The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Jeezus !
Tim’s post get longer and longer…and little ?
No one yet thought about the first forests guys report ?
It tells a tale though doesn’t it !
First no witnesses…and the place is rife.
Then Zaid, Martin. The ONF guy. Eric. Zanni. …and all
And this place is as quiet as anything !
Kind of get the feel for things.
If ole dead Anders was ‘ere… I reckon he’d be quiet also !
Had a look at Lizard Boyz place. Jeez.
Conspiracy theory my ass ! Five minute wonders more like !
Flying Saucers ! What do you think of reptile able flying saucer drivers ?
We have discussed satellites, mini sat’s and what SSTL and other countries had put up there, in fact we also discussed that SSTL made a Satellite that could bring other satellites back through orbit or even destroy them! Very close to the murder a strange comet was seen over the UK and Europe, some say that it was a defence satellite falling to earth and apparently from analysis from another website that it could have only been owned by the Israeli’s (because of it position), look back in the achieve. It was my theory at the time and think it is very plausible to think that Saad using his knowledge and resource from SSTL could have brought down a Israeli satellite and could have been killed because of it.
Reninder that Jane Corbin made the pro-Israel travesty of a programme on the Mavi Marmara slaughter, Death in the Med. It attracted widespread criticism.
Her late husband John Maples was one time chairman of the powerful Israel lobby group in the House of Commons, known as the Conservative Friends of Israel.
He claimed his residence in the RAC Club in Pall Mall as his second home. Some chutzpah there!
I have always thought that there was some Mossad involvement in these killings knowing of their involvement in extra judicial assassinations on several continents.
A worthwhile contribution Mary
23 Oct, 2013 – 1:27 pm. The background of the people behind these programmes can never be irrelevant. It introduced “new” facts without explaining how they can fit with the story line, not least that we have not one but TWO forestry vehicles (and at least THREE employees) driving down the Combe precisely at the time it is being alleged the multiple murders are either about to take place, or taking place or has taken place! The first forestry vehicle driver sees the motor cyclist waiting so we must assume this is BEFORE the murder, but the second vehicle guys meet him AFTER, we must assume, the murders. Yet they escort him down past the murder scene without seeing anything apparently! This is clearly ludicrous. We know these two bookmark the killings because the first vehicle is time logged to 3.20 passing the BMW x 5 driving up at speed one third of the way up. So either the Forestry man is telling the truth and what we have been previously told is a pack of lies, or vice versa. As far as I can see it is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile the two.
Until the police create an accurate and credible time line for all the events, everything they put out must be regarded with deep suspicion.
I had an exchange with an ‘ investigative journalist’ today.
Whilst on the Panorama, Al Hilli Twitter thread, the woman leapt on my comment when I said the facts of the case had changed, she wanted to know which facts had changed.
Anyone heard of this female: Meirion Jones ?
Katie
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meirion_Jones
Best is you give her the craig murrey link. Maybe she will be able to learn something.
@Katie…
since you have contact with her…ask her to write the following.
Could she provide information on the one witness that passed the X5 coming up hill?
It (or “it”) has failed to have been spotted by Martin, Bossy, the other ONF workers and or in the mountains (or roads connecting)
As this guy is a “key witness” and repeating most what the second ONF guys (two) have said…. I would be interested in his background.
Tweet her that.
Let me know what she fins out.
Morning BB & James.
I have invited her to join us here, maybe she will.
Here is her Twitter page……..I see a few comments there in relation to AH.
https://twitter.com/MeirionTweets
Due to the brevity of the word count on Twitter,long questions can’t be asked James.
Hopefully she will take a look in here & see your questions.
Where is the photofit the French promised, was it a bluff trying to panic the assassin, to make him careless ?
Question whats with all The White Widow talk in the media at the moment! 4 weeks ago she was seen in the Westgate Mall and a senior Government official let slip she was among the dead?…….what happened with all that? was she there and then escaped hence the Interpol warrant?
Also all this talk of her having false passports and getting around fairly easily reminds me of other cases where that person has turned out to be a secret service operative? her father was in the secret service himself, all seems very fishy and heading towards a final act involving teh White widow…………….wouldnt be surprised if something happend in the next few weeks!
Katie I dont think the photo fit will make him panic – a motorcyclist with a motor bike helmet and a small beard? how many bikers do you know that havent got a goatee????? hahahaha
Ricki.
I agree they couldn’t see much through a visor, but, if they ‘know’ or even ‘think’ they know who he is, a photofit could still work to force his next move………..I’ve seen it done on the tele. 😉
Just suppose they are watching this person & they have laid a trap of some sort ?
Maybe I’m crediting the French with too much skill ?
The white widow,yes, but maybe the influx of info is just because they are learning more each day.
Yup – I think you are Katie.
The crucial questions are:
a. if no one was in the lay-by and no one dead when the first Forestry man sees the motor cyclist, then he sees the BMW X 5 racing towards the scene at 3.20 why doesn’t he pass neither the victims or WBM; and
b. if as it appears they are suggesting, POST-KILLING, the motor-cyclist makes his way up the dog leg and meets head on the second Forestry crew of two, who interview him and escort him back down past the lay-by, why didn’t they discover the massacre that had taken place and WBM, who must by then have been on scene; and
c. why did neither WBM nor PD/B make any mention of the forestry department vehicles or guys that they must have seen; and
d. where did the BMW X 5 go and why wasn’t it witnessed by either WBM or the second Forestry two-man team as they escorted the motor cyclist down from the mountain road?
CORRECTION: “why does he pass neither the victims or WBM”
LATEST! MISSING PASSPORTS.
“French prosecutors said Thursday they had still not found the British passports of two victims of a brutal Alps murder last year, adding to the mystery surrounding the case.
Saad al-Hilli, a British-Iraqi man, was gunned down in September 2012 along with his wife and her mother in their parked car. His two daughters survived the gruesome attack in which more than 20 bullets were fired and a passing French cyclist was also killed.
“We never found the British passports of the Hilli couple. Investigators searched absolutely everywhere, on the bodies, in the family caravan, in the house in Claygate (in Britain),” said Eric Maillaud, a prosecutor in charge of the case in the eastern city of Annecy, in the Alps.
“Given the timing (of the killings), it’s not impossible that the killer took the two passports… but that would have been tight,” he told AFP.
Investigators also looked for the passports in police stations, lost-and-found offices and hotels along the route that the Hilli family took on their holiday from the northern French city of Calais to the Annecy lake.
“It only adds to the complexity of the investigation,” Maillaud said, adding that surprisingly, Saad al-Hilli had ID papers on him belonging to his late father.”
http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/french-news/passports-of-two-victims-in-french-alps-murder-missing-prosecutor_276933.html
SO THE OBVIOUS QUESTION: To whom did all those passports in the front driver’s foot-well relate? At least that is what we were told. Given that the police apparently had difficulty in identifying mother-in-law, they could not have all been of her presumably? Or were they? Then surely the children would be on the parent’s passport, so why did EM not include them in his statement? As usual the man appears to cloud the issue rather than clarify it, it seems to me.
Were there lots of passports in the car or not. If not of the occupants, then of whom?
Taken as proof the right people had been dispatched? If so how in such a short space of time with doors locked did they get hold of them? Just simple questions…
Tim V
Re your “crucial questions” above.
It’s because “just moments earlier” and “ten minutes later” aren’t moments earlier and ten minutes later.
The BBC’s Panorama say one thing, but show another.
The question is why ?
ONF1 drives down the mountain and at The Martinet pass the motorcyclist on his left “pulling into the car park” (so not “parked” in the car park…and maybe not even “pulling in”. That is the assumption of the ONF1)
Minutes later ONF1 passes the BMW X5, again on his left.
Then “ten minutes later” ONF2 (carrying two people) pass and speak to the motorcyclist who is parked at the “hairpins”, past The Martinet car park.
On Martin’s climb it is likely he is past by the Al Hilli family coming up the road….and then later by ONF2 coming down. Shortly followed by the motorcyclist, who it would appear didn’t want to catch up with the ONF2 vehicle ahead of him.
However the Panorama programme was so “confusing” non of this was covered.
But it would appear that Martin was only passed by one ONF vehicle coming down (so what about the other ONF vehicle….and the BMW X5 ?).
It is only left for the ONF1 employee (the only person to have seen the BMW X5) to say “the X5 must have escaped across country”.
I am not sure that there was an X5. I’m no longer sure who is telling the truth.
If someone said Al Hilli was killed in England a week before and transported to Chevaline….with all the “bull” going around, I’d even consider that likely (certainly more likely than a X5 spending an hour and a half on the Alpine mountains without ever being seen) !
Tim V
And then the “missing” passports.
Which I understood were “originally” found at the scene and which led to the identification of Saad Al Hilli ! Clearly now not the case !
http://news.sky.com/story/1159412/alps-murders-mystery-of-missing-uk-passports
Several things there Timbo.
One… all children now have to have their own passports & have had to for several years.
Secondly at the start we were told two passports had been found in the car, one of which was MIL.
Thirdly there would be plenty of ID for Saad,in the glove compartment,insurance,logbook,driving licence etc, plus he’d taken a lot of paperwork related to his work, so in the caravan there would also be enough to show who owned it.
Re: missing passports, I have no idea…….but as for the locked doors,I have said before that could be explained by child locks.
Saad & Zainab got out of the car leaving the doors open, once back in the car the doors are closed & the locks are automatically locked.
So no the killer could not have opened them.
Personally if I were staying at a camp site,[ which I never have] I’d leave PP at reception, to be placed in their safe, after checkin.
Of course if they really were going to the bank they would have been needed for ID.
http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster65/lob65-sis-espionage.pdf
Good link Ricki…..Mr X is known to be involved with the British Intelligence services,that link ties in perfectly.
With his global network nothing would be simpler for him to find a reliable & trusted hit man.
If Kadhim were also an SIS man,just imagine what was found in his safe when he died ….
I’ve just had a thought as to where the passports could be. Were we not told Saad ‘had’ been to Geneva but not to the bank ?
Could they possibly have been here at the Iraqi Mission:
Protocol and Liaison Service
Palais des Nations
1211 Geneva 10
Switzerland
http://www.unog.ch/unog/website/missions.nsf/(httpContacts_Pages)/3E735F66044CDC7CC125742D0046EC76?OpenDocument&expand=1
Could they have gone there to get the passports renewed, or pick up new ones >
How does duel nationality work could they keep & travel on just an Iraqi PP or would it have had to be wholly British after so long in the UK ?
Or could they have been there for another reason, protection ?
A visit like this would explain why they were dressed up, not for a faux meeting set up with Mollier or the killer/s but for an official meeting.
Permanent Missions
Permanent Mission of the Republic of Iraq to the United Nations Office and other international organizations in Geneva
Chief:
His Excellency Mr. Mohammad Sabir Ismail
Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary
Permanent Representative
Address:
Impasse Colombelle 8
1218 Grand-Saconnex
Tel: +41 22 918 09 80
Fax: +41 22 733 03 26
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://www.iraqimission.ch
http://www.unog.ch/unog/website/missions.nsf/(httpPermanentMissions_en)/CB1738FA70ED25C4C1256F4100451FA0?OpenDocument
Sorry I’m ‘doing a Tim’, but….what if we assume they DID visit the Mission for whatever reason & it would have been by appointment…………….. sooooo someone there could have had or known someone who had a reason to eliminate them, followed them to the quiet lay-by .
This would explain Zaid saying ‘powerful people in the area know.’
Swarthy drivers of car & MB.
How did he get back from Geneva to France without passports? it would have been easier if the man at the camp site that was witnessed arguing with Saad was an intelligence officer from the Iraqi mission in Geneva and took the passports on a promise to return them at the parking spot, I think to travel to the bank in Geneva also with new Iraqi passports to empty the money from the account and flee to Iraq via the mission in Geneva, it would have been a nice fuck you to his brother! But however we know that they where assassinated before that happened! I bet the leverage used by Saad was the images he had from
satellites!