the most recent EM statement that none of the bullets damaged the car.
http://referentiel.nouvelobs.com/file/4791655-tuerie-de-chevaline-une-nouvelle-piste.jpg
still no sign of that rubbish bin …..anywhere near the scene?
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00333/112636882__333663b.jpg
perhaps despite being labelled up as chevaline, it’s somewhere else entirely? who knows?
@Ferret
re: Some political analysts accused Iran of being behind the murder of Saad [Al Hilli] for it was he who leaked pictures of Iranian nuclear reactors to Israel.
I can see two things wrong with this:
1) Israel probably gets all the satellite images it wants direct from the USA.
2) Do you think the French authorities would be reticent in pointing the finger at Iran if they had the slightest indication in that direction?
but if in any doubt, here it is again
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/wp-content/uploads/Chevaline-marking-crime-scene-300×168.jpg
slightly different angle from our friends at the gulf time using british guardian as source
“Colonel Benoit Vinnemann, who is leading the inquiry, said many of the recordings were in Arabic. They showed the level of suspicion and hatred between the two brothers and the depth of the conflict, which investigators described as “almost an obsession” for Saad al-Hilli.
The gunman, using a pre-war Swiss-made Luger P06 7.65mm Parabellum, fired 21 times, including twice into the heads of the three members of the Hilli family and five times into the cyclist, Syvain Mollier.
The killer shot from outside the vehicle, a maroon-coloured BMW estate, shattering the windows, but without scratching the bodywork.
In all, 17 of the shots hit a human target. With each gun magazine carrying eight bullets, the assassin would have had to reload the weapon at least twice. “I would not use the term professional gunman … but he was certainly what I would call a hardened gunman, experienced in situations of stress,” Maillaud said. “All we know is that there was one killer and he knew what he was doing: he was able to hit a moving target and change magazines, but we have no idea of his exact profile,” he added.”
http://www.gulf-times.com/sport/192/details/365144/french-alps-murder-tapes-%E2%80%98show-hatred-between-brothers%E2%80%99
From that same source (Gulf Times) [why is this in the sports section???]:
The Iraqi-born British engineer assassinated at an Alpine beauty spot a year ago kept dozens of hours of recordings of conversations that reveal the level of hatred and violence between him and his brother Zaid, a suspect in the case, French police said.
[…]
Colonel Benoit Vinnemann, who is leading the inquiry, said many of the recordings were in Arabic. They showed the level of suspicion and hatred between the two brothers and the depth of the conflict, which investigators described as “almost an obsession” for Saad al-Hilli.
Didn’t someone ask who was leading the enquiry if it was no longer EM?
Re the fraternal spat, I still think it’s a long shot from brotherly hatred and in-fighting over an inheritance to cold-blooded murder… although on the other hand, if what we’ve been told is true, Zaid stood to go to jail for forgery and fraud if caught, and as an accountant this would have been the end of his career, so he might have felt desperate and cornered. But all the family said this would have been unthinkable and totally out of character, FWIW.
Also:
Maillaud said: “This affair is very complex and international. What we need is proof and not scenarios or hypotheses. We need something that will stand up before a jury.”
… which might account for the French police’s reticence in laying the blame at any particular door before they have any actual evidence, rather than just a theory. Perhaps this was EM’s little jibe in our direction! 🙂
Bleb, I take your point about the Israeli’s getting intel direct from the USA, certainly gives pause for thought. Of course it doesn’t always work in that direction, and I don’t think they always have every piece of intel available… they may have had the photos but not analysed them properly, for example…
Mind you they do now have Reza Khalili who revealed back in March that the Iranians “have seen great progress” using laser-separation of isotopes (SILEX) to enrich uranium in their top-secret “Quds” facility.
The same source also reveals how scarily close Iran is to a full-blown nuclear arsenal complete with ICBM’s that will allow it to take on the superpowers. I understand the fanatics in charge in Iran believe that a war with the west will facilitate the coming of the tenth Imam, aka the “Mahdi” i.e. the Messiah.
Fritz Ermarth, who served in the CIA and as chairman of the National Intelligence Council, reviewed the imagery. “There is much work to be done by imagery analysts on the photos Reza (Kahlili) has produced,” he said. “For example, is spoil from the tunneling visible? Does it tell us how extensive the tunneling is? But taken as a package, this imagery strongly suggests that Iran is working on what we used to call an ‘objective force.’ That is the objective of a deployed force of nuclear weapons on mobile missiles, normally based in deep underground sites for survivability against even nuclear attack, capable of rapid deployment. … They do suggest that Iran is working the problem of becoming a nuclear weapons power in a serious way, not just playing around for a few nukes on the shelf.”
Ambassador Henry Cooper, the former director of the Strategic Defense Initiative and chief negotiator on nuclear and space treaties with the Soviet Union, said, “Iran’s apparent interest and investments in underground systems are clearly coupled with its programs to develop and potentially employ weapons of mass destruction in the face of armaments that may be deployed against them, whether by Israel (‘the little Satan’) or the United States (‘the Great Satan’). Most notable is the fact that Iran has already demonstrated its ability to launch satellites into low earth orbit. When they also gain confidence in their nuclear weapons, they can then use those launchers to place nuclear weapons in earth orbit and detonate them over wherever they wish, creating an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that could level its strategic playing field with all of Western civilization. This is perhaps their ultimate asymmetric weapon. Far-fetched? I wouldn’t bet (against) it.”
Mind you, all the satellite pictures in that article come from Google so why would anyone need secret photos from a spy satellite? You’d just need to know where to look…
http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/revealed-evidence-iran-crossed-nuclear-red-line
RR
8 Sep, 2013 – 7:31 pm
Ref,my suggestion you have mentioned. There was much misunderstanding & suspicion of that at the time.
We used to use “?com_num=500” to save a post [ elsewhere] because it put all comments on the same page, IE: no pagination.
However, it was a different site & no longer works all one gets now 404.
As for wanting to snoop around someone else’s computer………well really, I have a life & couldn’t think of anything more boring ……….especially if it were Tim’s where everything must be in at least triplicate.
James,
Re that satellite door, I suggest a stable door. ;-))
Yes ferret I asked who was leading the investigation, the question was answered on that link given by Pink .
Although i personally dont think that this event had anything to do with satellites or nuclear technoligy, just for your records: (for my theory this is a simple international money laundering/money theft issue).
http://www.roitov.com/articles/laser.htm
December 17, 2011
According to the newspaper, Iran blinded a CIA spy satellite. The paper added that a European intelligence source claimed Iran stunned the West by accurately aiming a laser burst at an American satellite in a never before reported incident.
DMC:
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/uk-dmc-2.htm
http://www.sstl.co.uk/Missions/DMC3/DMC3/DMC3–The-Mission
Whoever the killer was he leaves the following questions.
If he were a professional, his employer didn’t tell him there two children ?
If he did know there were two children why leave them alive ?
Did he leave the children because he was in some way emotionally attached to them………relatives ?
If he were a professional,would he have run out of bullets ?
Ferret just quoted an article from WND about a man involved in the infamous SDI, the so called “Starwars” project of the mid 80s which cost a lot of taxpayers money and didn’t work – and didn’t even bring the USSR down, a view that is common among Reaganists
– saying the following self-evident stuff (though apparently not to Ferret) [I do urge you to sharpen up and not waste our time with trivialities] :
That’s a result of constantly threatening them with attack – they go underground with their research. This is so self evident, that I hardly thought it was necessary to mention and there no need to quote this man here in a forum which is frequented by intelligent and knowledgeable people.
Countries want nuclear weapons because they are an insurance against attacks. They can’t be used offensive – not without your own country being retaliated against soon after. And no rational country (and all the evidence we have is that the Iranian leadership is very rational. Mr. Ahmed Dinnerjacket was not in charge of the place even though he had the title as President. i just mention him because i know you would point to him as an example of someone who was not rational, but even he was and is quite rational) would risk giving the fruits of years of painstaking research to terrorists, as inevitable any use of nuclear weapons in this way would be tracked back to Iran, and the response would be the same as sketched out earlier.
All the evidence we have is that the Iranians are very clever and in all probability they realise that its not in their interest to get the bomb now (although constantly threatening them is certainly not the way to go about if you don’t want to see them one day with a weapon. But who is constantly threatening: Israel, who know no other way than confrontation and to provoke people) but they just want the cabability to one day be able to manufacture them, like say Japan has. It is generally agreed that Japan could make them within ½ year, if it wanted – or Sweden or any other developed industrialised country. Today they have the greatest army in the area, with the greatest number of people under arms – and this conventional advantage would disappear, were they to get a nuclear weapon, because then Saudi Arabia and Egypt might follow suit. So that’s why the Iranians in all probability have figured out that it is not in their interest to get this weapon now.
The West really cannot in perpetuality prevent people who wears turbans from developing industrially. When the oil has dried out it makes sense to have nuclear power – although it is getting out of fashion elsewhere, some of their peer partners, like Russia and China has a plenty, and show no signs of abandoning this means for generating electricity.
KS, it only makes sense to have nuclear power from fast reactors. Thorium is the future, I know they don’t create weapons grade material, which is almost certainly why they were dropped, but they do burn old nuclear waste, I am mystified as to why governments have not been building them in preparation for our fuel shortfall.
The power they provide is greater too.
Ferret
9 Sep, 2013 – 7:39 am – “Didn’t someone ask who was leading the enquiry if it was no longer EM?” Yep that was me Ferret. That’s part of the reason I posted that Gulf Times article as it was the first (and only I think) time I had seen it mentioned. Of course we knew Vinnemann was on the case from the beginning. Do we assume he is of German stock (or no)?
http://shoebat.com/2011/12/16/this-jerusalem-document-was-signed-by-husham-al-husayni-husseini-the-dearborn-imam-featured-on-all-american-muslims/
In case that Israel or zionism is behind that killing, then most likely it was that document that is the key.
The Muslim “Mein Kampf” statement. Signed by the NAZI Palestinian al Husseini representative and by Waleed al Hilli and (as a strong guess) by Kazem (Kadhim) al Hilli (al Husseini al Khatib), too.
It was also signed by al Hakim whose personal aide and speaker of SCIRI is Haitham al Hilli (al Husseini).
It is a pity that in this document there was a computer translation in use. Thetefore many of the important and revealing names: e.g. jewelry and ornaments = al hilli) were translated into english and mean nothing to us but stupid names. We really would need access to that original document and a name list by an Arab language expert.
Mohammed Amin al Husseini, mufti of jerusalem and most powerful Arab political leader in the early- mid 1900dreds. The al Husseini family (iraqi part = “al husseini al hilli”) was one of the most powerful families in the arab world and in jerusalem and probably still is. please note that famous Yasser Arafat is a relative of the al Husseini family, too.
http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1987-004-09A,_Amin_al_Husseini_und_Adolf_Hitler.jpg
With the al Husseini family and it’s Iraqi part, the al Hillis as well as with the Shaabans in Lebanin, there is the ruling evidence of Muslim Brotherhood and Hezbollah within 3 powerful Arab families.
Finally it is no surprise that current leading families of the al Husseini, al Hilli and al Hakim family are calling their political manifesto regarding anti zionism “Mein Kampf”.
The al Husseini family was always involved in anti zionism and mohammed al husseini was a personal friend of Adolf Hitler and due to historians he was personally involved in holocaust orders.
Finally i am not surprised when Saad had an apparent meeting with the extreme right in france (mollier; christian mollier, MRT) and that Zaid is (covertly) working in a “golf club” run by the extreme right of the UK and Ireland.
Every puzzle stone is fitting better as time goes by, particularly when thinking of the real and original ARIENS, originally coming from Iran (Saffarid empire).
Continues ….
http://www.masada2000.org/Arafat-Husseini.html
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat
As you can read above, the same situation appeared to happen already 100 years ago. We have to say good bye to the brain washed theories of “good versus evil” and particularly of e.g. UK versus Iran or USA versus Russia or Israel versus Syria.
This easy and false brain washing does not exist and never existed.
This is all about money and economic power and of course about political ideology.
This is Israel versus Israel, UK versus UK, USA versus USA, Lebanon versus Lebanon, Iran versus Iran and even Russia versus Russia. This is mafia versus mafia.
We won’t understand political context and history if we would look at international battles as if we looked at a football game representing teams of two different countries. It isnt that. This is a “national league”.
There are the interests of the extreme right colliding with the interests of royalties and zionists. That war happens within every country. This is civil war but they dont sell it to us as civil war. They call it “terrorism”. They are brainwashing us. Except for that the NSA is calling their surveillance software “CIVIL WAR”, “Bullrun”, “Manassa” and GCHQ calling theirs “Edgehill”. They are at least honest with their software names. This is world wide civil war for money and power! And the battle represents our civil war and is just fought at a substitute place in the middle east.
This isnt UK+USA versus Russia+Iran.
This is a mafia war: Uk vs UK and USA vs USA and USA vs UK and Russia vs Russia and Iran vs Iran.
Finally al hilli/al husseini ar in the midst of those interests.
Bb
It strikes me you do not know Tim……. HE is a She. ‘See’ directrice’.
‘En présence de la capitaine Moulié, directrice d’enquête et du commandant Vinnemann, qui dirige la section de recherches de la gendarmerie de Chambéry, ainsi que de deux représentants des forces de l’ordre britannique (Nick May, détective super intendant et Mark Preston, detective chief inspector), le procureur a rappelé l’énorme travail accompli par l’équipe commune d’enquête franco-britannique depuis douze mois’
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2013/09/06/tuerie-de-chevaline-le-conflit-d-heritage-reste-la-piste-privilegiee
JON…………….
I AM HAVING REAL TROUBLE POSTING.
Even deleting cookies doesn’t help.
I do know what one x 1 or 2-2 is . 🙂
How I love the cheap sniping directed at me from certain persistent quarters. “Stable door”. Yep I think the horse bolted long ago.
Now back to a question that somebody sensible on here may be able to answer. The photo I referenced above of five marked bullet casings I assume next to what appears to be a litter bin inside a rustic enclosure.
It is labelled “Chevaline”. If it is, WHERE WAS THE LITTER BIN?
Maybe there is an obvious answer but I’ve looked at all available views and I can’t see one. Can anyone else?
UK versus UK continues
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Snowden
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethel_Snowden
Maybe coincidence, but i wonder whether or not Snowden is a real coincidence regarding UK versus UK and Russia. Perhaps our politicians and NSA should learn more about history. Sir Herbert Samuel (who was appointing Hajj Mohammed Amin al Husseini) was politically related to the Snowdens. Mrs. Snowden was related and supported to the Russian revolution but later she condemned Bolsheviks. She was an UK spcialist representative in Russia. Ten years later Mrs. Snowden was even speaking well about Hitler but later she was condemnig the NAZIs.
Like Sir Samuel Herbert, the Snowdens were aides and friends of the London Rothschild family.
@Ferret – I wouldn’t believe all you read on WND. Especially about Iran.
“WorldNetDaily (WND) is an American web site that publishes news and associated content from the perspective of U.S. conservatives and the political right …”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldNetDaily
I think they might just be, slightly, demonising Iran and the Iranians.
Its the US neo-cons and Zionists that scare me.
All OT, sorry.
@Katie – your question re If he were a professional, his employer didn’t tell him there two children ?
What about: the killer(s) were aware there might be children present but simply had no orders about the children? They were not to be explicitly harmed nor were they to be explicitly protected. If they got hurt too bad.
If a state agency was behind this I can’t imagine them getting too emotional about children if they got in the way of the objective.
re: stable door – I would suggest mini-bar door might be nearer the mark 🙂
re. Tim V
7 Sep, 2013 – 2:00 am Thanks for doing that Jon. (Only just noticed)
BTW – that wasn’t directed at you Tim. You don’t come across as an alcoholic 😉
Bleb
9 Sep, 2013 – 2:01 pm
Thanks for picking that up Bleb.
It intrigues me that a seven year old was left alive, the killer could not have thought she was dead & children at that age are pretty observant.
I’ve always been more interested in the motive than the method.
wELL DISCUSSED bb @ Bluebird
9 Sep, 2013 – 12:28 pm I talked about that Shoeblatt document way back including the Al Hilli signing it and the connections to other centres including Sweden. Just recently I watched a Obama press conference in Sweden when their Prime Minister specifically mentioned the Hezbollah connection there. That document you notice was signed in London on the 9th SEPTEMBER 2000! It called for the removal of Israel from the occupied territories as I recall. It was a gatheringing of a cross section of academic, business, professional (including a number of dentists!) and religious leaders from Iraq and the Middle East. Do I need to point out it was almost exactly a YEAR before the fateful American attacks, that are now known to be nothing to do with al Qaeda and everything to do with mossad/cia. Further almost exactly TWELVE YEARS to Chevaline. Twelve is a significant number to Christian culture. It is even more significant to Jewish culture. I am surprised we didnt discuss that document more. It may have been pivotal to both events! Why in London? Who initiated it? What part did MI6 and the FO play in it? What flowed from it or was it overtaken and drowned by events? How many of those that attended are still alive/active. Did it resurrect ancient animosities between Israel and Britain seen to be allowing/encouraging an anti Jewish slant? Are there no “insiders” who could tell answer these questions?
http://shoebat.com/2011/12/16/this-jerusalem-document-was-signed-by-husham-al-husayni-husseini-the-dearborn-imam-featured-on-all-american-muslims/
@stable door !
The “back door” comment was made at “RR” who suggested that Saad may have been requested to put a “back door” on a satellite for the Russians.
It’s humour Bleb ! Maybe little bit over your head.
@Tim’s bin !
Is that picture a “photo grab” from TV news ?
Do the “TV news” use “library footage”.
Because I can’t imaging a blooming TV crew wandering around the Martinet car park filming the SOCO !!!!
You need a “thinking cap”. Then you can wear it when checking dates of articles and pictures (and pictures with road names in ! Wink !)
Tim
That video is interesting regarding the muslim version “Mein Kampf”.
Why did they use that title for their manifesto?
You are right. The guys who signed are exactly the SCIRI group families.
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2012/01/27/tlc-networks-all-american-muslim-imam-is-seen-openly-supporting-terror-and-genocide-on-us-arabic-tv-network/