The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Bluebird
6 Nov, 2013 – 8:11 pm
“Villager
What connection with kercher/knox do you mean except that she came from a surrey village nearby? I dont see any connections at all.”
At an overarching, pervasive level, one connection is compassion. Another is whodunit? Which is why i asked ‘btw’.
__________
“Did al hilli see the nuclear warhead transport into saudi arabia with his satellite mapping/edging?”
A rather ridiculous question/suggestion, if i may say so. What size are the warheads themselves? How are they packaged, including for safe transportation? Naive to assume that Pakistan and Saudi are dummies. A more realistic observation would be that they are two of the most cunning countries/governments/militaries/secret services on the planet and behind the real (government-sposored) terrorists in the world. The Bombay-massacre and the fact that most of the 911 hijackers were Saudi nationals are easy recalls.
Bleb
6 Nov, 2013 – 11:55 pm
“Tim re your 6 Nov, 2013 – 8:53 pm post.
You need to dip into just about any of Craig’s other threads to understand.
The clue is that the 6 Nov, 2013 – 6:21 pm post has now been moderated (read the reason!). Think what our pilot friend is to you.
Sorry if that is a bit cryptic, but I hope you get it.”
I must confess, a bit too cryptic for me Bleb. Perhaps you can be more forthright and transparent?
In addition:
“Bleb
7 Nov, 2013 – 12:13 am
Tim – here is a good place to dip in:”
A good place for what Bleb? What is it, of particular interest, you detected there at the comment linked? And what makes it a “good place to dip in”?
Elsewhere:
“Anyway glad you got the picture.”
Again, am very keen to see through your eyes “the picture” you are painting.
Thanks in advance!
Tim V
6 Nov, 2013 – 8:53 pm
“Good to see a new “face” pop up Villager
6 Nov, 2013 – 6:21 pm. Care to say if you have previously contributed under a different name or just been following the thread “from a distance”? I also (as well as BB) would be interested to know why you have introduced the Kercher point at this late stage. Did Arafat polonium prompt it or something else. Are you suggesting a connection to it or Chevaline?”
Hi there Tim V and good to engage with you too! Yes it was the Arafat polonium breaking news that prompted my remark. As innocent as that.
As for the ‘insult’, it was more of a preemptive warning, lest this thread be attacked by a certain all-too-regular contributor who typically manages 5 newsfeed cut-n-paste ‘posts’ (usually with little comment) by breakfast and then an average of an hourly repeat of more of the same. Further, they tend to start on page 1 of the ‘comments’, following a new
entry by CM, itself. You are at page 92 here so God knows what you might expect after almost all threads, save this and the Anna Ardin threads have been muzzled.
Also don’t be too swayed by the picture that Bleb was trying to paint, whatever that is, re trolls etc. Suggest be your own person and observe rather than rush to judgement. There’s a lot of bigotry amongst some of the ‘Murrayistas’ that Craig would not approve of. Dip in here to get the picture (or simply google ‘ziofuckwits’ with safe search off):
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?hl=en&tab=nw&gws_rd=cr&ei=6lx9UqToNOrH0QWN0oGYDQ#hl=en&q=ziofuckwits&safe=off
Thats the sort of thing has passed for moderation here. Anyhow, CM is apparently not well and hasn’t been for some time. Lets send him our collective good wishes for healing. And lets not get too excited about imaginary ‘trolls’, wouldn’t you agree?
Villager
I know what you mean since due to your input i was looking the BBC Panorama documentary of Knox/Kercher on youtube. Pretty well done in the same way as the chevaline panorama. Interesting crime and even more so an interesting kind of investigation but of course not related.
However, i was stuck by the last sentence in that panorama report of knox/kercher. I am trying to quote it but using my own words because i didnt learn this by heart:
“This is that sort of crime that has shocked millions, it created the attention of millions, it had made millions (of people) talking and thinking about it, with hundreds of theories at stake. This is a crime that will most likely never get solved but it is a crime that we shall most likely still discuss in 10 years.”
That’s probably the relation of the two crimes:
Lots of attention, thousands of theories, truth will never come out, but discussions will never end.
I think there is a possibility that this thread might get closed to new comments.
See:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/10/edward-snowden-gets-sam-adams-award/comment-page-17/#comment-436922
Perhaps time to consider where free discussion of Chevaline could continue if that happened.
Despite all the “lizard baggage”, lack of general credibility etc, etc I would suggest the David Icke thread (but only if this thread is closed):
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221659&page=91
Anyone have any other ideas? Bear in mind that some regular posters on here are not welcome at MZT.
Bleb
It would be sad if that threat would be closed, however, not surprising.
The https/ssl of this site hasnt been renewed (paid) since quite some time and creates an error message (warning). It woupd be a pity for truth if that happens but nobody would be to blame for. In contrary, we must be grateful and thankful that it had been open for such a long time for new contributions.
Bleb
Whenever i had thought that this topic is dead there came new events and new suspects into that topic that re created life.
Who am i to make suggestions? It would be impolite making suggestions.
So then, if that site continues to exist and there are still other open topics, why not open a new topic that more generalizes that topic (as it is done by many here).
Maybe a topic just like “conspiracies of intelligence services regarding the Middle East”
When closing this threat then in jon’s last message there could be a link to that new topic, could it?
We once had closed the first al hilli topic and continued with a second one. Why not closing the second now and continue with a third one that suggests to contribute into a broader and more universal topic? Of course that is useful only if that website is going to continue to exist.
My personal view: in that topic there are hrdly any trolls. That is why i enjoy contributing here. As soon as the aliens fans and numerology trolls would appear to take this topic over, i will be off (thats why i am pretty reluctant to use icke). Thanks to jon for rigorously cleaning those troll messages and spams.
I am wishing craig all the best for recovery.
All:
This could be of interest for contingency planning:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/why-i-am-convinced-that-anna-ardin-is-a-liar/comment-page-9/#comment-436970
Bluebird @ 10h46
Well summarised.
Bluebird @ 10h46
Sorry for my typo. I wanted to write THREAD (=blog topic) but mistyped as “threat”.
Sorry for that.
Its ok Bluebird, Freudian slips happen here all the time 🙂
Interesting, we both got our timelines in a twist. I had meant 22h46 but i suppose i could say much the same thing for 10h42.
Villager
8 Nov, 2013 – 8:55 pm
“Did al hilli see the nuclear warhead transport into saudi arabia with his satellite mapping/edging?”
It maybe a silly question, but it could apply to AH seeing/having proof of Iraq moving WMD to Syria.
Please ignore one of the trolls who has moved here from the main thread of this blog now sadly closed due to the activities of the trolls.
Is that so Mary,I did wonder why he was trying to divert us to other posts.
Katie
Modern Satellites can trace and track all nuclear warheads. You cannot cover them not even with Pb. No way.
The edging technology is far advanced today. Those who are having access to such satellite data do know exactly about when and where nuclear warheads are being moved.
http://www.rense.com/general16/nucla.htm
The Surrey Police Commissioner holds ‘summits’. We could always turn up here and lob a few pertinent questions as to progress in the investigation!
http://www.surrey-pcc.gov.uk/2013/11/kevin-hurley-invites-guildford-residents-to-crime-summit/
Hurley is ex Met CID, TA and has served in Iraq.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Hurley
Morning BB.
I didn’t mean Nuclear I meant chemical weapons. If AH had positive proof of those being transported out of Iraq it would ruffle a few feathers,wouldn’t it ?
Mary
10 Nov, 2013 – 8:15 am
Mary, oh the irony, a good idea but did you notice on the invite that ‘comments were off’ . No questions allowed on that article, I wonder if that is a portent of things to come !
French hold up talks with Iran over nukes! France have always had a close relationship with Israel and May have taken Israel’s side during talks, France helped the Israelis finish their own undercover nuclear site in the Negev desert in Dimona!
Ricki Tart
10 Nov, 2013 – 10:31 am – Amazing! I popped in to make the same point. First of course the talks are taking place in GENEVA. Well no surprise there then. Second it is FRANCE that is taking a hard line against Iran. The received opinion seems to be this is because they wish to humour the Israelis and particularly the Gulf States. This has a direct bearing on how they have ballsed up the Chevaline investigation I’m sure. So we have a Geneva Iraq conference under the aegis of the UN that breaks up in chaos, unreported and no one knows anything about it apparently, for which delegates arrive at the same time as the Al Hillis. Then we have an international conference one year after focusing on Iranian nuclear capability, at which France takes a hard line. Of course at no time, in no place, is anyone discussing Israel’s nuclear capability, or Saudi’s either for that matter, now in receipt of nuclear warheads apparently!
Good idea Mary
10 Nov, 2013 – 8:15 am. Let us know how you get on lol.
“Foreign ministers from four of the five permanent U.N. Security Council members – Britain, France, Russia and the United States – and Germany took part in Saturday’s talks. China, also a permanent member, sent a deputy foreign minister, who arrived on Saturday evening.
Barring a last-minute breakthrough, talks between Iran and six world powers on curbing Tehran’s nuclear ambitions were set to end without a full agreement on Saturday as a split emerged between France and the other Western powers, diplomats said.
French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius also said it was not clear the delegations would succeed in nailing down an acceptable interim deal that would begin to defuse fears of a stealthy Iranian advance towards nuclear arms capability.
“As I speak to you, I cannot say there is any certainty that we can conclude,” Fabius told France Inter radio, saying Paris could not accept a “fool’s game”.
His pointed remarks hinted at a rift within the Western camp. A Western diplomat close to the negotiations said the French were trying to upstage the other powers.
“The Americans, the EU and the Iranians have been working intensively together for months on this proposal, and this is nothing more than an attempt by Fabius to insert himself into relevance late in the negotiations,” the diplomat told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.
In a further sign that the cordiality that reigned in the first round of talks last month and earlier this week was dissipating, Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Abbas Araqchi told Mehr news agency that his counterparts from the six powers “need constant coordination and consultation in order to determine (their) stances”.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/09/us-iran-nuclear-idUSBRE9A804X20131109
GEO-ENGINEERING
A big issue.
http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2013/09/17/live-updated-presentation-the-most-important-topic-of-our-time-geoengineering-chemtrails-2/
I was also thinking where their passports at Iran’s consulate?
Sorry don’t know why my name was Ricki Tart must have been feeling freaky!
The stranglehold Israel has on the mighty US of A is again apparent. Does this reflect public opinion there or world-wide? I doubt it. Yet the whole middle east process is skewed by a few million Israeli’s, dead set against anything other than their own dominance and hegemony. How come? Well having made the fatal mistake of pandering to its propaganda and image of being the poor threatened outpost of “western democratic values” it has pursued a blatant and unrestrained policy of militarism, illegal invasion, theft, murder and apartheid for which it shows no shame or apology. Now as a nuclear power it threaten to bomb Iran and so plunge the area into further chaos, into which the world would be sucked. Isn’t it time the world told Israel enough is enough?
“In a bid to contain the danger, the lead US negotiator, Wendy Sherman, flew straight from the talks in Geneva to Israel to reassure Binyamin Netanyahu’s government that the intended deal would not harm his country’s national interests.
The hastily arranged trip represented an acknowledgement of Netanyahu’s power to block a deal through his influence in the US Congress and in Europe. Egged on by the Israelis, the US Senate is poised to pass new sanctions that threaten to derail the talks before they get to their planned next round in 10 days’ time.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/10/iran-nuclear-talks-at-risk?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
“”For us, red lines are not to be crossed. The rights of the Iranian nation and [our] national interests are our red lines,” he said. Without directly referring to France, Rouhani added: “The Islamic Republic of Iran has not bowed and will not bow to threats by any power.”
In reaction to the Geneva talks, the Twitter account believed to be run by the office of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei posted old remarks Iran’s supreme leader made about France in a speech in March.
“French officials have been openly hostile towards the Iranian nation over the past few years; this is an imprudent and inept move,” the tweet says. “A wise man, particularly a wise politician, should never have the motivation to turn a neutral entity into an enemy.” That speech in the eastern city of Mashhad, east Iran, was the first time Khamenei referred to France as Iran’s enemy along with the US and Britain.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/10/iran-anger-france-geneva-nuclear-deal
“Saudi Arabia’s intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan is joining Israel to set the stage for a military strike against Iran over the country’s nuclear program, an analyst says.
Not reaching a nuclear deal during the recent Geneva talks reflects “the determination on the part of the Israelis and the Saudis, not only to prevent such an agreement, but it takes even military action against Iran in order to completely destroy it”, Ralph Schoenman told Press TV on Sunday.
“Saudi intelligence chief Prince Bandar Bin Sultan has told European diplomats that his government was even considering a major shift away its alliance with Washington joining with Israel and preparing for attacks upon Iran”, he added.
The Saudi official said last month that his country would make a “major shift” in its relations with Washington after the White House decided not to attack Syria and enter nuclear talks with Iran.
Prince Bandar bin Sultan invited a Western diplomat to the Saudi Red Sea city of Jeddah to voice his frustration with the US administration and its policies in the Middle East, according to media reports.”
http://www.eutimes.net/2013/11/saudi-spy-chief-joining-israel-for-attack-against-iran/
True or False. Maybe a spoof?
If so a virtual blackout in the west on news media.
“A sobering report prepared by the Ministry of Defense (MOD) circulating in the Kremlin today states that the 4 NATO F-16 fighter jets scrambled from Turkey hours ago to harass the Il-20 reconnaissance warplanes flying along Russia’s Black Sea coast on one their routine daily missions was in direct retaliation over President Putin’s abrupt canceling of his cooperation with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization over missile defense yesterday.
This MOD report further states that Putin’s “move for peace” against the US led NATO alliance is meant to show the West that he will “retaliate in force” against what he calls US President Obama’s “insane” plan for global tyranny that is even now threatening to destroy America and the European Union.
Even more grimly, this report continues, was Putin’s ordering the strategic forces to carry out a large-scale surprise military drill last Wednesday launching four nuclear missiles that were closely monitored by US intelligence agencies that included the test launch of two land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) and two submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs).
In Putin’s further “preparation for war,” this MOD report says, he also ordered this past Friday that the two Tupolev Tu-160 Blackjack strategic nuclear bombers currently visiting South America to stay on indefinite patrol should they be needed to strike the United States.
Not just Putin is gravely concerned over Obama’s war moves either, this report continues, as China this past week joined Russia in overtly threatening the United States with nuclear retaliation.”
http://www.eutimes.net/2013/11/putin-ends-nato-missile-pact-warns-military-to-prepare-for-war/
The Middle East is now even more than ever a unexploded bomb.
France has become israel’s puppet in the geneva iran talks.
Quite obviously france received orders from israel and saudi arabia.
Uk, usa, russia china and germany were ready to sign an agreement with iran. France used its veto to finish that conference without any results.
France’s interesting twist in geneva might support a theory that france did assist israel or their zionist interest in the chevaline killings. Perhaps the french had even done israel’s ” job”.
Today there was the iranian industrial minister killed in teheran in a mossad style execution. His name was Abadi.
I rememver the BBC panorama when they did interview one of saads iranian friends. Wasnt his name Abadi, too? Maybe i remember wrongly but i dont want to look at youtube again for 1 hour. But if his name was Abadi and if he were a relative of the now killed iranian minister …. well, would that be a possible link then? But so far i am not 100% sure if saad’s friend’s name was Abadi. Does anybody remember?
Safdar Rachmat Abadi was shot in his own car today. One shot into his chest, two shots into his head. Well, one into his chest and two into his head in his private car. Sounds common, doesnt it?
Iranians say that this wasnt political and had nothing todo with his job but it had to do with some of his other business he had done privately with some obscure organisations.