The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
I didnt get how they mentioned property in “OTHER COUNTRIES”? or Investigations where carried out in Italy, France, UK, Switz…….amongst other countries?………………..what other countries this could be key!
Also when Saad’s father put the money into the Geneva bank in 88 I think it was (correct me if im wrong) where was teh money from? it seemed like the money was someone elses as he depositied the money and never touched it? how can they not follow the money trail?
To be honest when watching the programme I thought how well this board had investigated this crime as most of what was said on the program has been discussed here!
Ricki, what did you think of Zaids barely concealed anger at the French ?
If he really does know who’s behind it but has his hands tied through fear [?] it would explain that anger & frustration.
Also the Luger! if I where a security agency I would search for the most popular weapon in the area so that after the crime the police cant see the wood for the trees! Using a SIG, Baretta or Glock would have set alarm bells ringing!
Would a Ruger Mark II take the same caliber!
The other thing that still confuses me or doesnt sit right is the number of bullets fired at a moving target and having to re-load twice in such a small timescale???
This is what the French say at the end of this piece.
“Investigators have information that they do not want to reveal too soon, not to pollute the evidence and keep the hope of confusing a possible suspect. We still have assets in our game. All analyses were not yet made and a strategy to use them at the right time.”
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2013/10/22/tuerie-de-chevaline-le-portrait-robot-du-motard-va-etre-diffuse
He’s playing a dangerous game to be honest! I found him very strange, that doesnt mean to say he had anything to do with the murder hes just a very strange man!
He did know something more you could tell, he wanted to say more
especially when you saw him get angry he was almost biting his lip? I may have missed it but have we ever discussed Mollier new girlfirends family? If he does know then he is witholding information and afraid that he may lose his own life, he didnt look like he wanted to take a trip to France anytime soon.
It made me laugh when he mentioned racist elements and then said I dont like/trust the French (which I thought was slighlty racist in itself).
Why was Saad’s neighbour not interviewed he had a lot to say at the time???
I still think that the amount of computers in his home and the hard drives, pen drives and images in teh Caravan are key, if the images wherent military what where they, whats the harm in saying?
Yes the Schultz family were discussed at length, I don’t think Zaid blames them , Mollier arrived after the Al Hilli’s so surely if Mollier was the target that would have made the killer abandon the operation of pop a shot at him on their way down the hill, it would have been easy ?
No, I think Zaids frustration with the French is that he cannot relax until the killer/s are caught, that he also would like to give his theory but daren’t ?
Plus the French system is to arrest then ask questions so he is wise to stay in the UK. Lucky for him it’s a joint op.
EDIT: Abandon the operation ‘OR’ pop a shot at him on the way down.
Yes you are right! I do think Zaid has a theroy on it for sure, I will re-read the schultz family discussion thanks!
Thanks Katie
Re: Translation
That makes sense and it is similar to what my translation software said. Just the “heroine” did not fit but the rest was almost perfectly translated. Perhaps ” heroine” relates to the town of falluja (heroic town).
BB.
I’ve been chatting to him,he’s not related,lives in the UK & has not been interviewed by the rozzers. ;-))
You can see it all on the Twitter link I’ve left further up.
Ricki and katie:
This is the Schutz family. Not: “Schultz”.
In fact this is the Schutz-Morange family.
On the other hand i dont think that mollier was any target at all. In my theory he was possibly one of the assassins. And his death might have confused the pre arranged official story:
“Father went nuts due to depths or psycho proplems and he kills his wife, mother in law and his children and finally himself in france, due to psychological problems”. Thats a headline we are reading over and over again. Last week the same headline was published in MSM regarding a 9/11 conspiracy book author who killed his children and himself.
And that’s where all the problems for a new good story started. They had to invent a new script within a few hours for the MSM, but then they made some errors and their mess started.
Katie
I read his twitter.
He is following Ammar al Hakim, ISCI and Ayad Allawi on his twitter account. Pretty much the same of what the “real” al Hillis are doing.
I am suspicious about his falluja sentence. There is no relation. Why did he write that sentence as a comment to the panorama show? It’s totally off topic. And his name is “al hilli”. And he’s currently in london.
There’s too much coincidence. I dont believe him.
BB.
I wondered the same,but further down the Al Hilli thread he says another prayer.
He looks very straight & upright on his You tube lectures………..but a large number of followers.
Shutz yes BB, have just re-read and can remember now, I was pretty active on here at that time! a lot of water under the bridge!
LOL
Alps murders: Efit of motorcyclist to be released
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24627783
What will it be? A motor cycle helmet with a visor?
Completely agree Intp1
22 Oct, 2013 – 9:17 am. I’ve always found your observations spot-on.
I agree on the astounding new WBM story that he was “Pretty sure” that it was the Al Hilli’s car that went past him, without any explanation on the basis of this Panorama programme either:
a. why he didn’t identify it in his widely publicised first account so soon after the event?
b. why it has taken so long to “remember” it?
c. why his early account of the green 4×4 has now apparently been dropped completely?
d. why in this programme he has changed his story to “catching up” SM rather than the opposite that SM caught him up and overtook him at some point?
e. why the programme ignores completely the evidence of builder Filon that would make his accont impossible unless they did indeed double back to Doussard – a suggested but highly improbable explanation
In fact as you say the only reason he has amended his story so completely as far as I can see is to fit that crazy 3.15 photo-shot story that I am sure someone involved is wishing they had never introduced.
But this is far from the end of all the problems that the Panorama report throws up. We now have some completely new and highly significant details from that alleged Forestry man which is part first hand and part hearsay.
The former is that he came down the hill and sees the alleged shooter dressed all in black with visor on white motor bike with panniers precisely at the murder spot. Clearly the Al Hillis can’t be at the lay-by at this point or he would have said so it must be before 3.30 at the latest.
He then says he continues down the hill and identifies the exact spot where the grey BMW X5 passes him at great speed. So if this new account can be trusted, and both these vehicles were involved in the murders as is the clear inference, they were both at the scene BEFORE the Al Hillis/Mollier arrived. This would tend to support my contention from the first, disputed by EM, that a 4X4 was likely on scene at some point. It goes without saying there was more than one person involved.
So as I raised before, what dereliction of duty could explain why the police with-held this important evidence, that they must have had from the beginning, that might have assisted their search and identification of prime suspects?
But there is more, much more.
First he does not claim to pass either SM, WBM or SAH on his continued journey down the valley or indeed that his colleagues did either who came down after him. So this must push the time of their sightings back even further. Yet the British police gave the time as 3.20 one kilometre up the combe. So on this basis none of the victims were approaching Martinet until after he departed the combe about 3.30.
How then could they all be shot at 3.30 based on witnessed shots?
Further it is stated in the programme that SAH arrives at Martinet at about 3.40 (ie ten minutes after the shots!) and WBM arrives about 3.45. They confirm he couldn’t make the first call yet still it is claimed it was made at 3.48. In other words the claim is being made that the first call is made only THREE minutes after Martin arrives, in which he does all those things and cycles down the combe before he meets Didierjean/Bossy to make the call. Of course this UTTER NONSE.
But there is yet more.
The Forest worker states that the self same motor cyclist was intercepted further up the track, the rider interviewed with helmet off presumably as he gives a brief description. As quasi law enforcers it is quite unbelievable that they would not have obtained personal and bike details but these crucial details have never been released. At the very least, Maillaud should explain why.
Now they apparently escorted him down from the mountain track. So they too would have to pass Martinet, but still no sign of the victims it appears either there or further down, nor a second sighting of the BMW X5! So where has this gone? And of course it blows clearly out of the water that they were at that stage involved in the shooting or that second forestry team would have come upon the murder scene.
Yet we are led to believe these were the people/vehicles involved in the murder at precisely the critical time by no less than the British AND French police who confirmed the first forestry worker passed the BMW x5 going up at 3.20 which would mean the second forestry team MUST have escorted the motor bike suspect back past the murder scene.
Are they in fact saying this or is it all a PACK OF LIES?
Now as to Katie
22 Oct, 2013 – 7:47 am where you say
“Tim, you keep chasing your tail. Why spend so much time & effort trying to work out how it was done,it did happen,it makes not a jot of difference now whether the car was red white or blue or if it happened 3 minutes earlier , or later than stated or where the bodies were.
With unreliable stories, you will never get the true timings.” I clearly don’t agree and I hope the above discussion explains why.
This Panorama 13 months after the event purports to tell the truth and broadcasts a number of individuals who purport to be telling the truth, some such as ZAH and the “forestry worker” for the first time.
Now if indeed the forestry worker is telling the truth it raises very serious questions as to why the prosecutor withheld vital information in the first instance, and in the second quite unanswerable inconsistencies in the story line that just cannot be reconciled unless they or other accounts are lies. Which are which I will leave you to decide but they could not possibly be promulgated without the tacit or active consent of the prosecutor and police, that much is certain and that would require a very high level of deceit and motivation that I believe only States could provide.
Correction.
Oh dear! that was meant to be “is UTTER NONSENSE” of course (not nonse)
Tim so what ? Most of us have accepted the whole thing is a cover up ……….. What you have to do is draw your own conclusions from all the info that has been given us.
With the French,the British,the witnesses, the cultures,the language, the press, etc etc…….. surely you don’t ‘expect ‘ things to tally, only a fool would expect that ?
I got to thinking last night that the vehicle may not have changed colour by deceit but by ‘misinterpretation’. Grey in French is Gris…pronounced Gree so think about that.
@Mary.
Yes this is what the Telegraph say, quite unbelievable deception by the French:
“By Rory Mulholland, Paris3:13PM BST 22 Oct 2013
French police are due to release the first photofit image of the bearded motorcyclist seen near the scene of the murder of a British-Iraqi man and his family in the Alps a year ago.
Police have had the image since the start of their investigation but withheld it until now for “strategic reasons”, prosecutor Eric Maillaud said.
“We didn’t want this person to go into hiding,” he said, adding it would be made public in the coming days”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10396830/French-police-to-release-e-fit-of-cyclist-in-al-Hilli-shooting.html
So by that they are now trying to force him to, show his hand, to run, to hide ?
Ah Ha! Could this be what SAH got hot under the collar about and wanted to sabotage even? It would be surprising if SSTL as part of the Astrium Group which in turn is part of EADS. Hope this pleases you Katie, urging we look for possible MOTIVATION. This story could not be more directly related to SAH or EADS or Israel. What if SAH got wind of it more than a year before the signing and wanted to let other parties know given what we know about his anti zionist feelings. How might he scupper it or at least forewarn others? There is sufficient reason here that Israel or agents of EADS or French might want to ensure it didn’t leak. Of course SM was ultimately employed by Areva involved in all things nuclear and 90% owned by the French State however I still fail to see the necessary link unless SM was the route to “other parties” for which electronic transfer could not be trusted. I have often posed the possibility that SM was actually a British asset into the French nuclear industry? Three years “paternity leave” has always appeared to me to be quite unlikely and atypical, even in France. What was the true reason?
“OCTOBER 22, 2013
Israel becomes major partner in EU satellite program
by David Shamah
[Times of Israel]
At a gala event Monday evening in Jerusalem, Science and Technology Minister Yaakov Peri and the head of the Israel Space Agency, Menachem Kidron, signed an agreement with European Union officials to give Israeli researchers and companies access to projects associated with the EU’s Galileo satellite program.
Officially called the Cooperation Agreement on a Civil Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) between the European Community and its Member States and the State of Israel, the deal was inked on the EU side by Antonio Tajani, Vice President of the European Commission, responsible for Industry and Entrepreneurship, and the incoming EU Ambassador to Israel, Lars Faaborg-Andersen.
By the end of the decade, EU officials expect to have some 30 satellites in orbit, doing everything from checking out weather and climate patterns to monitoring outer space and providing GPS services to the world. While the satellites put into space by the US and Russia are perfectly serviceable, EU officials said, the European GNSS will be the only system to provide services like GPS from satellites run by a civilian organization instead of a military. In addition, the new satellites will provide more coverage, bandwidth, and availability of satellite-based services, as the demand for such services continues to grow.
As an official EU program that is not military in nature, the Galileo project will be open to absorbing technology from a wide variety of sources. As a result of the new agreement, Israel will be one of those sources, Israeli space officials said. Israeli companies will now be able to participate in tenders to supply software and hardware to companies involved in the project, and Israeli scientists and academics will be able to initiate and participate in studies and experiments that will be part of the Galileo program.
Israel had negotiated a similar but more-limited agreement with the EU about 15 years ago, but it was shelved when the European GNSS program faced difficulties getting off the ground. The new agreement is a major improvement over the old one, officials said, as it gives Israeli academics and companies security clearance to actually work on portions of the project.
Speaking at the event on Monday, Peri thanked Tajani for his efforts in fostering the agreement with Israel. “This agreement is a milestone in relations between Israel and the EU, and shows our mutual admiration for each other’s research and development capabilities. GPS capabilities have become a major part of our lives, and this agreement will lead to strategic, security, and economic cooperation between Israel and the EU in the coming years.”
“Space research”, said Kidron, “is an area that has moved forward aggressively in recent years, and has a great deal of influence on our quality of life. This agreement will enable Israeli companies to join an industry worth tens of millions of dollars, and enable Israeli researchers to widen their scope and participate in the most important projects in Europe.””
Read more: http://www.terminalx.org/2013/10/israel-becomes-major-partner-in-eu-satellite-program.html#ixzz2iTR2vsyJ
As a reminder, this is EADS:
“The European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company N.V. (EADS) is a global pan-European aerospace and defence corporation registered in the Netherlands and a defence and military contractor worldwide. The group includes Airbus which manufactures commercial aircraft, and Airbus Military which manufactures tanker, transport and mission aircraft; Eurocopter, the world’s largest helicopter supplier; Astrium, providing systems for aerial, land, naval and civilian security applications including Ariane, Galileo and Cassidian. Through Cassidian, EADS is a partner in the Eurofighter consortium as well in the missile systems provider MBDA. In 2011, the EADS generated revenues of €49.13 billion and employed 133,115 personnel[citation needed]. EADS was formed on 10 July 2000 by the merger of Aérospatiale-Matra, DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA), and Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA (CASA). Overall, the company develops and markets civil and military aircraft, as well as communications systems, missiles, space rockets, satellites, and related systems. In 2013, it was announced that EADS is planning to change its name to Airbus Group” WIKI
Good to see you back in form directing your personal criticisms (“surely you don’t ‘expect ‘ things to tally, only a fool would expect that ?) in my direction. It reminds my of George Bush when questioned about his involvement in the Contra drugs/arms running by the CIA of which he was Director when he was running for President: “We’ve dealt with that. It’s history.” As you must know Katie “the devil is in the detail” and it is only by examining the detail can it be proved that French Prosecutor lies are being told. What is more I shall not be deflected from highlighting them by you or anyone else, until we finally get an account that is internally and externally compatible. This is a broad church, and I am content everyone plays to their strengths. Mine, if I have any, is subjecting the reports to critical examination to see if they work. That is what got me into this and it is what I will keep doing. Yours is obviously discussing possible motivations so good luck to you. Now let us each follow our hunches without continuous cheap jibes. As far as EM is concerned, and his failure at the earliest opportunity to circulate full details of the alleged forestry officer sightings, (one of those “obvious” facts I drew attention to that you clearly despise) must surely be sufficient to make him consider his position?
E-fit why has all this taken so long? They have had loads of staff and had all the computers and phone records for ages why are they only now getting around to looking at it? E-fits usually come out days after a crime!!! It seems to me that all these files and information have been at Vauxhall Cross and now that the circus have finished their investigation it’s been released to the Police!
…. or something like this …?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/21/us-french-surveillance-legitimate-questions?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2&et_cid=53567&[email protected]&Linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fworld%2f2013%2foct%2f21%2fus-french-surveillance-legitimate-questions
and how about this for another tiny etymological co-incidence? “head of the Israel Space Agency Menachem Kidron”?
30.1.2012
“Menachem Kidron, former assistant director general and head of the Manor and technologies divisions at Rafael, was appointed manager of the Israeli space administration. Kidron will be replacing Dr. Zvi Kaplan. Professor Itzhak Ben Israel continues to head the agency.
According to recent reports, the Israeli government allocated the administration a new budget standing at 150 million NIS. In a special interview given to IsraelDefense Magazine, Ben Israel said, “the central idea in the national space program is to leverage our assets in space towards commercial exports.”
The Israeli space program began approximately thirty years ago. Since the 1990s, Israel has been operating several communication satellites. The last satellite, Amos 5, was launched on December 2011.
In addition to communication satellites, Israel also launched nine Ofek satellites into space for photography purposes. The defense industries are currently discussing projects for developing tiny satellites, which will be launched into orbit in space from F-15 aircraft, according to immediate operational necessity.”
http://www.israeldefense.com/?CategoryID=486&ArticleID=860
“Director of the Israel Space Agency
Menachem Kidron has served as Director of the Israel Space Agency in the Ministry of Science and Technology since January 2012.
Kidron, who was born in Germany, holds a Bachelor’s degree in chemical engineering from the Technion. His professional career began in 1972 with Rafael, where he worked in engineering and in rocket propulsion system development, eventually becoming administration head and field director of propulsion systems and explosives. He went on to serve as Senior Deputy CEO and as head of Rafael’s Manor – Advanced Defense Technologies Division.
As part of his professional activity Kidron spent two years in the United States, at Stanford University and at New York University, where he worked on the development of lightweight structures and on ways of employing coal for energy production. His most recent positions at Rafael were Senior Deputy CEO and Division Director; since 2009 he has headed the Space Systems Administration. In the context of this latter role Kidron has been responsible for the fiscal management of a NIS 500 million per year enterprise, as well as for unit policy, long-term planning, research and resource management, cultivating the unit’s technological infrastructures, marketing, business development and representing the company abroad.
Awards conferred on Kidron during his years at Rafael include:
The Rafael Development Prize for the AUS-51 Advanced Upper Stage Rocket Motor, and the Rafael Outstanding Achievement Prize for work done by the Popeye engine development team. Kidron is married and the father of a son and a daughter.”
http://most.gov.il/English/space/isa/director/Pages/default.aspx
“Space Systems
RAFAEL’s space activities are focused on space propulsion, composite materials, micro-satellite technologies and airborne launchers.
RAFAEL has gained extensive experience in developing, qualifying and producing controllable propulsion and reaction control systems (RCS), based on hot gas (solid rocket motors and hydrazine thrusters), cold gas (mainly nitrogen) and electric propulsion (based on Hall Effect Thrusters) for space applications.
RAFAEL has presently in-orbit propulsion modules in over thirty satellites. Rafael complete propulsion modules are on board the OFEQ, EROS and TecSAR satellites while Rafael’s positive-expulsion propellant tanks are on board Proteus, Galileo-GIOVE-B, Spirale, Prisma, Myriad/Astrosat-100 and other satellites. Rafael supplies the propellant tanks and Hydrazine thrusters for the Galileo IOV, Globalstar-2 and O3B constellations, GMES Sentinel-1 and other satellites.
The European Space Association (ESA) has chosen RAFAEL space propulsion products for Hershel & Plank, Galileo-IOV, Sentinel-1, EXOMARS and the IXV spacecrafts.
RAFAEL’s Electric Propulsion system is integrated in the Venµs satellite that hosts two propulsion systems (hydrazine and electrical).”
http://www.rafael.co.il/Marketing/256-en/Marketing.aspx
Agreed Ricki Tarr
22 Oct, 2013 – 8:23 pm. Will the British police challenge this decision to withhold critical information, considering it is a “Joint Investigation Team”? You notice in the Panorama film EM effectively criticised the British police for preventing his access to ZAH and the belated arrest. He wasn’t however challenged about sitting on the photo-fit or the other vehicle information (and I am sure they know more than that related) for more than a year. Who will challenge him now? The French media. The British media? In the circumstances their inability to trace car or motorbike is simply not believable.
Man re-bailed in connection with Annecy murder investigation
http://www.surrey.police.uk/news/news-stories/full-news-story/article/7028/man-re-bailed-in-connection-with-annecy-murder-investigation
No surprise.