The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
The best I can do is refer you to the links I left Friday evening regarding the mission, you will see the contact numbers there.Certainly an email address.
I assume the meeting was in the UN building.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Office_at_Geneva
Ricki
The conference was held at the UNO building in geneva on sept 19th 2012.
The interesting thing is that the iraqi participants arrived 20 days earlier that is august 31st.
Fits to mrs. Al allafs arrival.
Fits to the guy who met saad at the camping and who had a heated duscussion with him.
Bluebird, what do you think of the BBC production which you saw for the first time today, after I had linked to it.
You obviously live outside the UK — and as such is not able to access IPlayer — since you have not commented on it like Tim and Ricky has.
Indescribable amount of rubbish in the garden of Saad’s Claygate house [No it couldn’t have been the police who made the mess you see at 36.31 in the video, I linked to earlier].
Disturbing, indeed.
[transcribed by Kenneth Sorensen]
“French police investigating the massacre of a British man and his family in the Alps are furious at their UK counterparts for not allowing them to bug the prime suspect – the dead man’s brother.
The reluctance of the UK authorities to sanction the hacking of phone calls and other communication involving Zaid Al-Hilli, 54, has led to a rift which has compromised the inquiry.
Revelations about the dispute came as the French prosecutor co-ordinating the investigation, launched his most outspoken attack yet on Mr Al-Hilli, who denies any involvement.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477618/British-stopped-arresting-Alps-suspect-We-missed-chance-question-murder-victims-brother-say-French-detectives–YOUR-police-refused-let-tap-phone.html#ixzz2ivjUDRhZ
“None of the forces involved in the investigation – which include both Surrey and the Metropolitan Police – would discuss the bugging claims, or tensions between officers, because of ‘operational reasons’.
There were more claims about the Al-Hillis released by French prosecutors last week.
They said Saad Al-Hilli had a ‘heated’ argument with an unidentified person at the campsite where the family were staying the night before he was killed.
Next week, E-fit images of a motorcyclist and the driver of a BMW seen at the time of the killings will be released by the French. They are based on descriptions provided by local forestry workers.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477618/British-stopped-arresting-Alps-suspect-We-missed-chance-question-murder-victims-brother-say-French-detectives–YOUR-police-refused-let-tap-phone.html#ixzz2ivkM0xF9
It could be the masterminds in Tel Aviv — who was monitoring the brothers communications all along — who stepped in exactly at the right time, i.e. after Saad had called the bank on Monday afternoon, because they literally have script-writers, sociologists, ethnologists, anthropologists and psychologists on their team. Remember they reside in a country which consider itself to be at war.
So they stepped in at a time when the blame could easily be placed on the brother, and the whole thing be blamed on an inheritance struggle. And just maybe Zaid is not clever enough to see through it. But if I talked to Zaid I would put this suggestion to him. Maybe the British authorities — who knows this an that from their own monitoring — was seing through this, and therefore reluctant to put Zaid to trial last year, when the French send the relevant [inheritancestruggle-related] material to Britain, remember it was first in June this year that Zaid was summoned and acqitted on bail.
Good references Bleb
27 Oct, 2013 – 1:04 am and I agree with the thrust of your argument. However you missed from your quote from me an important little addendum:
“So clearly there WAS prima face evidence OR HE WAS ARRESTED FOR SOME OTHER REASON.” My observation was a bit “tongue in cheek” meaning that “On suspicion of conspiracy to murder” in theory would require some evidence to support it. In fact as I suggested at the time, this procedure might equally have been a ruse to in fact PROTECT ZAH on the British side specifically from the threat of a EAW. I am not sure but assume the only defence to one of these would be proceedings in the home country. This is not merely supposition as actively preventing French investigators getting to him for more than six months and even then only indirectly and his armed guard, directly supports the contention that he has got top level support on the British side. Similarly ZAD’s interview was clearly orchestrated and approved when he said he didn’t trust the French; that he wouldn’t go there for fear of being shot himself(despite his property and many holiday visits);that it was ridiculous to think his brother would go all that was for a clandestine meeting; and that the target was actually SM by a local family for a domestic reason. The fact that he is subject to Police Bail would I guess, have ruled out his interview without police approval. This was a British Government mouthpiece for whatever reason. Despite all this I take your important point about the the widespread misuse of the police bail process which circumvents whatever other protections of the citizen that still exist.
I’ve said exactly that, but not about the Israelis , what possible motive or interest could they have in Saad , because he’s anti Zionists ?
Not only do the Jews has all these people on their team,- they also no the Kain Able story by heart,- becayuse they wrote it themselves [in a cave somewhere near the Dead sea a couple of thousand years ago] so they no the potential in such a brotherly struggle story.
Not only do the Jews [in Israel] have all these people on their team,- they also know the Cain & Abel story by heart,- because they wrote it themselves [in a cave somewhere near the Dead sea a couple of thousand years ago] so they no the potential in such a brotherly struggle story.
Not only do the Jews [in Israel] have all these people on their team,- they also know the Cain & Abel story by heart,- because they wrote it themselves [in a cave somewhere near the Dead sea a couple of thousand years ago] so they know the potential in such a brotherly struggle story.
Sorenson, so good he said it thrice !
That is the daftest motive I’ve ever heard……….do you think only Jews know about Cain & Able ?
Spot on BB Bluebird
27 Oct, 2013 – 7:28 am: “For sure there must have been a pre planned event in geneve for what iqbal did need her mother with legitimation and saad would need his father’s papers for legitimation.”
I am sure you have hit on something here. Iqbal’s mother (passport found), Saad’s father (passport found). No passports for parents or children!!! This must be strong circumstantial evidence of needing to prove family descent from an earlier generation active shall we say in the post war period.
Was this important to the rendezvous in the mountain or for legal purposes in Geneva either to lay claim to the alleged deposit or to sort passports and what PPs were shown as they got on the ferry which would identify specifically the nature of the passports that have disappeared? We don’t know but the police should have been able to suss this by now.
It was stated the PP that were found were in the floor well. This has always puzzled me. Is that the normal place to keep important documents. Throwing ones a person DIDN’T want back in the car might be a more likely scenario don’t you think?
Now the PP that were found have to be important for DNA and finger prints as any rooky cop would realise. But here we are told the car wasn’t even opened until the TOP EXPERTS arrived, so we can assume they were only checked with gloved hands and then immediately bagged and later subjected to tests.
Now how can it be that they revealed NOTHING – not even SAH’s DNA from sweat or even microscopic blood splatter? That is surely impossible?
Then we have the strange confluence of that early report that SM was seeking British nationality!!! Haven’t seen any confirmation since. So many passport/nationality issues in one place at one time!
Bluebird
27 Oct, 2013 – 8:37 am you never cease to amaze. Where did you find this one and how have we overlooked it so far? Was it the reason went (sent) to the area? I imagine British SIS would want in on it to keep tabs on current developments. It could be an explanation for sudden departure and proposed visit to Geneva. Also contacts in reverse – the argument in the caravan park the night before? the frequent trips off site? Unidentified visitors? – did they come from one or other of the Iraqi delegations?
Meanwhile the killing continues: fifty dead many injured ten car bombs of mainly Shia areas Baghdad!
Ref that DM article at
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477618/British-stopped-arresting-Alps-suspect-We-missed-chance-question-murder-victims-brother-say-French-detectives–YOUR-police-refused-let-tap-phone.html#ixzz2ivjUDRhZ
it is perhaps worth noting that contrary to earlier practice, they have stopped taking comments “for legal reasons”. So what new legal reasons have appeared?
Whatever else has happened, it is now clear that the two sides are adopting positions along nationalistic lines. Also another evidence that SAH is “Our Man in Geneva” (apologies to Graham Green): blocking telephone tap although in the light of Snowden this is simply hilarious.
Katie said at 2:06 pm:
[My comments in italics]
Who then to you surmise could have monitored his communications and set up the meeting?
Kenneth Sorensen
27 Oct, 2013 – 3:43 pm
‘French police investigating the massacre of a British man and his family in the Alps are furious at their UK counterparts for >>> not<<< allowing them to bug the prime suspect"
From that I'd say there was no bugging for this enquiry.
As for setting up the meeting, why did the arrangements have to clandestine , it could have been a reunion as far as Saad was concerned,but he was duped.
Ah, Yes I see what you are getting at, no, this is what I was meaning.
“So they stepped in at a time when the blame could easily be placed on the brother, and the whole thing be blamed on an inheritance struggle. And just maybe Zaid is not clever enough to see through it. ‘
No, I asked: Who else apart from the Israelis would have the deviousness of arranging af meeting in the Martinet, just at a time when they had intercepted Saad’s conversation about him going to Geneva? If you give me: “The Americans” – I will of course counter, that the Americans are in the anti-terrorist business to a large extent thanks to the Israelis.
For those interested in the issue of Israel/Palestine as the engine of Middle Eastern instability, this web site is a must. The comparative tables, putting the inequalities into perspective, are invaluable.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
It includes the figures of 27,000 Palestinian houses DEMOLISHED since 1967 and 260 Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian owned land! The figures of killed and injured in respect of Israelis and Palestinians since 29th Sept 2000 are respectively: 1,104 and 9,104; and at least 6,836 and 50,742.
BBC Panorama
My impression
1. Look at the still picture at 23:13
You can see Saad’s right hand.
It definitely looks as if he held the Luger in his hand (kind of defending himself) while the killer shot at him.
If that was the case, then Saad must have been standing very close next or opposite of the killer, probably even talking to or negotiating with the killer before the killer suddenly took his gun in order to shoot or to threaten Saad (e.g.”give me or …”).
That opposes the official statements.
2. No mentioning of Bossy/Didierjean. They suddenly dont exist any more.
3. My strong impression is that Eric is lying.
4. My strong impression is that ZAH is lying
5. My strong impression is that WBM doesnt tell the truth.
What was missing:
No mentioning of what Kadhim did do in the UK and about how he could feed his family.
No mentioning of Kadhim’s brother Hashim who was Iraq’s UNO representative in New York.
No mentioning regarding Mrs. al Allafs history and Iqbal’s family.
They are still trying to describe the al Hillis as an ordinary family next door. Like the Bush’s, the Obama’s, the Windsor’s and the Romanov’s are ordinary families next door ….
There are no doubts whatsover left that there is an international cover up regarding that assassination.
http://www.iraqinews.com/features/iraqi-human-rights-denies-reports-over-failure-of-geneva-conference/
http://en.aswataliraq.info/(S(upxhvyuq4d1zz3e5di42wf45))/Default1.aspx?page=article_page&id=150618
Human Rights Ministry denies failure of Geneva Conference, statement 9/23/2012 2:20 PM Human Rights Ministry denies failure of Geneva Conference, statementBAGHDAD/ Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi Human Rights Ministry denied today the news stating the failure of its conference in Geneva, Switzerland, to acquaint the international community of the crimes of the ex-regime.The conference was held last Wednesday, 19 September, 2012, according to ministerial statement.The statement added that media organ reported the failure of the conference when some Iraqis entered the conference room and made a sort of chaos that forced Swiss police and security to end the conference.The statement denied this news and stated the deliberations of the conference which was attended by a number of senior Iraqi officials and foreigners.It expressed readiness to broadcast the deliberations of the conference to counter such claims.
One Response to Iraqi Human Rights denies reports over failure of Geneva Conference
http://www.iraqinews.com/features/iraqi-human-rights-denies-reports-over-failure-of-geneva-conference/#ixzz2ixh3Xch3
Jean Dupont September 28, 2012 at 7:35 pmIt was a total failure, otherwise:1-Can the Ministry name two countries that attended the conference??2-Can the Ministry name more than 2 NGOs which attended the conference?3- Can the Ministry name more than 3 journalists who participated in the press conference?4- can the Ministry name 3 non-Iraqi who attended their INTERNATIONAL conference???Those who attended the conference are the delegations which came from Baghdad, and Kurdistan with their friends and relatives, few Iraqi (Kurds and Arab)from Switzerland…
bluebird
The scene at 23:13 in Panorama was a reconstruction filmed specifically for the programme.
SAH might or might not have burns or other defensive wounds to his hand, but the details shown in the reconstruction are likely a product of artistic licence.
I am sure you have struck oil with that “international conference” that never was BB. Clever you/ But why has it taken more than a year for us to stumble on it? Amazing. I previously mentioned the importance of Geneva to east/west north/south and SH’s brother stationed there for a decade from ’89 but a vitriolic Iraqi conference on the doorstep at just the time of the murders? The coincidence is just too great. It’s also been completely ignored from the press record as far as I am aware which is further confirmation its implicated in my book. We have always considered the possibility of the elements of the old Sunni regime (someone is behind ten car bombs and fifty deaths only a day ago) but I am convinced the reaction of both French and British would have been quite different if it had been. (Of course its possible that it is CIA/Mossad behind bombing campaign for a lot of reasons. We have already seen how British government attempts were thwarted by America 2003 onwards and the Al Hilli closeness to Allawi in Jordon) So we have delegates arriving at the same time as the Al Hillis. Probable contacts established being monitored by French and probably other SIS’s. Arrangement made to meet up in remote forest location. Assassination by all the parties. Was SM’s role the go-between to get stuff from SAH to to delegation member without obvious contact? Agency (CIA/Mossad with French complicity?) determined to prevent it but instruction to leave WBM? Now BB we need to know the specifics of the attendees at that conference please.
Now BB as regards the Panorama film don’t you see a suspicious anomaly in a FRENCH witness/French government employee being interviewed anonymously by a British TV programme? Remember EM has kept the Forestry people completely out of it, so was it done with his approval? obviously not. Yet it wouldn’t be difficult for him to identify who it was as only three involved. Very embarrassing for EM into the bargain forcing him to admit photo fit and not issuing it. Then the story just won’t fit the facts. What’s this all about?
The only way it could fit would be if the Forestry guys were actually the assassins. Is that what British Intelligence through Panorama is hinting at?????????? “No operation without back-up.” Was the RHD BMW X 5 British back-up but just a few minutes too late? Was that interviewed “French Forestry” guy actually supplied by Britain to seed a “fucku” story implicating the motorbike and green truck operators, who it has to be said was the original version of WBM’s MI6 approved statement at the very beginning?
All coming together I’m sure. Nothing more likely that if you wanted a kill job in the forest the best cover would be forestry trucks after all.
The plot thickens
By the process of elimination, its clear that only Israel has the means as well as the motive (from their point of view ‘existential’ – as they consider them self at war, But please see through this rubbish) to set this plot in motion. The Americans — who are in this anti-terrorist business mainly through the acquaintance with Israel — simply wouldn’t dare the risk if such a plot was exposed, as we are now doing.
We know from the Polonium-case, that Israel likes to be first with the latest, and Sherlock Holmes would tell you that it is also the most clever thing to do, – in order to go undetected. But as in the Polonium case the whole card house come tumbling down, as soon as other copies the procedure, like the Russians did in 2006 in the assassination of Litvinenko.
strong>Thanks to the material Snowden provided — and Greenwald and Poitras selection of it — we know that Israel has a direct line to all of NSA’s metadata, and they can do with it pretty much what it likes, as their efforts are jointly considered [with that of the NSA’s own] as being mutual beneficial. Therefore Israel is able to follow any conversation on any phone, and any email – including the exchanges Saad made to his best friend. So they knew when Saad called his bank in Geneva on Monday afternoon [saying he would pop in in a few days time]. And they knew that this was the right time to proceed with his elimination – using the highly trained Serb (or wherever he was from) on a motorbike — because the suspicion would then focus on the brother and the inheritance struggle.
Generally the Israelis are, intelligence and security wise speaking, ‘in bed’ with the French – this stems back to the days when Shimon Peres in the 50’ies set up his own office () in the Interior ministry in Paris, and laid the foundation of the joint Israeli-French development of nuclear weapons. In this hugely centralised country, in the center of the spiders web, i.e. on Quai d’Orsey, their is a huge gratitude towards Israel.
And the relations back and forth between the Israelis the British are due to conflicting interests which stems back to the mandate of Palestine, very much antagonistic, but the British are pragmatic and always see to diplomatically, not to make a big deal out of it, but turn a blind eye to what Israel is doing. On the other hand they refuse to write Israel a blanc check on every issue, and for example refused to partake in recent Israeli schemes to remove yet another foe of Israel, Assad in Syria. In the same way hey refused to sentence an innocent man, Zaid, for the murder in the Alps, just because the Israelis and the French wanted it, but managed to ‘water out’ the affair, by waiting 6 months and then get him released on bail.
——
The thing we need to focus on now, is what did Saad have on his computers that Israel saw — and British intelligence also know about. It could well be something related to Syria, as this conflict became international just at the same time as the killings of the family, and the fate of Syria would be something that the al Hilli family felt passionately for, having seen what happened to their native Iraq, due to the same sort of schemes set up by Israel (and its lobby).
Kenneth Sorensen
28 Oct, 2013 – 6:40 am
“something that the al Hilli family felt passionately for”…… Exactly.
Over the years the bitterness of having to flee, leave their roots & great wealth behind, would take it’s toll.
Saad found out just how much was lost/stolen when his father died, it was all there in the fathers papers…..hence his apparent change in character, he was going to reek revenge for that.
There was no need for the brothers to fight over the Claygate house because even now there’s enough for Zaid to inherit without the sale of the house…..did they argue because Zaid would not lend support to Saad’s plan ?
This crime was due to to an old feud involving Iraq.
Saad found out about the conference hence the haste to get to France,it was he who contacted someone who was attending, for a reunion &/or information & arranged a meeting ?
That’s how the chap at the campsite knew he was in France……it was said that Saad ‘knew’ the man.
Saad would also know or know of many attendees. He had also told his cousin he wanted to go & live in Iraq.
Unfortunately for him he also knew who had stolen from the Saddam coffers,who to this day is still selling arms to Iraq [?] an Iraqi who had set themselves up as highly respected citizens in the UK, feted by all.
Someone who has long standing influential French contacts.
What better time to assassinate this trouble maker Saad [ Shia] when there were hundreds of other [Sunni] Iraqis only 30 miles away ?
That there was someone who could pay large sums to a couple of them to do the dirty deed & disappear ? [dark & swarthy]
I still maintain that this is not a state sponsored crime,no way,a family like that & with such an old weapon ? ………..I believe that the state/s are only involved in the cover up not the killing.
The very omission, in the media, of this Iraqi conference speaks volumes.
Now who has the power to gag police & governments ?
The other big question, why would they want to, who do they want to protect ?